Confused

Hi. I'm wondering whether I've found "the one", to spend whats left of my life with. I don't think I've ever been in love with a man before. I've been co dependent, I think, also very needy. I now feel more complete in myself but also I'm not liking this feeling. It is, in my mind, like being trapped in a way. I'm not trapped at all. The man I love is very secure in himself, at times I can see through his walls.

He is a very private person and I'm worried he may be cheating. He gets angry easily because he has been a cannabis smoker for over 40 years. At least that is my observation, when he has run out of his supply and has to wait for another he is very irritable. He has never physically hurt me but realized once last summer that he was close to it, and verbally hurt me with language that he knew would hurt, since I was in an abusive marriage.

The reason I think he may be cheating is, I've known him for about a year and half. He has only one male friend. A few drug dealers as contacts, and one mysterious text message thread on his phone. He quit cigarettes a month ago, but admits he smokes at work. At first he said he went out with the other guy at work because he offered him one and then he changed it. One day I guess he made the mistake of saying "woman" he smokes with. Well, he wont take a smoke from me (I've yet to quit), so, as ridiculous as I may sound I find that to be a sign that something is going on at work. Also he leaves about 45 min early for work, and this text message thread came from someone where he works. If I drop in when I'm not expected he seems extremely irritable and can't wait until I leave.

I guess, I'm wondering whether I'm being reasonable to question things, and whether this man, who is about 10 years older, really loves me. We seem to be beginning to connect more but at the same time he says things that make me wonder if he is going to become controlling. He said things like "I should make MORE RULES for you, like, you can't come over on Sundays anymore".... "How about this, you can't touch my guitars or change the key they are in", "I wont ALLOW you to drop by"

I don't think I'm an idiot, I think these little things will become much bigger. He said he likes fat women, for the first time this weekend, yet he makes comments about good looking well shaped women on tv, "She's sexy"... and "Women with perfect bodies are insecure because they are in a minority"....HUH???? Am I right to think somethings not fitting in this puzzle?

Either he is starting to try to manipulate your emotions and break you down to make you easier to control, or he is having an affair.

Unless he just seriously needs counseling.

Up to you how to handle it.

- talk to him
- leave him

Good advice from Crypts of the Mind. Please really think about this relationship. There are some serious red flags.

I don't feel easy from what you write, sounds like this guy needs to 'control' a lot, if there was nothing untoward going on I think he would be open about his associations.

I think being controlling is the issue. A relationship is give and take, it has been getting better on that issue, but I feel he wants me to feel insecure so I wont leave him. I'm more complete in myself now, so I will just see how things develop. I wont waste time on something that looks like manipulation on his part. Thanks everyone, it helps to vent and think things through.

If he is being controlling and manipulative, staying can turn into abuse. Weigh your options carefully. ❤

He started to physically push me today, i think things are over. I cant take that kind of behaviour..

Please leave.
Control and manipulation is the entrapment, to "set the stage" for abuse.
Then the abuse begins when they think you feel powerless or resourceless.
Go before it gets worse.
*hugs*

As far as him being controlling, the examples you give in the first post above are not good examples of that, to my mind. I think anybody has a perfect right to say I do not want to be visited on my job. That's boundary setting and he has a right to do that. I would never walk into anyone's place of work without their permission beforehand. (Well, I did with my boyfriend, years ago, when we were fighting, and I was wrong to do that.)

As far as his guitar goes, I think he has a perfect right to say, "I don't want anyone touching my guitar." And he has a right to say when it's okay, or not, for you to drop by where he lives. (Though that goes two ways. I wouldn't have an open-door policy toward a boyfriend who didn't reciprocate.)

Now the shoving is not okay, especially if he does it under your roof. In your home, your are Queen and he is a guest. He has the same obligations there that any guest has visiting anyone. As long as he is maintaining a separate residence, (which you should want him to do) then your place is not his home. Even if it were, shoving's not okay.

