[SarahSweden]

I found out my T isn´t honest with me when it comes to treating me like a person - it´s only therapy technique!

We had an evaluation meeting and as I was personally orientated when I talked about how I felt about therapy and her, my T was only process orientated. She didn´t say anything positive about me as a person or that she felt it will be nice continue working together or something like that.

I´ve been in therapy for about 10 months now and for at least 8 months we have had a certain way of ending the session, by shaking hands and I usually say thanks as we shake hands.

Last session she forgot! She headed for the door as was her original routine and she then realized she had missed our handshake and she went back to me and we shook hands.

Now, I realize the personal things around therapy like saying hello, ending sessions and so on isn´t important to her. I´m only her working material and I can also notice that by the fact it´s always me who says "hello" first when she picks me up in the waiting area, she never initiates a "hello".

If it had been important to her and if she thought it would be nice seeing me, of course you spontaneously sometimes say hello first. And the biggest "evidence" is of course that she forgot the handshake as it´s something she does only technically, it´s not that she thinks she wants to show she cares or wants me to feel it´s a nice ending to our session.

I also know some T:s are really genuine and have a routine for starting and ending sessions to make the client feel welcome and by that I also see my T is only doing this by technique, no heart!

I don´t know how to handle this besides acting more low-key next time, not saying "hello" in the waiting area and so on. Even if that will be very obvious I also think of just leaving at the end of the session, not wait for the handshake but just open the door and leave. I don´t feel it´s something to discuss as she actually shows what she really thinks every time, it´s only me who thought or wanted to believe it was genuine.

You know. Apparently this therapist has been working for you as you have attested to that as of late, but you do seem to have a tendency to pick apart every single thing she does and then consider playing games as tests or defiance of her. You get hyperfocused on things like a handshake. Does that really negate the other work you do? If so, the problem is probably more than the handshake. If not, can you possibly consider just accepting that your T does apparently do fairly good work with you despite that she isn't absolutely everything you wish for? Just seems like you sometimes create issues where there just don't really need to be any.

[Myrto]

She just forgot to shake hands with you... It can happen. I think you're doing a lot of projecting here. You should tell her all this instead of trying to play games with her (as you suggest at the end of your post). My therapist has forgotten to shake hands with me. Once or twice I think. That's all it is: she forgot. It happens. That doesn't mean she does not care about you or that it is a technique.

[Pennster]

Could you see it as that she is tailoring the way she works because she wants you to be comfortable and for you to work well together?

I guess I don't understand how her taking a more personalized approach in response to your feedback means she is only doing something as a technique. I think it might be also interpretable as a sign that she is willing to be flexible according to what you need.

But I see it's very painful for you - I am sorry you are having a difficult time.

[stopdog]

I think therapists as a whole are dishonest. I have no need for their hearts to get involved in any way.

I don't fully understand the situation that lead you to this as a surprising revelation - but taking charge as to how to end or begin may be a good thing. I doubt it will have any effect on the the therapist, but it might make you feel more in charge.

[peaches100]

Hi SarahSweden,

I can relate to your hurt and angry feelings. Because of the way I was raised, I also pay attention to the smallest cues that might indicate that my t doesn't care about me personally or that I don't mean anything more to her than a time slot.

In a similar way, it sounds like you also have learned to analyze people's gestures, facial expressions, greeting (or lack of), and other nonverbal signals as a way to gauge whether their interest and concern for you are genuine or not.

Many times, this kind of response comes from having had very bad experiences in the past of feeling unloved and unimportant to people who were very important to us. It makes us hypervigilant and on the alert for any sign that someone we care about it going to hurt us. I wonder if some of this might be true for you also.

Having said this, I'm guessing that your t just forgot to shake your hand that day. It doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't care about you. People do forget things, and it doesn't automatically mean that what they forget wasn't important to them. At times, I have hurt people I really care about by forgetting to say or do something. But it wasn't because I didn't care about them. I did and do!! But I have a problem with paying attention and being present, especially when I'm under stress.

As long as I can remember, I've always tended to be spacey. I get distracted. I always feel bad if this causes someone else hurt feelings because it isn't a reflection of how important a person is to me. It's a reflection of my own limitations.

It's possible that your t just forgot about the handshake that day, but that it has nothing to do with her feelings for you.

