I think It's time I make up a good list of it instead of ranting all the time:
1. I always feel trapped, nowhere to go once I start the treatment
2. I always feel they are against me
3. I don't like being dominated
4. I don't like being a subordinate
5. It takes too much time wasted on things I do not want to go over
6. Unsolicited advice regarding things I never asked advice for
7. Feeling judged and scorned, rather than understand my behaviors. By the way, some members would, instead of helping me with the main issues, comment on small matters such as words I'd use such as

Possible trigger:

"Retarded"

. I don't like to be picked on small matters which have nothing to do with the main topic.
8. I can sniff fakeness. I can sniff a fake empathetic nod, I can sniff sarcasm behind words. Those are not red flags. Those are black flags
9. I can see "behind the scenes" so to speak. One therapist actually managed to positively influence me in some mild manipulation which only succeeded after a few hours. When I noticed the influence, this came to my mind:
.
(If you're unfamiliar with the series then it's said in a playful way, not a hostile way)
A greater example of "seeing behind the scenes" is when I commented on a different therapist's unnamed approach. I told them "I like it when you talk in a way I can understand". They then gave a "Oh... he's GOOD..." kind of nod to themselves after I said that. We knew it would not work out after I said that.

Now I will note this - there were so far VERY FEW therapists who did not go through the red lines, I can count them with one hand. However I am still very concerned about the procedures. I am afraid it will only pull me further down

Any advice will be appreciated. I started noticing I am getting less replies lately. I know I seem out of help. Believe me, I see it all about myself and I am both frustrated and just through with it. Events have set me off badly. It's also about how I could've handled myself better, but I guess I was too selfish and self-absorbed because of all the stress

[Amyjay]

To be honest, I find you quite scary. I don't say that to offend or upset, although I know if someone said that to me I would be really upset myself. So I know that it might, and I am sorry for that. But I want to tell you despite that risk. Because I think it is important to get honest feedback about how we come across to others.

So, I say with all honestly I find you to be quite scary. In a "if you say anything I don't like you can go get ****** " kind of way. I doubt I am the only poster who feels that way.

If I were a therapist and you came in to my office I do believe I would be **** scared of you.

A question:

Do you want to come across that way to others? Is that intended? Or is it not? Are you aware of it?

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I stopped replying to your posts after you misinterpreted a simple statement not meant as advice or suggestion as me giving unsolicited advice, even though I explicitly stated it was not (and told me to stop replying to you). Maybe you do similar things in therapy and that’s why you don’t seem to get along with your Ts?

[seeker33]

I don't think I ever responded to your questions as I had nothing to say or suggest. But I have to agree with what Amy said. I think i'd be a little bit afraid of you if I met you in person.
This was mainly caused by your thread where you said you have no problem with hurting others and don't like being challenged about that. To me it sounded like you feel your abuse gives you right to abuse others.
I think perhaps this thread might have caused that some members of the forum chose not to reply.
I'm very sorry if that thread wasn't yours and I'm mixing you with someone else. In that case I deeply apologise and will delete this part of my post.
I get a similar feeling when you write about your Ts. I personally hate fake smiles and fake acted empathy as well. However from reading your post it seems like you are trying very hard to see the negatives in everyone.

[yellow_fleurs]

Do you think you have a hard time relating to, trusting, and/or respecting other people? I am not trying to judge, just wondering based on your posts and concerns that seem to center around this (feeling judged, like they are against you, not wanting to be dominated, etc). It would seem to me that this could make interacting with people such as your T, and therapy in general, more difficult which would impact your ability to get your needs met. Do you think you play a part in the difficulty that you are having with therapy? It would seem to me to be a bit of a catch 22 if you don't want to address these types of issues in therapy or work to build a relationship with a T that you can trust, but they then impact the ability of your therapist to help you. I don't mean to suggest you have to have a really close relationship, but basic trust is needed.

