Please be sensitive, this is hard to say

I have some questions about marital rape. Is it real, even the times when there is no violence involved? Do wedding vows give implied consent to sex?
What if one partner is sleeping (deep sleep from medication) and the other performs sexual acts on the sleeping one, what is that called? If you don't say no, is that the same as giving consent? When there is violence involved with sex, is that abuse?

I love my spouse, but I hate sex

We have set up this horrible pattern in our marriage and I don't know if the above is me responding because of all the baggage in my life or if somewhere a line was crossed that we need to back off from.

Yes it is real. Marriage is not an excuse to pressure anyone into anything. Your rights to your body do not vanish after you've signed a piece of paper committing to a relationship with another person. And one would think that a spouse would be the one person to understand and stick by your feelings. Sex should not be the foundation of a relationship.
Violence full stop is abuse. And abuse is abuse. Not saying no because you are medicated and can't say no is not consent. Not saying no because you are afraid to is not consent. Someone engaging sexual acts with someone who has not consented is abuse.

I know it is real because my uncle did it to my auntie, hence the reason my youngest cousin was born.

definitely a line has been crossed, CSC. this issue comes up in the courts sometimes. unforunately marital rape happens to some. imho, it is definitely not acceptable!

Maybe you should remove yourself from the situation ? There are places you can go, woman's shelters etc or ask him to leave ?

Hugs to you.

I don't feel like I'm in danger. I guess I feel like I need to explain more. I was very naive about relationships when we first got married. I thought sex was just something I was supposed to do, like doing the laundry or something. I really didn't know I could tell my husband no (stupid, huh?) I never really started to get bad feelings until my youngest son was conceived while I was asleep.
Flash-forward - I spoke to an exT about some of this and she told me to say no. I still didn't feel enough confidence in myself to really follow through so I always gave in, which made things worse.
Current - now current T is applying definitions to these things that happen to encourage me to use my voice, to validate my own needs, etc.

I guess it's easiest for me to comply, maybe I'm just a chicken or maybe I'm afraid of the consequences. Maybe ignorance really is bliss.

I know I played a role in setting up this pattern - going from completely submissive to trying to speak and I think that has thrown my husband out of whack. He is used to me being totally compliant in every aspect of our lives. I guess sex was the wrong place to try to start using my voice ...maybe I'll have better luck if I gradually express day to day things and then move up to the sex things after I've had practice and feel stronger. IDK

I am so sorry you are in this situation I wish I had some really clever advice for you but I do not ...

Hugs to you again.

Yes.marital rape is very very real.((((((((CSC)))))))

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's a horrible situation to be in. I imagine it's never dawned on your husband that this is rape, and it's a hard thing for a man who loves his wife to accept, that he's actually raped her.

After my son was born I was very loath to have sex. I had stiches, and excrutiating pain, and I could barely piss without feeling like I was being stabbed with red hot needles. My son's father "felt rejected," and somehow, I don't know how, we ended up having sex less than a week after my son was born. I cried throughout.

In retrospect, this can't have been anything other than rape, even though I said "Okay, can we get this over with?" I suppose he also found it hard to understand why this was rape, though to me it could be nothing else once the pain started. (And believe me, it started.)

It's not the same as your situation, CSC, but there's some common ground. A man can cross the line, without really noticing, and frankly it's his responsibilitly as the one with the dck to make damned sure he isn't over the line. A man who has genuinely crossed the line by accident should immediately be repentant when he realises what he's done.

As you've probably guessed, I believe in marital rape. And no, it's not your fault.

He tore out the stitches after the episiotomy from my 2nd son because it was too soon.. I think that scared him. When I went to doc to repair stitches...doc lectured me in front of my husband.
I have such a skewed view of sex in general, that started long before him, I have allowed so many things for so many years...it is so confusing to start questioning them now
I think a lot of it is that he just doesn't understand...sex is so pleasurable and meaningful to him, he can't fathom it not being that way for me

My ex partner tore three stitches out me when we had sex after my son was born... I had three stitches in my clitoris, from a previous injury. I was spared the humiliation of being blamed for what he'd done, and I can't imagine how humiliating that was for you.