If your hurt feelings continue, I hope you will discuss this with her. When something like this has happened to me, I've had to work through it with my t. Otherwise, I become closed off and self-protective, and it interferes with the therapy work.

Peaches

[atisketatasket]

Whoa whoa whoa. Did you not want her to have a goodbye ritual? So the two of you set one up. Either she is not being dishonest, adapted to what you asked for to fulfill your needs as a client, and forgot to shake hands...or you are complicit in her dishonesty because you asked her to change her normal goodbye ritual. Which is it? You can't ask a therapist - or anyone really - to do something for you and then accuse them of dishonesty because it is not in fact what they would normally do.

Also, when you say, "I also know some T:s are really genuine and have a routine for starting and ending sessions to make the client feel welcome and by that I also see my T is only doing this by technique, no heart!", by your standards they are no more genuine than your therapist. They have anticipated what a client might like better...but it's still a routine.

This is very blunt, but Sarah, we all want you to get the most out of this therapist, and when you start thinking things like this and resolve to be more "low-key" next week, you are not helping yourself.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. It´s not about the handshake itself but what forgetting the handshake is telling me. She offered me to end with a handshake and I have believed that she as well thought it would be nice ending our sessions that way.

But now, as she so easily turned to her old routine heading for the door (probably a routine she still uses with some clients) it´s so obvious it´s just technique to her. It´s not like "I like this client and I want her to feel it´s a good ending to our session". No it´s like "I use this technique on my working material so I can make her talk and I can show my managers I succeed with my clients".

Originally Posted by lolagrace

You know. Apparently this therapist has been working for you as you have attested to that as of late, but you do seem to have a tendency to pick apart every single thing she does and then consider playing games as tests or defiance of her. You get hyperfocused on things like a handshake. Does that really negate the other work you do? If so, the problem is probably more than the handshake. If not, can you possibly consider just accepting that your T does apparently do fairly good work with you despite that she isn't absolutely everything you wish for? Just seems like you sometimes create issues where there just don't really need to be any.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, it´s the way she approached this in the beginning, that she could adjust her way of ending sessions in a way that I liked more than her old routine.

By that - it´s only technique to her, it´s not like she feels she wants to end in a more personal manner but it´s a technique to make me talk and relate to her.

Originally Posted by Pennster

Could you see it as that she is tailoring the way she works because she wants you to be comfortable and for you to work well together?

I guess I don't understand how her taking a more personalized approach in response to your feedback means she is only doing something as a technique. I think it might be also interpretable as a sign that she is willing to be flexible according to what you need.

But I see it's very painful for you - I am sorry you are having a difficult time.

[stopdog]

If it is a technique that helps you - is it bad?
I believe everything a therapist does is a technique - but why would that be wrong? They are trained to manipulate and use techniques on clients.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I can relate a lot to what you describe in your post and as you I often check for "signs" that can tell me things about people, like if they don´t like me and such.

Have you been able to find out (in therapy) an event or events in your life that led you up to feeling like this? I know I act this way but I don´t know why, I haven´t found any specific events in my life that I can connect to these feelings.

I agree I should bring this up with my T if I continue feeling the same way but any adjustments she does won´t help me. I´ll then feel like "that´s just another use of technique" if she for example changed our way of ending sessions to make me feel better. But I don´t feel better when the person, a T or another, does a thing they aren´t in need of, I mean to her it doesn´t have any emotional meaning if I say goodbye to her or not. She doesn´t care if I don´t or if I do.

Originally Posted by peaches100

Hi SarahSweden,

I can relate to your hurt and angry feelings. Because of the way I was raised, I also pay attention to the smallest cues that might indicate that my t doesn't care about me personally or that I don't mean anything more to her than a time slot.

In a similar way, it sounds like you also have learned to analyze people's gestures, facial expressions, greeting (or lack of), and other nonverbal signals as a way to gauge whether their interest and concern for you are genuine or not.

Many times, this kind of response comes from having had very bad experiences in the past of feeling unloved and unimportant to people who were very important to us. It makes us hypervigilant and on the alert for any sign that someone we care about it going to hurt us. I wonder if some of this might be true for you also.

Having said this, I'm guessing that your t just forgot to shake your hand that day. It doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't care about you. People do forget things, and it doesn't automatically mean that what they forget wasn't important to them. At times, I have hurt people I really care about by forgetting to say or do something. But it wasn't because I didn't care about them. I did and do!! But I have a problem with paying attention and being present, especially when I'm under stress.

