[chaotic13]

I’m squirming more than usual in therapy recently. Mainly because I’ve realized that the stage has been set and it’s time to talk about and come to terms with a relationship that I have been avoiding for a long time.

As I assess my position and the therapeutic relationship between my T and me, I find myself continually trying to discount or dispel the notion that a relationship or connection even exists. Over the past few months I’ve tried very hard to dehumanize both myself and my T in an effort to prove that this relationship is not healthy for me and is not safe. My hypothesis: T is not trustworthy and wants to torture and harm me. The evidence however is mounting that this hypothesis is false. As I repeatedly review every detail of her dealings with me, I realize many subtle and not so subtle things that she has done since the very beginning of therapy to create a safe place for me. It must be very frustrating for a T to work this hard only to have a patient continue to doubt you.

What things does your T do to make you feel safe?

[Perna]

One of the biggest things I learned from my T was that the sky is not falling. I was chicken little with anxiety about everything but my T was always quiet, soft spoken, etc. I finally realized that either the sky was not falling or my T was crazy I opted for believing the sky wasn't falling.

McKell, what sorts of things does your T do to make you feel safe?

My T know the right moments to make me laugh. He totally gets my sense of humor and can match me with that.

He looks into my eyes.

He says things like, "No matter what decision you make on this, I will be with you no matter what."

He calls me back regardless of how many freaking times I have called him. He encourages more calls if I need them.

He never lets me forget how much he truly enjoys working with me.

All of these things make me feel safe and securely attached to him.

[chaotic13]

I'm realizing more and more things as I go. Some of them I think are likely done for every patient as part of good therapy but others that I've identified seem to be more individualized. There are still others that she may not be aware she is doing it, but I notice.

For one thing she has avoided firm stances. She states her option but in a calm and even tone.

She is very consistent in the way she deals with me. This helps a lot. Especially when my brain starts with the paranoid assumptions. When I go back a evaluate these assumptions I find this consistency and realize that my I'm likely making false assumption.

Just physical presence. I realize now that from the first day she allowed me to set the physical distance between us. Even when she moves around in the room, she doesn't threaten my space. This sounds stupid now that I know her better, but it made a big difference in the beginning.

I was very upset a few sessions ago at the way she handled one of the things I wrote. I my view what I wrote was very disturbing and very different than other things I had written. I initially felt attacked, but later as I thought about it I realize that she was treating it that same way as all my other writings. This dispelled the notion that she was attacking me with it. Then when I verbalize that her actions upset me, she responded and tried to ease my discomfort BUT didn't apologize for her actions. This was important, I felt like I was heard and responded to but also realized that if I want the rules to change I need to say so clearly.

There are just a lot of things that seem like they are a direct effort on her part to make therapy safe making it hard for me to refuse to participate because I fear it is unsafe.

[Kiya]

the consistancy of t makes me feel safe. and how much she wants me to be safe and not SI and to call her before i do SI.

[chaotic13]

.... the sky is not falling, Yes I've learned this lesson too. Kiya, I never realized how important consistency and predictability were to me before this interaction.

Other little things:
-- accepting a the disclosure about a poor choice made in therapy without lecturing me about it. (I hate being lectured!)

-- carrying out what I've asked for, even if I get angry about it.

-- being receptive enough to sense when I would like an earlier appointment and offering me one without making me ask for it.

mckell.. we share something in what you said.. after all the good things you still felt "attacked" after one thing did not add up to the perfect score... yes? Yeah, me too. i feel bad about it but i see i am doing it at all i guess... it's sad when we disover that we're not as "in control" and cool as we thought. (at least for me)

T makes me laugh, or laughs at stuff i say that strikes him funny... he knows how much i like that. He tells me he eats bunnies (chocolate variety). He swears bc he knows i prefer him to be real and that being real makes me feel more at ease. He cares... and even though he prefers i add up the sum of his actions instead of asking him.. he does care. He puts more into it than required by the exact letter, you know? There isn't an ejection button set to 50minutes... when he feels i need something he gives it to me... the debate becomes about agreeing on what i need exactly.

something i see in your last post that i dont think i have quite seen before is a layer of anger mckell... read those three statements again... being lecture, getting angry, *making* you ask for it... i will ask you rhetorically to think about those.. they don't seem related to the character of your T... meaning, her responses and actions seem to be read to you as having avoided triggers successfully, so where do those triggers come from? Let me explain... i'll pick the last one.. at the very beginning i too was nervous about having to ask about appts but that was because of the last T and how he had used timeframe in a poor way...it left me very skittish about it... but it didn't take long at all for me to get past that (mostly)... so i ask you, and myself for the "mostly" part, where does this bitter feeling come from? Who made you feel like you were being "made" to ask for such a simple thing? Who withheld what is taken for granted?