It's interesting what you say about your husband having a purely positive experience fo sex, and finding it hard to imagine any other attitude to it. We have to remember that to folks who haven't been injured the world is a better place. From what I've read (and I may be wrong) I don't think he means to abuse you. Couples therapy might help.

And I so wish your doctor had lectured your husband instead of you.

Oh my God,my husband did that after both the births of his boys...I can't believe I am reading this! Honestly i had no idea that happened to anyone else.And the damage hurts every time.Can I just insert here,that sex isn't necessarily the issue here so much as regard and tenderness and cherishing you is? Sex can be pleasurable,if you felt tenderly cherished,and warmly loved.I am soooo sorry to read that someone knows this trauma.My heart reaches out to you.CSC

I really REALLY don't understand why some people think it's okay to violate another persons body. They must think sex is a right to them, rather than something you share via consent with someone else.

I can't believe this has happened to all THREE of you in this thread.

Hey, I'm sorry this is happening to you. Although I don't feel like I'm qualified to give you any advice, I do understand you not being able to say no as I have gone through that in the past and am slowly learning to set boundries.

And yes I can understand your feelings around thinking "well its been this way for so long, what would he think if i all of a sudden say no?".

So, I guess the thing is, you have to choose between trampling your own feelings or his... and yes it can be hard to say no, because you're used to not saying it.

Have you tried talking to him about this?
Couple therapy perhaps?

I'm also sorry about your stitches, not sure if that counts as abuse? although in my head it would, because I'd think that stitches are necessary for you to heal and if he tears them up, isn't that going to stop you from healing? (sorry, if I'm not making sense just ignore me as I don't know much about stitches).

Hope you feel better! i am sure once you learn to say no and stand up for yourself, you'll feel a lot better and you'll feel more in control, not of him, but just in life general.

Cheers!

You know... when I think about it, neither can I. It must be endemic... statistically it seems like it must be very common indeed. Wow... that's so depressing.

It really is isn't it.

Can't Stop Crying,

I'm sitting here trying to be objective and to not let my incredulity and compassion sweep me away...

...my inner self wants to hold you and rock you and tell you that it will be alright... and to try to make you feel as loved and cherished and safe as you deserve... not as a woman... but as a fellow human being that is in pain.

It is beyond my ability to comprehend how a man can TAKE his pleasure from a woman when she experiences no emotional connection, satisfaction or pleasure her self. I don't understand how that can be... I truly don't... It's animalistic...

I am NOT judging your husband. He is who he is and is the product of his life experiences... I'm sure that he is letting his sexual desire justify the atrocities he is committing against you. It appears that in his own mind, you are his wife and he has his needs and it is you duty as his wife to satisfy his needs whenever they arise.

I don't know. I may have a distorted view of the situation... because I am so upset by it.

Wife or not... NO man can have ANY claim on ANY woman EVER. He can only ASK her if she would be interested in being an equal participant in an intimate and MUTUALLY pleasurable and emotionally fulfilling experience. You have every right in the world to reject his advances REGARDLESS of his desire to the contrary! In short, making love is something that BOTH people must want. It is something that benefits BOTH people.

Can't Stop Crying, in my opinion... and it is ONLY my opinion, your husband is not having sex with you. He is having sex with himself. You are merely the object of his sexual needs. He is RAPING you against your will. What he is doing is selfish, heartless, uncaring, loveless, disrespectful, abusive and is completely outrageous behavior without exception.

Whether you find sex pleasurable or not isn't the point here. It is NOT the point.

The point is, has no right to you or claim on you, but he is abusing you none-the-less.

Anyway, I probably shouldn't be writing this because I'm upset about what you're having to go through and am not being very objective about it...

I hope you're feeling better...
You're in my thoughts...