As long as I can remember, I've always tended to be spacey. I get distracted. I always feel bad if this causes someone else hurt feelings because it isn't a reflection of how important a person is to me. It's a reflection of my own limitations.

It's possible that your t just forgot about the handshake that day, but that it has nothing to do with her feelings for you.

If your hurt feelings continue, I hope you will discuss this with her. When something like this has happened to me, I've had to work through it with my t. Otherwise, I become closed off and self-protective, and it interferes with the therapy work.

Peaches

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Interesting viewpoint. When we set the goodbye ritual up I immediately said to her that I didn´t want her to set such a ritual up just because I asked her to. She then answered that she was offering that to me.

I don´t mean the offering was dishonest but the dishonesty to me lies within the fact that she uses setting up a goodbye ritual for a purpose to make me talk and relate to her and not because she feel for me as a person. I now mean from a human to another human, I don´t mean I expect us to be friends or anything like that.

I´m not sure I really got you when you mentioned this about other T:s and them having established rituals for example starting and ending sessions but in those cases where T:s have rituals my point was that they have thought through what will make their clients feel welcome and so on.

It´s a technique as well but the large difference is that they have, without a client telling them so, thought about things they want to do because they want the client to feel comfortable and so on. It´s not like "OK, I´ll change this and that so I can make my client talk" without them having a genuine feeling behind the rituals.

I agree it perhaps won´t be helpful acting more low-key in session next week but it´s a way of protecting myself and I don´t want to engage too much in people who have ambiguous motives.

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Whoa whoa whoa. Did you not want her to have a goodbye ritual? So the two of you set one up. Either she is not being dishonest, adapted to what you asked for to fulfill your needs as a client, and forgot to shake hands...or you are complicit in her dishonesty because you asked her to change her normal goodbye ritual. Which is it? You can't ask a therapist - or anyone really - to do something for you and then accuse them of dishonesty because it is not in fact what they would normally do.

Also, when you say, "I also know some T:s are really genuine and have a routine for starting and ending sessions to make the client feel welcome and by that I also see my T is only doing this by technique, no heart!", by your standards they are no more genuine than your therapist. They have anticipated what a client might like better...but it's still a routine.

This is very blunt, but Sarah, we all want you to get the most out of this therapist, and when you start thinking things like this and resolve to be more "low-key" next week, you are not helping yourself.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. No, it´s not bad as long as you as a client doesn´t feel it´s just a technique and nothing beyond that. To me genuine feelings is very important from a T and I now mean genuine feelings within the therapeutic relationship and a therapy that´s built upon too much of techniques is playing with the clients feelings.

I think it´s ok and necessary to use techniques within the actual talk, like if a client cries a lot and has difficulties to speak, but it´s absolutely dishonest when techniques are used to give the appearance of that the client is cared for, that the T likes the client and so on. I find that comparable to if I dated someone I didn´t like but I know I can gain something from pretending I like that person so I continue dating that person using dishonest motives.

Originally Posted by stopdog

If it is a technique that helps you - is it bad?
I believe everything a therapist does is a technique - but why would that be wrong? They are trained to manipulate and use techniques on clients.

[stopdog]

I think it best when a client sees it and recognizes such things. It gives the client knowledge and power. I don't see it as dishonest when everyone knows they are doing such a thing. They are trained to try to do that sort of thing at clients. It is, from what I have read and seen, their main goal.
If you don't like it - then it would be freeing, it seems to me, to just go in and be however you like without regard to the therapist at all. Take control - don't let her reactions control you.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I agree "all" clients know that therapy is partly about using techniques but at the same time I´ve had a T I felt cared about me in a more genuine way and such caring you feel is not just about technique. That T was a lot more spontaneous in her way of talking to and meet with me, she could easily give me a compliment and such.

I agree it´s possible to just "act out" and ignore everything that I think of as her using techniques but for me, I´d felt very scattered if I was to use such a way of handling things.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think it best when a client sees it and recognizes such things. It gives the client knowledge and power. I don't see it as dishonest when everyone knows they are doing such a thing. They are trained to try to do that sort of thing at clients. It is, from what I have read and seen, their main goal.
If you don't like it - then it would be freeing, it seems to me, to just go in and be however you like without regard to the therapist at all. Take control - don't let her reactions control you.

