[rainbow8]

I had my session today so of course she asked me how it was not emailing. She thinks I did great and wants me to try this week too. But she still says I'm choosing to do this. So again I said part of me doesn't see what the big deal is and why we can't email. She then said something like "but you know it's good for you" or "it's the right thing to do", and "it IS a big deal for you." If it was not such a big deal, she said it would be fine to email every couple of months!

My problem is that I don't react in the session but "every few months?" Who is she fooling? If I could I'd want to email much more often! Her statement didn't hit me until later. So it's my choice but she wants me to stop. So I'll try another week and see how it goes. It is hardest tonight. I told her how much the support from these forums helps me, that other people don't understand.

I told her that the hardest part is giving up her email to me signed "love, T." We talked about how those are just words but what's important is that she DOES love me! She came right out and said "I love you" to me again. I hesitated and then said "I love you too." I said I should have recorded her words! So, I have her love any time I want it!!

[rainbow8]

I feel unsettled but am very tired and not feeling too well from allergies. Giving up emailing is hard. I have to keep thinking over and over that my T wants me to be strong and independent, but she still loves me.

[Rive.]

I agree with your T: i believe it is a big deal - and all to your credit.

I guess she means that if you can integrate or ‘absorb’ the love/connection, you wouldn’t need emailing as much. It’s because it is a big deal, and your over-reliance (she wants you to be less dependent on external objects i.e. her) on this tool, that she hopes you can restrict emails (showing you can self-soothe, dig into your inner strength and even inner love).

Independence - or at less reliance on her emails - doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you or you don’t need her anymore but instead, that you can ‘use’ her ever present love/care/affection as a comfort blanket. And you can draw from this ‘love’ blanket whenever you need.

[bounceback]

Just want to say you are doing great rainbow. I am really proud of you. Eventually you will internalize her love. I think that is what she is hoping for. That way when and if your therapy is over you will be able to remember her with fondness and know that she cared and loved you and yet be independent and not feel like you cant function without her. She sounds like an amazing T. I am glad you have her. Keep up with the good work.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Rive.

I agree with your T: i believe it is a big deal - and all to your credit.

I guess she means that if you can integrate or ‘absorb’ the love/connection, you wouldn’t need emailing as much. It’s because it is a big deal, and your over-reliance (she wants you to be less dependent on external objects i.e. her) on this tool, that she hopes you can restrict emails (showing you can self-soothe, dig into your inner strength and even inner love).

Independence - or at less reliance on her emails - doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you or you don’t need her anymore but instead, that you can ‘use’ her ever present love/care/affection as a comfort blanket. And you can draw from this ‘love’ blanket whenever you need.

Do you remember the poem I wrote that I posted in the forum, called The Blanket of Love? It was about holding T's hand. She said that blanket of love can be with me all the time, just like you are saying. Parts of me didn't grow up. They need this love so much that it hurts and makes me cry because I want my T and my mother. She said today that everyone wants their mother no matter how old they are. (Or a mother figure though she didn't say that to me).

I see why this is good for me, aside from the logical angle that T could leave. It's putting me in touch with these powerful feelings of loss and need.

[bounceback]

Maybe these are the core issues that you need to work on. You have come so far. I know these last couple of years haven't been easy for you. You are so much stronger now. You should be proud.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by bounceback

Just want to say you are doing great rainbow. I am really proud of you. Eventually you will internalize her love. I think that is what she is hoping for. That way when and if your therapy is over you will be able to remember her with fondness and know that she cared and loved you and yet be independent and not feel like you cant function without her. She sounds like an amazing T. I am glad you have her. Keep up with the good work.

Thanks, bounceback. I don't want to function without my T! I know I can but I don't want to. I'm processing my session here instead of in an email to HER. I hope that's all right. No one is forced to read it. She asked how close I wanted her chair. I said I really want you sitting next to me. She said she would except then she can't see me as well, sitting next to me. So she moved her chair closer instead. In retrospect I should have had her sit next to me and hold my hand. I'm allowed to have that in the session.

[bounceback]

That is fine that you process everything here. That is what we are here for.
I enjoy reading your posts. You help me with my own struggles.

[Rive.]

Yes, it seems the hurt comes from a very young place.

