[dalila]

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We had a good session with my dd, dd even talked and worked on herself.

Then Dr. K took her usual 10-minute break and regroup time, when she came back she seemed upset but just asked for a couple of minutes. Her office is ‘L’ shaped and she was over in the part behind me. I glanced back and she was crying a bit. She said she would be ok, just give her a moment. So I turned away and said nothing. I struggled with my own tears cos it ripped my heart up to see her hurting.

She got herself together and started my session. I believe that she saw I was concerned and so she told me she was sorry about being upset. There had been a problem with one of the other therapists in her office and as the boss she had had to fire the other one. The other one had been told to wait till all patients would be gone before moving her things but was there now. Dr. K said she was mad and that was what had made her cry. Well I tried but I couldn’t help my concern and at a point that seemed appropriate to me I asked her if she had a therapist to talk to about stuff. And she started crying again.

I didn’t know what to say or do. Understand she wasn’t weeping big or hard but teared up and struggling to stop there. She seemed embarrassed and looked away. She acknowledged that it touched her that I was concerned about her and that she would be ok. Again I felt that I needed to give her space to deal with it and looked away and even started to go away.

The whole time I just wanted to reach out and take her hand or offer a hug, it just didn’t seem the right thing to do.

She pulled it together again and we had what was mostly a normal for us session but I felt out of tune or something. Since this I have felt depressed and disgusted with myself. I love Dr. K and I know she cares about me but instead of acting true to myself I withdrew. I feel like I failed us both.

I just ache with it all. I want to go back to my si, I want to call her but I am afraid to - how can I explain how I feel without making it sound like I blame her for crying. I don’t blame her it is my reactions I am concerned about not hers. She showed me she is human and I feel like I rejected it. I want to be closer to her and look how I responded to it!

Stopping here, I have already written a book and am starting to repeat myself. I don’t know if there is anything to be said to all this, just ignore it, k?
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[kim_johnson]

Hey. Wow, what an experience. As I was reading I was wondering how I would have responded in the same circumstance (but with my therapist). I think I would have done the same as you. I would have been torn between wanting to give him some space to manage things himself (and so my trying to be respectful with that) and also between wanting to soothe or comfort him in some way (and so my reaching out to him with some words or gesture). I expect... I would have given him space because when I'm not sure what to do my default is nothing.

I'm sure she would have seen the look of compassion and gentle concern on your face similarly to how you see that in her sometimes. I think that sometimes therapists struggle with the same thing with us - with figuring out the best way to respond to us when we are upset. With whether they should say something soothing or whether they should respectfully be quiet so that we can process things alongside them sometimes.

[Kiya]

Dalila - maybe you can take your post and give it to her?

Dalila, I am really sorry that you are struggling with this. You are carrying a great amount of guilt for something that you had nothing to do with. The title of your post is "I Made My Therapist Cry." Nowhere in this post do I see that you did anything to make your therapist cry. Your therapist seemed to be crying over something completely separate.

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I struggled with my own tears cos it ripped my heart up to see her hurting.

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This is really nice, Dailia. I'm sure your therapist appreciated the empathy that you are able to feel towards her It shows that you really care.

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Well I tried but I couldn’t help my concern and at a point that seemed appropriate to me I asked her if she had a therapist to talk to about stuff. And she started crying again.

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As patients, although we do care a great deal for our therapists, it is never our responsibility to feel like we need to care of them.

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I feel like I failed us both.

I just ache with it all. I want to go back to my si, I want to call her but I am afraid to - how can I explain how I feel without making it sound like I blame her for crying. I don’t blame her it is my reactions I am concerned about not hers. She showed me she is human and I feel like I rejected it. I want

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There is a fine line between a therapist showing that he/she is human and bringing too much of him/herself into the session. As a result of what happened, you are feeling responsible, like a failure to your therapist, like your rejecting your therapist, and like you want to SI. You should never have to feel like this as a result of what your therapist brings into the session. It sounds as though you and Dr. K have a really great relationship-- this is something that the two of you can process together. Therapy is about the client, not the therapist, and a certain amount of discretion must be used, on the part of the therapist, in regards to what emotions he/she discloses in the room.

Personally, I would be really angry at my T if something similar happened. I would definitely feel empathy towards him because I wouldn't want him to feel that type of hurt, but I would also be really angry that he couldn't separate his own issues from my therapy session.

You DID NOT make your therapist cry. You ARE NOT responsible for making her feel better. She is responsible for keeping her own emotions in check in order to focus on yyou. You say that you are afraid to call her because you don't want to blame her for crying-- you are entitled to whatever emotional response that you have. This is about you.

