[stopdog]

Are you upset because you think he does not understand or are you upset because of being virtual? Aside from going in person - what do you want from him?

[unaluna]

Do tears usually get you what you want? I know thats a weird question. Im asking because i RARELY cry - in t, in life, period. So like - have tears become a conditioned response to x, y, z feelings?

Like are you taking this more seriously than needed BECAUSE you cried, like thats the signal that this is serious to you? Cuz i wonder if its like me feeling hungry, and thinking that i have to eat because i FEEL hungry. Instead of what that feeling is ABOUT.

Cuz maybe i eat instead of crying, ya know? And now i have to deal with the consequences of the eating behavior, instead of the original feelings.

Like, tears arent facts. Feeling hungry isnt a fact.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I don't think you're overreacting. L says something like it's a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. Something like that. Covid is an abnormal situation in that we have to constantly be afraid of virtual or getting sick. Plus, I think that your T is blaming his family when it is his decision to listen to his family. We all have control of ourselves even if it doesn't mean we like our choices. I'm not saying he's making a good or bad decision, just that it is his choice.

I agree with Zoiecat. Have you considered DBT? Even if you just do the workbook yourself? It seems like you need more skills right now; not relational work. Would Dr. T be willing to do the workbook with you?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

Have you given any more thought to DBT classes LT? I really think they would help with a lot of these issues. As for your T and the "democracy", it is ultimately his decision. Even if he wife and son want him to do something, it is his choice to make the final decision on what he is going to do. Obviously he is not going to want to cause friction with the family but again that is his choice to make. Are you scared that his family means more to him than his clients? Personally, I think everyone's family should take precedence over their job, especially since he is still able to do his job virtually. This is strange time and Covid does have the possibility to impact everyone's health so I can see how that may persuade his decision.

I did look into DBT classes (emailed a couple places) and could maybe do them in the fall (my daughter's summer schedule would make them difficult). I got a workbook for it, though haven't really had a chance to start working through it. I wanted to talk about it with Dr. T more, too, but various other things have come up. Which, OK, I know those all sound like excuses....

I do completely understand that his family takes precedence over his clients. It's more in how he seems to shift the blame onto them (mainly his wife). I think it would feel differently to me if he said something like, "I don't want to take the risk of getting sick right before our long-awaited vacation, so I'm going to do virtual." Rather than "They voted, and I lost." And if he'd planned for the virtual in advance, as opposed to the last-minute. That's really the main part of it for me, I think, the last-minute-ness.

I know things come up, like if he'd tested positive or had a known Covid exposure, then he'd have had to go virtual--I completely get that. But this is something he could have theoretically decided on before the day he shared it. And I still would have been sad, but at least I'd have been able to prepare for it instead of feeling like it had been sprung on me.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Are you upset because you think he does not understand or are you upset because of being virtual? Aside from going in person - what do you want from him?

That's a good question--I believe I'm mainly upset about the sudden decision to do virtual. Though if he'd seemed more understanding about my reaction (beyond "I'm not surprised by it"), I think that would go a long way for me.

But I do need to think about what I want from him (even if he can't give it, just to be able to explain to him). Because if I just sit there crying, expecting him to psychically know what I want him to say, despite not even knowing it myself, that's just a setup for failure. (Not just with him in the situation, but with anyone in my life.)

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Do tears usually get you what you want? I know thats a weird question. Im asking because i RARELY cry - in t, in life, period. So like - have tears become a conditioned response to x, y, z feelings?

Like are you taking this more seriously than needed BECAUSE you cried, like thats the signal that this is serious to you? Cuz i wonder if its like me feeling hungry, and thinking that i have to eat because i FEEL hungry. Instead of what that feeling is ABOUT.

Cuz maybe i eat instead of crying, ya know? And now i have to deal with the consequences of the eating behavior, instead of the original feelings.

Like, tears arent facts. Feeling hungry isnt a fact.

I wouldn't say that tears get me what I want. Like it's certainly not an intentional thing, and I kept apologizing. Because I didn't *want* to be reacting that way. I wanted to just be like, "OK, I completely understand," then move on to other things.

I do feel that tears are often a reaction for me (in therapy or otherwise) when I'm not saying what I really want to say to the other person. I think of a relationship in college (years ago!) where I'd be upset or unhappy with my boyfriend and would just end up crying instead of actually telling him why I'm upset. (I'm sort of amazed he put up with it as long as he did....).