lots of people aren't offered earlier appts, even if they really obviously need them... and not because the t wants to make them ask... and in lots of cases that thought wouldn't enter either of their heads... because it isn't their issue. Blessings to your T for understanding this about you! Recognize that she isn't a mind reader tho k? Maybe give her an extra smiley face? How about next time you need one.. just beat her to it...ask? Trust her enough to know she would have offered it if she knew you needed it anyway... and trust her enough to accept that if she didn't offer it's because she missed the cue and not something bad.

ok..crap... i think i just lectured all over your first point. oops

[chaotic13]

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MzJelloFluff said:
... it's sad when we disover that we're not as "in control" and cool as we thought. (at least for me)

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Yes! I like to THINK I'm in control. :-)
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they don't seem related to the character of your T... meaning, her responses and actions seem to be read to you as having avoided triggers successfully, so where do those triggers come from?

Who made you feel like you were being "made" to ask for such a simple thing? Who withheld what is taken for granted?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't know. But you gals have recognized this in other posts I've made. I don't seem to be able to see it myself. I just can't seem to grasp that I am worth spending time on, that my needs or wants are important. I don't know where I learned this, but it is obviously deeply embedded.

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lots of people aren't offered earlier appts, even if they really obviously need them... and not because the t wants to make them ask... and in lots of cases that thought wouldn't enter either of their heads... because it isn't their issue.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Soo.... in my statement I am assuming that my T doesn't want to work with me and will only do so if I directly ask for her attention. Is this perspective really unique? Do most people ask freely for additional appointments without worrying about if you really "need" them or if your T will think that you are being too needy?

I know this issue was raised in another thread: Is the want or need for good conversation enough to warrant a T's attention? Obviously, I haven't been able to solve this conflict/ distortion of reality.

I feel like a burden when I ask for something. Jello I understand your statement regarding the character of my T. She doesn't seem to be treating me like a burden; therefore me feeling like one is coming from some where else (....transference/projection).

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Recognize that she isn't a mind reader tho k?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
No, no, no you are wrong MY T is a mind reader! :-)

I still have some work to.

[sunrise]

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What things does your T do to make you feel safe?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">He sometimes directly asks me, "what can I do to make you feel safe?" I like that. Because he can't know everything that will help me, because I'm unique. So I like that he asks. Simple.

I have asked him before to turn down the lights, and he complied.

Also, the way he looks in my eyes, and I see his warmth and caring.

I think having a mutualistic relationship makes it "safe" for me to share, so he self discloses to foster that.

The thing that does not make me feel safe is that we no longer have confidentiality. It can really make me insecure. I try to push it away, but it lurks.

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mckell13 said:
Soo.... in my statement I am assuming that my T doesn't want to work with me and will only do so if I directly ask for her attention.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">This reminds me that two sessions ago, when we were talking about my protector male ego state, I was telling T that this male was mad at him for ignoring my teen ego state. And T asked me to tell the male, that yes, he has seen the teen, but he has to be invited (to interact with her or talk about that time in my life). And thinking back on it, I have never invited him into that part of my life. I have just dropped hints and expected him to just jump to. And he is saying he needs more of an invitation. There was something very respectful of my boundaries in that statement, and something empowering to me. I need to ask, *******it! So anyway, McKell, this reminded me of what you wrote, and I think there is some truth there--that we need to directly ask. And there is nothing wrong with that. It is a pattern in my life that I am scared to ask for what I need, and therapy is a safe a place as it's going to get to practice that skill.

mckell... i'm sorry.. i was just trying to be helpful

[chaotic13]

Sunrise, the confidentiality issue would make me feel very unsafe. ((()))

I know I need to ask, invite, and convince myself that it is OK. I don't understand why this is so difficult for me to grasp. As you mentioned this is as safe as it gets.

You mentioned the ego state... last session I said.. 'you know sometimes you ask me stuff and the me who comes to therapy has no idea what you are asking.' 'Then when I get home and an inner me takes over and knows exactly what you were asking.' She then asked to describe the different modes in which I operate. She didn't call them ego states, it was more like.. describe yourself/ traits you have in different roles. Do you think she is talking about ego states or is this something different?

[chaotic13]

Jello,
I found your post very helpful. It made me recognize an assumption that I continually make but can't seem to see myself. You did help.