[junkDNA]

I agree I feel like you attack people here and that's probably why people stopped replying

Originally Posted by seeker33

I don't think I ever responded to your questions as I had nothing to say or suggest. But I have to agree with what Amy said. I think i'd be a little bit afraid of you if I met you in person.
This was mainly caused by your thread where you said you have no problem with hurting others and don't like being challenged about that. To me it sounded like you feel your abuse gives you right to abuse others.
I think perhaps this thread might have caused that some members of the forum chose not to reply.
I'm very sorry if that thread wasn't yours and I'm mixing you with someone else. In that case I deeply apologise and will delete this part of my post.
I get a similar feeling when you write about your Ts. I personally hate fake smiles and fake acted empathy as well. However from reading your post it seems like you are trying very hard to see the negatives in everyone.

You may not be wrong.
I once made a thread about being compensated for damage done to me by someone who was supposed to care for me. I did not have any intent to abuse, but to get what is right for me
The therapist with whom I talked about this completely disregarded the possibility that I have gone through abuse, and instead chose to look at me in a dismissive manner - "Why do you think you deserved to be compensated?", she asked. I told her and she asked again, regardless if that value of mine has anything to do with people or not. So I told her about my skills. I acted compliantly, I do not see where this is my problem. The therapist after some time asked the same question, "Why do you think you deserve that?", as if I've said nothing until now. They were the same therapist with the sarcastic empathetic nod. I left

[toomanycats]

I waiver between finding you a bit scary and also wondering if you might be on the autism spectrum. Some of the way you speak reminds me very much of my own brother (who can certainly also come across as scary) who has PDD-NOS. You seem very inflexible and quite black-and-white in your thinking. As well as paranoid and narcissistic.

I do think you hit one nail on the head here:
You see your therapists (and, it seems, most other people as well) as against you. That is a huge barrier in therapy and in other human relationships.

Edit to add:
anyone who does not 100% agree with you, you seem to see as against you - and you insult them/their character.

Problem:
The point of therapy is to challenge your current way of thinking -- to find the cognitive dissonance and challenge it, point it out. That is what a therapist does.

As long as you see any challenge to your current way of thinking as a threat or an attack, you will not improve and will continue to fail in therapy.

[here today]

I don't find you scary. But I do get frustrated when you seem to insist on seeing everything only your way, and therefore seem to want people only to agree with you, or support your views. Which in many cases I do, but from a slightly different perspective.

In my own life I have found that considering the views of people who have some similarities with me, some differences, can help me to expand my own perspective, my own vision.

I think your list is a good idea. That is how you are in the present. No fakeness that I can see. Hence, probably a good starting point for your further development or "change"? I've found that when I "change", by abandoning parts of myself, it doesn't work out in the long term, so congrats to you for not going down that road.

The challenge that I see is, what roads are there for you to go down? I understand your anger and that point of view. It's one that I abandoned in myself, had a hard time finding and accepting. But it also seems like a black hole when I am in it, lonely, and stuck.

Are there any people or any things in life that you like. That's kind of what I'm trying to find at the moment. Perhaps then a way or a road to get to them will suggest itself? Not without struggle, not without twists and turns, not that there aren't some times when the road might seem hard to see, or that you may find yourself stuck again, for an annoying while. But what are the other options?

It would be great if you could find a therapist like that, someone you actually liked, who saw things your way AND also a little different, so that you could both feel like you were understood and that there could be some boadening of your perspective.

I never found a therapist like that for me. I did find one, or some, with whom I reenacted the dynamics of trauma from my family of origin, and eventually that triggered or touched the core "hurt". What to do at that point, though, therapy didn't have any answers for.

Yes, stress "naturally" can make one selfish and self-absorbed with one's own protection, one's own needs, etc. And. . .that can have negative side effects on social relationships. What to do about all this, how to "improve", move on, etc.? I don't have much of an answer. Just my best wishes and support for you continuing to try, keeping on keeping on.