[chaotic13]

Dalila
I think you handled this situation fine. And as others have stated YOU DID NOT MAKE HER CRY. You showed compassion and your willingness to put your needs aside for someone else who you care about who is in distress. You also must have shown some genuine acceptance of your T even if she was not in her professional state of emotional control. If anything you simply allowed her to cry. This was an opportunity to demonstrate that you care about your T and I think you did just that.

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pinksoil said:
She is responsible for keeping her own emotions in check in order to focus on you.

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Pink I read this line and my initial response is...This is my biggest problem right now. I do this so well that it has become automatic and I can't not do it. I understand that T's are expected to regulate their personal emotions (especially ones that relate to the patient or patient's situation). My T has told me emotions are not good or bad, that I shouldn't suppress them or ignore them, I should feel comfortable crying or expressing ("Emoting") in front of people...emotions are normal human responses...blah...blah. .blah.. I understand that you can't let it all bleed out while at work, but isn't this a bit hypocritical?

Maybe her T, when she realized that she was having trouble should have explained the situation, that it had nothing to do with Dalila, and then asked her if she could reschedule for another time. Seeing my T emote might actually help me lighten up a bit. Kind of like ... "See its OK to cry--I'm doing it." kind of way.

Dalila, maybe you gave your T more than you think. You were a patient that cared enough to allow your T to still try and help you, even when she wasn't at her best. Sometimes the best cure for sadness is being able to help someone else.

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chaotic13 said:

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pinksoil said:
She is responsible for keeping her own emotions in check in order to focus on you.

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Pink I read this line and my initial response is...This is my biggest problem right now. I do this so well that it has become automatic and I can't not do it. I understand that T's are expected to regulate their personal emotions (especially ones that relate to the patient or patient's situation). My T has told me emotions are not good or bad, that I shouldn't suppress them or ignore them, I should feel comfortable crying or expressing ("Emoting") in front of people...emotions are normal human responses...blah...blah. .blah.. I understand that you can't let it all bleed out while at work, but isn't this a bit hypocritical?

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I don't think so, because there nature of the therapeutic situation is that the client is the one to be focused on. The therapist should, of course, show a human side to his/herself, but there has to a line drawn so that it does not add to the upset for the client. Many of us already struggle with a great deal of guilt and helplessness. As a therapist, you have to be aware of what you are bringing into that room, and how it is going to affect your client. The client is the #1 priority in that room for those 50 minutes, or however long you see your therapist.

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Maybe her T, when she realized that she was having trouble should have explained the situation, that it had nothing to do with Dalila, and then asked her if she could reschedule for another time.

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I agree that this could have been a better approach if her T absolutely could not help what happened.

I have seen my T emote before-- but it has always been with me as the focus. He has admitted countertansference ot me and, at times, has told me that I have shared with him has made him feel like crying, has gotten him angry,etc. These are the type of emotinal disclosures that are appropriate in therapy.

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Dalila, maybe you gave your T more than you think. You were a patient that cared enough to allow your T to still try and help you, even when she wasn't at her best.

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I couldn't agree more. Most patients would not have reacted in the caring and calm way that you did. Again, that was not your responsibility to do so, but you did. I know my reaction would have been very different.

[chaotic13]

Pink I see your point on the T ultimate priority, "above all do no harm".

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Pinksoil said: Most patients would not have reacted in the caring and calm way that you did.

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I agree, I think Dalila handle the situation very well. Honestly, if my T actually cried, my already high anxiety would have gone off the scale. I'd have probably been like, "hey your having a rough day, I'll re-schedule, good luck with that, bye."

[kim_johnson]

I'm not sure about the rescheduling... If that had happened I would have been even more likely to think that I was the cause of the negative emotional response. It was an unfortunate situation, but it sounds like the therapist did everything within their power to prevent the situation from being damaging. Firstly, the therapist tried to prevent the situation by asking the other therapist to not collect their stuff until after the clients had left for the day. I'm not surprised that she was angry with that therapist for not doing what was asked. It was disrespectful both to your therapist and also to you. I wonder if that was why that therapist had to be let go - because they weren't appropriately respectful of clients.

Secondly, she attempted to manage her emotional state such that you wouldn't notice that she was upset. She moved away from you and (by the sounds of it) did her best to put what was happening to one side in order to focus on you.

