Here's your sign, help wanted.

Generally I come here w/ honest to goodness questions that I don't know the answer to. Today I come w/ rhetorical questions.

Why? Why must the obvious be so difficult. The truth is right before my eyes daily and I cannot seem to trust myself. I hsve a feeling most of you have seen me here before but for those of who have not I'll give you an ever so brief run down on the situation. I have been married to a man who has emotionally abused and mentally abused me for 18 years. I have nothing left to give. We have been going to marriage T together. Things are improving. The bulk of the abuse has stopped, but now he has switched more to a passive aggressive type. You know, he drops ugly little hints that are just a minor kick in the gut.(not literally) I don't know what to do and am torn between staying and going. The PTSD seems to affect things alot. I am delaying because I do not want PTSD to rule the day. I also understand that my H has been threw life's circumstances as a kid and teen that helps cause him to do what he does. My life's harsh realities contribute to the issues that make me ME. Now back to the issue.

Why Do I stay. Why can't I walk away. I can see, I see the answer, I have been told the answer, but still I cannot make the answer a reality. I hide from pain, I hide from fear, I do not trust myself, I do not trust my own judgement. When things are bad they are really bad and when they are good I think I have to be crazy to think this was ever bad.

Thats what makes it so difficult. When it is bad I am so ready to leave. I could walk a way in an instant. Walk and never look back. But when things are good he is so nice. He is caring, he is thoughtful, he is kind. I hate to leave that. There is so much potential. Just when I think he is changing and going to move forward he slips back to his old ways. HE is learning. I hate to reward effort and partial success w/ "the boot". That's just wrong. What he does is wrong. But two wrongs don't make a right. I don't think he is an *** on purpose. The T is starting to think it is something he is not aware of and doesn't understand.(the way he treats me) She is not sure if he is capable of change. If you don't know what you are doing then it is hard to stop. But I should not be the victim of him not knowing when to stop.

I cannot believe I am so close to walking but can't take that first step. Is it the right step, the wrong step? Why can't someone just give me a big ol sign. Flashing neon lights would do. Just a little sign.

Well enough w/ the questions. Just had that on my mind. Waiting for the neon sign. Or any other almost as obvious sign.

I think the ONE question is: Are you willing to live the rest of your life like this? Are you willing to make your children live the rest of their "childhoods" like this until they're old enough to leave home? Is it fair to them?

Sweetie, you ARE being abused. And the kids are too. I know why you are reluctant. But he isn't going to change -- you've seen that.

God bless, my friend. My thoughts & prayers are with you. Hugs, Lee

Leed thanks. I hate being caught in this mental limbo. I am seeing more and more that he is not changing. The T has something up her sleve and on her mind, I don't claim to be psysic but I can feel it. We , the T and I are considering the lesser extreme of the two options. She suggested I go ahead and get a lawyer, or at least contact one and get a free assessment of what kind of things I can be instore for. What I can expect as far as child support is concerned, the house and such things. The other option was to take a small seperation, 4 months - 6 months. Continue to work on ourlseves w/ the T and work on things together as well if I/we feel so compelled leaving more time for me to find out relevent information and to see what life is like alone. (which I am pratically doing anyway) And give him a chance to see what life is like alone to. I think that would be the easier of the two options. I don't think I would feel so pressured to stay. It would be easier to leave for good. Who knows he may have a change of heart and quit being difficult. I may see that the income arrangements are not going to be sufficiant. I don't think this will be the case. I have no money and have not worked in 15 years. I've raised these kids alone this far. So who knows. We meet w/ the T on Tuesday and I am curious how things are gonna go.

Hi Big Mama. I'm sorry you are is such confusion over this. I can appreciate your situation.

I can see your not knowing why you stay, but you are answering yout own questions pretty well.

At our core, all of us, we have a very strong sense of who we are, what is right and wrong in an overall sense-our values. We all can lose sight of these when we are feeling hurt and confused but they are still there.

These core values not only help us to make the tough decisions, they also work in the background giving us the strength to go on another day, even in our desperation.

You are a woman who:
1. has experiences that allow you to feel a strong empathy toward those, more than just H, and an undestanding of the fact that behaviors can come from the unconscious places and cannot be helped.