[seeker33]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

You may not be wrong.
I once made a thread about being compensated for damage done to me by someone who was supposed to care for me. I did not have any intent to abuse, but to get what is right for me
The therapist with whom I talked about this completely disregarded the possibility that I have gone through abuse, and instead chose to look at me in a dismissive manner - "Why do you think you deserved to be compensated?", she asked. I told her and she asked again, regardless if that value of mine has anything to do with people or not. So I told her about my skills. I acted compliantly, I do not see where this is my problem. The therapist after some time asked the same question, "Why do you think you deserve that?", as if I've said nothing until now. They were the same therapist with the sarcastic empathetic nod. I left

I see how frustrating this must have been for you.
I can't write more as I don't know what exactly happened there and I don't even think it's important to analyse it at the moment. What I think is important is that the incident illustrates what others here are saying. That it seems you've got some problems with accepting different opinions and interpret them as attack.

Don't get mé wrong, I have that as well, often I feel that the person with a different opinion or constructive criticism hates me and I feel I need to protect myself. It comes from my childhood.

The point of the therapy might be working on this. On realising that different opinion doesn't mean attack or hate. Rather, thinking about different perspectives might be the way to improvement. It doesn't automatically mean you're giving up or that you're being "dominated" by others.

It seem rather surprising and disappointing that I come off as scary or attacking.
And when here today said they get frustrated when I seem to insist on seeing everything only my way, well, it makes me wonder
Sometimes when going through harsh events, it's hard to explain what happened, what is the pain that has been caused. So I started getting increasingly frustrated in general.
The abusive therapist I went to would say "Not all that anger has to do with your parents" and would try to unravel what happened. Um... except... they wouldn't really do that - they would say "we have to go forward", they would call a person who attacked me "dominant" and want me to deal with it in an extremely submissive way, would scold me and belittle me in the manner that I refuse to do so. They would crush me just so they can put me in a destroyed position enough to need the therapist. I had to crawl with blood in order to get out of there. I saw their more diminished smile after I managed to make it much more clearer that I intend not to stay. They were nothing but a selfish, self-centered and self-interested person. I saw it with my own eyes, my eyes have opened in that experience. It has cost me, and I am extremely disappointed

Then happened an abusive relationship in the academy which has severely cost my health. I really do not know how I'm going to develop in life.
That abusive therapist I went to, while saying I will be successful, would later on imply that I would fail to be a manager at a company. I felt betrayed when they contradicted themselves.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

. . .
And when here today said they get frustrated when I seem to insist on seeing everything only my way, well, it makes me wonder
. . .

Wonder about what?

Human beings are each unique beings, the way I see it, and we see things our own way. You see things your way, I get that. And I see what you are talking about frequently, and understand some of that, I think.

But I am a person separate from you, have had different experiences as well as some similar ones. That's just fact. And so even if I can understand how you see things, I am not necessarily going to see things the same way.

Hence my frustration in trying to relate to you. That's a statement about me, and my feelings of frustration, not a statement about you.

Originally Posted by here today

Wonder about what?

Human beings are each unique beings, the way I see it, and we see things our own way. You see things your way, I get that. And I see what you are talking about frequently, and understand some of that, I think.

But I am a person separate from you, have had different experiences as well as some similar ones. That's just fact. And so even if I can understand how you see things, I am not necessarily going to see things the same way.

Hence my frustration in trying to relate to you. That's a statement about me, and my feelings of frustration, not a statement about you.

Well, you were the person who understood me most

[here today]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

Well, you were the person who understood me most

Still do, I think. But not entirely, because I'm not you.

And I feel for what seems the awful feelings you seem stuck in -- and I don't have a way "out" to tell you about.

I'm "sort of" getting out now, maybe -- time will tell. Would you like me to tell you about what seems to be working, maybe, for me? Some -- maybe most -- I just lucked into.

Originally Posted by here today

Still do, I think. But not entirely, because I'm not you.

And I feel for what seems the awful feelings you seem stuck in -- and I don't have a way "out" to tell you about.

I'm "sort of" getting out now, maybe -- time will tell. Would you like me to tell you about what seems to be working, maybe, for me? Some -- maybe most -- I just lucked into.

