[Quietmind 2]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

I agree with Rive and want to add that relationally oriented therapy in particular has a reasonably high risk of going terribly wrong, even in the best of circumstances. My T had/has a ton of training, extensive supervision, and a circle of supportive colleagues and she still injured me pretty badly with a mistake at one point. It's messy, complicated stuff that requires the therapist to be well-trained, emotionally aware, and professionally supported. In a way, Dr. T is doing right by you by refusing to go beyond the scope of his practice. The little bits of conflict that have happened around relationally oriented concepts is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the pain this kind of thing can unleash.

Mhm, and I'd like to add that I feel there's ethical ways for a therapist to tell a client they need more than what the therapist can offer, even if it hurts the client to hear that.

That includes appropriate referrals if they can't or don't want to train to expand their scope of practice, in order to become what the client needs.

Not that I'm completely agreeing with Dr T, because I feel there's probably better ways for him to be less...shaming...?

My first therapist was harmful in just a handful of sessions in ways I still struggle with today, but the best thing he did for me was to refer me on, second thing being that he told me why although he kept it vague.

He said I needed a higher level of care due to my psychological and emotional issues, and made a referral.

My subsequent therapist was a clinical psychologist who also recognised the limit of her scope of practice.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Do you have clear defined reasons for therapy and are you working on those with this guy and getting anywhere or not? He isn't a psychodynamic therapist from what you have said so expecting him to act like one seems to me like beating your head against a wall. I understand where he is coming from on this sort of thing even though I doubt I could tolerate him for more than 2 minutes for other reasons.

Thanks, these are good things to consider. There are things he's really helped me with, though I feel like the pandemic messed with some of that. I was starting to list things, but pretty sure you weren't looking for a list--more suggesting that I consider what my therapy goals are whether he's actually helping me with them.


I imagine the mere fact that he's a therapist is one of the reasons you wouldn't be able to tolerate him. I could think of at least a half-dozen more, too.

[stopdog]

I think he is an *** for the insistence on dr. Which I would only agree to if he was going to call me by Ms x but probably not even then because I simply wouldn't tolerate such pomposity from a mere therapist

[LonesomeTonight]

Had a 30-minute extra session with Dr. T this morning (he regularly works Sunday mornings). It helped, but I'm still processing some of what he said.

Dr. T: "What did you want to talk about?"

Me [starting to cry]: "I guess...so I was in a lot of distress Friday night, just feeling really bad about the session. And stuck in a way, because I wanted to email, but felt like I couldn't, that it would only make things worse with you, that you'd be like, 'What are you doing, LT???'

He said that his level of irritation was actually very minor. And he'd tried to make it clear. Me: "But it didn't feel that way. When you asked me why I sent the Thursday email (after we'd just had a discussion about my text check-ins being irritating), it felt like you was saying, 'Why would you send that email? Are you a f---ing idiot?'" He asked if I realized my tone and words were much harsher than what he'd used. I said yes, but that it's how it felt to me. He said he had intentionally tried to be as gentle as possible all session. Me: "Well...your tone may have been harsher than you thought." Dr. T: "It may have been. I can't hear myself."

Dr. T: "I'm not sure how to say this." He took off his glasses and put his hand to his forehead, clearly thinking. Me: "I'm sorry." Dr. T: "You don't even know what I'm going to say!" Me: "I know, I'm just preparing myself for something like, 'This isn't how I do therapy, so...'"

Dr. T: "That's not what I was going to say. I'm not sure if this will come out wrong. So I'm just going to say it. I think it's rather ironic that you're an editor. Because I find it to be very difficult to give you any sort of 'redirection' or...this might sound harsher than I mean it--criticism." Me: "Feedback?" Dr. T: "OK, let's say 'feedback.' But it's difficult because even something really minor sends you into this dark place." I said I knew that was an issue for me and has been in my outside life, too. And how it's something we should work on in there.

He said the editor part was ironic because my job is to redirect people's writing, but I have trouble being redirected myself. I said I thought they were different things, plus it's not like I tend to work directly with the authors, just make corrections to the work. (It occurs to me just now that I also would never tell the authors they have "irritated" me, no matter how bad the writing was!)

