[ScarletPimpernel]

I saw L's H at the office today and it really upset .e for several reasons. 1. Seeing what he looked like was not on my terms. 2. He was at my safe place. 3. I'm jealous of him and the time he gets with L.

But the worst part is that L played coy at first. She said things like "If that's my H" or "Someone else could be driving my car". Then she said she didn't realize that I knew her car which I have said many times I do. She finally told me it was her H.

I'm crushed. I feel like L lied to me. At the very least, she wasn't open. I mean, denying that's your H? I feel like she betrayed my trust.

I want to talk to J about it, but I don't know if that's appropriate. I can't really talk to L because technically she's not back from her vacation until Tuesday.

I'm upset.

[downandlonely]

I don't think she should have lied about you. But I don't think it's wrong that her husband visited her at her office.

[ArtleyWilkins]

She has a right to privacy and may have preferred to keep his identity private. He certainly has a right to be there; it is his wife’s office and it is certainly not unusual for a spouse to be at the office for one reason or another. Considering your reaction, I can see why she was trying to diffuse the situation: she probably predicted your reaction and was trying to spare the issue. But, she has no obligation to keep him away from her office on your behalf. Kind of seems like you may need to take a step back and realize the only thing new here is you have a visual of him. Otherwise, you already knew she was married. You already were jealous anyway: this doesn’t change that. She was trying to spare the issue but realized she couldn’t. Her intention was fine, but the delivery wasn’t. Consider it a goof and try to allow an pretty minor error in judgment. This doesn’t have to be a big thing if you can realize that honestly not much is changed except for the visual.

[RTerroni]

It can happen, I can remember many years ago when I saw a picture of a former Therapist with another guy and I got very jealous.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Artley - I feel like my feelings are being invalidated. I wasn't looking for anyone to criticize me or even L. I was hoping for support. Maybe you just don't understand mine and L's relationship? Honesty is first and foremost. And she wasn't being honest at the start.

Every therapist I've had made sure to keep their personal life out of their professional life. Yes, L shares personal stuff about herself, but it's on my terms. She always asks first. So in that regard, I feel her H should have not been there. And according to her, she didn't realize he would be there when I arrived. They're sharing a car, and he was supposed to run errands.

Anyways, I wound up talking with J. She helped a lot. She didn't give me a solution or try to make it better. She mostly just reminded me of facts about mine and L's relationship (she would never hurt me intentionally, we've worked through other ruptures, etc.) and that even after this, I still love L. J validated my feelings and experience and my perspective without taking sides.

What I really need is to talk to L. I need to know why she wasn't direct and straightforward with me.

[Omers]

I'm sorry, that sucks. I had a hard time the one time I saw awesome T's wife at the office (I couldn't go in until I knew she had left the parking lot). T was very upfront about it being his wife and was OK listening to my discomfort. I am sorry that L could not offer that to you. I know there are risks to self-disclosure but you had already seen him being coy certainly is not going to help things.

[velcro003]

I’m sorry Scarlet. I definitely think she wasn’t fully in T mode when she tried denying it at first. Maybe she was flustered because she knew you would have a reaction, and was trying not to hurt you. But then realized that error (or was forced to realize it) and told you the truth. She could have doubled down into “you don’t need to know that private information from my life• Not that I think she would, as you both seem to honor honesty.

I just hope when you see her next, this will be repaired. You HAVE gone through so many other bigger ruptures, i am confident you will get through this, too.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by Omers

I'm sorry, that sucks. I had a hard time the one time I saw awesome T's wife at the office (I couldn't go in until I knew she had left the parking lot). T was very upfront about it being his wife and was OK listening to my discomfort. I am sorry that L could not offer that to you. I know there are risks to self-disclosure but you had already seen him being coy certainly is not going to help things.

Thank you Omers. L did let me vent/cry in session about seeing him. I just didn't catch that I was upset about her not being upfront with me.

The thing is that L does do a lot of disclosures. However, if I ask a question, we process it first. If she wants to offer a disclosure, she asks me first.