2. one of your core values is your dedication to family. You may or may not try to OVERCOME this very real inner truth that has been keeping you here. I do not see it as a negative as though this value is trapping you, at least not yet. I have a similar value system and I chose to see it as a strength.

3. You have 18 years in this marriage.

4 You are seeing major improvements with him. Some of your feelings in this are long held as is a fear that this cycle will continue. You can't just jump ahead to a belief and a trust that H will continue to improve.


Big Mama. I don't think you are in a position to make such a big leap just now. Please try to do some things that are all about you. Care for yourself.

Putting more time and effort in here may seem pointless, but because of the person you are I don't think you will be ready to make a decsion to leave anytime soon.

Please take care...PM me anytime.

Big Mama. These sound like very reasonable options from T. Do you do a weekly evaluation of the situation where you look at backslides AS WELL AS improvements or does it seem to just be arguing and blame? I think you have said this is the case with T. I think if your T is not looking at specific areas weekly with the two of you she is not doing all that she can, IMO.

Maybe you can do some of this by writing some notes to bring to T each week, both pos and negatives. The fiancial is another issue altogether.

If you are ready to try a seperation I do see your thoughts as real possiibilities and a genuine test for the both of you about what life will be like.

I like that even when you are looking at freeing yoursefl here you are keeping in mind your values and will be workiojg with T.

You are so strong. I feel for you and your struggles.

Slump, thanks for your support as well. I am just really torn. I ache, I hurt to know what may come of this. The pain it will cause my husband, the frustratiion and anger he may have. But the pain of living w/ him is greater then the pain I may cause him, I think. Right now I'n so indecisive I just don't know. This is where I know the T will help support me and help be MY backbone and follow threw w/ my best interest as well as our best interest.

BIg Mama,

You are so strong. I admire this and I take inspiration from this strength.

Please do keep yourself in mind.

I am here for you and so are many more.

I speak as a child who watched her mother be abused for 9 years. You need to get out for the sake of your children. I know easier said than done. I can almost tell you why you won't leave he has probably broke you down so much that you think no one will love you but him. He has made you feel worthless and like a bad mom. Trust me though none of that is true. You have to find the right moment to leave. Does he work? If so when he goes to work take your kids and run. 8 hours is enough time to get away from him.

ditto

Broken Thank you so much for your support. You are correct on alot of things. He has made it wo where I have no trust in myself or my own abilities. He has beaten so far down emotionally. I am having a most diffficult time w/ that first big step.

I would just leave when he is not around, but that brings on another whole can of worms. Abandonment, I do not have sole custody of the kids. So That could lead to a different kind of trouble. In our county you can only file a petition for custody the 1st and 3rd Tuesday from 8 - 10 am. We live in a hick town. I don't plan on making a break for it, but then again who knows what one may have to do. In a perfect world it would be nice if it were mutual. He knows the cards are on the table. He is aware that I am unhappy. His actions make or break the deal.

I'm really gonna have to have the T's help w/ this one. I feel bad for her because she is gonna have to help me whole bunches. I will truely need someone to push me and then hold my hand as I go. That will be tough shoes to fill. But if anyone can do it the T can. I just don't know how I'll pay her once the man w/ the money is gone. I got to many things to think about. Gotta go ,I'm writing down q's as they come to me.

((((Mama)))) I can relate to feeling as though you cannot trust yourself and your own judgment. I struggle with that in spades.

I am starting to notice - very slowly, slow going when you start out with such small / little self esteem - the better I know myself and set clear boundaries (esp with difficult people, instead of trying to pacify them), the better chance I have of attracting the "right" people into my life.

Before, I swear I had a neon sign on my head flashing "sucker". As I have become stronger and more at peace, I have noticed that people that would have normally made a beeline for me, no longer do so. In fact, it happened the other day...a strange man came rushing up to me in a parking lot and got about 10 feet away from me, I looked him square in the eye, and he immediately turned to the right and walked the other way.

I took that as a positive thing.

((((Mama)))) take your time, speak with your T, put together a solid support group IRL, come here for support (you have a big support group here)...

...soon you will see what we all see - how wonderful you are!