I went back to talking about Friday night. I said that afternoon, I had to take D to get her Covid booster, so it was like I had to function. But not long after I got home, I totally crashed. That I was talking to friends and trying other coping mechanisms, like music, but it wasn't really helping. And the thing about not feeling I could email.

Possible trigger:

Me: "And I was really upset with myself and feeling all this self-loathing. So...I ended up doing some minor SH. It had been a long time since I'd done that." Dr. T [compassionately]: "I'm sorry that happened." Me: "Thanks."

We talked about how I've been under a lot of stress lately. Dr. T: "It sounds like you're just exhausted, that you don't have reserves left." Me: "Yes. And it makes me think of how you'd said you were trying to give me grace during this period because I'm stressed. But I wondered: What would it have looked like had you *not* given me grace? Would you have terminated me? Taken away email privileges? Yelled at me?"

Dr. T: "I did give you grace, up until I realized the check-in texts (confirming in-person that day) had become a more regular thing. But remember, they were just a minor irritation."

Dr. T: "The message I want get across to you is that people irritate each other all the time. It's inevitable. For example, my wife and son have already irritated me this morning, and I've probably irritated them threefold. But it's not the end of the world."

Me: "I still prefer to try to avoid irritating people." Dr. T: "I know that--you probably try harder to avoid it than any other person in [our state]. But I don't want you to get the message that you should try to avoid irritating people. But that it's going to happen, and it's OK that it does."

I said how I'd looked back at my emails, like when the increased contact started. And it coincided almost exactly with when we got the bad assessment results for D. I said how he's given me so much support with that, and I feared having it go away. So anything that threatens the relationship or our sessions worries me. Me: "For example, the tornado warning Friday, with your wife calling to ask you to leave the session. Thanks for staying in here with me, by the way."

We also had a discussion about reassurance that included his saying he does reassure me, but that it's probably not as strong as what I want.

I said I knew we had to stop, that maybe we could continue the conversation a bit tomorrow--confirmed the time and in person. Me: "So, thanks for meeting with me today. Bye." Dr. T: "Bye."

[ElectricManatee]

It's super weird how much he doesn't seem to understand trauma. Like, even a non-therapist would probably have a better understanding. If you take any other person who experienced similar developmental trauma in [your state], they are likely to respond in a similar way. I think hearing that your reaction is valid and makes total sense in the context of your life and history would be way more helpful. It's super weird that telling you that people get irritated and they get over it is supposed to heal anything that's causing the sensitivity in the first place??

How do you feel about this? Was it comforting or helpful or frustrating or baffling or....?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

It's super weird how much he doesn't seem to understand trauma. Like, even a non-therapist would probably have a better understanding. If you take any other person who experienced similar developmental trauma in [your state], they are likely to respond in a similar way. I think hearing that your reaction is valid and makes total sense in the context of your life and history would be way more helpful. It's super weird that telling you that people get irritated and they get over it is supposed to heal anything that's causing the sensitivity in the first place??

How do you feel about this? Was it comforting or helpful or frustrating or baffling or....?

Ha, I literally just replied to your PM from the other day, but will say something else here.

I also don't understand this. I left this one part out, as it was so long. But with the sensitivity to being irritating, I said, "I think this is stuff from the past." And he said, "Is it though? It feels very much in the present for me." To which I said, "Yes, but the fears are from things that happened in past relationships and messages I got from my mom." He said he guessed that was maybe part of it.

I was saying to a friend earlier, it's like he thinks if he tells me enough times that he's irritated and then things are OK, I will suddenly just accept it, without other work being done on it. Like some sort of exposure therapy. But I don't think it works quite that way? At least, not without some sort of plan (like, there's exposure and response therapy for OCD, but that has very specific steps to it, going from least to most distressing--I did a bit of that that with ex-T at one point).