L knew that I didn't want to see him. I told her last year that one day I want to see her wedding pictures, but that I wasn't ready to. I definitely wasn't prepared to see him in person!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by velcro003

I’m sorry Scarlet. I definitely think she wasn’t fully in T mode when she tried denying it at first. Maybe she was flustered because she knew you would have a reaction, and was trying not to hurt you. But then realized that error (or was forced to realize it) and told you the truth. She could have doubled down into “you don’t need to know that private information from my life• Not that I think she would, as you both seem to honor honesty.

I just hope when you see her next, this will be repaired. You HAVE gone through so many other bigger ruptures, i am confident you will get through this, too.

Thanks Velcro. Something must have happened, right? There must be some explanation. Because if she lied to me, I feel our relationship is in jeopardy. Trust is the utmost important. I have told her everything about me. Deep stuff. And that's the thing: she's told me a lot too. I just wish that she didn't lie because now the situation is two-fold.

[divine1966]

I think she possibly panicked when you started asking. Was probably afraid of your reaction, I don’t mean she was afraid like in danger but just wanting to avoid it. Sometimes that is why people lie. Or could be protecting his identity. Like you have rights to privacy but so does he.

Yes much better would be for her to say yes it’s is my husband. But she made a mistake trying to get out of it. I understand why you are upset about her dishonesty (even if it wasn’t done with malice). I mean if I asked hey is it your brother and they said oh no it’s not while it is, I’d feel stupid. Why are they lying. I think it’s reasonable to be upset about that

As about her husband should or shouldn’t be there, I don’t think there is a rule right that. There should be a rule that he doesn’t walk in during your session or tries speaking to you in a waiting room or otherwise violate your privacy. But if he happened to be there I don’t think she broke rules there. I understand you feel jealous but maybe there is a lesson there and something to work on with a t. Sometimes you just have to face it. You could run into them in a restaurant or grocery store. It could happen and it could hurt but that’s life. Could you still be upset? Of course.

Hope it gets resolved

[ScarletPimpernel]

Divine - Yes, whether her H is there or not is NOT a rule. I think some are getting focused on my upset that he was there. That is already something L and I have started processing. Well, she already knew how I felt about him, but we started processing what it was like seeing him.

Just a note, I haven't ran into him because he just moved out here this weekend. And L said she assumed he would leave right away, not sit in the car out front.

My issues is she wasn't forthcoming with me. For whatever reason that maybe, right now, I still feel it was a lie. I don't think you are understanding the gravity of that for me. It was one thing for her H being there, it's an entirely different thing to dodge my direct question when we both knew the answer. Instead of saying "Let's process if he was my H", she said she didn't know. Then later she said they were carpooling, so she did know. That's my problem. That's why I posted this thread.

I don't know why she did it. Only she knows. It could be she was trying to protect me or him. Whatever the reason, what she said was untrue: that she didn't know.

I, too, hope it gets resolved somehow. I still love her. And I do know she didn't intentionally mean to upset me. I just can't get passed this right now. Maybe if I understood? I just don't know if I'll get the chance to understand until Tuesday when she's back in the office full-time. It's very difficult sitting with this.

[LonesomeTonight]

I'm sorry this happened Scarlet. I suspect it might be the lying that's most upsetting to you--I know it would upset me. I think, as others said, she may have been flustered and concerned about hurting you, so she figured it would be better to lie, not knowing you knew her car. So she wasn't doing that intentionally to hurt you, but was trying to look out for you.

Plus, like you said, she didn't know her H was going to be there, so couldn't have warned you in advance or asked him to stay away during that time. I suspect maybe she's a bit annoyed at him for being there and leading to this conflict.

I imagine it would also be difficult for me to see Dr. T's wife at his office. She did call during a session earlier this year when there was a tornado warning, and she wanted him to leave his office and go to an area without windows. He sat talking on the phone with her for a minute or two in front of me. I couldn't really hear what she was specifically saying, but got a sense of her voice. It was awkward for me, as it felt like she was intruding on my session--at the very least, Dr. T could have said, "Hang on, I need to take this" and stepped in the hallway.

