[chaotic13]

Today I am finding that my mind is on a hamster wheel going around-n-around. Actually its more like 3-4 wheels, I keep jumping from one to the other. Over this break, I've been thinking a lot about therapy. Therapy has definitely help me to move out of a depressed state of mind, but I'm wondering should I end it? Do I need it. Do I want it? Is it really helping me or just making me over think and question everything to the point my head hurts?

Today I'm trying to answer the question--When do you say, I've gotten all I can from therapy and its time to stop?

I can see where its helped me but I'm feeling like I'm at a dead end.
1. My marriage sucks. Fortunately/Unfortunately therapy has helped me figure out that I can't fix it no matter how hard I try unless my husband wants to change.

2. The verbal attacks affect me more than I realized. Therapy is not going to stop them, only I can stand up for myself and protect my kids.

3. My inability to feel passion empathy for my husband has more to do with the current situation and lack of emotional awareness than my inability feel these emotions. Although therapy has help me be more aware of my emotions, it really can't help the situation with my husband.

4. My childhood was abusive and I've been well trained to not trust, not feel, and not speak. Therapy has only succeeded in making me feel guilty and remorseful when I push people away. Unfortunately I still push people away so, I don't really see the positive side of discovering these feelings.

5. Therapy has awakened cravings for deeper more intimate relationship with others. Which would be OK if I was surrounded by healthy compassionate people. Unfortunately, I really don't have people to safely relate this way to. My new yearnings are going unfulfilled which is actually making me feel more unhappy not less. Now I'm feeling needy and fearful that I may develop an unhealthy attachment to therapy or my therapist. Don't really see the positive side of discovering these feelings.

I may be just in a pessimistic mood today but I really questioning the efficacy of future therapy today.

How do you decide if its appropriate to continue in therapy or if you've reached a point of diminished return?

[MissCharlotte]

Mckell,

Maybe it's time to decide to act on some of these things? It sounds like you have decided that you are at a standstill in your therapy--and you might be. But it also seems like you have some choices to make. Your list seems like it would provide fodder for many sessions and allow for an even-deeper exploration of motivation/self. But that will only happen if you want it to, and you will only get returns if you want them.

Good luck.

i dunno sweetie. You have had some tough questions about this all along. How do you feel about having an open discussion directly with your T about this? If you have any faith at all about how ethical he/she is then you know that they job is to help you, not to build customers. i don't know how your relationship is.. but maybe this is a good point to just take a huge risk and lay all of this out there.

a remember, therapy isn't so finite... if you have things which could be worked on, which you do describe, but feel it's not the right time, then take a therapy break. It doesn't have to be do it or don't do it ever..unless you want that.

in the voicemail my T left for me for the holidays he answered some questions i asked. One was for him to tell me (again) that he wasn't going anywhere... but this time i wanted him to tell me why not. Without giving his whole answer, he said that if i ever said i needed a break or didn't want to work on anything anymore then he would respect that.

maybe your T would be honest about what he/she thinks you should do.

[sunrise]

It sounds like you have a lot of issues in your life to work on. Would it be helpful to have the support of a therapist as you work on them? Or can you do it without a T's support, on your own, or with the support of friends and family? For example, now that you know your marriage sucks, do you know what you will do it about it? Could a therapist help you explore that, make a decision, and take action? For the verbal abuse, could a T help you practice techniques of setting boundaries and not taking the abuse anymore? For #5, could T offer support as you seek to add people to your life who are healthy and compassionate?

I think there is so much to work on there. But it is up to you to decide if T can help you with all those issues or not. I also worry about #4 and how you say you push people away. Is your contemplating ending therapy a way of pushing your T away and repeating an old pattern?

I think you have a lot here to discuss with your T, if you still want to work with him.

[chaotic13]

Thanks Sister, Fluff, and Sunrise. I know ultimately it is up to me when to stop. I was just wondering if divine insight hits you and you just know its time to stop because it feels right. Or if stopping therapy tends to be one of those decisions that you question from time to time.