I'm not sure where the line is between having a nasty argument and being in an abusive verbal exchange. Often, that can be a very wide fussy line, IMHO. Many people in relationships become mutually abusive from time to time. Some of that is what I would call "having a fight." Here, again, when it's in your home, you get decide what you will, or won't, tolerate. Guests have the option to leave. My policy was: "If you don't like how I act in my home, you know where the door is." It can be very compromising, though, to take money from a guy. Bringing you a bag of groceries might be fine, but you don't want him to be helping you pay the rent. Then he starts thinking your place is his place. It shouldn't be, and that should be clear.

As far as him "loving you," I think you need to ask yourself what evidence is there that he does. Not everyone is into saying, "I love you." all the time, but there are plenty of ways to show love. It's best to assume he doesn't, until there is strong evidence that he does. At some point, he'll should be able to say he does, if he does. Just the fact that someone keeps hanging around is not a reason to suppose, "Well, we've been together this long, so I guess we love each other."

He has a right to be just as private as he wants. But him maintaining an oddly high level of privacy would tell me that he's not committed to me and is keeping his options open. That's his prerogative, but then think of him just as someone you're dating. If he's keeping his options open, then you should be doing the same. If he's basically sleeping at your place every night, then he's pretty much keeping tract of every move you make. I would not let any man keep track of every move I make, if he's clearly making sure I can't keep track of every move he makes. In the latter case, I would say, "Call when you want to spend time with me. Maybe I'll be available, and maybe I won't be." Then I would make it a point to be unavailable from time to time.

You're either "dating" a man, or you're living with him. I think a woman's very foolish to live with a man who hasn't expressed that he wants to be totally committed to her and has decided to offer her that. Otherwise go back to just dating, whereby "We see each other, when we're both in the mood. What we do other times is the personal business of each of us. And neither of us goes to the other person's house uninvited or unexpected."

I see so many threads of unhappy young women who enter into these "trial" living-together arrangements. This completely short-circuits the whole process of possibly falling in love . . . or not. Usually, one party really wants mutual committment, and the other just wants the convenience of having full access to someone, until such time as they might find find something they like better.

You clearly don't trust this guy. I'm not hearing where he does much more than hang around you when it suits him. You shouldn't give a guy the option to do that. You don't let a man feel secure that he can totally count on you, until that is mutual. So tell him you need space and send him home. Let him call you for a date.

Rose76, I really must ask you again if you have ever been in or been educated about controlling or abusive relationships?

Just bc she doesn't give "good examples" in YOUR opinion, does not mean they are the only examples. She was the one who said she felt he was being controlling n manipulative. Yes, he has the right to not let her touch his guitar or in his apartment - but how big of a change was this and why? Those are questions that would be indicative of control or not. She originally said she thought perhaps he was having an affair possibly - which I said was a possibility, but when she thought it over she thought it was more on the control n manipulation side. Why are you attempting to devalue her opinion on her situation?

Rose actually brings up very good points. Sometimes it takes insight from experiences to make me wake up and see the bigger picture.
Crypts, I'm not comfortable with seeing someone respond to another person's response on my thread. you gave good advice from what you read. Thank you, but don't directly approach someone else's response to get a "rise" out of them, or contradict their opinion. Thank you.

Now, as I look at this again, I'm realizing how needy I have become. I did not drop by where he works and he even wonders why I don't sometimes. That is his place of work, I have no business being there.

He is private, but he explained it was a co worker. I am a jealous person and so is he. We both question what we are up to, we live an hour apart. He actually has to hear me repeat myself about the past with men, I guess I try to explain myself so he understands why I am the way I am. I still believe he is controlling, but Rose brings up a very good point. I've been dropping by HIS place more often. It's actually been more than a month since he's been to mine.

He told me a long time ago that I delved into his private life. I was simply asking too much about his past, where I like to "lay in on the line", so to speak, so he knows my mental health issues and that he may have difficulty with me, at times.

He has probably just wanted more space, as he really does like his own private space. Maybe way more so than any other person I've known, so it is hard for me to grasp. We haven't been together long enough to know if we could live together, and maybe I'm trying his patience, but also trying to see him more often. This way I feel it should be appropriate for me to occasionally just drop by. I feel very seriously for this man.

