Two relationships

Two things happened last weekend that have had me going sideways. I think I've got one resolved.

For the final time, Jerry had left. He threw one of his tantrums because I reminded him one too many times, I guess, that we needed for him to cash in some Cokes cans that had been stacking up... plus we needed the money. Can I help that he's scattered and forgetful??

Well, he did cash in part of them, came in and threw the money at me and left in his car. Later that day, I saw that both the RV and his car were gone. Ok... so he was pulling yet another disappearing act. Something he's been well known for in the past 30 yrs. About 4 yrs ago, when he moved back in with me I told him that it pushes my abandonment trigger. He started telling me when he was leaving the vicinity of the house... but NOT when he flies into a rage.

As you know, not too long ago, we had agreed that he was moving out. He moved out to the RV storage area of the park. LOL Well... he SLEPT there and that was all. THIS TIME IT'S FOR GOOD! I'm making sure of that by telling the manager of the park that he no longer lives here. No rights to the storage area.

THEN... as some of you are aware, John's wife had become a member here back in Feb, shortly after she had my premie grandson. I found this out the day after Jerry left. So I've had my abandonment trigger pulled, found out I was being stalked, went through rage, fear, paranoia, concern and extreme sadness.

For a while, I had both occurances mixed together in my mind. Now I think I know why. I KNOW that Jerry is going to help Christina in her mistaken perseption of me. Jerry bends whichever way the wind blows. He depends way too much on John for almost everything. They are against me over there and have been for quite a while. They're just going to feed off each other. I don't care what Jerry thinks! It's my son that my heart is breaking over! Christina has twisted everything I say and has him if not hating me, at least not ever wanting to see me again.

While I don't approve of lot of the things she DOESN'T do, I don't hate her. I could get along with her, if she'd let me. But she's an insecure, immature girl. From the very beginning, she's been turning John against me. When John left my house, it cut off the child support I was getting from his dad. Cut my income in half. I had a really rough financial time as well as John. For a while, we'd borrow pennies from each other to get through.

I remember one time, calling him and asking him for a small amount of money. I heard Christina in the background saying "What right does she have to ask US for money??" John told her "She's my mother and I love her." This was about 8 yrs ago. Well, she's worked "her magic that I know so well." He hasn't spoken to me hardly, since January.

She was here asking if a relationship could be fixed but added that I lie and twist things. I think all of you know me better than she does and know that I don't do that or it would show up here on the boards. Because those of you that agree with me say so, she says you "enable" me.

HOWEVER! She did say something that is true and has been on my mind for a few years. I've yet to figure out all the reasons. What she said is that my kids don't want to be around me. YOU have heard me say that! THERE HAS TO BE A GOOD REASON!!

I can explain some of it away, but ... If there is ANYTHING I can do to change that, I WANT TO DO IT!!

My daughter was the first one to turn against me. She had all sorts of strange ideas when this first hit. She stopped talking to me and doesn't let me see her kids. Come to find out, she's Borderline. Ok... so she has a mental illness.

Then, there's Christina that has turned my baby away from me. I can say that she's terribly insecure and for good reason. She saw John's love and loyalty towards me and perceives it as a threat. YES! I've voiced my opinion of her to JOHN, never to her! There was a time that I cleaned her house for her. I've shared with her that I used to be and feel like she does when I first became a mother and how I helped myself to change. She saw that as me trying to take John away from her! I guess I can see how she felt threatend, but I've NEVER been mean to her or accused her of anything! She does have some endearing qualities. Maybe it's the little girl in her that is so obvious... and me with a strong mothering instinct! LOL

Ok! This is way too long already. I could go on and on, but I'll shut up now.

If any of you can give me some OBJECTIVE insights, I sure would appreciate it! *I* am sincere when I say that I would like to fix this relationship! Don't "enable" me, ok??

and thanks ahead of time... even if it's for just getting through this long post. I HATE LONG POSTS! LOL

I wish I had good words of wisdom for you. I know you are a deeply caring person and would give anything to see your children and grand children. Maybe try writing her a letter stating how YOU feel. What you want in a relationship with her and YOUR son. A bond between a mother and son runs deep. I will keep you and the situation in my prayers!