Fluffy, you're right I have been continually questioning what I'm doing in therapy (probably because I’m deranged). My husband knew about my last session because I was off work and had to explain where I was going. He immediately challenged why I was going, that I did need that crap, and I needed to watch what I told “those people”. I didn’t inform him that I was going to therapy on a regular basis—mainly for this very reason. Intellectually I know this is part of his objection is simply him attempting to control and keep me isolated. I did a good job of simply saying, “ I'm going for me and I don't have to explain myself.” Although I didn't play his game, his attack hit the mark with regard to making me doubt myself and my decision to keep going. I spoke to my T about this exchange and that I was questioning therapy. She gave her perspective as to why she thought my husband was so against me going to therapy. As for therapy, she said I seem to be thinking through things on my own but that I appear to be benefiting from talking through my problem solving.
Sunrise, part of me is afraid that my questioning therapy is another avoidance tactic. I’m feeling the heat and I don’t like it. In the last session I encountered another period of the dreaded silence. Damn I hate those long pauses! She doesn’t make eye contact and simply sits and shuffles papers and waits for me to answer. Even worse the “I don’t know” and “people” aren’t good enough to break the silence anymore. I know she is just trying to do her job and help me, but it drives me nuts. I guess I am just to the point of-- if I’m going to continue to withhold what’s bothering me, then why go at all. I know the ball is in my court. I haven’t mentioned anything about my fear of dependency.

Guess the bottom line is I’m unhappy but able to fully functioning now. Is simply being unhappy and wanting to explore who I am reason enough to seek therapy and bill my medical insurance?

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell13 said:
I know ultimately it is up to me when to stop. I was just wondering if divine insight hits you and you just know its time to stop because it feels right. Or if stopping therapy tends to be one of those decisions that you question from time to time.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Well, I did quit therapy with my first therapist and I didn't give it much thought at all. And I didn't ever question it or wish I hadn't quit. I do now wish I had quit more gracefully as she had been helpful to me. What happened was I just stopped going. I called to cancel my appointment the following week. She called back to reschedule and I told her I would call her to reschedule when I had my calendar or some such balderdash. I never called back and she did not contact me either. End of therapy. I quit with her because she was no longer helping and I felt I had experienced all she had to offer--exhausted her therapeutic skill set. I was getting nowhere in therapy and was profoundly stuck. I guess I realized I was never going to move further with her approach. I just wish now that I had said a proper good-bye; it was kind of rude of me to just never go back. It sounds to me like you are being much more thoughtful about whether to quit, and that is not a bad thing.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I guess I am just to the point of-- if I’m going to continue to withhold what’s bothering me, then why go at all. I know the ball is in my court.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I think this is very insightful of you, mckell. Indeed, why are you there if you are not going to deal with this important issue? I understand how you could be frustrated with yourself for continuing to go to therapy but not dealing with this. It's also interesting that you mentioned that your insurance pays for therapy. My insurance does not pay for my current therapist, it is 100% out of pocket. There is a high monetary value on that therapy hour each week and d**med if I am going to be wasting my own money not dealing with my issues and getting the most out of that hour that I can. I think if my insurance paid, I would be less motivated to work hard as it wouldn't be costing me so much. But that's part of who I am. I am very frugal and hate to waste money, so I am working very hard in therapy to get the most bang for my buck. Does that make sense?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Is simply being unhappy and wanting to explore who I am reason enough to seek therapy and bill my medical insurance?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Yes, it's reason enough to seek therapy. It's a very good reason! I can't answer the insurance question. Has your reason for seeking therapy changed recently? Before, were you in therapy for a different reason than "exploring who you are and being unhappy"?

[tulips30]

Mckell,

You do raise a reasonable, well thought-out list. A lot to consider and no "simple" yes or no. I want to share with you the fact that I had a similar experience this past spring. I had been seeing a new T for appx.9 months after a difficult, sudden termination with my previous t. I had some serious issues to work on, but was very wary of the things you mention. Specifically, the fear of dependence on the therapy & therapist. Also, my husband was making comments that were beginning to make me question continuing therapy. I was uncertain and not at all sure what to do. I kept wondering, like you.......When do you stop?