It also felt like he was being critical of how my brain works, both Friday and today. Maybe what he meant was, "Ugh, it sucks that your brain works that way, I'm sorry," but he said things like, "Wow, you go right to the worst possible outcome!" Like, right, this is why I'm in therapy! It reminds me of ex-T saying, related to my OCD and ex-MC, "This is as obsessive as it gets!" Right, yes, I have OCD. You supposedly have training specifically in that!!! (ex-T, not Dr. T) Would a dermatologist be like, "Wow, your skin is really messed up!"

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I'm not sitting here crying or hating myself like Friday night. But I'm not feeling that great about Dr. T either. I'm not sure he really understands. He's like, "I irritate people all the time, whatever." He seems mystified by why it bothers me so much, if it's a "minor irritation." I also really don't recall him including the "minor" part in either the thing two Fridays ago (about the in-person check-in texts) or this past Friday (the email). It's like after the fact, he's saying, "Why are you making such a big deal about this? It's just a minor thing."

So I think in response to "Was it comforting or helpful or frustrating or baffling or....?" I would have to say "all of the above."

[stopdog]

I understand what he is saying and I think he is right about how he can't say anything even remotely non-cuddly without a high likelihood of out of proportion upsettness it creates. People get irritated with each other and get over it all the time. But one can't walk on eggshells around someone either. I understand him being mystified.
Isn't he mainly a sports psychologist - trying to get athletes over a mental block or to have confidence seems a very different skill set than the one Lt is looking for.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I understand what he is saying and I think he is right about how he can't say anything even remotely non-cuddly without a high likelihood of out of proportion upsettness it creates. People get irritated with each other and get over it all the time. But one can't walk on eggshells around someone either.

Thanks, I do understand his point there--and yours. As I need to be able to deal with criticism, feedback, etc. in other areas of my life. But it also doesn't seem like he has suggestions on how to better deal with it. Just saying something is fine and normal is clearly not enough for me. Perhaps he has some other methods/suggestions? Or we need to spend more time examining the root cause of why I'm so sensitive to this?

[stopdog]

I never really saw the point of examining the root cause of anything. I usually don't care in all honesty.
So to me

Therapist = this sounds like old stuff from your mother
Me: Well Duh -but wtf - what difference does it make?
Therapist: What do you think?
Me: I don't think makes any difference at all.
Therapist and me = THE END

But
It may be that part of it is seeing irritation happen from someone isn't fatal in general or fatal to that relationship. You and your husband get irritated with each other. You and your daughter -= it isn't fatal to the relationship. The same is true of this guy and you - it isn't fatal on either side.

Plus if he actually does have mostly athletes of some sort = they are often not crushed by clear non-emotional direction - they hire him for that. I find that true of students I have who are athletes - I love to get athletes and theatre people -they have dealt with losing, criticism of response, and competition and I don't often upset them. Some of the other students I just tell to drop my class because I am never going to be the hand holder they want.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I never really saw the point of examining the root cause of anything. I usually don't care in all honesty.
So to me

Therapist = this sounds like old stuff from your mother
Me: Well Duh -but wtf - what difference does it make?
Therapist: What do you think?
Me: I don't think makes any difference at all.
Therapist and me = THE END

But
It may be that part of it is seeing irritation happen from someone isn't fatal in general or fatal to that relationship. You and your husband get irritated with each other. You and your daughter -= it isn't fatal to the relationship. The same is true of this guy and you - it isn't fatal on either side.

Plus if he actually does have mostly athletes of some sort = they are often not crushed by clear non-emotional direction - they hire him for that. I find that true of students I have who are athletes - I love to get athletes and theatre people -they have dealt with losing, criticism of response, and competition and I don't often upset them. Some of the other students I just tell to drop my class because I am never going to be the hand holder they want.

Some good points here, too. See, I do like knowing the root cause.

But the concept of thinking of all the people I have irritated and how many of them are still around is another potentially helpful perspective on this. I did tell Dr. T today that I'm sure I irritate H all the time, and he's still around after like 16 years. Though each of us choose our battles on when we mention irritating things to each other. I think if he told me every single time I irritated him (and vice versa), well, that wouldn't feel too good. I would say it feels like Dr. T is telling me every single time, but maybe there are other things he doesn't mention?

