I seem ok so maybe it's time to leave?

Day 2 after my session where T. discussed referring me again. The last time we had this discussion was in May after I told her I felt trapped - painful therapy yet wanting to see her and then we got in a disagreement about spacing. This time she didn't like my reaction to something that eventually led to feelings about wishing I had a mom right now. The end result was what I thought would be the therapy but she focused on the fact that the transference was causing me to question her and not trust.

I have a session in 2 weeks, then 3 weeks from that and then another 2 weeks ending late September. She even asked me what I would want in a T. to which I replied a mom and it's not possible. I haven't even cried. I think the entire year I have questioned whether we are a good fit. I kept thinking the transference was what was making it bad but maybe it's just our personalities. She's a great person but she's like my mom in many ways - direct, tough, etc.

Yesterday I put away all my therapy books, deleted notes off my phone and it felt good. I felt in control. I plan to send her a text next Friday that I'm cancelling my Monday session. Then, 3 weeks later I plan to do the same and only go to the last session. I don't want to tell her my plans in case something comes up and I need those sessions. But, how awesome would it be to go to the last one with the realization I don't need therapy? My marriage is fine, work is fine, relationships are fine. Could they improve? Sure but we all have issues we can work on. I think my therapy focusing on my mom kept my mom issues "alive". I would realize what T. couldn't give me, realize what mom didn't give me and then wish someone would give it to me now. I would want to cry in front of her or her to see my pain, so I would keep those emotions going until my session instead of letting them go. I need to accept that it's not going to happen and that will be the key to healing. I'm not sure I need therapy to do that.

So, at the end I hope to be able to decide whether to take a more permanent break from therapy or go to someone else. Maybe my transference will be gone, maybe I'll have some insight. Do I miss her? yes. And, there's a little self blame going on. But, I also know I can be ok without her. I want to know that I can leave her on my own in a healthy way before she decides to abandon me. I have felt out of control this past year so I feel more empowered now.

So, I may post on here some but, as I mentioned before, I'm going to try to be on here less, think about therapy less and just live life.

From what you've shared, this therapist doesn't seem willing or able to help you work through your issues/grief over no mothering. If all she does is trigger those issues, without helping you, then it does seem like a healthier option to put some distance between you.

Only you can decide how the lack of a mother impacts your quality of life. It might be worth talking to another therapist about it, either one who isn't so much like your mother or one who can handle and work through your transference without trying to be the mother you lacked; in other words, someone who can help you help yourself rather than try to fulfill those needs.

Whatever you decide, I do think this therapist has done you a favor by not trying to do something she can't and then end up causing you more problems through rejection.

I struggle with completely ending therapy. I don't want to permanently walk away from T. That thought terrifies me. I feel like even if I ended things on good terms, I will still feel abandoned.

I think you get to a point where you realize it's not working anymore. She will always hold a special place in my heart and I will grieve, but I think right now her personality is negatively affecting me.

It’s all about your quality of life. If therapy is the ONLY painful part, I don’t see a point in continuing a never-ending pattern of pain. There are always going to be things to work on, and more certain than that, there will always be people standing by willing to take your money to ‘help’. Just because you take a break now, doesn’t mean you can’t go back later… even with the same person should the relationship end amicably.

In my experience, switching T’s just hits the re-set button, and inevitably you’ll be back in the same attached, dependent state. Therapy encourages it, and certain personality types are more susceptible to entrapment. I had a similar relationship with my T, but we’re going through a rupture now, and I don’t feel connected to her at all. Whereas before, I would feel a maternal longing between sessions, all I feel now is anger and resentment. I’m considering quitting soon, while I can. But there’s a part of me that really misses the nurturing, loving sessions, so it’s not an easy choice. If a referral is in your future, I see why leaving on your own seems the more empowering action.

I don't have transference issues with my T and he is DBT trained so it tends to be very pragmatic (this is my disclaimer LOL).

For me, it's based on season. When things have been so hard I could barely cope, I've gone up to two sessions a week. When things are relatively okay, I've popped in once every few months to just do a self-check (my depression is a chronic condition so it's unlikely I'll ever be entirely free of therapy). Right now, with a treatment working and doing well, once I'm fully stabilized, I see myself dropping eventually back to that every few months place maybe by next spring.