From what I can see, as an external observer that is, the dil is either insecure and doesn't want to feel she is competing with the mother (she is jealous of you?). Or, and maybe this is related I don't know, she is selfish and wants sole posession of the son - and wants him to dance attendance on her and only her.

It is a difficult situation, and you appear to be trying to mend this relationship. But it seems that she is not that keen. Does your son know his wife is trying to villify you? Is he on your side? Did you try to haev a heart-to-heart with her? If so, and she is still persistent in trying to villify you... then maybe the best would be for you to still be civil to that woman, and maybe time will show her that you are not a 'threat'.

It must be really difficult for you though... :s I hope at least your son sees her for what she is.

Tomi, I don't have any words of wisdom for you either, but I do know how you're hurting. My brother has cut off all ties to my mom too, but it was because he did something stupid and he's probably too proud to admit that he was wrong, so he just keeps shutting her out. This has been going on for probably 15 years. It bothers her to this day. She tries to brush it off, but she's not doing a very good job of it since she brings it up just about every time we talk to each other. She asks me if he ever talks to me - he doesn't. He barely talks to my dad, and when he does it's to tell him what he's doing wrong.

I wish I could tell you to just let it go, but I know you can't. I know I couldn't.

No, from what I can see, he believes her side of the story. He's not the same man with me that he used to be. He sees things strictly from her point of view.

After all these years with my daughter not speaking to me or letting me see her kids, I've learned to put it on the back burner. That doesn't mean that I don't miss her or the boys. It doesn't mean that I don't have my crying jags, but I guess you could say I'm getting used to it.

With John, it's a whole different story. My biggest pain is HIM. I hurt because I can feel that he doesn't love me or trust me. I HURT because he's my baby and it feels like I've lost him.

Christina also said here on the board... or asked... why mother's can't let their kids go. Maybe she means TOTALLY?? She's still living next door to her parents!! It kinda feels like double standards to me. Yes, she's thrown her dad out of the house when he was bad mouthing my son, but she can't get very far away from him!!

I honestly do believe that she feels that John can't love us both at the same time. She has to possess ALL of him! She doesn't even let John and his dad go to the store without her packing up the kids and going, too.

When they were just going together and John worked at a living facility for retarded boys/men, she would sit in the car all the time he was inside working! She could have been out having fun! I don't get it... except for her terrible insecurity! IF she only knew how much he loved her then and how totally devoted to her he was!!

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Does your son know his wife is trying to villify you?

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He doesn't see it as "villifying". He sees at as finally seeing who I really am and what a horrible mother I've been to him. She PMed me when I finally busted her and she's also emailed me saying that I "no longer exist" for my son.

He's totally on HER side.

"The prayer of a righteous man (woman) availeth much."

Thanks, {{{{{{{Elaine}}}}}}}}}}

Oh dear god. I'm so sorry SeptemberMorn. I know such a situation breaks the mother’s heart. Can you try to talk to your son whenever possible to clear the air, without accusing his wife...? Just to show him you are civil and not the monster she’s made you out to be. Then maybe with time she will come around and *both* will see you are not the baddie here - or at least he will. It does seem like she feels threatened by you… Sorry, don’t know what to say just wish you strength. I know it’s hard, but don’t give up hoping for the best.

I don't know if it would be possible or even wise to try and talk to him now. We've had our tiffs and he'll eventually come around and want to talk things out with me. I'm still waiting for him to be ready. It's never been this long before.

I just thought that those that know me well, could point out something in my character that could be causing me these problems.

Dearheart you may have to be satisfied with being Mom to David only , until John grows up , it is possible just keep praying
Angie

Angie, you know me about as well as anyone here. What is it about me that they can't stand??? Is it that I'm opinionated? What?? Why can David accept it and the others can't?? What else is there?? Even if you think it MIGHT be it, tell me!