It is me that needs to back down I suppose, but when I'm here, I cook, do dishes, buy my own food at times, and try to be as quiet as possible. He said last week to leave becasue "I need absolute silence and darkenss".... and I wasn't even doing much but having to cough.

As a long distance relationship it may work, but living together, no. Also he works long hours and I don't work and may not again. I really need more to occupy my time. I also like to leave my home because of how my younger son is treating me. I feel it makes him grow up quicker, he has been so disrespectufl, but this is not about that.

Maybe we've just gotten to the "comfortable" enough point, where arguing happens ..
Thanks everyone.

Just so you know, I was not trying to "get a rise" out of rose, I said what I did out of true concern forcyou. I am sorry you saw it differently.

I'm not hearing where this man has a whole lot of warmth in his heart toward you. It may be that he is soured on women in general, rather than you in particular. Something about his attitude sounds troubling. I don't know whether or nor he's "controlling," but that's not the only way in which a man can be a very unsatisfactory partner. It sounds to me like he's not that nice of a guy.

If you're with him mainly because that seems better than having nobody, then allow yourself to realize that. But try not to elevate to the status of "love affair" a relationship that simply may not merit being called love. I'm not hearing where this guy is in love with you. He may not be a very loving guy. You may be "needy," but there's nothing overly needy about wanting to be loved. To commit yourself exclusively to a man who seems to offer so little strikes me as unfortunate. I would rather see you keeping yourself open to meeting other men, and just regard this man as someone you casually date and find some measure of companionship with.

I am seeing thread after thread where a person is basically being rejected, but prefers to see it as the other party "looking for space." If a guy is frequently communicating, "I don't want you with me." that's not "looking for space." That's a guy who is not in love with you. And, like I said, this may not reflect on your worthiness so much as on him just not being a loving man. He sounds very cold to me.

If you feel starved for acceptance and affection from this man, then that's a perfectly good reason to decide to move on.

Thank you for recognizing, and pointing out these things, Rose.

disparaissant, please listen and consider what Rose pointed out. They are very important things to consider. We both care.

Thank you, Crypts. I believe you do care. Disparaissant deserves being cared about, and probably hasn't had an overabundance of that in her life, to put it mildly. I think PC is at it's best when people who contribute sincerely to threads - and sometimes distrust each others' agendas - stay attentive to a thread long enough to find that they are actually on the same page in being concerned for the OP's welfare.

I raised questions in my first post here, not to invalidate disp, but to stimulate clearer thinking. Our culture, currently, is putting a lot of focus on the evils of the controlling behavior that some women are subjected to in their relationships. That's not a bad idea, since these are the women who tend to suffer the worst consequences of being in dysfunctional relationships, from emotional abuse and broken bones, right up to losing their lives. (And it's not only a man on woman scenario, just more typically that.) The problem is: once a theme gets the high profile this has gotten, attention to other forms of dysfunction gets squeezed out. So, now, whenever a person reports being unhappy in a relationship, people leap to the conclusion that there must be issues of control and abuse. It's like that's the hit record, and everybody is playing it, forgetting that there are other songs. Not every person who's being badly treated is necessarily a victim of excess control.

In answer to a question I was asked: I grew up in a home where my father was very controlling of my mother, who spent a lot of effort trying to placate him. I could see what was going on and decided I was not going to be like her. And I'm not. I thought a lot of my father, but there was no way I was going to let him run my life. That resulted in some major friction between us, but I found I could survive that friction. After defeating my father's attempts to dominate me, I never found any other man to be much of a challenge. So, no, I've never been in a relationship where I was being controlled. Men looking for submission in a woman tended not to waste too much time on me.

But that doesn't mean I've been well-treated in my relationships. There are other ways to be hurt. In my case, I successfully avoided men who were controlling and abusive. But I did get involved with men who were needy. I have been taken advantage of. Because I was strong in some ways, I attracted men who wanted to be taken care of. Having a needy man bleed you can be pretty devastating. It's not only domineering men who can give women a bad time. Sometimes the problem is simply that a person always manages to take more than they give. That can leave a gal pretty depleted. I've been there.

Thank you for responding to me and for answering my earlier question.