After discussiong this with T, who seemed taken aback, I made no more appointments. My T sent me a kind e-mail stating that he would always be there and I knew where to find him. After 2 months, I began to really feel a negative difference in my life and the way I was handling things. I realized that I was missing my sessions and I decided to see him again. He was sooo kind and happy to see me. I think Fluff is correct. Taking a break or some time to think doesn't mean that you have closed the door. It doesn't have to be a forever decison. Thinking of it that way may help you to decide.

Tulips

[Mouse_]

Stopping can take as much time as the original therapy. Do you mean you want to walk right now? If so then maybe your resisting something? Talk in T about it, this is what therapy is for, to work through our resistences.

[MissCharlotte]

((McKell))

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Guess the bottom line is I’m unhappy but able to fully functioning now. Is simply being unhappy and wanting to explore who I am reason enough to seek therapy and bill my medical insurance?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

YES YES YES

YOU are worth it!!!

Functioning is fine. Becoming whole is what you are worth. We are entitled to wholeness...the wholeness that was ours to begin with.

it's funny, sunrise quoted exactly the same sentence i was going to...

" Is simply being unhappy and wanting to explore who I am reason enough to seek therapy and bill my medical insurance? "

for one thing, when is being unhappy simple? i don't know why you began therapy but i started due to crisis and decided i wanted to keep going after this passes because i want to stop being unhappy. i want my life to be fulfilling. i dont have healthy people around me but i can learn to be happy despite that and when i meet healthier people i'll be able to interact as a healthy person as well and not one of the unhealthy ones they need to avoid.

isn't happiness what we seek all our lives?

have you asked yourself if you are actually afraid of happiness? it sounds silly, but consider it. i firmly believe more people are afraid of success than failure. example: what if you do alllll this work, struggle ssooooo hard, and find out you are as empty as you believe you are, or the failure, or whatever thing you believe? Do you see what i mean? Sometimes it's easier to not try so we can hold onto that belief that we could have succeeded, than to try and take the chance or failing anyway.

i am in no way suggesting your decision should be to continue or not. Just throwing things out there.

your husband's reaction seem pretty coincidental. Is it really the case that his words emphasized your own doubts? Or were those doubts there because you knew he would feel that way? Are they more his doubts or your own? Have his feelings crept into your mind than you'd like? i ask partially just to just throw out a question, but partially because when i started i just couldn't get at certain things because i was so enmeshed in my H's way of thinking.

i understand the fear and functionality part... i was asking myself the same question not long ago... i knew i had reached a point that i could not just easily walk away if i continued. Therapy has peaks and plateaus like that... you are at a point at which to move forward requires more trust, more openness, more risk, it would be another uphill climb. It would become hard again.

you know that no one can tell you what you should do... if you stop i think you are at a break point moreso than an endpoint... because you are going back and forth. i really do believe that when you are ready to just stop you feel more certain.

[chaotic13]

WOW! You gals are great! Who needs therapy :-)

Sunrise, I think I definitely want to end therapy face-to-face not by just not showing up anymore. Hopefully, I'll be brave enough to actually do it that way. As for getting the biggest bang for my buck.. Absolutely, I am also the type of person who does not like to waste my time. That's why internally I am pressuring myself to decide to either stay and ENGAGE or quit and be done with it.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Has your reason for seeking therapy changed recently?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I think so! Basically the crisis that brought me to therapy to begin with has been brought to a tolerable point. Now I am wanting to move towards a life that is more than just existing. If I continue I may become the sole focus and benefactor, not my kids or my marriage. I really have trouble doing something strictly for myself. I know its dumb but I feel guilty for some reason.

Sister, Thanks for you affirmation that we are entitled to happiness. I say the same to the others; but back off when pursuing it for myself.

Fluff, </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
“i'll be able to interact as a healthy person as well and not one of the unhealthy ones they need to avoid.”