OH! And Christina says that I don't have any friends and that I live in a fantasy world on the computer! How would SHE know?? I haven't talked to her since last October!!

Just days before she sent me that email, Jerry and I BOTH had dinner with a couple of sisters that I've known longer than John has been born!

That REALLY annoys me! She's ASSUMING again and she says that I'm the one that does that!

I sure hope she's reading!! From the OUTSIDE this time!

friend to friend....maybe she thinks you are opinionated. sometimes you can be but heck can't we all? geesh we all have brains lol hon if that be the case heaven help us all! maybe she can't take the opinions...I think the whole thing is she is intimidated by you. she feels infearer..I know I spelled that wrong!! so beat me!! lol

I'm glad that Jerry is safely on his way out, although I would understand if you felt conflicted about it. For the part of you that might be sad, I want to give you a hug ((( Tomi )))

Regarding your DIL and John, I don't think that it's true that we enable you. However, this is an extremely sensitive subject for you, and most people would be likely to lash out in defensiveness when they are feeling hurt and rejected. I and several others have tried to guess at what your DIL's perspective might be, realizing that conflict doesn't usually occur based on one person and one person alone. But, when you have lashed out at my feedback in the past, it has made me reluctant to hurt you even further by being open and direct with you about this particular subject.

Sept, you are a very strong and opinionated woman. That is a terrific characteristic about you. You are fiercely protective and caring of your children, which is very understandable. Normally, you are great about accepting constructive criticism, but when it comes to your kids, I think you have a difficult time when your friends offer it. So, here is my advice. When you feel anger rising after you've perceived criticism of you as a mother or grandmother, maybe stop and breathe for a day or two before reacting. Then, ask your friends for their honest opinion, and promise them that you won't bite their heads off for giving it to you. If the people who know you well disagree with you, then that's a sign that you should consider putting the anger away and find a way to let go of a conviction.

That is my best advice, after knowing you for 3 years on an almost daily basis.

I do realize that you're basically doing what I am suggestion already, just by starting this thread. This is a good sign that you're maybe ready to say "life is too short to have bad relationships with family". Are your son and grandkids worth being silent when you disagree with your DIL? It sounds to me as though you might think so.

I see so much pain in your posts about John, and having lost a stepson during my divorce 8 years ago, I know that the pain of being rejected by your child is a wound that just never heals. If I feel that way about my stepson, I know that your pain has to be a bazillion times worse.

Anyway, I hope you find peace and resolution with John. ((( Sept )))

Love,
LMo

One more thing -- I know that you're upset with her, but I do think that you should hold back on "venting" about her as much as you do. Not that you're wrong for feeling what you do, but sometimes indulging yourself in mean thoughts or words about another person feeds the toxic feelings. I know that I have to force myself not to yammer about what a PIA my mother-in-law is, but the more I complain about her, ultimately the worse I feel because the negative feelings take up most of the space of potential positive feelings.

Last suggestion, then I'll stop, I promise. Before letting yourself be convinced about her motives for something, work REALLY hard to make sure that there isn't a smidgen of assumption. If there is even a shadow of a doubt about why she says or does something, or if there is any possibility that she is NOT "behind" something that John or the kids say or feel, then I think you should give her the benefit of the doubt. Not because she has a great track record, but I think it would be smart to turn over a new leaf and from this moment forward, avow not to make any assumptions about her intentions or motives. Easier said than done, but SO MUCH conflict results from assumptions that it's probably the smartest step toward digging in deeper.

WOW! Ok, so... if YOU felt like I ripped your head off, then so do most other people that I get angry with... right?

But... I've never had a cross word with Christina. With John I have. He and I used to go at it pretty good. Both my boys are just as stubbor as I am if not more!

If it really feels like I ripped your head off, then I need to "Gentle Down" like I used to tell John when he got too rough either in word or deed.