[ruh roh]

Don't you wonder if maybe you would have the same reaction with what you describe as other therapists' rituals that seem to come from genuine feelings? In other words, it might be more of a pattern of your own thinking than anything to do with someone else's motivation?

There is something I told my therapist I like to hear her say. It's very ordinary and to probably anyone else, it wouldn't mean anything, but it matters to me, so she says it every time I leave and at the close of every email. Is it a technique or it is an indication that she has heard me? She forgot to write it in an email once and then followed up with another email that she'd hit send too fast, then included the words I'd said I like to hear. Was it cold technique because she'd forgotten? Not to me. To me, it showed/shows that she knows it's important to me, and the fact she listens to that makes it meaningful to me.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the fact your therapist adjusted to what you asked for can be viewed as a positive--she was responding to what you asked for. In wanting the handshake to be as meaningful to her as it is to you, aren't you the one who is using technique to influence her behavior?

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. Yes, I agree "all" clients know that therapy is partly about using techniques but at the same time I´ve had a T I felt cared about me in a more genuine way and such caring you feel is not just about technique. That T was a lot more spontaneous in her way of talking to and meet with me, she could easily give me a compliment and such.

I agree it´s possible to just "act out" and ignore everything that I think of as her using techniques but for me, I´d felt very scattered if I was to use such a way of handling things.

I am not saying just act out - I am saying don't let her reactions control you.
But as it is apparent I don't understand anything about this situation for you - good luck in dealing with her however you decide to do it or even if you choose to stop.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. Yes, I agree "all" clients know that therapy is partly about using techniques but at the same time I´ve had a T I felt cared about me in a more genuine way and such caring you feel is not just about technique. That T was a lot more spontaneous in her way of talking to and meet with me, she could easily give me a compliment and such.

I agree it´s possible to just "act out" and ignore everything that I think of as her using techniques but for me, I´d felt very scattered if I was to use such a way of handling things.

And didn't that therapist leave you? This woman has stuck with you, changed her normal behavior for you, and even renewed your time together for a few more months, right? To me that says caring. Actions speak louder than words and an empathic face.

Because people seem caring does not mean they are, and because they don't seem caring does not mean they are not. In high school, the popular teachers were the ones who seemed to care and the unpopular ones the ones who seemed remote and crusty. But you know what - generally speaking the remote, crusty ones were the ones that did more extra work with students, wrote great references for college, alerted their students to more prize and scholarship opportunities, etc. The more popular teachers did some of this, but never to the degree the unpopular ones did.

Have you considered why you seem to have so many issues with this woman and why you seem intent on being disappointed in her?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I don´t think so if I liked the way the T for example started and ended the session, then I´d just feel they were polite and caring.

I´m not trained to used techniques and when I asked for this ending session ritual I did this because I wanted to feel a connection and to be able to show some gratitude after session by shaking hands and saying thank you. But if that doesn´t matter to my T, if we do this or not, of course I don´t want to do it anymore. It´s the same thing for other "rituals" or way of acting in therapy.

I´m not sure I´d adjust my way to a client if I didn´t feel something behind doing so, I think I´d feel fake if I saw a client appreciate me shaking hands with him/her and at the same time knowing I was evoking such feelings by technique and not through genuine feelings.

Originally Posted by ruh roh

Don't you wonder if maybe you would have the same reaction with what you describe as other therapists' rituals that seem to come from genuine feelings? In other words, it might be more of a pattern of your own thinking than anything to do with someone else's motivation?

There is something I told my therapist I like to hear her say. It's very ordinary and to probably anyone else, it wouldn't mean anything, but it matters to me, so she says it every time I leave and at the close of every email. Is it a technique or it is an indication that she has heard me? She forgot to write it in an email once and then followed up with another email that she'd hit send too fast, then included the words I'd said I like to hear. Was it cold technique because she'd forgotten? Not to me. To me, it showed/shows that she knows it's important to me, and the fact she listens to that makes it meaningful to me.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the fact your therapist adjusted to what you asked for can be viewed as a positive--she was responding to what you asked for. In wanting the handshake to be as meaningful to her as it is to you, aren't you the one who is using technique to influence her behavior?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, she left me and I was part of it and that was quite a mess but the thing is that I still feel more for my former T than I do for my current one. Even if I think my former T did several things wrong when ending therapy with me, I still remember her warmth and caring before our disputes ended up in a termination.