Idk. I think of him like I think of my doctor. Someone to have around to help me manage my mental health. If he didn't do a good job, I'd replace him, but he's served me well for the last six years and I've grown fond of him

I hope I can get to the point where I realize things are no longer productive, and I can move on without going into crisis mode.

I am afraid to move on, yet I know there is not anything else he can do to help me. I will grieve, it will be painful, I will still feel sad and hopeless ,but I will go on because I must. He saw me crumble last week and allowed me to leave in a fragile state and has not even checked on me. He is like anyone else working for a living and I pay for his services that are really not helping.

Attachment is a vital human need, whereas dependency has pathological connotations (to paraphrase something I read). Seems attachment in therapy could be a good thing, if it is a means to and end and not a repeating pattern or trap as you point out.

But how often does this sort of attachment progress to a resolution and the client becoming more autonomous?

Here is one view:
"Ferenczi [famous psychoanalyst] said that the analyst infantilizes patients. Far from helping them overcome infantile problems, the analyst resubmerges them in an infantile relationship in which it is the analyst who emerges as all-powerful".

I think you should take it one day at a time. See how you feel as time passes. Not necessarily saying, oh I will cancel in 2 weeks, etc. wait until the time comes, then cancel. Or not, based on how you are feeling then.

Give yourself some flexibility. You may change your mind. Or not.

You don't have to decide what you are going to do then NOW.

It's fine to think about it, play with the thoughts, but the time will come and THEN you will know what to do.

That makes sense, right?

I'm pretty much done. I'm considering this Day 1 of "Therapy Anonymous". It's the only painful thing in my life right now. Yikes! I was so happy tonight and haven't thought about my T. much at all. It's like a weight has been lifted. She kept asking me "what is going right for you" and I couldn't answer her. I was so deep in the woods that I kept thinking of everything wrong and oh poor me. Not now.

I plan to go 7 weeks and see. I can't imagine it getting any worse but you never know. At that point, I hope to report that I don't need therapy anymore and will only contact her if something comes up. I need to be done for awhile and I'm really excited about getting to this point. I've already changed so much that others notice so I will be even better without therapy always in my head.

In the time I have been on PC you have talked about transference, without it seeming to get better, get worse or go away. So maybe the path you were on was not helping and I certainly hope that trying a new tactic helps in one way or another. You deserve good things and, although painful, taking a break from this stress factor may give you some clarity on where to go next.

Im so glad you came to this decision. I hope the best for you!

Day 2 is going fine. A few pangs with a few things she said to me but then I remember I can't worry about her, only me.

She once told me that your thoughts can turn into feelings so the first step is changing your thinking. I'm not sure that is true for all feelings but it is for what I'm doing now. I'm remembering that my life is good right now and I can handle whatever setbacks may come. If I can't, then that's when I can go for help. Maybe long term therapy just isn't good for my personality time which tends to ruminate. Someone once posted that word and it was me - in a cycle I couldn't get out of.

That's a very basic CBT concept, and one of the most useful understandings I got from CBT, but it isn't so much about changing your thinking -- that's a common misunderstanding about CBT. It's about understanding what you are thinking and how that is driving your emotions. If your thinking is based in reality, your feelings will generally be in line with reality.

For instance, if I am missing a person because I'm used to being around them and we are separated for some reason, that sadness or longing is perfectly natural and normal and rational and doesn't need to be changed. However, if I am separated from someone and I jump to "I'm going to be alone forever; I'm such a loser" "no one will ever love me," "I can't live without that person," etc., those thoughts are probably less rational and lead to feelings of inadequacy, depression, desperation, etc. At that point, I need to revisit those thoughts and decide if perhaps my thinking could be reframed in a more realistic/rational/less judgmental manner. If I can reframe my thinking, to the first line of thoughts perhaps, then generally the emotions will follow and I can honor that loss (in my example) as completely okay and allow them to exist without chastising myself about them.

So it isn't as black and white as saying "my thoughts are wrong; I must change them" as it is "my thoughts are skewed negatively somehow; how can I reframe my thinking for less judgment and negativity." It's more about adjusting one's thinking than about rejecting one's thinking completely.

You explained it much better than me!

Hey, it only took years of therapy to finally really internalize that and not do it superficially. I cannot begin to tell you how many times my T had to walk me through that process step by step . . .