Thirdly, when you did in fact notice (sensitive clients have this uncanny ability to intuit the emotional feelings of others, especially including their therapists) she was able to honestly disclose the nature of her emotional state (anger) and the reason for her emotional state (the actions of this other therapist). It is a tough call from a therapists point of view... Some therapists would have refused to say anything at all about their emotional state and / or the cause of their emotional state - instead turning the question back on you as to what you thought they were feeling and the reasons why you thought they felt that way and what all that meant to you. Personally... That kind of strategy in a therapist would drive me absolutely crazy - ESPECIALLY when it was so bloody obvious that she was in a fairly intense emotional state (and it wasn't a projection from you).

In that circumstance I would have been inclined to take it personally and to think that the therapist was angry with me. I think she did the right thing in telling you how she was feeling (thus validating your intuiting that she wasn't okay). I also think she did the right thing in telling you why she was feeling that way (thus making it very clear that her emotion wasn't a reaction to you - it was a reaction to this other therapist disrespecting her and her clients so).

That being said therapy is indeed a place for you to process your responses :-) So... I think it would be worth processing how you are feeling in response to this. Not at all to condemn or blame her with the way she dealt with events (I think she did everything right with respect to the unfortunate situation), but with respect to this tapping into deeper issues for you. Do you typically think that other peoples negative emotional responses are caused by you? Do you typically have trouble knowing how best to comfort people when they are upset? etc etc etc. I do think it is possible to talk about and process some of this without at all blaming her or condemning her or making her feel bad...

[crazybones]

you know i was reading this and from my view there is no reason to sorta hide from her you were concerned i bet that made feel a bit better knowing that somebody actually worried about her for a change and a simple way to let her know how you feel after that meeting would be just to explain that you feel this way becuase of the awkwardness or w/e at the last meeting and i am sure with her line of work she would be more then willing to sit down and chat with you maybe not at that time becuase she was becoming to emotional but thats because she probably felt she was also un perfessional which is a big thing for most people but sitting there with thoughts of such sorts just bottled up is not good express your self with her if you can

[dalila]

<font color="green">I want to thank you all for your responses. You made me think. I have been changing meds and so been depressed forever it seems. Everything becomes so much more than it needs to be.
Please understand that she mostly just teared up, it was not a weeping thing just wet eyes and a few tears escaping. No more than 5 minutes if you counted both times. I know the first time it had nothing to do with me, but the second time it was in direct response to my question and show of concern. She had dealt with it and was ready to work with me. I just can’t help myself – in my mind everyone and anyone else comes first before me. I care too much and I hurt for everyone else but not much for me. I am learning little by little but it is hard. I was not important as a child. I don’t know how to . . . to not care except to totally shut down.
I know my therapist or I think I do and I don’t believe she would have let me hug her or anything. However by backing off I struggled with dissociating. When someone I care about is hurting my mothering instincts come out. I have learned that most adults do not want to be mothered. But I have not figured out how or what to do instead.
You all are right I need to talk to my therapist about this, but I am scared. What if I do it wrong? What if she is hurt and so rejects me? What if she takes this as meaning that I don’t want to be close to her? That I cannot accept her as a human only as a therapist? I know I have her on a pedestal to some extent, but I think I see her as a person too. I guess I am just making myself crazy.
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[Edahn]

Nice work. (Not making her cry, but the way you reacted.) Very calm and cool, and not overbearing. If you want to call her, I think that's totally cool. She might be resistant to letting you take the role of HER therapist, or her buddy, but it's nice to show concern. After that, I'd let it go.

*thumbs up to you*

[Rapunzel]

You did nothing wrong, and your feelings about what happened are understandable. You will be able to process this when you talk to your therapist about it, and I'm sure that it will be ok. What happened sounds like just a little bit of a role-reversal, only both of you stopped before you actually assumed the role of taking care of your therapist, as you felt inclined to do. Therapists are human, and have feelings and things that they can get upset about. The difference between the therapist and the client is essentially that while you are the client it is your turn to get the therapy. There is something about reversing roles that is countertherapeutic, because you shouldn't have to take care of your therapist, any more than a child should have to take care of a parent. It can be damaging when someone who is supposed to be taking care of you needs you to take care of them. But she did get it together, and you didn't have to take care of her. You just got a glimpse of her humanity, and there is nothing wrong with that. But the awkwardness comes from getting so close to a role reversal, and the confusion of wanting to comfort someone you care about who is hurting. We don't like it when our therapists, or our parents, etc. hurt. And it is confusing to want to make them better when it isn't our job.

[dalila]

<font color="green">I saw my therapist today and she agrees with most of you. She very plainly told me it is not my job to take care of her and it is her job to take care of me. She said what I did was the right thing and I should look at it as behaving a new way.

She affirmed that she cares about me and is not going to kick me out - I have to get well first. lol.

She wants me to work on affirmations. Yuk, but I really do need to do something. She wants me to write my own cos then they will mean more to me. </font>

[chaotic13]

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She wants me to work on affirmations.