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> What a great statement.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Have you asked yourself if you are actually afraid of happiness?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
YES, I am afraid of failure and that I will not like what I discover. I’ve already discovered guilt and those feelings are not all that great. Denying what I want is easier than acknowledging it and then having to act on that knowledge.

Tulips, thanks for sharing that you fear dependency also. I'm really afraid that if I take that risk and lay it all out there, I'll become attached to this therapeutic relationship and start to rely on it. This scares me the most. Maybe this whole exercise is rationality comes down to one core irrational fear.

you know... i hate to tell you this, but you won't ever be able to go back to what things were before you ever started. Once insight is planted it grows on its own as well as in therapy. i had that happen... ditched by the person who started me on this road. My way of thinking had changed and there was no stopping it. You will now discover feelings and thoughts and memories on your own. These things you fear may come to the surface anyway.

that isn't a call to stay in therapy, just telling you my experience... it's why i never tell someone to start therapy.. i tell them they need to want to.

[(JD)]

and... if you have to ask if it's time to stop, it probably isn't yet?

[chaotic13]

Fluff said </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Once insight is planted it grows on its own as well as in therapy....My way of thinking had changed and there was no stopping it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I can’t believe you made this statement at this very point. I was just at a party last night and at one point the topics of conversation shifted to the purpose of higher education. There were only 4 of us chatting but we came from very different backgrounds and had very different ideas about education. At one point I mentioned that I believed that learning was not just about acquiring new skills. Although skills and content knowledge are important, learning is also about gaining new insight that profoundly affects how one sees the world and themselves. In some cases these new insights can elicit a cascade effect that transforms a person into someone totally different.

Therapy has had that type of affect on me. My T has successfully planted some seeds of insight that, given where I am in my life experience, have taken root. The affects of this insight has brought into question many other previously held beliefs and has create turmoil as I try to assess who I am now and who I want to be. Deep down inside I know there is no stopping it—denial is no longer possible.

Sky you are probably right if I am going back and forth on whether to stay or go, then I should continue until the best option becomes clearer. I think in creating this post I was searching for some tangible reasons to continue therapy and learn more about myself. My original crisis provided that-- the situation at home was intolerable, it was hurting my children, it was escalating and I needed to do something. Where I’m at now seems grayer, less pressing, and more about me as an individual. For some reason it’s harder for me to justify that I am worth it, especially when I am feeling a bit down and frustrated. I don’t know if that makes sense or not.

now it's my turn.. i can't believe you just said that... it makes PERFECT sense. i am in that sort of grey place as well. i mean, i still have a very complicated life crisis situation, but it is ongoing and very slow to change... there is only so much we can do at any given time... and right now (fingers crossed) nothing dramatic is happening. So we go back and forth... with a lot of sessions now being about just me.. as me. i dont like it much.

i have trouble justifying it too.

[pachyderm]

Great thread, actually. My opinion.

[(JD)]

mckell that makes perfect sense, in that you are feeling unworthy of the caring the T is giving you through this.
When you are "finished" with therapy (at least for "this" issue) you will know it. Even so, you can always leave for a few weeks and see how that works for you...with the agreement to be able to return.

[winterbaby]

I think when it's time to quit, we've come to a place where we feel we can cope well enough on our own or with other support rather than the support of the therapist. It's as simple as that and as complex as that. Or if we start thinking about what else we could be doing in that timeslot other than therapy, that's usually a good sign too. Reading your post I'd let your T know how you are feeling and see what they have to say.

[ECHOES]

Life is complex and changes all the time.

We don't have to be in crisis to benefit from therapy.

Being out of crisis can free up our minds, relax our minds, and open up new ways to explore and learn about ourselves.

Some people have a fear of feeling better because they think they won't be able to continue therapy. Thank goodness it doesn't work that way.

Fear of getting better is an issue I talked about in therapy as well as that I felt a need to have a crisis to talk about at every session. When she so kindly clarified that for me, therapy became a little easier for me. I no longer have the agonizing and panicky pre-session anxiety about the session itself. I go and what comes up comes up. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes have speciific things I want to talk about because I do, but when I don't have anything specific in mind it's now okay to just relax about it. We'll talk and what comes up comes up. What comes up in fact, is what's important. That's how it works.