Rose, you are gonna make me cry, in a good way. You are so special. You are so correct as well. I am going very slow and need to go slow. Th T has told me we will take this in baby steps because that is the only way you can do this yourself w/ minimal help.

Good for you, I would have freaked out if I saw a man in the parking lot much less walking my way. That would have been a big one for me. You did it. You looked him in the eye and he stopped. Good for you Rose.

Big Mama,
I know how hard that first step can be but when you feel you are ready to take it and do you will feel so much better. If you take your children to a family members or friends house in the same town but make sure it is somewhere he has no clue where that person lives then you have done nothing wrong. Trust me my mom did it once with my little sister and I. She had called the cops the night she did it and even the cops said as long it was in the same town and she didn't leave the state with us she would be doing nothing wrong.

Hi Big Mama, first of all "Big Hugs" for you.

Well, I have been listening to you talk about your situation and your therapy. What stands out to me is that not only do you have PTSD, but you are also learning about your "own victim mentality". What you are becoming much more "aware" of is how your husband has pushed you into becoming a "victim" because of "his personal disfunction". This is a big deal because what you are doing now is instead of your old way of "disasociating" from his bad behavior patterns, you are allowing yourself to actually see them and also see how they have been hurting you.

Big Mama, I thought about you last night because I am going through this with my daughter who actually ended her relationship with her boyfriend because he became unmanagable and now that she is away from him she is realizing how badly the relationship affected her and she is seeing how she adapted a "victim mentality" from it. She even said to me "Mom, my god, this is like muchousens". Now that she has been away from him for a few months, whenever she does have to see him, she has panic/anxiety attacks and is actually "afraid" of him. She is so upset that she is now reacting like this because she thought she had a lot more control over herself, so this is a complete shock to her.

Now, none of us here that have been supporting you live with or personally know your husband, so all we know is what you tell us. And what many of us can see is that you are challenged alot right now and it isn't an easy decision for you to make when it comes to staying in the relationship or choosing to finally walk away from it.

What I can tell you is that both choices will have consequences to them. And what you have to decide is what consequences you can live with. That is not an easy decision Big Mama, so it is important you take your time with it. Remember that PTSD will send you strong urges to "run" and even feel "unsafe or threatened". So you have to be able to slow that down and instead take your time and think this through.

I do understand that your husband has at least made the effort to "try to change" so that your relationship improves. However, it is important to know if he is capable of changing the way you really need him to inorder for you to truely have a healthier relationship. That is something you and your T are exploring and that can take some time. But also understand that a therapist has to be careful about how she "advises" you because she can't make this decision for you, that can make her liable if down the road you feel she made the wrong choice for you. All your T can do for you is help you see as much of the problems as you can, and then the decision is up to you.

Sometimes a separation is better because it can give you time by yourself to feel yourself out and see how you feel about "being away from him". A separation can show someone that they may actually love their partner more than they realized, yet sometimes it can result in realizing that the better choice is to end the relationship too. I think that it may be a better way of giving yourself more space to think about it, verses making a sudden decision you may someday regret.

You do have children together so you will always have to be connected because of that too. And as you mentioned, you also have to see if you will be able to manage surviving after a divorce too. There is a lot to think about here.

I understand that you are considering the fact that your husband has been "trying" but the question is, as I mentioned, can he finally realize he has problems and really work on making a "real change" that can really make the relationship a healthier one.

(((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

I freaked out a little!

OE thank you. I am in limbo here. It is not set in stone that I will be going. My H asked me last week What do I want from him. I can't answer that w/ spoken words. It is something I had to think threw and write. But after writing it I was afraid to share it w/ my H. I am just so tired of fighting w/ him and tired of giving him reasons to beat me down emotionally. Well there's never a good reason but I don't want to add fuel to the fire so to speak.

I share what I had wrote w/ the T. She asked me had I considered showing it to him, I told her I considered it but that was why I brought it to her first. Because I wanted to do it at her office where I felt more safe. She asked that I not bring the kids that night. Because they often ride w/ me so my mom doesn't have to babysit. She asked that we both drive seperately. If he gets angry she doesn't want him to be near me. I may even want to consider packing a bag and not returning home if need be. It is most likely going to be an ugly visit. On the other hand if he is serious about changing like he says he is this could be one of those times that real growth occurs. We should take seperate vehichles so he can think by himself.