I did talk a little at one point about why it bothered me, but I'm not sure he fully understood. So the fact that a phone call bothered me suggests it would definitely affect me if she showed up there, like if she was walking out of the office as I was walking in because she had to take something to him. I know what she looks like because she was a member of a Facebook group I'm in and I saw her profile picture (he knows this)--so that would be a case where if Dr. T was like "Maybe that wasn't my wife," assuming she doesn't have a twin sister, I would know he was lying, and it would really bother me.

Sorry, that ended up being too much about me. Mostly just trying to say I get why you had the reaction, both to seeing him (without any warning) and to L lying about it. I'm glad J was helpful, and I think you'll be able to work through this with L.

[InkyBooky]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

My issues is she wasn't forthcoming with me. For whatever reason that maybe, right now, I still feel it was a lie. I don't think you are understanding the gravity of that for me. It was one thing for her H being there, it's an entirely different thing to dodge my direct question when we both knew the answer. Instead of saying "Let's process if he was my H", she said she didn't know. Then later she said they were carpooling, so she did know. That's my problem. That's why I posted this thread.

I'm sorry you feel betrayed, but maybe it will help if you frame it as "my T is a good person who tries to protect the people she cares about" rather than framing it as a "lie" with some sort of intent to deceive on her part.

In this instance she was simply caught between trying to protect her husband (his privacy) and trying to protect your feelings as well. Sure, maybe she stumbled a little because she was caught off guard, but ultimately it sounds like her intention was to protect.

[Rive.]

She should have been honest with you. In my book, not wanting to upset you, is not reason enough. Honesty and truth are more important.

Yes, her husband is perfectly entitled to be there but her trying to manage you/your feelings as if you were a little kid is disrespectful and invalidating. She messed up.

[AliceKate]

If she assumed he was already gone, perhaps it was not a lie at all? She could have pondered the possibility of you spotting a man in a similar, not her own car, so "I don't know" might have been an honest reply born from confusion? Just a thought.

[smileygal]

Totally understandable that you would be upset by your T not being honest straight away Scarlett. It sounds like she was kinda 'caught out' telling a white lie as such and realized it was better to tell the truth but at that point the damage had been done.

As others said it is likely she did this to protect you from the feelings or perhaps protect herself from having to deal with that or maybe both or something else. Either way you are still hurting and the trust has been shaken.

If it was my T it would make me question what else did they were willing to lie about to save face, save my feelings or protect themselves and I like you value honesty and openness over anything. It is a seemingly small thing to many but I can understand why it would cause a big rupture. It will take time and talking about it and your T being willing to accept she made an error and being willing to talk about it to work through it. It might also be helpful to focus on the fact that she is human and made an judgement error in the moment.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I'm sorry this happened Scarlet. I suspect it might be the lying that's most upsetting to you--I know it would upset me. I think, as others said, she may have been flustered and concerned about hurting you, so she figured it would be better to lie, not knowing you knew her car. So she wasn't doing that intentionally to hurt you, but was trying to look out for you.

Plus, like you said, she didn't know her H was going to be there, so couldn't have warned you in advance or asked him to stay away during that time. I suspect maybe she's a bit annoyed at him for being there and leading to this conflict.

I imagine it would also be difficult for me to see Dr. T's wife at his office. She did call during a session earlier this year when there was a tornado warning, and she wanted him to leave his office and go to an area without windows. He sat talking on the phone with her for a minute or two in front of me. I couldn't really hear what she was specifically saying, but got a sense of her voice. It was awkward for me, as it felt like she was intruding on my session--at the very least, Dr. T could have said, "Hang on, I need to take this" and stepped in the hallway.

I did talk a little at one point about why it bothered me, but I'm not sure he fully understood. So the fact that a phone call bothered me suggests it would definitely affect me if she showed up there, like if she was walking out of the office as I was walking in because she had to take something to him. I know what she looks like because she was a member of a Facebook group I'm in and I saw her profile picture (he knows this)--so that would be a case where if Dr. T was like "Maybe that wasn't my wife," assuming she doesn't have a twin sister, I would know he was lying, and it would really bother me.

Sorry, that ended up being too much about me. Mostly just trying to say I get why you had the reaction, both to seeing him (without any warning) and to L lying about it. I'm glad J was helpful, and I think you'll be able to work through this with L.