So in this case, I'm upset with Dr. T because of this, but I also understand why he's doing it. So I don't feel like I can be all, "How dare you prioritize your family instead of your clients!"

It's very much like how I could be upset with ex-MC when he had to cancel at the last minute or was looking at his phone every time it rang or he got a text (sometimes a few times a session) once I knew his wife was sick (and before she died), because of course he had to make sure it wasn't about her. But it was still very disruptive to the sessions. So I'd end up crying about it (not, like, in the moment when he got a text).

I think it was a learned response from childhood to not express anger or disappointment or other negative feelings verbally to people, and sometimes the feelings would be too much to just hold in entirely, so they came out as tears. So I do often see tears as a sign of "OK, something is going on here with me, need to examine that."

I think this could be a good thing to pursue with Dr. T more, the tears as suppressed other emotions--though sometimes they're just sadness or a sort of release. But maybe learning to tell the difference? Like, are these just tears, or is there something beneath the surface that I'm not expressing? Not even in terms of being upset with Dr. T, but maybe about the situation in general, like, in this case, I'm tired of Covid interfering with my life. (Or, perhaps, I'm tired of other people making decisions that affect me without my having any input.) Which might be what I really need to talk about.

[AliceKate]

I don't think you are overreacting. You have an agreement that he'll let you know a week in advance. He should stick to the agreements he makes.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I don't think you're overreacting. L says something like it's a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. Something like that. Covid is an abnormal situation in that we have to constantly be afraid of virtual or getting sick. Plus, I think that your T is blaming his family when it is his decision to listen to his family. We all have control of ourselves even if it doesn't mean we like our choices. I'm not saying he's making a good or bad decision, just that it is his choice.

I agree with Zoiecat. Have you considered DBT? Even if you just do the workbook yourself? It seems like you need more skills right now; not relational work. Would Dr. T be willing to do the workbook with you?

Thanks, Scarlet. It helps to know you don't think I'm overreacting. I do think much of this is a sort of Covid fatigue, like this is still affecting both my therapy and my outside life more than 2 years after it started. And it's just exhausting and frustrating. Because there are so many unknowns.

And I'm glad you understand about the "blaming his family" thing. How it's ultimately his choice. It just feels like a cop out, like "Well, my hands are tied, so I had to do this."

As mentioned before, I did get a DBT workbook a few weeks ago, but haven't had a chance to really start on it. That's a good idea about asking if he'd be willing to work on it with me. Even if he's not specifically trained in that technique, I know one of the sections is meditation, and he *is* trained in that. So if nothing else, he'd be able to help me in working through that part. And I assume he has at least some working knowledge of the other aspects, so I could talk through some of the exercises with him, if I'm having trouble doing them, show him what I wrote, etc.

Hm, and I'll be seeing his backup, R, next week while he's away, and she's trained in trauma therapy, including EMDR--not sure about DBT (though she doesn't really do that anymore and is focused on a different type of client). But this all might be something to discuss with her.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by AliceKate

I don't think you are overreacting. You have an agreement that he'll let you know a week in advance. He should stick to the agreements he makes.

Thanks, AliceKate. I think that's part of it, too. Though maybe a month ago, he said he no longer thought he'd be able to stick to the week thing, which took away one of my senses of security, that at least I'd have a week to process it. And he also blamed that on his wife, saying she might insist on his switching back to virtual, and "I want a peaceful home life." When he could also, in theory, tell her, say, "I told my clients I'd give them a week's notice." (And before anyone says anything, yes, I know, I obviously can't dictate what he tells his wife...)

[AliceKate]

I agree, in a partnership, one person should not be able to dictate that much, like a week isn't that much. But yeah, we don't know their relationship, so it's difficult to judge this. It does sound like he might be making excuses, like you say...

[elisewin]

I understand it is disappointing to be put on distance when you expect to go in person. I have never been to a distance therapy session, but the other distant meetings that I have been to, are just a vague shadow of meeting people in person. So I understand it is not the same, but 10% of what you are paying for.

Also I think it is him, not you who is overreacting. Covid is not going away, and meeting people one on one with a decent distance seems very low risk to me. Maybe us who really have to meet a lot of people at work can't really get that.

[Quietmind 2]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I wouldn't say that tears get me what I want. Like it's certainly not an intentional thing, and I kept apologizing. Because I didn't *want* to be reacting that way. I wanted to just be like, "OK, I completely understand," then move on to other things.