[sunrise]

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mckell13 said:
You mentioned the ego state... last session I said.. 'you know sometimes you ask me stuff and the me who comes to therapy has no idea what you are asking.' 'Then when I get home and an inner me takes over and knows exactly what you were asking.' She then asked to describe the different modes in which I operate. She didn't call them ego states, it was more like.. describe yourself/ traits you have in different roles. Do you think she is talking about ego states or is this something different?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Why don't you ask her? I tend to think of my ego states as specific earlier parts of me that split off due to trauma. They are a specific age with specific memories and a specific appearance. The appearance of my adult male ego state threw that conception out the window, though, since he is obviously not the me of a younger age. He seems to have his own personality, thoughts and feelings. He was very real to me. So there is this aspect of "personality" to my ego states. However, my therapist has a much broader definition than I seem to. For example, he told me you can have an ego state wrapped around something as simple as "the feelings I get when I watch beautiful sunsets." Or an ego state organized around working and carrying out responsibilities at one's job. So, I don't know. I think my definition is too limited. I think what you describe might fit in the broad definition given by my T. Ask your own T! I would be curious to know what she says.

[Flowerb]

The first time my therapist went on vacation he asked me if I wanted something from his office to help me hold on to him. I was pretty regressed and super attached but still struggling with admitting this. So I couldn't bring myself to ask for anything. The session before he left he gave me something personal of his and his picture. He wrote on the back, "I'll be back - I promise."

No one had ever just done something like that for me before. I'm pretty strong and in charge, so to have someone see the need and be so tender about it - that made me feel safe.

I have lots of examples but this is my favorite.

I think safety ebbs and flows like everything else. But if you take a risk with her and show your vulnerability - have that conversation that is so scary - I think you'll find that the safety expands and wraps around you. And it is so worth it...

[Kiya]

MzJello Fluff - I think you were helpful - (i may be reading into this too much) I think mckell's sense of humor is sarcastic like my own.
mekell - you wrote:
I feel like a burden when I ask for something. Jello I understand your statement regarding the character of my T. She doesn't seem to be treating me like a burden; therefore me feeling like one is coming from some where else (....transference/projection).
that's me too. i feel like a burden to my t. i know she didn't have extra time to see me and she took me in anyway. she only had one day time slot and when i got work she saw me at night. she's creating a time for me, she wants me to call her instead of SIing.... who gave her this much lisance to care about me?! it freaks me out some. on the calling thing, she kept saying "call me if things get bad" so i finally emailed and asked her to please respond - does she want me to call before i act on the urges to si and she wrote back Yes. She said she was glad i checked and that was good clear communication with her. !!! that threw me. good clear communication.
kiya

[chaotic13]

Kiya, yes I tend to be a bit sarcastic, especially when I am acknowledging something about myself that I missed. One of the things I like best about this forum is that people will tell ya when you are blind to something. I viewed Jello's post as pointing out a hint of projection or transference in what I wrote. I didn't see until she pointed out a difference between my earlier posts and later post.

One of your comments struck me.. "who gave her this much license to care about me?! it freaks me out some." EXACTLY! Part of me likes the attention but another part just cannot stand it. Its like a stage light and I want desperately to move out of it sometimes. This reminds me of a characters in A Bugs Life...'the light..the light..zap!" My T's attention doesn't just freak me out some; it freaks me out a lot.

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Flowerb said:
so to have someone see the need and be so tender about it - that made me feel safe.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Yes, this is an unusual experience for me too. I've had people do kind things for me before, but not... stuff targeted at the deeper me. I don't know what it is that make it different. Only instead of feeling safe, I feel confused, not sure how to take it, ..skeptical. Even though when I look at the whole picture logically I should be feeling safe and very cared for. It doesn't make sense to me.

Sunrise, I will ask her about how she defines ego states. I've just been reluctant to ask because I don't want her to think I am analyzing everything SHE does. I am very curious about the process and methods used in therapy. And more recently, how shes figured out what I want at times when I don't even know what I want. Obviously I'm communicating more than I think I'm communicating.

I can also see me getting caught up in this and not actually experiencing therapy. I frequently find myself asking, why did she ask that question?, what was she looking for?, why did she handle this issue this way and not the way I anticipated? Was I wrong for anticipating?.... I am trying hard not to turn therapy into an academic exercise. I'm uncomfortable just chilling out and experiencing interactions. I'm trying hard (but unsuccessfully) to just accept and experience.