I think you're really brave. The way things ended with mine, I am devestated and crushed, and I miss her a ton. HOWEVER, in a lot of ways I am less anxious without the fear of losing her.

I'm not doing well in general, but the one positive thing is no more fear of losing her.

I think if therapy creates issues and makes things worse, maybe it's not a good idea. But then again I am really skeptical of the idea that we can work out other relationships through "transference." Maybe try to find someone who focuses on dealing with the hurt you have in concrete ways rather than dwelling on it through exploration of "transference."

I'm so sorry

When I was deciding to leave T1 (reasons similar to yours), it felt like a process in itself:

1) Between session feelings of anger, resentment, and pain
2) Deciding to leave T
3) Leaving T
4) Relief that T can't be lost or taken from me anymore. Biggest fear realized. He's gone.
5) Waves of severe grief. Things in my life aren't going well, and I don't have him to turn to. I hear a song that reminds me of him on the radio, then feel sad. The pre-session excitement and nerves are no more. Agony that the thought of him is no longer a 'safe place' in my mind, and instead take up a painful space.
6) The internal image I have of him is fading. Feelings of emptiness take over. Thoughts of him are met with ambivalence.
7) Melancholy/minor depression
8) Rebuilding. Starting to feel like myself... before therapy. Only stronger.

It's really, really hard but it gets better

Going through a smaller version of this with T2. Also not sure what to do moving forward.

I think the hardest part has been when something happens and I want to tell her. Because nobody else gets it.

But that will fade too.

You can get throigh this!

I rarely have anxiety but I always had it before my sessions. I don't want to feel that way when I'm seeing someone to help me. She would ask what I was scared of and the only thing I knew was any kind of rejection yet she never rejected me.

It will be nice to not have a fear of losing her anymore.

I think maybe I've known for awhile this may happen. I still haven't cried and feel pretty good. Perhaps I'm not there because I haven't walked out for the final time. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll just keep spacing until I don't go anymore or I'll just go to someone else. I just feel really good right now putting all of this behind me. Instead of reading therapy books and online, I'm going to read parenting books and concentrate on my kids. When I get a pang, I take a deep breath and it goes away. Maybe I'm just pushing her away as a defense but I think some defenses are there for a reason. All I know is I'm ok.

You are ok Or, you will be.

I think it's great that you are brave enough to do what needs to be done, even though it's really hard. I got to a point with T1 that I thought - how much more suffering am I willing to take? Leaving might be a defense - or you may be leaving a toxic situation. Only you know.

Having it happen again with T2, I realize it's a pattern that I just need to be conscious about managing, perhaps my entire life. But I don't think everyone needs to work everything through in therapy. The idea of 'the process' is perpetuated by the very people that profit from it. The work needs to come from inside us, and sometimes a book, idea or inspiration is just as good.

Keep in mind, seven weeks is a really long time. Perhaps with some distance, it will tone down the transference to a point where you can actually work with your T again.

I don't think Soccer Mom's T has been trying to profit from the process- it's the T that wanted to space out sessions and refer her out, so I don't think her T was taking advantage of her feelings of neediness at all. I think Soccer Mom was actually right in the middle of the painful part of working through the transference, finally seeing what she was lacking and finding it very painful to face, and her T honored her discomfort with that by backing off as she indicated it was too much for her (for them both I think.) So the work was indeed coming from inside her, not being pushed on her by the T- those feelings that kept arising, and she's chosen a different direction. That doesn't make the therapy toxic or the therapist a profiteer.

No, I don't think her T was out of line either - though I do think it's an industry thing. IMO, 'The Process' can be used as an excuse to stick around in therapies that are less than helpful. I don't think there's an easy way for a client in the thick of transference to decide whether or not therapy is helpful or hurtful, and there's always a clear split within this forum of whether to stay or go. I'd be interested in real statistics on the help vs harm in long term therapies for people that aren't at risk for hurting themselves or others. And by toxic, I don't mean a toxic T, just a situation that is really bad for a client.

Not to speak for Soccer Mom, but it seems like she has pretty good clarity on her unmet needs and what the transference is all about. From what she said, it was her T that didn't seem willing to allow the intensity to continue by threatening referral - which I would find really hurtful, abandoning, and reenacting. It's just a hard, painful situation. I don't know...