I do feel that tears are often a reaction for me (in therapy or otherwise) when I'm not saying what I really want to say to the other person. I think of a relationship in college (years ago!) where I'd be upset or unhappy with my boyfriend and would just end up crying instead of actually telling him why I'm upset. (I'm sort of amazed he put up with it as long as he did....).

So in this case, I'm upset with Dr. T because of this, but I also understand why he's doing it. So I don't feel like I can be all, "How dare you prioritize your family instead of your clients!"

It's very much like how I could be upset with ex-MC when he had to cancel at the last minute or was looking at his phone every time it rang or he got a text (sometimes a few times a session) once I knew his wife was sick (and before she died), because of course he had to make sure it wasn't about her. But it was still very disruptive to the sessions. So I'd end up crying about it (not, like, in the moment when he got a text).

I think it was a learned response from childhood to not express anger or disappointment or other negative feelings verbally to people, and sometimes the feelings would be too much to just hold in entirely, so they came out as tears. So I do often see tears as a sign of "OK, something is going on here with me, need to examine that."

I think this could be a good thing to pursue with Dr. T more, the tears as suppressed other emotions--though sometimes they're just sadness or a sort of release. But maybe learning to tell the difference? Like, are these just tears, or is there something beneath the surface that I'm not expressing? Not even in terms of being upset with Dr. T, but maybe about the situation in general, like, in this case, I'm tired of Covid interfering with my life. (Or, perhaps, I'm tired of other people making decisions that affect me without my having any input.) Which might be what I really need to talk about.

While I agree Dr T isn't psychic, do you feel he helps you explore why you cry?

Asking because when I start leaking tears in therapy, especially when I don't expect to be crying (and I'll be mystified by my crying sometimes), my T slows us down and coaches me in listening to myself on what is bringing on the tears. Usually it's informative, even if I keep dismissing it as irrational and an overreaction.

I ought to joke with her on how my Ex T celebrated the first time I shed tears, and how for a long time, my T would need to hand me tissue / put tissue wothin my reach, or I would get up to get some...and stop crying.

[unaluna]

Yeah. Does food get me what i want. I think my tears or sadness were met by my father offering me food. He did not want to have to deal with any of that shyte.

My pdoc/t once asked me about being an emotional eater. I was like no - i am feeling hunger when i eat. But now i think it was anxiety. Like there was no way 20 years ago i would get obesity surgery. Not being able to eat "a sufficient quantity" was not an option. Now (for the past week or so), i am able to stay conscious and aware most of the day and not wander off into snacking-land. But its hard. Or weird.

Like an emotional reaction gets hijacked by a physical one so fast...

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Quietmind 2

While I agree Dr T isn't psychic, do you feel he helps you explore why you cry?

Asking because when I start leaking tears in therapy, especially when I don't expect to be crying (and I'll be mystified by my crying sometimes), my T slows us down and coaches me in listening to myself on what is bringing on the tears. Usually it's informative, even if I keep dismissing it as irrational and an overreaction.

I ought to joke with her on how my Ex T celebrated the first time I shed tears, and how for a long time, my T would need to hand me tissue / put tissue wothin my reach, or I would get up to get some...and stop crying.

This is a good question. There are times when I start crying at seemingly random times (like in the middle of when he's talking), and he'll stop and say, "What's going on?" And sometimes I'm not sure. But other times, it's because there's something I'm holding back. And I think he's come to realize that, how tears are often a sign that I want to say something but am not doing so for some reason. Like my body trying to communicate in other ways.

And it's not like the tears are always about something with him. I think of one time fairly recently when a thought about my daughter suddenly hit me from something he was saying. He stopped, asked what was going on, and I shared. Hm, I guess in some ways, the tears can be like raising my hand in class to speak.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by elisewin

I understand it is disappointing to be put on distance when you expect to go in person. I have never been to a distance therapy session, but the other distant meetings that I have been to, are just a vague shadow of meeting people in person. So I understand it is not the same, but 10% of what you are paying for.

Also I think it is him, not you who is overreacting. Covid is not going away, and meeting people one on one with a decent distance seems very low risk to me. Maybe us who really have to meet a lot of people at work can't really get that.

Yes, I think your second point is part of what's frustrating to me. What if he worked for, say, a therapy clinic where he was required to go into the office? Would his wife insist that he quit or take 2 weeks of leave to be off in advance of his vacation? Many employers are requiring employees to return to the office, too.