[Flowerb]

I have a high need to understand the process of anything I'm involved in too. My therapist knows this so he will explain the process or we debate theory sometimes. He never lets me stay in my head too long, but he knows it is important part of the trust. And I do sometimes use all the questions about what he is doing to keep us away from deeper things. Unfortunately, this never works for very long...I have a very smart T!

[chaotic13]

So Flowerb, one of the little things your T does is meet your need to understand the process BUT not allow it to detract from the actual therapy. This sounds like like a good compromise.

Helping to create balance

[chaotic13]

Here is another thing my T has done/ is doing that I do NOT like, but is probably important.

I've mentioned several times that what makes therapy so difficult for me is that I am not always sure of the rules of engagement. I want a clearly defined set of rules for this therapeutic relationship. A therapeutic relationship manual. I have commented several time about being confused and wanting these rules defined and SHE HAS NOT GIVEN ME THIS!!!!

In one of my earlier session I told my T that I needed to know that she would always be honest with me and when providing insight would alway act in the best interest of me and my children. Even if doing so made me upset or uncomfortable. She agreed to this.

By not giving me the manual I want is important. She is providing what I need, even though I do like it.

[Kiya]

alas, there is no such manual. lol. i, too have asked the same quesion of my t. I'm confused, i need to know how this works... i'm not going any further until i know. not even a look of compassion - just a change of subject. lol

[Merlin]

i want a "when do i call you for an emergency session" manual. generally i have to be completely non-functional before i call my pdoc

[sunrise]

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mckell13 said:
I've mentioned several times that what makes therapy so difficult for me is that I am not always sure of the rules of engagement. I want a clearly defined set of rules for this therapeutic relationship. A therapeutic relationship manual. I have commented several time about being confused and wanting these rules defined and SHE HAS NOT GIVEN ME THIS!!!!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Have you asked for it and she said, "no"? Sometimes my T doesn't get the hints I drop and he really likes me to learn to be able to clearly ask for what I need. So sometimes he won't "bite" when I drop hints. And if your T has said "no", can you ask her why not? All T's should give the basics in the informed consent form you sign on the first day. If you don't have a copy of this, ask for one. Beyond that, you should be able to ask specific questions about the therapeutic frame and get a straight answer. Such as, "how many sessions a week can I have?", "under what circumstances can I call you between sessions?", "how often can I call?", "how long can the calls be?", "do you charge extra for calls?", "can I email you between sessions?", "how often?", etc. It seems like all of those can be answerable and I see it so often here on PC that people don't know the answers to these questions and it causes them untold grief. (Not that I know all the answers to these questions for my own T, but I am getting better at asking him stuff that is not spelled out in the consent form. For example, a couple of weeks ago, he gave me 3 choices for appointment times the following week, but I had left my calendar in my car. I asked him could I go down to my car and send a text message to his cell phone telling him my choice. He said "no." Whoopsie. I learned a new rule.)

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alas, there is no such manual. lol. i, too have asked the same quesion of my t. I'm confused, i need to know how this works... i'm not going any further until i know. not even a look of compassion - just a change of subject.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I am really puzzled by that, Kiya. Why would your T not answer?

[ECHOES]

I think wanting a manual may speak to trust issues, and certainly to security issues which I think are related.
Therapy can be ambiguous and trust is needed to 'just do it' sometimes. I think that's when trust became an ally for me, when I could see that choosing to trust could expand the experience, widen the somewhat narrow protective limits and boundaries I had (silently) set up and was adhering to. They created a lot of uneasiness, hesitancy, and fears in me.

Someone told me once to look at therapy as a really interesting book that we read with wonder and curiosity about what happens next and how it will turn out

[chaotic13]

Echoes,
I think my wanting to outline specific rules of engagement is likely linked to trust and my desire for consistency. Sunrise, no have have not asked for a manual. I did at one point send her a list items to directly check if I was understanding both of our roles in therapy. I stated I wanted to be clear and wanted to make sure the assumptions I was making were appropriate. She kindly went through each item during the session and confirmed that my assumptions and expectations were correct.

Honestly, the things that make me most uncomfortable is the relationship itself. Since it is so different from other relationship I'm having trouble. I think she is not giving me what I want because I need to learn for myself how to deal with creating and maintaining close relationships. So she is just playing along.

[Kiya]

Sunrise - I think it was because therapy is a "just do it" kind of thing. one learns in the doing and i wanted it spilled out before me. her changing the subject came with the slightest of wry smiles and i think a grain of salt... this was 2 t's ago.