I get Dr. T's concept though, where he tries to say something as soon as it starts bothering him rather than waiting until it becomes a big thing. Because then it can lead to more of an explosion, like "You've been doing this for months! Why didn't you stop!"

And I hadn't thought of the athlete angle for him.

This one professor I had in health science grad school sounds a bit like you in terms of style--though it was a course everyone had to take, so no option to drop it. The good thing is, I had fair warning about how she'd be, so I was prepared. Though the first time I got a draft of a paper marked up by her, it was still jarring, as she was very blunt and wanted things written a very specific way. (The funny thing is, I copy edit science papers for a living, and many of the things she insisted on actually aren't part of their style, and some even contradict it.)

[stopdog]

For us, we are often very particular about having them follow the rules set -but the reason is not because it is the only way - it is because they have to learn to follow different rules from different jurisdictions =so we make them practice and the bigger part is that they figure out how to read and follow specific things because different jurisdictions and even different judges have different rules for appearing in front of them, filing papers etc.
Whining that judge X would accept something to Judge Y that does not -usually does not get an attorney very far.

[ruh roh]

I have come out of retirement to comment on this because it's something I've experienced, and maybe it will help you to hear.

Like others have said, this guy is not the therapist for the kind of work you're looking for from him. Those kind exist, and they would love to use the therapeutic relationship as a laboratory for seeing how you do life, but it's not just having someone hold all your feelings for you and be gushy. It's painful, hard work, fraught with shame attacks and fear. It's not all about what other people have done wrong. The past is a launching pad for how you experience life now. Some kinds of therapy help you get interested in finding ways as an adult to be more functional and happy with yourself. In relational therapy, you can show up and accuse the therapist of talking too harshly (maybe they did) or being dismissive (probably were)--they don't get defensive, though, they get curious and that makes you curious, and pretty soon you metabolize all those unbearable feelings and come up with a different approach for yourself--and you do that over and over and over and over again. The trust has to be there that they aren't going to walk away when you have a shame attack and freak out, that they're going to stick it out until you can put out the fires in your brain. It's looking deeply at how you experience things and being curious about that. Sure, you can look at the "why" but that gets old, especially once you know the why.

What I see in you is a need to manage other people's feelings, to make sure they don't feel too much or feel in a way that makes you uncomfortable--all coming from a need you may have to also not feel too much in yourself. That's something to be curious about and to wonder if it's working for you the way it did with a child brain. Would your life feel more doable if you let other people have their feelings and you learned to be okay with yours? That's the kind of thing digging deeper can start with, but your therapist doesn't work that way. His way can work for some. It's very practical.

I can clearly feel your pain when your therapist doesn't say or do the exact thing you need in order to feel okay. In all honesty though, that's a hamster wheel approach to life. Let's say he messed up and did virtual on a day that you thought was in person? That would feel awful--all kinds of feelings would flood you. Rejection, abandonment, fears of all kinds...lots of great material to work with if you had the right therapist. But I have a feeling with this therapist it would be weeks of you going over exactly what he did wrong and how it hurt you and was like your parents treatment of you (or fill in the blank). Instead, a relational therapist might lead you to finding ways to survive those feelings and carry on, to not be led by fears and fear of feeling things.


All that aside, you might do really well with EMDR. I've had great success with it, even though I was pretty sure it was going to be useless. My therapist (a different one than I had when I used to post here) is full on relational and I can't stand it. She says I limit what we can get to and that's right. I have specific things I'm there for, and that's all I want to work on. It's been really successful for me.


With EMDR, you could work on any number of triggering events--things with your daughter, your husband, past therapists, your mother (who is sounds like also tries to manage other people's feelings).


Anyway, just wanted to weigh in because I recognize your stuckness and want you to be able to live a great life, not being batted around by what other people say or do. It's very freeing.


btw, Have you watched Couples Therapy on Showtime? The therapist is a rare type--smart, bold and honest.

[JaneTennison1]

I haven't posted in a while but I wanted to comment on this. You sound like me LT. passionately defensive of someone and I'm sure you will keep going but I'm not sure this is serving you overall.