Dr. T has become more relaxed about it, saying even Friday that he just accepts the risk now about seeing clients in his office. And he mentioned recently how he feels like everyone he knows has Covid. Back when he reopened in person this year--in March, I think?--he said he thought to himself, with the expected surge in fall, what is he going to do, just close his office for the fall and winter? (To which I said, "Well, that's what you did last year!")

Plus, he said only about 1/3 (maybe even fewer) of his clients returned in person. So that's like 10 people a week total, if that? You'd encounter more than that eating inside at a restaurant once. It's not like he's working in the ER or something (or a store, a restaurant, an airport, or one of many other places where you can't do your job without interacting with the public).

So I get the sense that he's OK with the risk (he doesn't even wear a mask to retrieve me in the waiting room anymore, for example), it's mainly his wife (and maybe son?) who isn't at this point.

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Thanks, Comrade. It does often seem to be about him. We've talked about other coping strategies--whether it's talking to friends, posting here, distractions like TV or music, etc. But then there are times (including very recently) where the coping strategies haven't been enough. (Also in part due to stressors in my outside life, so I have less of a "buffer," as he put it the other day.) And I'm not sure we've really fully addressed how to manage that? I mean, I can email him, but then he won't reply until the next morning, so it's not as helpful if it's like 9 p.m. Though sometimes just the act of sending an email helps. (He also recently talked about an email "balance" thing, sort of like a bank balance, which made me feel more reluctant to email.)

On another note, I'm also bothered by the fact the he recently said he didn't think I'd experienced clinical depression while I've been seeing him, that it's all been from my anxiety. Which is actually something that I had thought about bringing up with him yesterday, before he said the thing about virtual sessions. As there have been times when I've ticked nearly every box on a depression checklist in the past couple years. So it feels invalidating for him to say he doesn't think I've experienced it. Yes, I know he's supposedly a diagnostic expert, but still....

Anyway, I think this is something I need to address with him tomorrow, both the "how to cope" piece and the depression thing.

I hope you're managing OK--I'm so sorry about what happened with your T--it's very wrong what she did.

I think I mean something different when I refer to him helping you to know how to emotionally survive the misattunements. I don't really mean if he is exploring coping strategies with you or taking a behavioural approach, but whether he is working through the misattunement with you and staying with it long enough that you can develop a sense of recovery and safety within yourself. I can't describe it very well.

Do you know the Gestalt prayer? Personally, I think it is pretentious and it's a bit of a cliche (and I am certainly not recommending Gestalt as an option, it can be brutally abrupt), but it says something about those times when being in connection isn't possible.

I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped.

So, easy to say "it can't be helped". When your core wounds are the business which is being missed, it really hurts, but I think there is something useful in accepting and still feeling safe in the natural disconnections of relationships.

[Rive.]

You're not overreacting LT, these are your feelings and as such, valid. I think (assume?) it doesn't help when (a) he doesn't really get it and (b) it is a done deal i.e. whatever you feel, this is his decision and he is in effect 'leaving' you and (c) his 'real life' takes priority over his clients.

Frankly, the 'not taking ownership' part is also striking for me. I mean. This is a blurring of boundaries (why tell clients this?!) and also makes him seem cowardly: 'it's not me, *they* are making me do it'. I mean, come on, grow up and own up to your decisions...

I know these are uncertain times and the future (i.e. what will happen) isn't guaranteed but it seems *he* also is fostering this shaky, uncertain, ground with you. And how is that helpful..

Finally, I also feel that your deep core issues are not being addressed. It seems more like a band-aid strategy: e.g. calling a friend, posting here, whatever. These are distractions. The inner wound is still untouched.

[smileygal]

It is like he is defaulting blame to his wife and child when it would be better if he owned it.

My T did something similiar yet different. She made the decision to close her practise, downsize and go online permanently during the pandemic. I obviously logically understood this was the best decision for her and her family. But it also impacted me and my therapy negatively. From my perspective it also all happened quite quickly so there wasn't a lot of time to get used to the idea.

I wanted to talk about my feelings of hurt and anger around i (It is my therapy after all) even though logically I understood. She kept defaulting to blaming the pandemic and how unfortunate it was that this had happened which really bothered me. When she asked why this bothered me so much I said it was because she was not owning her decision. SHE had decided this. She made the decision to downsize and move online permanently so she needed to own it . No one including the forced her to do that. Yes the pandemic had made things change temporarily but not necessarily forever, I felt it was reasonable to be annoyed with her for a bit even if it wasn't rationale. I don't know if she fully agreed with me but being able to verbalize it and be annoyed with her and have her hold that annoyance even momentarily was very helpful to me.