I was never trying to insinuate you MEANT her harm. There was another post (prior to this) in which I asked you the same question, and attempted to clarify I realize you come from a good place in your heart. I do realize there are a crapload of ways men can be hurtful to women n vice versa in relationships even without abuse. I have been party to both types of hurt. I have witnessed both types of hurt in varying forms as well.

The problem with abuse though is the control and brainwashing and manipulation is done so well that it's something the abuser is able to allow others to see the relationship or him/herself as being perfect and the flaw is the victim, even to counselors and family and friends. So, the victim gets "stuck" in a frame of mind but also in the "trap" the abuser keeps the victim in. Constantly no money or very little, rarely if ever able to get out or communicate with others without the abuser right there, nobody to turn to for help, threats of what will happen if you leave, knowledge of what "bad behaviors" had brought about in the past. So if someone thinks they may be being controlled or abused, I tend to want to err on the side of caution and just believe and trust in them that is indeed what is going on.
When I was being abused, I reached out on forums like these, to counselors, and to family. Everybody said " you won't leave him, stop crying, you deserve it" or "you are lying". Nobody was interested in hearing out everything I had to say and why I felt the way I did. I don't ever want people to feel that. I was in that relationship for 8yrs before I left. There is more to that story but that's why I kept asking if you knew/understood/had been through abuse - because I could see you were not cold hearted like those that I had spoke to, but I also saw that you did not seem to understand some of the concepts of the psychology behind abuse, and it concerned me bc those little parts can cause a victim to believe he or she is even more deserving​ of the abuse if said in the wrong way in even the best of intentions. So I was reaching out to you, not trying to attack you. You do seem to legitimately care for people and want to give them well thought out advice. If you like I can direct you to some information on abuse so you will be able to weigh it out and get a sense for if it may be abuse or not?

I really think you are a good person n I agree with you it is awesome when people who care about the OP are able to stay attentive even if they originally do not agree with one another. I never thought you intentionally malicious though. *hugs*

I'm very familiar with the theories about abuse and how it gets perpetuated and how people get trapped in situations where they are being abused. I've done a good deal of reading on the subject. I've attended support groups for victims of abuse. When I was working, I was required to complete course work on the subject and pass a test on what I studied. I've worked with abused children in residential psych facilities, and I've worked in jails, where female inmates often have histories of being severely abused. I also spent time living in a domestic abuse shelter, where I attended classes on the subject. None of that makes me an expert. But I have learned some things.

I am very interested in what people experienced in that area have to say on the subject. On a number of threads over the past 6 years, I have strenuously urged some PC members to contact domestic violence hot lines and get linked up to the support that is out their for victims of abuse. Experts on this subject have some surprising things to say. One point they make is that professional therapists, and even psychiatrists, who are not specifically trained in the realities of domestic abuse can the source of some really bad advice and detrimental input. They say that more than a few victims have been labeled by their own psychiatrists with false diagnoses that invalidated their complaints of being victimized. I worked in a longterm care facility where I, along with other staff, believed that a female resident (young with a severe crippling disease) was being abused by her husband who took her home on weekends. These were rich people and money can cover up a lot. This woman was seen by an expensive psychiatrist hired by her husband. This pdoc conveyed to us that nothing the woman said could be believed because her brain was damaged. Yes, her brain was damaged, but I totally believed her, as did my co-workers. That was a long time ago, when abuse was still swept under the rug, and no one wanted to know about it.

I also learned from domestic violence counselors that most victims will leave an abusive situation at least 8 times, only to keep returning to it, before possibly actually leaving for good. Of course, some never leave. So simply saying to someone "Yeah, he's abusive and you ought to dump him!" may not help very much.

This thread is titled "Confused." I agree with the OP that she is confused. If you lump every kind of behavior that disturbs you, under the heading of "controlling" or "abusive," then you don't have the clarity to identify what behavior is really objectionable and why it is so. That confusion makes a person more likely to get into an abusive relationship and stay in it.