Yes, both upset me, but her lying... I have ended relationships for lying. To me if feels like a betrayal. It breaks my trust. But I am communicating with her. I haven't threatened to end the relationship in anyway. I'm waiting to hear her side. I think that in itself is progress.

She actually could have told him to leave right away. I giess she assumed he would?

You can add your personal experiences. It helps me to know that you understand and can relate!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by InkyBooky

I'm sorry you feel betrayed, but maybe it will help if you frame it as "my T is a good person who tries to protect the people she cares about" rather than framing it as a "lie" with some sort of intent to deceive on her part.

In this instance she was simply caught between trying to protect her husband (his privacy) and trying to protect your feelings as well. Sure, maybe she stumbled a little because she was caught off guard, but ultimately it sounds like her intention was to protect.

I can understand your point. She didn't lie to intentionally hurt me. But what I think you're missing is the "honesty first" part. We have agreed to always be honest first, even if honesty hurts. Because we have a strong relationship and can work through it. So if she was trying to protect me, it goes against our agreement still.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by Rive.

She should have been honest with you. In my book, not wanting to upset you, is not reason enough. Honesty and truth are more important.

Yes, her husband is perfectly entitled to be there but her trying to manage you/your feelings as if you were a little kid is disrespectful and invalidating. She messed up.

Thank you. Yes, honesty and truth are more important than sparring me my feelings. Especially because I already knew it was him...or at least was pretty certain. I had been crying my eyes out already for like 30mins over it being him before she finally admitted it.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by AliceKate

If she assumed he was already gone, perhaps it was not a lie at all? She could have pondered the possibility of you spotting a man in a similar, not her own car, so "I don't know" might have been an honest reply born from confusion? Just a thought.

Could be. But then later she admitted it was him. That's what leads me to believe she knew all along.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by smileygal

Totally understandable that you would be upset by your T not being honest straight away Scarlett. It sounds like she was kinda 'caught out' telling a white lie as such and realized it was better to tell the truth but at that point the damage had been done.

As others said it is likely she did this to protect you from the feelings or perhaps protect herself from having to deal with that or maybe both or something else. Either way you are still hurting and the trust has been shaken.

If it was my T it would make me question what else did they were willing to lie about to save face, save my feelings or protect themselves and I like you value honesty and openness over anything. It is a seemingly small thing to many but I can understand why it would cause a big rupture. It will take time and talking about it and your T being willing to accept she made an error and being willing to talk about it to work through it. It might also be helpful to focus on the fact that she is human and made an judgement error in the moment.

Thank you for understanding. I do question what is truth and what is a lie now. It sucks. Most the evidence I have about her is dependent on trust and honesty. Like when she says she loves me, does she mean it? Or that she won't abandon me? Or what other stuff has she tried to protect me from (if that's what she was doing).

I know she's human. I know she makes mistakes. I make mistakes! We work through those mistakes. This seems bigger because it affects to core of our foundation of our relationship.

L is willing to share with me what was going on for her. I'm waiting for her response which she said she'll tell me. She is willing to own her part and try to work through this. At least she's is trying.

[ScarletPimpernel]

She still hasn't written me back and it's been 7 hours since we communicated. I know I need to be patient because technically she's not bacl full-time, AND her wording was do I want to know 'now' before session on Tuesday. I know 'now' didn't mean that instant, but I thought it might be sooner. It's hard to sit with this.

[elisewin]

I understand not being told the truth right away feels annoying.

But what does it matter to you who visits the office? You don't need to know things like that if the people don't appear in the middle of your session interrupting it. We are not supposed to know that much about other people in therapist's office. It is a very private place for obvious reasons. They might be clients or other people that have right for privacy, like family members who have some important business there. Maybe instead of stumbling she should have just told you that she can't tell you this for privacy reasons? Do you think it would have made you feel better?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Okay. Can we not focus on that he was there? He wasn't inside the building. He was inside her car. I get that some of you are into telling me my feelings about him being there aren't valid. But the thread (which is even in the title) is about her denying it was him when she clearly knew who it was.

[elisewin]

When writing in a public conversational forum, it is impossible to completely control the views and thoughts others share. Maybe a private diary would work better if feedback and thoughts not concentrating entirely on what you wish for are not welcome?