Often as kids many of us weren't allowed or able to share that decisions our parents made hurt us or impacted us in negative ways. There is something healing about being able to do so in therapy.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I think I mean something different when I refer to him helping you to know how to emotionally survive the misattunements. I don't really mean if he is exploring coping strategies with you or taking a behavioural approach, but whether he is working through the misattunement with you and staying with it long enough that you can develop a sense of recovery and safety within yourself. I can't describe it very well.

Do you know the Gestalt prayer? Personally, I think it is pretentious and it's a bit of a cliche (and I am certainly not recommending Gestalt as an option, it can be brutally abrupt), but it says something about those times when being in connection isn't possible.

I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped.

So, easy to say "it can't be helped". When your core wounds are the business which is being missed, it really hurts, but I think there is something useful in accepting and still feeling safe in the natural disconnections of relationships.

OK, I think I understand now what you were trying to say. With the misattunements, I feel he often thinks they're completely resolved and he doesn't have to address them anymore. And often, I will also think this, but then will realize the next session or a week or even months later that it's still affecting me, and I don't fully trust him or don't feel safe, say, sending him an email (or asking him for something or whatever).

So I think it's perhaps just as much me not staying in there and trying to work through the misattunement, thinking "OK, I'm past this" or "I *should* be past this." So to him, it likely seems that I am past it, so he's not bringing it up anymore. Yet it's still hanging out in my subconscious.

I had not heard the Gestalt prayer before--it's interesting. I was reading a little about Gestalt therapy and watching the Perls and Gloria session just now. And it feels like, despite not being formally trained in it (and maybe not even knowing much about it), Dr. T practices elements of that. Including the "It can't be helped" aspect of two humans interacting.

In this morning's session, he was telling me that he is more honest about what he's feeling with me than he is with other clients. Because he feels that it's "good" for me and will help me in the long run to realize that, for example, I can annoy someone, and it's OK--they aren't going to go anywhere, aren't going to leave.

I said how sometimes it was hurtful. He said he thought I'd prefer to see all the cards on the table. "Would you want me to have negative feelings about you and not tell you?" Me: "I guess not. But I also don't think you need to tell me every time that I annoy you." Dr. T: "I don't tell you every time." Me: "...So I actually annoy you more than you've said?" Dr. T: "Yes." Me: "Great, so now I'm worried that I'm annoying you all the time..." Dr. T: "LT, you really don't annoy me that often." Me: "OK. Good."

(You may note the contradiction there between his implying he'd share any negative feelings, then telling me that he doesn't share them all.)

[zoiecat]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped..

I agree this is a bit blunt but it is a good concept to learn about dealing with life. We cannot control other people and unless we are in love with someone oe we are doing something morally wrong it is questionable if we should change ourselves for someone else.

In DBT there are relationship skills using DEAR MAN that can help you look at things from both sides and create an approach to express your needs and ask for what you want in a way that is mutually beneficial to the other person making it more likely they will respond favorably.

But there is also something call Radical Acceptance for when you cannot change what is bothering you. Covid is something we have to radically accept to a certain degree which branches off into many more avenues of our past way of life.

Then there is something called Check the Facts. I know you are dissapointed and it feels like he is doing this against you. It feels like if he really cared about you he would go against his families wishes. It is perfectly fine for you to feel that way those are your feelings. But looking strictly at the facts 1. Covid is an easily transmittable virus 2. Your T is going on vacation 3. Your T has made the decision to only work virtually next week Those are all true facts. All of the what ifs and he should have said this or could do this instead is not fact. Those are thoughts spinning around in your head trying to create the reality of your choosing to make your life easier.

While it is your T job to work with you and help you improve yourself to make a better life, he also has his own autonomy and life to contend with and own decisions to make. Yes, one of those decisions may involve doing something to make his family more comfortable. Sorry to put my opinion in here but I don't think he does a very good job completing the first sentence here and I will leave it at that.