My apology to the OP for having this side conversation. I do suspect, dispariassant, that what this man is offering you may not be worth having. He sounds kind of hostile to me, among other things. He also sounds rude, stingy and cold. But that hostile factor is what I find most concerning. If you think that you being "needy" somehow justifies him being hostile, then that's where you're really getting yourself mixed up. Victims of abuse tend to rationalize unconscionable behavior by seeing how something they did seemed to trigger the hostility. Maybe you are needy. Maybe you are so needy that you would get on any guy's nerves. (Just supposin.) That might be a reason for a guy to complain about it, or end a date early, or not talk to you for a week, or break up with you. But most guys, when they get annoyed, don't start shoving or talking with such hostility that you fear getting hit. That kind of behavior should not be lumped together with "Don't change the key adjustments on my guitar." My guess is that Crypts is right in suspecting that you probably have not offered some of the better examples of behavior that is truly out of bounds. You may be over-reacting to some not very important things and under-reacting to some really concerning stuff.

I'm OK
There's too much I could write about. I drank too much, I bought it myself, sometimes he's very upset if I have some of his beer.
He didn't like it.. he pulled me from behind and then pushed me and I fell hard to the floor. I'll write more later, but I am ok and safe now. Thank you two for sticking to the thread, and crypts if you read this, I respect your opinions also

He begrudges you a beer? Sounds like a real cheapskate.

Back with the pushing and shoving. Where does he get off . . . ?? So did you drive out to his house? and, maybe he wasn't thrilled to see you?

If it's a case of anything is better than being alone, then I'ld sooner go pick some random homeless guy up off the street, or out of a bar. I literally have done both of those "l and been treated nicer than what you're describing.

Glad you're okay.

Disregarding how I feel about him not being willing to share his beer with you - this time, this was your beer. You have complete right to drink beer you bought. He never has a right to push, shove, or otherwise maliciously put his hands on you - but this time, neither was there a reason for him to get upset.

I would be interested at this point to know if you see any blame for this in you, and if so how.. and what, if any, blame you assign to him?
I am also curious - if you were left to your own vices at this point, how do you see yourself attempting to handle this situation?

There's no uses in blaming anyone. No he had no right to hurt me, this was going on for a while, in a manipulative way. I asked him what he was thinking, he said "i guess I wanted to boss you around".... the guitar thing was a sudden change, so was his becoming self obsessed and drinking more, being selfish had worsened, and doubling his illegal cannabis smoking in the last few months.

I ended it. End of story, there are so many things I could say, but it is never right for anyone to abuse anyone by hitting, pushing, or verbally degrading someone with information they use that you gave them in trust.

Thanks everyone

I agree with you. I too have been through abuse. I am sorry I seem to have offended you. I did not mean to. If you ever want to talk to me, just pm me.
Sorry again.
Take care.

No I agree it is never right to do those things - I am glad you are safe.

He was offering you nothing. He sounds like a very disturbed and angry man.

Maybe because I grew up in a home colored by anger, I've always been turned off of men who demonstrate tendencies toward anger. (I always loved guys who could make me laugh.) It is hard to find someone worth being with when you're no longer real young. (It wasn't easy then, either, come to think of it.) My approach was to just keep discarding men who were unsuitable and see what was around the next corner. So, there were a lot of men, but I never stayed bogged down too long in something that was hopeless. My longtime bf I'm with now for many years is no prize, but we've had a lot of happiness, and I feel loved. Without that, I'ld rather be alone.

I disagree. The phrase abusive relationship is often misused and/or overly used and I find that there is a need to draw the line on what is actually abuse and what is just normal rules of living with another. I tend to agree with Rose on the statements that were made about all of the things he mentioned. The guitar and times she can come over. That isn't control. That's setting boundaries. It's quite dangerous to label such things as setting your own personal boundaries on your own times and valuables as control and especially potentially abusive.

There just isn't enough evidence here to pass judgment on this person.

On the question of cheating, I don't see enough evidence there to state that he's cheating on the poster either. It seems to me that there is a hint of insecurity on her part but nothing he's said is a glaring red flag that there is adultery present.

I honestly don't think that you should be considering staying with this person for life though, because clearly you're not secure in the relationship, for whatever reasons.