You are so strong though: still, you are trying - however hard you find it.

May I just ask: if you know she loves you, why do you still feel the need for emails saying "love, T"? Forgive me for asking, and I hope I am not speaking out of turn, just genuinely trying to understand. To my mind it's harder to be sure of someone's love. Words, although nice, would only hold a secondary place to the feeling of being truly loved by another. But you seem to have successfully navigated (what I'd consider) the hardest part...

Hi rainbow,

Your post reminds me of my own experience regarding emailing with my therapists and my own underlying issues. I have an issue with emailing T as well that I have not overcome yet but we are using it to serve a purpose. I've had a problem spending far too much time interacting with people online for years, distracting me from many much more worthwhile and practical goals. And it never truly provided any relief or satisfaction to do the intense online interactions, more like a form of drug seeking.

My first T did not handle this well. Instead of investigating the motivation behind the emails with me, he engaged in it and got really entangled in it -- all this knowing full well that compulsive emailing was an issue for me. He did this in a very erratic way though, which made everything worse.

My current T handles it extremely well. He always responds to emails with practical content (like scheduling) or where I am addressing something very relevant to the therapy process very quickly, but in a conservative way, never extensively. Very consistent and predictable. What this has achieved: I no longer have the motivation to email all the time just for the sake of it with people, and when I do, I act it out with him: send the emails to him. He responds simply acknowledging receipt sometimes, other times he does not respond. I often feel very uneasy, upset, even angry when he does not respond, but I know what he does about all this is the only realistic way and serves a goal, namely to wean off the emailing urges. It's working for me because the desire is becoming less and less and I feel relieved. It's a slow process though.

The way I see the goal of all this is to eventually not have this obsessive-compulsive desire/need and satisfy, in a genuine way, it's source. Fulfill the true underlying need that I am substituting in my own life. I think that conscious inhibition and restraint helps little with this, it's mostly just white-knuckling. What I want to achieve, and what my T wants me to achieve as well, is to feel more complete, connected, and satisfied in my life and not have this compulsion. Or if that does not work, at least get it from a realistic, sustainable source.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Okay, no idea if this will get posted or not, but this whole series of threads makes me sad.

Rainbow, there is NOTHING wrong with emailing your therapist. Thousands upon thousands of people email their therapists.

I'm kind of tired of watching people make basic contact something pathological. As long as someone isn't emailing 50 times a day, a few emails a week is no big deal. A lot of therapists don't bat an eye over it, and the ones that do, I would never see. They're the lazy ones who want to collect the money for 50 minutes of work and not have to deal with clients any other time.

You have this gut feeling that emailing shouldn't be a big deal, you talk about how you're 'allowed' to have her hold your hand and sit next to you... basically, she has reduced you to a child begging for scraps of attention. No wonder you feel desperate and needy. You're ignoring your own gut instincts, you're being encouraged to put HER needs ahead of your own, nothing is about rainbow and everything is about you trying to work out what she wants (does she want you to email, or not? etc, etc).

True independence comes from interacting with people in an egalitarian way, not freaking out for weeks on end over something as simple as email. There's nothing adult about the way you're being treated.

I see several cases on here where therapists are clearly trying to wean clients off them, before the client is ready. It's BS.

I would dump this therapist and go and find one who isn't trying to shape your behavior in ways you don't even want. (I know you don't want to do that, because you're attached to her) but that attachment is hurting. Far from making you feel strong and independent, you're just sitting there hurting and wishing and... ugh. It's unprofessional - and I think it is far more about her than you.

[skysblue]

I need some help in understanding something. I wonder what the word 'love' means in the relationship with the therapist. I know, for me, IRL love means connection and ability to connect and usually anytime that's convenient for each person.

I love my friends and even though I may not talk to them or see them much, I know that when I want connection with them, they are open to it and me for them.

So, if a therapist says she loves the client, what does that mean? Can it be confusing for our minds when we define the meaning of love differently than what a therapist might mean? If we think love automatically creates a two-way street of connection, might the love from a therapist be doomed to feeling incomplete?

I believe I 'love' my therapist and she has said the same towards me. But, I know little about her and I'm not able to be there for her as she is for me. I want my connection to be more than just me receiving and her giving. I want to give too. I want to support her too. But, that's not possible because she's my therapist not my friend.