I know this is feeding into your desire to overanalyze things but have you considered that possibly he is giving you the wife and son excuse because he thinks you will accept that easier than if it was his decision alone? Based on things you have quoted from him in the past it seems like he trues to word things carefully with you to avoid undesired consequences. He may be thinking that when he gives you his own decision you tend to push back and a rupture begins until he gives in to your request. Ex: standing after session, the stone, etc. Just maybe...his attempt to predetermine your reaction based on past experience failed this time. Just a thought.

[InkyBooky]

Hi LT, I'm usually a lurker, but I appreciate this board so much and have gained a lot of insight by reading about others' experiences with psychotherapy.

Anyway, I just wanted to log on to say that I do not believe you are over-reacting at all. It seems to me that you are very psychologically minded and that you have a great awareness of your own mental health struggles (in terms of how they manifest and impact your daily life). Furthermore, it seems that you work hard to increase your self-awareness and incorporate that knowledge/understanding into your other relationships so as to be a more attuned parent, spouse, friend, etc. I mean, you really DO the work of therapy...despite a somewhat clueless (although I'm sure very well-meaning) therapist.

In conclusion, I truly hope your T will slow down and use these golden opportunities within your therapeutic relationship to explore YOUR inner world and YOUR relational patterns/reenactments rather than continue to "explain-blame-gaslight" and then carry on as though none of it is useful to the therapy itself.

Sadly, your biggest takeaway from these sorts of interactions with your T often seems to be that you need to find a way to change your own behavior in order to "protect" the relationship. Yikes- that is exactly what happens in many real world relationships (and most likely what you experienced in childhood from your parents)...it should not be happening in therapy.

Kudos for you for working so hard (in and out of therapy) to understand these patterns for yourself.

[ScarletPimpernel]

InkyBooky just reminded me something else L says. You are not responsible for carrying the entire relationship. It's not all on you, LT. Dr. T should own his part of the "dance". You're so good at exploring, processing, and owning your part. But Dr. T doesn't seem to own his...rarely.

Your feelings are valid.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Rive.

You're not overreacting LT, these are your feelings and as such, valid. I think (assume?) it doesn't help when (a) he doesn't really get it and (b) it is a done deal i.e. whatever you feel, this is his decision and he is in effect 'leaving' you and (c) his 'real life' takes priority over his clients.

Frankly, the 'not taking ownership' part is also striking for me. I mean. This is a blurring of boundaries (why tell clients this?!) and also makes him seem cowardly: 'it's not me, *they* are making me do it'. I mean, come on, grow up and own up to your decisions...

I know these are uncertain times and the future (i.e. what will happen) isn't guaranteed but it seems *he* also is fostering this shaky, uncertain, ground with you. And how is that helpful..

Finally, I also feel that your deep core issues are not being addressed. It seems more like a band-aid strategy: e.g. calling a friend, posting here, whatever. These are distractions. The inner wound is still untouched.

Thanks, Rive. That's a good point on how he's fostering the shaky, uncertain ground. Today I said how it had helped that earlier on, he'd said he could give me a week's notice if he had to switch (longer-term) back to virtual. And then when I had mentioned it a month or two later, he said he didn't know that he could give me a week. And I said the week had been this thing I'd been holding onto (like, I'd have time to process it), and it felt like that had been taken away.

He said that he realized an error he makes at times with me and other clients is promising something that he shouldn't promise. How he wasn't sure if I'd done this, but other clients had said, "But you told me x," but that had been, say, 2 years ago and maybe no longer applied. So that he should be more careful around that in general.

I agree it's a sort of blurring of boundaries bringing his wife and especially son into it. Especially as prepandemic, he rarely mentioned them (and would, for some reason, sometimes call her "my spouse"). But I feel she comes up regularly now.

I did bring up today, closer to the end of session, how it felt like his saying it was their decision felt like a shifting of the blame, like "Don't blame me, it wasn't my decision!" Like I couldn't be mad at him, because it wasn't his fault. He thought for a minute and said how he could see why it would feel that way.

But that in this case, he said he thought I would understand more because it was essentially their decision. How he couldn't really say it was his decision and rationalize it to me because he didn't agree that it was the right choice. He said if he was single or married to someone who wasn't so worried about getting Covid before a vacation, he'd have still done in-person this week (note: he's never said anything about her being higher-risk for any reason). But that sometimes in a marriage, you have to make accommodations for each other. He said he had thought about maybe just being virtual for a couple days before the vacation, which would have only affected 1 session for me and been a week's notice. But then they suddenly pushed for a full week.