I'm too new to this therapy with this therapist (10 months) to imagine the end of therapy. So... I don't.

[MissCharlotte]

Hi Echoes,

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Some people have a fear of feeling better because they think they won't be able to continue therapy. Thank goodness it doesn't work that way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You know, I think I am one of those people. I am continually thinking, "Okay, I'm better now, I suppose therapy will end soon." I also think sometimes that T wonders what the heck I'm moaning about, that I need to leave the past in the past. These are fleeting thoughts that I shove aside when they arise.

Of course, this is despite the fact that intellectually I know it doesn't work that way. And, despite the fact that T himself said to me it is when we are feeling better that we can accomplish some good work in therapy.

Go figure.

Peace

[chaotic13]

Thanks Sky, Winterbaby, and Echoes for you insights.

Sky now that you mention it I am definitely feeling like I don't deserve her attention. I think that's what freaked me out the most when I started was having someone give me their undivided attention for an hour every two weeks. I think I've always felt like that with friends, teachers, coaches, etc. luckily I hide it well and don't seem overtly insecure.

I'm hoping I'll know when the time is right. Everything about therapy has just been so unexpected and different, I'm finding it hard to assume anything. I guess I'm wondering if she is sitting there waiting for be to figure out that I'm done.

Echoes, I really relate to the stress of needing a crisis to talk about for every session. I'm get anxious and want specific topics ready or goals in mind for each session. For me I also seem to only think stuff that relates directly to my kids or my relationship with my husband are worthy of discussion. I started therapy to help my kids and I feel weird talking about stuff that is about me only. Is anyone else like that? Is that like another screwed up defense mechanism or avoidance technique?

Now that I think about it, when I spoke about some issues from my past they only surfaced because she asked a direct question about something. I couldn't answer honestly without disclosing it.

Now that I wrote that I'm asking WHY am I like that? I don't feel guilty about buying myself clothes or getting my hair cut. Why do I feel bad about making my individual therapy about me and not about helping other family members??? I'm fricked up!

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sister said:
I also think sometimes that T wonders what the heck I'm moaning about, that I need to leave the past in the past.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

OMG, this is exactly what I feel like! Only I haven't figure out how to push these thoughts aside and talk any about it anyway.

[MissCharlotte]

Hey McKell,

Do you think this is some kind of resistance?

Yikes!!

[chaotic13]

Hmmm...I don't know very much about resistance. I still find discussing personal stuff incredibly difficult and tend not to speak about things without thinking about them first. A lot of things surface after a session and I end up kicking them around in my head and writing them in my personal journal but not really talking about them. Not sure if this is considered resistance or not. However, my overall anxiety has subsided quite a bit lately. Maybe the fact that I am no longer as hyper in the sessions is why I'm thinking about discontinuing therapy.

[Perna]

My T and I terminated therapy over a 14 month period and the whole period was very intense but toward the end one becomes almost bored because everything one needed to address has been addressed. Some things haven't necessarily been resolved but how to address them further if one wants to on one's own has been learned.

I loved going to therapy (was in therapy 1996-2005) and the intensity of the termination period was partially because I really enjoyed working on myself and was good at it :-) I miss my therapist as a "friend" and helper, that's a long time (and I'd seen her for 9 years previously in the 1970's and 80's so "knew" her over a 30 year period, more than half my life and almost longer than I knew my "problems") to be working so intensely with someone.

So, if I had to decide when to stop going again it would be when I was "bored" and felt that I had gotten all that I possibly could get from therapy. I know now too, that if one leaves therapy one can often go back and start again. That would have been a really good thing to know the first time my T and I terminated in 1987. I wasn't ready to terminate then but was moving and changing jobs and whole lifestyles so had to choose between therapy and "life". It all came out extremely well and my experiences in all phases have helped me to this day and I anticipate, will into the future.