So, what does it mean when we use the word 'love' in regards to our therapists and are we setting ourselves up with expectations that are impossible to be filled?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Rive.

Yes, it seems the hurt comes from a very young place.

You are so strong though: still, you are trying - however hard you find it.

May I just ask: if you know she loves you, why do you still feel the need for emails saying "love, T"? Forgive me for asking, and I hope I am not speaking out of turn, just genuinely trying to understand. To my mind it's harder to be sure of someone's love. Words, although nice, would only hold a secondary place to the feeling of being truly loved by another. But you seem to have successfully navigated (what I'd consider) the hardest part...

I think because I'm a visual person. I have trouble remembering what people tell me, but if it's in black and white, it's tangible! I also think she writes "Love T" kind of automatically. Tuesday was only the second time she said "I love you" and I didn't really believe her the first time. Now that she said it again, I know it wasn't a whim.

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

Okay, no idea if this will get posted or not, but this whole series of threads makes me sad.

Rainbow, there is NOTHING wrong with emailing your therapist. Thousands upon thousands of people email their therapists.

I'm kind of tired of watching people make basic contact something pathological. As long as someone isn't emailing 50 times a day, a few emails a week is no big deal. A lot of therapists don't bat an eye over it, and the ones that do, I would never see. They're the lazy ones who want to collect the money for 50 minutes of work and not have to deal with clients any other time.

You have this gut feeling that emailing shouldn't be a big deal, you talk about how you're 'allowed' to have her hold your hand and sit next to you... basically, she has reduced you to a child begging for scraps of attention. No wonder you feel desperate and needy. You're ignoring your own gut instincts, you're being encouraged to put HER needs ahead of your own, nothing is about rainbow and everything is about you trying to work out what she wants (does she want you to email, or not? etc, etc).

True independence comes from interacting with people in an egalitarian way, not freaking out for weeks on end over something as simple as email. There's nothing adult about the way you're being treated.

I see several cases on here where therapists are clearly trying to wean clients off them, before the client is ready. It's BS.

I would dump this therapist and go and find one who isn't trying to shape your behavior in ways you don't even want. (I know you don't want to do that, because you're attached to her) but that attachment is hurting. Far from making you feel strong and independent, you're just sitting there hurting and wishing and... ugh. It's unprofessional - and I think it is far more about her than you.

These are my thoughts as well and I couldn't have stated it better.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

Okay, no idea if this will get posted or not, but this whole series of threads makes me sad.

Rainbow, there is NOTHING wrong with emailing your therapist. Thousands upon thousands of people email their therapists.

I'm kind of tired of watching people make basic contact something pathological. As long as someone isn't emailing 50 times a day, a few emails a week is no big deal. A lot of therapists don't bat an eye over it, and the ones that do, I would never see. They're the lazy ones who want to collect the money for 50 minutes of work and not have to deal with clients any other time.

You have this gut feeling that emailing shouldn't be a big deal, you talk about how you're 'allowed' to have her hold your hand and sit next to you... basically, she has reduced you to a child begging for scraps of attention. No wonder you feel desperate and needy. You're ignoring your own gut instincts, you're being encouraged to put HER needs ahead of your own, nothing is about rainbow and everything is about you trying to work out what she wants (does she want you to email, or not? etc, etc).

True independence comes from interacting with people in an egalitarian way, not freaking out for weeks on end over something as simple as email. There's nothing adult about the way you're being treated.

I see several cases on here where therapists are clearly trying to wean clients off them, before the client is ready. It's BS.

I would dump this therapist and go and find one who isn't trying to shape your behavior in ways you don't even want. (I know you don't want to do that, because you're attached to her) but that attachment is hurting. Far from making you feel strong and independent, you're just sitting there hurting and wishing and... ugh. It's unprofessional - and I think it is far more about her than you.

Well, your post to me DID get posted. You have an interesting viewpoint that has some validity, and part of me feels exactly the way you wrote it: what's the big deal about emails anyway? But you're missing the point. It IS a big deal to me because I've always been obsessive about relationships, and have never been able to get over my attachment issues. I'm NOT just sitting and hurting and wishing--if you only knew how I spend my days! I've become much stronger and independent, and by the way, I've seen 5 other Ts and this is the only one I'm making headway with about this issue.