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What does this actually mean. Are you going to have to pat yourself on the back, look in a mirror and tell yourself how great you are?

[sunrise]

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dalila said:
<font color="green">[b]She wants me to work on affirmations.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Do you find this helps you? This form of therapy does not work on me so we don't spend time on it. I am just curious if it really works for anyone.

It sounds like that was a good session, dalila--always wonderful to hear your therapist cares for you.

My T.. had always told me that he was responsible for his own feelings.. and while "in session" should be "in balance"... for the therauptic session to be as it should..

I know we are all human... and I feel for your T's pain...

I feel much... much more for you... such a very difficult position that you were placed in.. and you handled it so very well...

My MD... once came in to treat me.. upset.. like your T.. and told me the "whole story"... of what had just happened... and I withdrew.. because.. I was there for help... not to comfort her.. because another patient.. had just been there are screamed at her.. I am a kind person.. but... it just wasn't... comfortable for me...I often thought about that day.... and I wish.. that she had just cancelled her afternoon appts.. and gotten herself together... it would have cause me less damage.. the things she told me.. made me doubt her competance as a MD..

So.. I may be in the minority here... knowing you care deeply about your T... I just wish she had handled things differently... as it had to be difficult for you... and difficult for you now...I wish... she had..cancelled... though hard.. in the middle.. perhaps better..

my thoughts are with you...

Dalila

I'm so glad that your therapist was there for you at your next session, and that you were able to process what happened.

As for the affirmations, I just can't do that. I do know that it works for some people, but it feels kind of fake to me. Although, my usual negative self-talk isn't really getting me anywhere, now that I think about it. Hmmm. I guess that's something for me to think a little more about!

[Mouse_]

Dalila, Sounds to me that you were a comforting presence in your T's "meltdown"...I know T's are supposed to be there for us and us not there for them, and I don't think you had to be there for her as such, but it does mirror life sometimes and this experience will one day come in handy in outside life don't you feel?...to have to feel that anxiety and uncertainty in T will feel like a doddle if you say were confronted with this senario with a work collegue or friend? OH well thats just my thoughts on it.

[dalila]

<font color="green">Affirmations in the way she has taught me are simple sentences that I am to tell myself [in front of the mirror at times] to counteract all the negative self talk and old tapes in my head.

They have to be without negatives cos your brain doesn't get the nots in them so you don't want to say -- I will not SI. I am not garbage.

Instead of I am an idiot; I am smart.
I can write good poems. I take nice pictures. I am patient and calm. I was innocent, they were wrong.I can trust my therapist. I can trust myself. I am a valuable person. etc etc ad naeseam.

Therapist said I should work on saying them like I believe them. No giggles or smirks allowed.

I have told her I feel like I am just lying but she says if I do them regularly and more often when the old negatives kick in they will work.

As much as I hate doing them I have had some good results with them. I sort of like me where before I tried affirmations I hated and despised me. I was able to reach out to my dh more and find support with him too.

Change is hard I suppose that is part of my mental block with affirmations. Personally I feel stupid standing in front of my mirror telling me that I am a valuable person who deserves good things. However my brain does believe that even if my heart asks me -'Are you NUTS????' So I will keep on trying.

Yes, mouse, I am not good at backing off and giving others their space - I feel helpless and like I am being indifferent to their feelings but as Dr. K said some people do not want you in their space. They just want some time and space to pull themselves together. Whatever. We are all different and I want to learn how be appropiate with others no matter how they are. </font>

[(JD)]

Well, it's not a rule that you stand in front of your mirror and no smirks allowed...that is what your T wants.

Any time you can counter a negative, whether in front of your mirror or not, or whether you giggle about it and really don't believe it or not, it will help to counter them (the negative thoughts.)

No, you didn't make your T cry.

Since it was such a short time, IDK that her rescheduling would have done any better for you. I do think her leaving the room for those minutes would have been better.

Getting upset at yourself, and certainly if you had become angry, well that wouldn't have been good either. I think you've realized that maybe it's your sensitivity that made this appear so large? Of course, that's part of why you are in therapy, I'm sure, so if you wish to discuss that aspect of this with your T, and make it a good therapeutic session, that would be good, imo.

Few people would have acted outwardly, any different I think, especially given the short nature of the incident. Yes, Ts are to keep their personal lives to themselves, however this obviously was an "at work, happening now" issue, -and- your T is human (who knew?) so it's really up to you as to whether you received any benefit from your session or not. You did say you numbed out (started to go away) and I am concerned that perhaps her rescheduling might have been better for you.