I know that when I obsess over the T relationship this much it is as a protection thing. I think about every aspect and what they said or did. It's like thinking about the emotions without feeling them. You are not building any distress tolerance but moreover just focusing on what everyone says or does. My therapy has moved from constant thinking about it to feeling, to discussing and processing the big stuff. The fact this T has increased response to text, emails and even increased your appointments at sometimes shows that he is not behaving ethically. You may defend him and say he has helped you but really this same wounded pattern is still happening and showing up. This would be a red flag that he is not the T for helping heal this.

I'm sure he means well and maybe he is trying his best but I dont think this pattern will end until you heal that wound and focusing so much on who said what is not healing the wound.

[zoiecat]

I agree with many of the comments above. When coming to this thread the past few days, I have sometimes missed switching to the last page and didn't even notice after reading multiple posts because the issues discussed 2 years ago are the same as what we are discussing now. I know you have improved a bit with not needing as many extra sessions and sometimes being able to hold off on sending an email, but other than that it seems that nothing has changed. You are still upset about his responses or non-responses to emails and struggling to get him to respond to your wishes in the way you want him too. As stated above, he is mainly a sports therapist. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is not what you need. It is like going to a heart surgeon with a brain tumor. Yes, the surgeon is a doctor and a skilled one at that, but he can't help you with a brain tumor.

As for EMDR, I also think this can be a great help for you. I have learned through EMDR, that all of my current issues are related to the past. Getting upset about something at work, is basically a rehash of something from childhood. My desire to prefer to be alone and only rely on myself stems from experiences in childhood. By desensitizing my trauma from the past, it helps me deal with the here and now. Depending on the severity of the trauma, or number of traumas, it can also work rather quickly and does not require years of therapy.

I also think it would be helpful to define what your goals in therapy are. Are there specific things you want to work past, work on enjoying life and not feeling the pain of negative feelings from everyday issues, or do you secretly want the relationship from being in therapy forever. Rather than looking for a therapist that will accept emails and extra sessions, maybe it would be a lot more productive to find a therapist that specializes in what you really want to accomplish.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Plus if he actually does have mostly athletes of some sort = they are often not crushed by clear non-emotional direction - they hire him for that. I find that true of students I have who are athletes - I love to get athletes and theatre people -they have dealt with losing, criticism of response, and competition and I don't often upset them.

Aha so thats why we are such a great match. Being an athlete - theater person myself.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

... When coming to this thread the past few days, I have sometimes missed switching to the last page...

You can set that option in your profile. I always have most recent appear first.

I have saved MILLIONS of keystrokes. I wonder if i can trade them for bitcoin. Seems like you should!

[smileygal]

Hey LT,

I read through some of the response pretty fast so sorry if I repeat myself. I agree with others who suggest you may be stretching your T and teaching him things although he may not even know it.

I also agree what many others said about him not really seeming to explore his part in this. I get frustrated with my T at times as she doesn't 'appear' to do this and she is psychodynamic trained. I would think if he was irritated with you he might still bring it up but in a different way and as you said be willing to explore what was going on for you further. Like a poster said a response from him might be 'For some reason your message was beginning to bother/annoy me (but that is less about you and is my own stuff to explore but I do also think it is helpful to explore your need to send a message like that. What does it bring up for you? What is the fear behind it? Where does that fear orginate?

But, another piece of this is I do see his side a little bit too, which may actually be part of his entire point is teaching you that in relationships people get annoyed with people and that is okay. The world doesn't end and it's a normal part of every relationship and that the relationship can still survive. I'm not saying he did this intentionally. Like me, it seems you like to control others. And by control others I simply mean not upset them, keep on the right side of them, try and figure out what they are thinking so that you can please and appease them and get them on yours side. Maybe you spent alot of your life on eggshells trying to keep the peace always hoping the other person wouldn't be annoyed with you as that was scary and unpredictable when they were but the reality is as an adult people will get annoyed with you. Even people that care for and love you can be annoyed with you. That is what a healthy relationship involves. I dunno maybe I'm off base here but either way f I were him this is what I would be exploring further. .I 'm responding off the cuff and this is what has come up for me so maybe some of it resonates and maybe not. I have similar yet different experiences with my T so can appreciate some of the struggles that arise.