I DO want to be independent, and that's my T's goal for me. It was my goal when I started seeing her, too.
I can't use my T as a friend and email her forever. I'd like to, but I know that allowing that would NOT be professional. It just makes me like her more and more, and want us to have more of a relationship than therapy is supposed to be. I never wanted to admit that, but it's the truth. Emailing friends often is fine, but emailing my T as though she were a friend is NOT. It might work out all right, but maybe not. Maybe she'll move away and not want me to email so much. Maybe she'll die. I have to stop depending on her to be something she's not.

My T answered my emails in detail the first year, and she still would answer if I wrote. It's not at ALL about her needs. She told me she enjoys my emails! It's about what is good for ME, not her. She wouldn't see me for half her price if she cared only about the money. After 6 years, I'm ready to TRY to do something she suggested, which is not to process my sessions via email. I agree with you that I don't see what's wrong with sending her a photo I want to show her, even if it's once a week. I'm going to bring that up with her again.

None of my other Ts allowed email, and they discouraged my calling them as much as I did.

Your post stirred things up but that's all right. I'm still trying out this behavior. It's up to me, my T said. She is not forcing me not to email. It's actually less stressful for me not to expect that one or two line response from her because I know what it's going to say anyway! I feel unsettled until I get it. This way I don't have to worry about it, but I know my T cares about me just the same.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

These are my thoughts as well and I couldn't have stated it better.

Oh this is getting interesting, isn't it? I can accept different opinions, I think. I don't like it when my T is criticized because I think she's amazing, but I can understand that people can have different opinions. I still think that for ME, it's a good idea to stop emailing each week. My T knows my history, and I trust her. She brought it up as "what would it be like for you if you journaled instead of emailing me?" It's a challenge to see if I can do it, and how I feel doing it. I will continue to question her about it, but so far, there are benefits. I'm not hurting terribly, just feeling more, and a lot may be about my Mom, not my T, anyway. I'm able to tolerate it, and after 6 years, that may be a good thing. Many people do not even stick with a T for 6 years; they quit or are terminated. That's not happening with me right now. I feel I'm getting stronger in general, and my T agrees!

[stopdog]

It can be both one's choice to try something new and the choice can be hard. The fact that it may be hard does not detract from the choice to try.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by skysblue

I need some help in understanding something. I wonder what the word 'love' means in the relationship with the therapist. I know, for me, IRL love means connection and ability to connect and usually anytime that's convenient for each person.

I love my friends and even though I may not talk to them or see them much, I know that when I want connection with them, they are open to it and me for them.

So, if a therapist says she loves the client, what does that mean? Can it be confusing for our minds when we define the meaning of love differently than what a therapist might mean? If we think love automatically creates a two-way street of connection, might the love from a therapist be doomed to feeling incomplete?

I believe I 'love' my therapist and she has said the same towards me. But, I know little about her and I'm not able to be there for her as she is for me. I want my connection to be more than just me receiving and her giving. I want to give too. I want to support her too. But, that's not possible because she's my therapist not my friend.

So, what does it mean when we use the word 'love' in regards to our therapists and are we setting ourselves up with expectations that are impossible to be filled?

My T and I talked about "therapy love" after she started signing emails with that word. She told me how she spontaneously wrote it one time, and I questioned her about it. She said she loves all of her clients. I know that it's different from love for a friend or relative because it's not totally reciprocated. It's like what you wrote above. I want to give to my T too, but she's not my friend. When I found about about her divorce, I spontaneously hugged her, and I bought her a little stuffed animal. She accepted both graciously. But we aren't friends. Yet she can still love me just like I love her. That's the problem with the emailing. It clearly says we are "almost like friends", though she never said that. I interpreted it that way, and wanted to believe it. I have to talk to her more about that, and about why she thinks it's not good for me to send photos, or other emails that are not processing my session. I guess because one is therapy, and she never wanted to do therapy via email in the first place, and the second makes us too much like friends, which is not part of "our work together."