As I´m within public health care I don´t see extending therapy has anything to do with caring. T:s within public health care are very controlled by the DSM and diagnoses and based on that, they either choose to end or extend therapy.

I think I have several issues with my T as I was assigned to her, there was no choice to make as she´s the only one at the clinic I´m at and switching clinics would imply risking not getting another chance for therapy or being stuck waiting many months or even more than a year to see another T.

My impression is she doesn´t have the time or interest in her clients in general as she works with many more clients than a private T does and the clients are assigned to her. That is, she works with clients she doesn´t choose herself and as she has to get paid she can´t just say "no" because she doesn´t like a client.

A private T has generally speaking a lot more freedom to choose between clients and to choose the ones he or she feels a bit for.

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

And didn't that therapist leave you? This woman has stuck with you, changed her normal behavior for you, and even renewed your time together for a few more months, right? To me that says caring. Actions speak louder than words and an empathic face.

Because people seem caring does not mean they are, and because they don't seem caring does not mean they are not. In high school, the popular teachers were the ones who seemed to care and the unpopular ones the ones who seemed remote and crusty. But you know what - generally speaking the remote, crusty ones were the ones that did more extra work with students, wrote great references for college, alerted their students to more prize and scholarship opportunities, etc. The more popular teachers did some of this, but never to the degree the unpopular ones did.

Have you considered why you seem to have so many issues with this woman and why you seem intent on being disappointed in her?

[SoupDragon]

It's taken me a long long time to trust my T enough to be really honest about "our" relationship, but by being honest, I can really feel the benefits. I know it can feel hard, but I hope you could find a way of talking about this with your T. It is the interactions that make us feel a certain way that can be the most useful to be curious about. You might learn a lot about you, your T and your T relationship, by bringing this up.

[Myrto]

Sarah, I think you want your therapist to feel that the handshake is as special to her as it is to you. But I mean, that's just not possible. Therapists do not care for us as much as we the clients care for them. I asked my therapist to start shaking my hand a couple months ago. Why? I wanted to touch her and get touched. She agreed. Now we shake hands at the beginning and at the end. It feels great. Do I think it's a super special moment for her when she shakes my hand? Well of course not. But she agreed to shake my hand because she thought it would be therapeutic. Even if it's just a technique to her, so what? I get to shake hands with her, that's all that matters. Perhaps you could see it that way? You get to shake your T's hand. Isn't that nice? And she agreed to shake yours. And that's nice too. But no, it's not super meaningful to her, no. So what?

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I think I have several issues with my T as I was assigned to her, there was no choice to make as she´s the only one at the clinic I´m at and switching clinics would imply risking not getting another chance for therapy or being stuck waiting many months or even more than a year to see another T.

My impression is she doesn´t have the time or interest in her clients in general as she works with many more clients than a private T does and the clients are assigned to her. That is, she works with clients she doesn´t choose herself and as she has to get paid she can´t just say "no" because she doesn´t like a client.

My question about whether you had thought about why you seem so determined to be disappointed in her wasn't a question to be answered on the surface, as you did by naming some characteristics of her or impressions she gives you - it was a question about you and how you navigate the world. Do you look for faults in others? Are you easily disappointed in them? Is there a pattern here that you might want to change?

[ScarletPimpernel]

This has become a pattern for you with this T. You constantly find one fault, one error, obsess on it, and basically "condemn" your T.

I don't know the situation since I'm not there, but my guess is that this problem, as well as, the other issues you've had with your T are actually your own personal problems and NOT actual problems with the T.

What you say in this thread doesn't make sense logically. You asked her for handshake? And she agreed! And you didn't consider that a "technique" when she agreed? But now you do because she forgot one time?!?! And yet she did remember in the end and gave you a handshake...

My T and I hug after every session (my request). She forgot one time. I just stood there an was like "Hey! You forgot the hug!" She apologized and came back and gave me a hug. No big deal.

[Wonderfalls]

I also wouldn't worry much about the handshake. My therapist of 15 years smiles at me but he always waits for me to say hello first--to gauge my mood. I would worry a lot more about her having nothing good to say about you. Her job is to support you and be on your side and help you feel better about yourself. I think she let you down there.