Dan

Sex between a couple should be about the love they have for each other, not 'I'm going to have sex with you whether you're going to enjoy it or just lie there'. That is your HUSBAND, he is the last person who should be using, hurting or taking advantage of you. You're not a sexual object for a man to use for his gratification, you are not obliged in ANY way to succumb to any form of pressure because you have a marital relationship with him. I don't care if the 2 of you love each other or not, having sex with someone who doesn't want it in return is not an expression of love at all. If he's got an itch to scratch, that's what his hands are for, not his wife, he can sort himself out.

I don't think he's trying to hurt me, a lot comes from lack of understanding on his part. You would think if he notices me crying he would at least try to figure out what's wrong. I was okay with how everything was, managed to tolerate it, until the flashbacks/nightmares started tormenting me again. I think that it was it bringing this all to the surface again...why does it always seem like everything has to attack at once?

Sorry if I missed it already, but have you told him or tried to discuss any of it with him?

I apologise for being blunt, but I lack sympathy for any man who takes advantage of a woman in any way, excuses or not. He would have to be blunt as an eraser not to even remotely notice you aren't exactly willing. Sex is the most intimate, close thing you can do with another person, if he can't notice something is wrong, then something is WRONG.

I did try to bring it up, I don't speak very well and got very frustrated and shut down. It's like he hears my voice but it is just sound, he doesn't hear my words. I've started writing him a letter, maybe that will work better.

He did come to a T session with me, a long time ago. In the session, it seemed like it was registering with him. My T didn't get into the details out of respect for me, but stressed the importance of mutual respect and consent.

Things have been okay for a while, probably because I just comply. I'm pretty good at tuning the act out until it is done. The last 3 months or so it has been harder and harder to stop paying attention. There is too much in my head and too many reminders of childhood.

I guess I'm the one who keeps changing the "rules" in this relationship and I have a hard time telling him about boundaries because I don't have a good concept of boundaries myself.

Sorry, I just keep rambling... I'll work on the letter more today...

This has really got me thinking. It is sad that so many can relate. It also makes me feel powerless, there is a twisted sense of power in self-blame, a tool I've used far too frequently. This thread tells me that maybe I'm not to blame. If I can blame myself, then I'm the screwed up one and I can fix it. It is hard to let go of that control and admit that maybe he hurt me and knew it all along. Then it makes me wonder why......

I don't think he hurt you because he was being mean or malicious or intentionally hurtful. I don't think he set out to hurt you.

I believe that perhaps the hurt in your relationship has evolved... to the point that it is just the way your relationship is... and perhaps he sees no reason to change the status quo...

Perhaps?

I think you;re right...it is where we are right now and hard to make changes. Change is uncomfortable even if staying the same is more uncomfortable.

I realize this is a very sensitive and complicated subject. I'm sorry if this happened to you or any other woman and yes, rape can happen between a married couple or partners but there's different forms. I don't want to step on anyones toes here so I'll try to stick with your situation. When your hubby insisted to have sex after child birth before you were healed - yes this was wrong.

I don't think your husband is intentionally trying to hurt you like other cases of marital rape though. You mentioned you have a hard time setting boundaries and saying no - I think this has complicated and blurred the boundaries to the point your husband is very confused. He has strong needs and has become used to you not fully being present during sex -he's learned to shut that part off and in the process this situation has become uncomfortable for you.

I suggest you write him a letter and come up with a clear sign that you'll give when you don't want sex and a clear sign when you do. Basically he needs to ask and be given permission. You need to use your voice and say "no" and he needs to respect that.

I'm sure you're getting help with your therapist with this issue and I hope you're still able to be intimate with your husband. I think it must be a bit confusing for him because he has desire, but never knows if you're ready. He's also become used to getting his needs met even though you're not enjoying it.

I know there are some terrible violent rapes that can happen to committed couples but I don't think your husband is one of those men. I think you should get into couples sex therapy so you can be the loving partner again in your marriage.

Can't Stop Crying,

...yes, I agree, the prospect of change can be a source of great anxiety.

Sometimes, the THOUGHT of change can be much, much worse than actually changing the way you are doing something.

...it's rather amazing how a mind can create scenarios that project real fear into your life...