So, if we understand that it's real love, but different because it's therapy, our expectations will be different. I'm learning that slowly. We DO pay our Ts, and we DO work together. Those are facts! Thanks for posting, skysblue.

[unaluna]

You wrote: what is wrong with sending her a photo i want her to see, once a week if i want to.

I went thru a thing with current t where i felt like i was a cat bringing him a dead bird every week. It eventually stopped. I wish i had paid more attention to why i stopped. I think he wanted to talk about it - one of the items was the sunday paper, which i just discontinued because someone kept stealing it, which really irritated me. But he never pushed me to stop. O course, he never pushes me to do anything. It might be his one tiny fault.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

Hi rainbow,

Your post reminds me of my own experience regarding emailing with my therapists and my own underlying issues. I have an issue with emailing T as well that I have not overcome yet but we are using it to serve a purpose. I've had a problem spending far too much time interacting with people online for years, distracting me from many much more worthwhile and practical goals. And it never truly provided any relief or satisfaction to do the intense online interactions, more like a form of drug seeking.

My first T did not handle this well. Instead of investigating the motivation behind the emails with me, he engaged in it and got really entangled in it -- all this knowing full well that compulsive emailing was an issue for me. He did this in a very erratic way though, which made everything worse.

My current T handles it extremely well. He always responds to emails with practical content (like scheduling) or where I am addressing something very relevant to the therapy process very quickly, but in a conservative way, never extensively. Very consistent and predictable. What this has achieved: I no longer have the motivation to email all the time just for the sake of it with people, and when I do, I act it out with him: send the emails to him. He responds simply acknowledging receipt sometimes, other times he does not respond. I often feel very uneasy, upset, even angry when he does not respond, but I know what he does about all this is the only realistic way and serves a goal, namely to wean off the emailing urges. It's working for me because the desire is becoming less and less and I feel relieved. It's a slow process though.

The way I see the goal of all this is to eventually not have this obsessive-compulsive desire/need and satisfy, in a genuine way, it's source. Fulfill the true underlying need that I am substituting in my own life. I think that conscious inhibition and restraint helps little with this, it's mostly just white-knuckling. What I want to achieve, and what my T wants me to achieve as well, is to feel more complete, connected, and satisfied in my life and not have this compulsion. Or if that does not work, at least get it from a realistic, sustainable source.

Thank you! You sound like a clone of me! I have similar issues with obsession and emails, and I could spend my whole day on my phone, not talking to people, but emailing! My T advised me not to get a smartphone before I did, but I do love it! I'm addicted to the writing and receiving emails, and to these forums too.

My T loves to hear and see evidence that I am painting, swimming, going out with friends and family, rather than posting here. She is encouraging real life! Emailing her has been a compulsion, and is not helping me get on with my life. I don't see it as terribly harmful, but I can see my potential devastation if something happens to her. Yes, anyone in my life can die, but a T is unique and fills roles no one else can. I think you understand that. Therapy itself has been like a drug for me, but this T has always gently pushed me out into the real world. I can see why not emailing her is one of my goals. Good luck with it, and thank you so much for posting and for sharing with me!

[rainbow8]

It's Thursday already! I'm doing well with the new plan, and I feel proud of myself.

[Waterbear]

You are right to be proud of yourself. That is great going!

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Oh this is getting interesting, isn't it? I can accept different opinions, I think. I don't like it when my T is criticized because I think she's amazing, but I can understand that people can have different opinions. I still think that for ME, it's a good idea to stop emailing each week. My T knows my history, and I trust her. She brought it up as "what would it be like for you if you journaled instead of emailing me?" It's a challenge to see if I can do it, and how I feel doing it. I will continue to question her about it, but so far, there are benefits. I'm not hurting terribly, just feeling more, and a lot may be about my Mom, not my T, anyway. I'm able to tolerate it, and after 6 years, that may be a good thing. Many people do not even stick with a T for 6 years; they quit or are terminated. That's not happening with me right now. I feel I'm getting stronger in general, and my T agrees!

I think the important thing is that your therapy is what YOU want for yourself, not what she wants for you or what you think you want because of her influence.