No, I'd rather have things my way for the time being

[Myrto]

Some of the responses on this thread are like high school: either you're a popular poster and nobody will challenge you and everyobdy will support you even if it's super unhealthy (and boy do I think this forum often ends up being an echo chamber) or you're not popular and you will get **** on. Which is what is happening to the OP. To the OP: I don't find you scary at all (what a bizarre comment) and I think it's very common to find therapy and therapists frustrating. Personally I found it mostly useless. Are there other things you could do besides therapy that would help you? Therapy is not the only way.

[Salmon77]

One thing I notice about the list in the OP is that a lot of it depends on perceptions about the T's emotions, like you perceive the T to be trying to dominate, that their empathy is fake or their smile is sarcastic, etc. But these are perceptions/interpretations of the T's behavior that may or may not be correct. You might have a tendency (as I do) to perceive people as feeling negatively toward you when they actually do not, if you have been treated badly in the past or if you feel badly about yourself.

Another thing—it seems like if you understand therapy or what the therapist is "doing," you think that means therapy can't be effective. I don't think this is true. Why not go along with the T's "manipulations" so to speak and see what happens?

[here today]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

No, I'd rather have things my way for the time being

OK, then, your choice.

Guys... I think I have come to the problem. I'll go think it through for now. Love you guys <3

Originally Posted by Myrto

Some of the responses on this thread are like high school: either you're a popular poster and nobody will challenge you and everyobdy will support you even if it's super unhealthy (and boy do I think this forum often ends up being an echo chamber) or you're not popular and you will get **** on. Which is what is happening to the OP. To the OP: I don't find you scary at all (what a bizarre comment) and I think it's very common to find therapy and therapists frustrating. Personally I found it mostly useless. Are there other things you could do besides therapy that would help you? Therapy is not the only way.

This attitude worries me. Because I don't come here to be put **** on. I am coming here for support. If members put **** on others then the safety of this place is in great question

I think I'm gonna take my leave. I can point on some topics I expected support from but instead got nothing but anger projection when all I wanted was to get better. My problem was not being able to stand up rightly to that anger. The better question is - does one really need to stand up to themselves in a support forum?!
I've had enough of this, I am extremely frustrated with some of the support I got here! However I still appreciate those who understood me and supported me along the way, too

Farewell. It's been a long rollercoaster ride. Next time however, I will be the driver. Goodbye

[here today]

I understand that you want to be the driver -- but here's a thought/idea that you can take or leave.

It's from the 12-step groups, the notion of "Take what you like and leave the rest."

That can also apply to what you accept about what other people have to say. Just an idea, one that I find useful. I understand that you may not.

[seeker33]

I'm sorry you feel this way. I wish you all the best and I mean it. I hope you'll find your peace and support you need.

[ZEN218]

I feel that the parental/authority type figures in your very early life really did a bad number on you ( i can relate ) & im sorry for that. That said, IDK if there is a therapist alive or even beyond that who has a chance passing your checks & balances.

Id say your best chance is to try to engage even if the therapist cant avoid your red flag system. I feel that you are probably self-aware to a point that you can at least consider the idea that you may be responsible for being unrealistic and/or unreasonable.

[here today]

Originally Posted by ZEN218

I feel that the parental/authority type figures in your very early life really did a bad number on you ( i can relate ) & im sorry for that. That said, IDK if there is a therapist alive or even beyond that who has a chance passing your checks & balances.

Id say your best chance is to try to engage even if the therapist cant avoid your red flag system. I feel that you are probably self-aware to a point that you can at least consider the idea that you may be responsible for being unrealistic and/or unreasonable.

Or, even if not unrealistic or unreasonable -- if that's the way that therapists are, and are going to be, and it seems to you like a good idea to try to get help for yourself somewhere, someway, and therapy is the best thing you know of to even try -- then, it may be annoying as heck but still better than nothing?? And putting up with the annoyances could be, well, at least kind of interesting or entertaining or informative sometimes?

That said, I don't go to therapy anymore. Life sucks, and then . . . But I'm not entirely sure that my life will continue to suck, even as old as I am, and so. . .keeping on, keeping on, I never know for sure what will happen. Or, maybe, what I'll luck into learning how to make happen for the better.