[Quietmind 2]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Thanks, I do understand his point there--and yours. As I need to be able to deal with criticism, feedback, etc. in other areas of my life. But it also doesn't seem like he has suggestions on how to better deal with it. Just saying something is fine and normal is clearly not enough for me. Perhaps he has some other methods/suggestions? Or we need to spend more time examining the root cause of why I'm so sensitive to this?

For some, like me, for example, examining the root cause may help to a certain extent, because it connects the dots to my present day difficulties (awareness). Which I'm not good at (yet). So it eases the shame I carry about "why am I so sensitive?!?!" and therefore grows an ability to pause instead of me defaulting to self hatred.

But it isn't always necessary, because maybe someone (like me haha) simply doesn't remember details or have a specific chain of memories to point to.

The important thing is that your reaction makes sense in the context of your life and your history, whether or not you know exactly why.

Awareness is the first step, and then what comes in would be what stopdog said (at least for me in my current therapy):

Originally Posted by stopdog

It may be that part of it is seeing irritation happen from someone isn't fatal in general or fatal to that relationship. You and your husband get irritated with each other. You and your daughter -= it isn't fatal to the relationship. The same is true of this guy and you - it isn't fatal on either side.

But then yeah, like you mentioned, he doesn't have suggestions on how to better deal with it / process it.

I wish I could tell you how my T and I managed to reduce my reassurance checking, since I had a whole lomg stage where my T reassuring me was clearly not enough for me. And she realised the compulsive nature of my need for reassurance, and we worked on it.

[unaluna]

QM's response reminded me of what (and how) we are doing in t. IMO, it's not so much to play a psychological chess game, to trace the "logical" steps to our history.

It's to capture the feeling in the moment it happens. Not to avoid feeling, or even change feeling. But to integrate that feeling. Bring that feeling out of history and feel it in the safe room with your t.

Like the saying about theory and practice: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”

[atisketatasket]

On root causes, I think they can be generally useful. I know they’re important to you, LT, but what has often struck me is how detailed they are in your case. It’s often something like “X said this and it reminded me of when Y happened when I was 3 and so I reacted Z way.” And then the focus remains that highly specific root cause, not the present moment. Whereas for me a root cause might boil down to “my mother was not as emotionally available as I would have liked her to be” rather than specific instances, and then there’s not much to be done with that except try to keep it from my affecting my present.

Probably to a certain point that level of detail suits you and helps you, maybe is characteristic of your OCD. But I think it adds to the stuckness. And in that sense Dr. T may be better fit for you than a talk therapist, because he’s not interested in root causes and isn’t trained to be. Even a good talk therapist, though, will start pushing at stuckness.

I do think, having read this board for seven years now, that trying to get a therapist to be the therapist we want is usually a path to unnecessary pain.

[LonesomeTonight]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I was out last night, so I just read through them all. One general thought I had, which suggests some shift in me, is that I used to feel rather defensive in reading people's comment, whether the comment was more about me or my T. And I found this time, reading through them, instead of immediately shifting into defensive mode, I was more like, "hm, that's an interesting point, maybe I should think on it more." Perhaps Dr. T has helped me to increase my tolerance for feedback from everyone except him!

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I have come out of retirement to comment on this because it's something I've experienced, and maybe it will help you to hear.

Like others have said, this guy is not the therapist for the kind of work you're looking for from him. Those kind exist, and they would love to use the therapeutic relationship as a laboratory for seeing how you do life, but it's not just having someone hold all your feelings for you and be gushy. It's painful, hard work, fraught with shame attacks and fear. It's not all about what other people have done wrong. The past is a launching pad for how you experience life now. Some kinds of therapy help you get interested in finding ways as an adult to be more functional and happy with yourself. In relational therapy, you can show up and accuse the therapist of talking too harshly (maybe they did) or being dismissive (probably were)--they don't get defensive, though, they get curious and that makes you curious, and pretty soon you metabolize all those unbearable feelings and come up with a different approach for yourself--and you do that over and over and over and over again. The trust has to be there that they aren't going to walk away when you have a shame attack and freak out, that they're going to stick it out until you can put out the fires in your brain. It's looking deeply at how you experience things and being curious about that. Sure, you can look at the "why" but that gets old, especially once you know the why.