My thoughts on emailing is that if a therapist allows it, I think they should be willing to accept whatever comes in without attempting to curb the content or the frequency. I do think it's up to them to set the guideline as to what they will respond to and how often, and be consistent with that. Email is helpful in many ways, especially with respect to dealing with very difficult feelings that therapy stirs up. The fact that you still find it very helpful and are having a tough time weaning off it it makes me think it's still a very necessary, important therapy tool for you.

In my experience, obsession wanes on its own over time if left to play out. Eventually when you feel completely safe and secure in the relationship over a very long period of time, your therapist will be much less interesting to you and you won't feel like emailing anymore. I think that's very different from deciding that emailing ir dependency is a 'bad' thing and challenging yourself to stop when your natural need right now is for connection.

I do think the fact that you can tolerate uncomfortable feelings is great, but again you heard my opinion and I don't think therapy needs to be nearly as uncomfortable as it is for many people.

Your therapist sounds like a lovely person by the way, and noted how protective you are of her. I'm the same way with mine.

[Ellahmae]

I just had a thought on this thread, not sure how it would help or benefit but it just popped into my head so figured I share. Please forgive me if I don't make sense or am way off base (I'm having a hard time being semi-coherent lately)

1. Just in response to the thread title my thought was: Could it be like my T? She still welcomes whatever I want to send when I want to send it (texts / letters) but at the same time it's okay if I don't. Not that she doesn't want me to but it's okay. If I don't text her or write her a letter she still feels the same about me, nothing changes. I think that's the point for my relationship, that I don't have to text (unless she requires me to for safety purposes) or write letters to her to express things. It's a connection I feel when I do it and less the content. Like she 'has something of mine'. It's weird but it is what it is. She respects that and understands it. So if she doesn't text back or we don't communicate for a few hours, it's okay. She still is there. She isn't mad and by this I'm able to (failing at it right now) be a little more self reassuring, and I tell myself those things when I start to miss the connection. I have made a list of all the things she's done, said, etc that when I'm starting to doubt or feel she's upset with me I read the list aloud and try to calm my other parts. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't - and either way, it's okay.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

I think the important thing is that your therapy is what YOU want for yourself, not what she wants for you or what you think you want because of her influence.

My thoughts on emailing is that if a therapist allows it, I think they should be willing to accept whatever comes in without attempting to curb the content or the frequency. I do think it's up to them to set the guideline as to what they will respond to and how often, and be consistent with that. Email is helpful in many ways, especially with respect to dealing with very difficult feelings that therapy stirs up. The fact that you still find it very helpful and are having a tough time weaning off it it makes me think it's still a very necessary, important therapy tool for you.

In my experience, obsession wanes on its own over time if left to play out. Eventually when you feel completely safe and secure in the relationship over a very long period of time, your therapist will be much less interesting to you and you won't feel like emailing anymore. I think that's very different from deciding that emailing ir dependency is a 'bad' thing and challenging yourself to stop when your natural need right now is for connection.

I do think the fact that you can tolerate uncomfortable feelings is great, but again you heard my opinion and I don't think therapy needs to be nearly as uncomfortable as it is for many people.

Your therapist sounds like a lovely person by the way, and noted how protective you are of her. I'm the same way with mine.

I agree with you in theory but my T says we have to continually reevaluate if something is helping me or not. When I told her I was disappointed with her responses to email, she stopped responding. We tried again at a later time. If it were up to me to make all the decisions, I would email forever. I would make her answer me. I would see my T weekly until I die. I would never take steps to separate. That's the way I am. It's been 6 years. Email helped me a lot but now it's time to change. If I don't listen to my Ts suggestions, what's the point in seeing her? What do you call a long period of time? Isn't 6 years long? She could quit working in 10 years and I'd still be emailing every week as though we're friends. I've been dependent on T's for over 20 years. I think it's time to make a few changes though I don't ever want to quit unless something major happens in my life.

I've noticed that my T is less interesting to me. I don't feel like I'm "in love" with her anymore. It's a more normal relationship to me which is why it's hard to accept the limits. Not the email limit per se, but the limits of therapy. I can't visit her at her home. We can't go out to lunch. She's a casual down-to-Earth kind of person which makes it hard. I don't know if I answered you completely. Maybe it's a gut feeling it's time for me to let go of T in this way.