You ARE courageous, {{{{{{{{{Lee Ann}}}}}}}}}}} If I remember right I got angry because of differing views having to do with John and Christina and/or their kids, right?? I felt devastated at the time. I don't remember what I said, but I do remember the intensity that I felt. OUCH!! Yes, I admit that I can level a person without using any swear words. David, of all people, told me that I'm intimidating. He intimidates me about as much!! My mother was like that, too. She could slice and dice you with just one sentence... in a normal tone of voice!!

Ok... so you've helped me pinpoint it. Now what?? I can just keep my mouth shut to John and Christina... No opinions or corrections... Am I on the right track here? Just keep it to myself.

Understood. I could go into a long defense of myself and my actions but I'm not going to do it. While I I'm still re-reading your suggestions. No, not at you, but at the fact that I WILL put some effort into doing what you say. It goes against what I believe at the moment, but like I've said before, even if it's written in stone, the stone can be crushed.

Would it help to say that I recognize some endearing qualities in her? She's cute, has a cute little body and something about her makes me want to "mother" her. I'm sure some of those feelings I should stifle. She has her own mother, right?

BTW, what is PIA?

So... when I feel like ranting/venting about her... get interested in something more positive? Like, maybe... Even now, I feel the frustration building... B R E A T H!! Nope. Gotta find something better...

No, don't stop if you have more suggestions. Just take your time throwing them at me, ok?

This one is going to be a real toughy because I don't believe I'm assuming. Yet, I promise you that I will search my heart, ok? Will you make me accountable for all of this? Nothing heavy, just a checking in. (shiver!)

I hope this works!!! This is my baby that's involved... and my ONLY, beloved granddaughter... not that I don't love the boys, but... well... This is the precious little girl that told me she had me in her heart.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{ ))))Lee Ann(((( }}}}}}}}}}}}} <-- tight, squishy hugs.

September,
She's so jelous of your son's mom "You." She only has fleeting beauty, and tries to steal him because she is insecure and scared of you. Why don't you stage a scare for her, but not really get as upset as you make yourself look "to her." AND HAVE A GOOD LAUGH Cheers! "I see this day as a positve new Beginning." "Today and tomorrow can be very different from yesterday if you can let go and focus on today."

Please forgive me if I have no place in the conversation. I understand the way people fight. My family used to do alot of it. My brother in law had it out for me the day he fell in love with my sister. I never actually did anything for him to not care for me, (the way he did) The senseless things that they do to make enemies of other family members. It isn't fair. I lost my sister when I was young to my brother in law-who was up to no good-really. So I have great empathy for you Septmebermorn. I don't want to offend you. But there must be some creative way to shake her up or shake the dust and garbage out of that woman, after all they are your grandkids. I pray that something happens that makes the whole situation really change for the better. Razel

Maybe get her some chocolate, some nail polish and a hairbrush and take it over to her and give it to her. Not in a bad way but be nice and stuff. My neighbor who lives downstairs from me really had a hate on (said I walked like an elephant) for Christmas I gave her a lot of chocolate, some of my cool jewerly-a couple of pieces that I thought would look nice on her and some peach essence oil) Me and her are now really close and most of the time we get along. It took me guts to do the giving first (to such a x?x?x? but it all worked out in the end. We don't have problems with each other.

Septembermorn,

I am being too helpful. I apoligize. Hope things go well and get better for everyone. Razel

Hi, Razel... and thanks for your input. I've thought of everything you've said already. To do things that aren't right that would satisfy my frustration would only keep the distance between us and make her hate me even more.

It's true that if she's insecure, she's jealous of me. I don't doubt that she is. That's one of the problems.

I've also thought of giving her gifts. I had a perfect opportunity when the baby was born and I passed it up simply because she wasn't talking to me. Now that I think about it, my son tried to give me a gentle shove that way but he didn't make himself clear. He told me she wanted flowers so we stopped on the way to the hospital and bought some. I thought he had asked me to buy some for HIM to give to her. When I handed them to him, he just laid them on a chair. I probably should have given them to her myself. Like they say "Hindsight is 20/20".