I'm scared. that's all I know to say. I'm scared for the future. Afraid of change. Afraid of no turning back. I just don't know. I had T yesterday. I know the first 48 hours are the hardest mentally so I know, hope, things will be a little less emotionally charged in a few days.

Thank you for responding. I find great peace in your knowledge.

I think LeeD offered a great post...I'm not truly sure what else I could add onto it. Offering advice to marriages is not my strong suit...there are so many factors, so few of which I have ever had to deal with, that it is hard for me to put myself into the appropriate perspective to offer much advice. I am sorry I cannot be of more help to you.

I would only tell you, though, that at the end of the day, you must do what is best for you and your children. I understand so well how hard it can be to leave a toxic relationship. Though I would be severely minimizing your situation to compare it to my former one (thus I'm not, only offering my experience), I willed myself through my relationship with my ex out of sheer hesitation to leave. I could not convince myself, though I knew it was for the best, that it was what I should do. I relate that to you to tell you that you are certainly not alone in that regard.

I wish I could offer you more concrete advice. I am sorry I cannot. As I said, ultimately, you must do what is best for you and your children. Please know I am praying for you, and that I hope things work out. If I can do anything for you or if you ever need someone to talk to, please consider my PM box open at any time.

Hugs, and all my best,
Harley

I have no words... But I'm sending you lots of safe hugs and warm wishes and hoping for a better future for you, whatever it might be.

Big Mama -- I was in mental limbo for 26 years! Almost from the day I got married! The abuse started from the first day -- I was so young and ignorant, I couldn't see it.

But after my kids were born, I finally "grew up" and knew what was happening and I wanted OUT. But I thought he would 'change'. I tried and tried MYSELF to get him to calm down; to be more reasonable. When that didn't work, we went to a therapist ~ and when she said something he didn't like, he walked out and never went back. I continued to go for awhile.

Like you living in limbo is awful. You don't know what to do or what questions to ask or who to ask! I went to an attorney for advice and he told me to divorce him! I should have done it then. Things were going too fast. Separation -- he advised against that because he said it was more expensive and it would just end up in divorce anyway. Why should HE care?????

Limbo. It's awful. Staying for the kids - you don't know if you're doing more harm than good and you don't want to ASK the kids!!! You're afraid you'll hurt them if you bring the subject of divorce up, even tho it's a possibility. You just don't want to bring it up too soon. So you don't say anything. In the meantime, in my case I was hurting the kids MORE by staying. If I'd known then what I found out later, I would have left much sooner than I did. The kids were unhappy ~ and they told me later they wish I had divorced him much earlier.

So unless you actually dare to ask your kids how they feel about it, you stay in limbo until the final decision is done and over. It's miserable Big Mama, and My heart hurts for you. That's how my experience with limbo was. Just thought I'd share. Love, Lee

((((Mama)))) just wanted to stop by to see how you are doing and sending a hug

Agree with Leed on this.

I know it's not as simple as asking yourself these things. I know the back and forth that people go through during a crisis where they are considering a divorce or break up after a long term relationship. Regardless of the amount of abuse, it's hard. Not only is it usually the case that the victim really does care for the SO but also people get comfortable and in a twisted way are secure in where they are. At least you know what to expect tomorrow. You know what it's going to be like everyday even before it begins. There's a level of comfort in that. I understand this.

But that is why you have to follow through and force yourself to really think on questions like Leed presented. You have to think proactively whether you really want to keep going like it is. Don't just passively ask yourself, and then quickly say "well yeah but...." and then talk yourself out of it with your insecurities and fears of the uknown. Really ponder what it will mean to stay where you are. I am almost positive you'll come ot the same conclusion many of us have here about your relationship.

Hope this helps.
~S4

I'm just lost, exausted and confused. My feeling change daily. I feel like until they are more constant I should stay? I just don't know. I don't think if I do go that it will be immidiately. I'd still like to explore all the options. More T alone for my H possibly, or T seperate for us for a little bit as well as togehter. Just a thought.