Emotional abuse?

I am being accused of emotionally abusing my wife, and i am soul searching to see if there is any validity to the claim. Out relationship has been uneasy for a while. I will admit, that when we argue, or fight, thuings are said that are mean, names are called, but we are both guilty of that. My understanding of emotional abuse is consistent belittleing, or humiliating. Or controling, or yelling for no logical reason...and I do not do those things.
Sometimes, when we are argueing, and I am calm, and I say something she does not like, she says I am yelling at her, or putting her dowm, when all i am trying to do is convey my feelings. I know criticism is not easy to hear, but she seems to take them so personally...
We arer now at the point of discussing divorce, and there are kids involved.....
I have been going to counseling for 3 weeks trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong, or what I can do to improve things...she knows this, and is fine with is, but has no desire to join me in the counseling, or get any on her own...i gave her the list of Docs approved thru the insurannce......and she has done nothing....
i am at my wits end.......any advice?

all i can suggest is to continue to work on yourself. get the book, "Dance of Anger" and see if that helps you understand the anger of the relationship. i'm sorry that your wife isn't seeking help. good luck, pat

i've had a few thoughts, since i first read your post. i was emotionally abused for years and years in my marriage. he never raised his voice. he manipulated me, he controlled me and he took away my self-esteem. (i let him) all of that is emotional abuse. abuse doesn't have to be about "loud", "violent" or "name-calling"....it can be subtle and sly........pat

I understand that...I do not control her, I do not manipulate her...she is free to do what she wants (within reason of course!...like no dating).
I give her compliments routinely, her looks, what kind of job she is doing with the kids..etc...
But, i f I ever have to criticise her (she isnt perfect), i have to be very careful how I word it, and it seems even when I am calm, and constructive, and address the issue, not her, she still gets defensive.

So, i know abuse does not have to equate to yelling and screaming...and there are times when we have fought that we have yelled and screamed, and names were called, but they were evenly dished out...

i do pick up on one sentence. see, now i'm nit-picking, just before i go to bed you said you "routinely" give her compliments...do you think that things have pretty become routine and she is sensitive about that? i'd continue with the counselor and pray that she goes to one also. pat

Hi Cramer,
The more you "push" to have your wife stay in the marriage, the more she will run the other way. Yes, I understand that there are children involved and this certainly complicates matters when it comes to ending a marriage. Many women on this board, including myself have been subjected to emotional abuse, and like you acknowledged, it does not have to be yelling or screaming. Being controlled or manipulated really sucks and frequently women just wake up one morning and say, "I'am not going to take it anymore".
If your wife claims that you have been emotionally abusive, then that is her reality. All you can do is deal with her perceptions of the marriage. To deny her feelings is another example of being emotionally abusive or emotionally abandoning her. Both suck.

Hi Cramer welcome to PC.

I think it's great that you have sought therapy. I think that was very courageous. Sometimes during arguments with our spouses things are said that arnt meant to offend, but they do. I would try and talk to your wife about this. Tell her that your wanting to really work on your marriage and make it work and ask her if she feels the same. Tell her that for the sake of the children, you should try to make a go of this. I am a product of a divorced family and I will tell you that it's not just the parents who suffer, it is the children and it hurts. It seems that you are doing all you can and I think you have made some positive steps. Take care and please keep us posted.

Ok...I am trying to understand....in her mind, and heart, by me discounting her feelings about my treatment of her as not being abusive, actually makes it abusive?

There is no doubt there have been times we both have been verbally abusive... and I hate it when we both lose our cool, and say things that neither of us mean.

I guess, a question i have...how likely is it that i am not being abusive, and she is overyl defensive, and/or exagerates the situation?

ironically, some of the "signs" or definitions of verbal/emotional abuse...when I apply them to me...some of her actions seem to fit the role of abuser...is that possible?

Hi Cramer,
Very good questions. Both of you share in the responsibility of being butt-heads in your marriage. Both of you share in the responsibility of saying demeaning things to one another. Both of you are responsible for being proactive (independently) in order to get the tools necessary in order to be civil human beings to one another. Children are better off in a household where the parents respect one another.
Accept that both of you have lots to learn whether you decide to stay married or not. Your children depend on both parents being mature and putting their needs first. True change comes about because both parties are willing to accept responsibility for the failings of the marriage. Blame either way will not solve the fundamental problems of the marriage which include lack of respect toward one another. Let this situation cool off and keep the focus on, "What are the things that I think are important in a marriage?" "What did I like or not like about my parent's relationship?" "I believe a woman should or should not. . ." "Where do I see myself in 10 years from now?" "Am I happy in my current relationship?" "Am I mature and have a good understanding of my own emotional needs?" "Do I have good insight as to my own problems?" "How do I handle stressful situations?"