What I see in you is a need to manage other people's feelings, to make sure they don't feel too much or feel in a way that makes you uncomfortable--all coming from a need you may have to also not feel too much in yourself. That's something to be curious about and to wonder if it's working for you the way it did with a child brain. Would your life feel more doable if you let other people have their feelings and you learned to be okay with yours? That's the kind of thing digging deeper can start with, but your therapist doesn't work that way. His way can work for some. It's very practical.

I can clearly feel your pain when your therapist doesn't say or do the exact thing you need in order to feel okay. In all honesty though, that's a hamster wheel approach to life. Let's say he messed up and did virtual on a day that you thought was in person? That would feel awful--all kinds of feelings would flood you. Rejection, abandonment, fears of all kinds...lots of great material to work with if you had the right therapist. But I have a feeling with this therapist it would be weeks of you going over exactly what he did wrong and how it hurt you and was like your parents treatment of you (or fill in the blank). Instead, a relational therapist might lead you to finding ways to survive those feelings and carry on, to not be led by fears and fear of feeling things.


All that aside, you might do really well with EMDR. I've had great success with it, even though I was pretty sure it was going to be useless. My therapist (a different one than I had when I used to post here) is full on relational and I can't stand it. She says I limit what we can get to and that's right. I have specific things I'm there for, and that's all I want to work on. It's been really successful for me.


With EMDR, you could work on any number of triggering events--things with your daughter, your husband, past therapists, your mother (who is sounds like also tries to manage other people's feelings).


Anyway, just wanted to weigh in because I recognize your stuckness and want you to be able to live a great life, not being batted around by what other people say or do. It's very freeing.


btw, Have you watched Couples Therapy on Showtime? The therapist is a rare type--smart, bold and honest.

Sorry this is off topic LT, but it's really nice to see you Ruh Roh.

[Quietmind 2]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Perhaps Dr. T has helped me to increase my tolerance for feedback from everyone except him!

Okay, I laughed because I can see myself saying that about my T sometimes!

An occasional feature in my therapy is me saying frustratedly to my T "I don't have X issue with people in my life, except with you!"

[smileygal]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I was out last night, so I just read through them all. One general thought I had, which suggests some shift in me, is that I used to feel rather defensive in reading people's comment, whether the comment was more about me or my T. And I found this time, reading through them, instead of immediately shifting into defensive mode, I was more like, "hm, that's an interesting point, maybe I should think on it more." Perhaps Dr. T has helped me to increase my tolerance for feedback from everyone except him!

This is a positive LT. I wonder why this might be? Do you feel more secure in yourself?In the therapy relationship? I know in my therapy it can sometimes be hard to notice those smaller shifts and get caught up in the fact the bigger things are still repeating but they may take more than than we want. I have noticed I am becoming more sure of myself. Less caring of what others other than those I really care about think although do still value others perspectives on things for sure.

[Rive.]

it's like he thinks if he tells me enough times that he's irritated and then things are OK, I will suddenly just accept it, without other work being done on it.

Yah, it's not the way he works LT. He doesn't have the appropriate training for what it seems you are looking for. In these circumstances, I think these clashes will keep happening. He is not able to give you what you need - i.e. a T with a different modality who would want to go deep, who would understand that reactions in the present and/or their intensity may have roots in the past etc.

I think he is trying but like I wrote before, it's like you are speaking different languages. It would be like trying to get blood out of a stone - he just can't do it (or he will mess up, stumble, have conflicts and then possibly learn from you)

What he is saying is very true: he is trying to 'teach' you that being irritated or angry etc does not break a relationship. But you are not 'receiving' it because his approach is more realistic-tough love or 'superficial'. His training is just not there (for what it feels you need).