And in comments that I think definitely blurred a boundary, he said that if he'd gotten Covid from a client in the week before their family vacation and caused them to not be able to go, that he was probably exaggerating, but he wouldn't be surprised if his wife would be looking up divorce attorneys.

But anyway, yes, I do feel like my core wound needs more healing. We do talk about childhood stuff, abandonment fears, etc. I think we need to spend more time in that area. My being so reactionary to things that from the outside seem minor, like switching to virtual for a week, suggest I clearly need more help with it, as I know it's not just about his changing his schedule/method of delivery therapy--it's obviously about something bigger and deeper than that for me. Though he did at least say that he understood how it could feel like abandonment, as between virtual and vacation, it would be 2 weeks before I saw him in person again.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

InkyBooky just reminded me something else L says. You are not responsible for carrying the entire relationship. It's not all on you, LT. Dr. T should own his part of the "dance". You're so good at exploring, processing, and owning your part. But Dr. T doesn't seem to own his...rarely.

Your feelings are valid.

Thanks, Scarlet, that helps to hear. I do feel like he often fails to own his part. He doesn't examine himself like I do.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

I agree this is a bit blunt but it is a good concept to learn about dealing with life. We cannot control other people and unless we are in love with someone oe we are doing something morally wrong it is questionable if we should change ourselves for someone else.

In DBT there are relationship skills using DEAR MAN that can help you look at things from both sides and create an approach to express your needs and ask for what you want in a way that is mutually beneficial to the other person making it more likely they will respond favorably.

But there is also something call Radical Acceptance for when you cannot change what is bothering you. Covid is something we have to radically accept to a certain degree which branches off into many more avenues of our past way of life.

Then there is something called Check the Facts. I know you are dissapointed and it feels like he is doing this against you. It feels like if he really cared about you he would go against his families wishes. It is perfectly fine for you to feel that way those are your feelings. But looking strictly at the facts 1. Covid is an easily transmittable virus 2. Your T is going on vacation 3. Your T has made the decision to only work virtually next week Those are all true facts. All of the what ifs and he should have said this or could do this instead is not fact. Those are thoughts spinning around in your head trying to create the reality of your choosing to make your life easier.

While it is your T job to work with you and help you improve yourself to make a better life, he also has his own autonomy and life to contend with and own decisions to make. Yes, one of those decisions may involve doing something to make his family more comfortable. Sorry to put my opinion in here but I don't think he does a very good job completing the first sentence here and I will leave it at that.

I know this is feeding into your desire to overanalyze things but have you considered that possibly he is giving you the wife and son excuse because he thinks you will accept that easier than if it was his decision alone? Based on things you have quoted from him in the past it seems like he trues to word things carefully with you to avoid undesired consequences. He may be thinking that when he gives you his own decision you tend to push back and a rupture begins until he gives in to your request. Ex: standing after session, the stone, etc. Just maybe...his attempt to predetermine your reaction based on past experience failed this time. Just a thought.

Thanks, Zoiecat. You're right that I need to get better at just accepting the facts as they are. It's also a thing where I can know that I should accept the facts, then get upset with myself that I can't just do that. Or feeling like I shouldn't express my emotions because they won't change the facts or because it could seem like I'm trying to make someone feel guilty.

One thing that did help me today is Dr. T saying he understood (without my saying it) how it might make me feel that I'm less important, that his family is taking priority right now. And that he knows I may understand something intellectually, like this situation, but there can still be feelings about it. Maybe that seems to conflict with what you're saying, but getting validation about my feelings, even though nothing will change as a result of them, is helpful to me. (Particularly validation without feeling judged--he wasn't like, "Of course I have to put my family first, you're just a client!" Because I already judge myself plenty.)

I mentioned in my previous post how I did talk about how it seemed like he was trying to shift the blame to his wife/son. And that conversation helped, too. I mean, that basically *was* what he was doing because he wouldn't have made the same decision on his own.

You may be right that he tried to predetermine my reaction here and failed. One thing I said today was that it felt like I couldn't be upset with him (even knowing nothing would change) because it wasn't his fault. So I felt sort of stuck in that sense, and I thought it was why I just ended up doing a lot of crying Friday instead of, say, expressing any sort of anger. He seemed to understand that.

He did say on Friday, too, that he appreciated that I wasn't trying to do anything to try to change his mind (like offer to test before session, wear a mask, etc.). So maybe there is some level of acceptance for me here? I can accept something while still being upset about it, right?