Hi Cramer,

I've read your thread carefully. I am a guy, with a 25 year marriage, and I nearly lost it two years in and then managed to turn it around. It was worth it. Before it turned I was getting into the situation you describe.

I try not to give straight advice on the boards, in case it comes out as patronising, but I'll tell you what I did.

1. By an effort of will I stopped arguing with my wife. I imagined that everything I said to her was seen by her as frightening (my father used to be frightening in an argument) so I stopped arguing - period.

2. I listened to what she had to say, all the sentences, as openly as I could. I tried to hear what she wanted, not what I thought she wanted.

3. I took all my neediness, my hopes for our marriage, and put them on the backburner. It was one day at a time without conflict, that's all that mattered. Simple everyday things done in a quiet way. I said to myself "I will show my calmness in the home, not my fear or my anger".

4. I gave my wife some space, and took myself out of the house for a few nights of the week, doing something not related to us. It was something challenging that took up a lot of effort, and I put my emotional energy into it.

5. I didn't try to 'get round'her' or win her over in any way, I just started living a more normal life and let her see that I could relax in her presence.

This was bloody hard to do, but after a long time, maybe six months, she came up to me and said, "I do love you."

Cramer, with the help of your counsellor you can do this. Take the heat off, give your wife a holiday, focus your emotions elsewhere, whatever it takes. Then she will maybe be able to see a guy who she can fall in love with again.

If she doesn't come round it will a shame, but at least you'll have given her every chance to really see you without all the issues you have built up between you.

I really hope it works out, especially for your children.

Good luck, Myzen

Hello Cramer --

Reading this thread, I felt that Myzen's response was a breath of fresh air. I felt as if I was in the confusion and pain with you -- maybe he's abusive, maybe he's not -- swirling around in me.

Myzen's approach opened up some emotional distance for me, just reading it.

The two clear thoughts I have are:

1. As part of the "giving her space" approach (should you decide to try it), might you also take the children one or two of those nights? This would build your relationship with them as well as give her some alone-time.

2. Do you two still love each other? I read a lot about wanting to "work" on a relationship. But devoting oneself to working on a relationship, if love is gone, sounds like too much work.

But what do I know about relationships. Haven 't had one nor dated for 2 years. And I don't have any children.

Myzen,
What an awesome post and the most helpful, I might add! You have thrown an incredible lifeline to Cramer.
What a gift!

Thank you for the replies....and insight.
I realize I need to back off, and let her come to the decision on what she wants....and i in no way mean to abandon. We have very busy lives, and i will continue to do the thing that need to be done, and be here for her....but I believe I have made my intentions and feelings heard, and repeating them is not going to do any good.

My wife is a wonderful person, full of love and warmth,and i truly feel wants things to get better, but,as I am, is not sure how to get there, and maybe is afraid, or too proud, or something, that keeps her from seeking help.
One of the things I have said to her in regards to counseling, when she downplays it, doing nothing has not helped, and that we need help...professional help...and that I do not think we can do it alone.

Again, thanks for the support.

Myzen,
Thanks for your take on the situation....
I will take your suggestions, and do the best that I can.
Hearing different views has helped me see things in a different light, and is very much appreciated.

Cramer,

You sound like a good person to me. I wish you well. I find that it helps to talk here on Psych Central so maybe you'll stick around?

Cheers, Myzen

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i've had a few thoughts, since i first read your post. i was emotionally abused for years and years in my marriage. he never raised his voice. he manipulated me, he controlled me and he took away my self-esteem. (i let him) all of that is emotional abuse. abuse doesn't have to be about "loud", "violent" or "name-calling"....it can be subtle and sly........pat

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Hi,

I am new to this group, just joined. I just had to respond to this post because it really caught my attention. I somewhat feel that maybe I have been emotionally abused but to afraid to admit it. I just sent a post about my situation to the group entitled "Marital Problems." I have had low self esteem...my husband hurt me many many times over the years partially do to the internet (porn and chat etc) and he also used to yell at me for forgetting to video tape a tv show (he watches alot of tv) and so forth.
Your post opened my eyes.

Thank You!

Hi I was reading your post about emotional abuse (you posted about 11 years ago now. I am going though this now. Almost exactly. Except I don't actually shout or become verbally abusive, though she often does.

Thank you for this Myzen. I could really do with a chat on this. Could you PM me a no to get you on or I can give you mine? Thanks