[ZenZeta]

I am so torn right now. I have been seeing a guy for a few months and he is sooooo nice. He's essentially the perfect guy. He's not bad looking, has a great job, a beautiful home, a nice car and he treats me very well. Despite some intrinsic commitment (i.e. title) issues, he SHOULD, be the perfect fit. He even has said the "L" word.

I have dreamed of the moment a guy would say that to me and mean it (which I hope he does - I have major trust issues), so... why am I not INTO him?

I find myself picking him apart for no real solid reason outside of the fact that we are quite different.

1) We both have great jobs, but he's climbing the corporate ladder. I, on the other hand, could command a much higher salary in corporate America but stay with my non profit because of the MISSION they represent. He comments about the fact that I could be making more. I don't care about that.

2) He is a big house and fancy car guy. I could care less about THINGS. He likes the McMansion with the lawn. I'm more of a one-bedroom loft kinda chick and will drive my used car until the wheels fall off. I actually think his lifestyle is a bit excess. Does he REALLY need all of those bedrooms?

3) His Sundays aren't complete without having some form of church in it. My sanctuary is a hiking trail with a camera around my neck. He's known that I'm Agnostic since our first date. Though I respect anyone's religion and will seek to understand it--even participate (I find prayer relaxing), I won't ever commit to any religion. It's not my thing.

4) He DOES NOT TALK. Well, he'll easily engage in small talk with strangers but doesn't have a lot to say outside of "surface" stuff. On the rare occasions that we have what I think is a meaningful conversation, I have to pull it out of him. He's perfectly fine with sitting at a meal ... in silence. At a park... in silence. I find our "conversations" exhausting.

Even more superficial of me:

5) I HATE his beard. I've told him that I don't like it, but always follow up with "It's your face..." I guess I could contend with that, but it AGES him.

6) He likes to shop. I HATE shopping. I try to compromise because he's not the most outdoorsy guy and he will accompany me to outdoor stuff. So when he shops, I find a chair and play on my phone. When I do outdoor stuff , he hangs back, but he seems surprised when we walk into a store and I don't make a beeline to the clothes or shoe section.

7) I don't like the way he dresses. It's like a hodge podge of colors and styles... (seriously, a pastel T shirt, camo pants, a plaid jacket from a suit, and old guy Stacy Adams shoes) He looks like he's trying to dress young but has this Santa beard so it looks ridiculous.

8) ... and the physical is just OK. Sometimes he can't really... rise to the occasion and will try to keep going which is uncomfortable.

BUT... he's SUPER nice to me, and I have a habit of being attracted to jerks. You know, the guy that's into the outdoorsy stuff like me but can't hold down a job... or the guy that dresses nicely and make me scream his name in 10 different languages but wants me to be one of many.

Here's a guy that could support me... that clearly cares about me and treats me like GOLD that I'm picking apart.

I've heard the couples that have been together for a long time say that it's not about the spark or the chemistry... that there's a slow burn.

He could really make nice long term material. What's wrong with me? I can see my future... turn down the nice guy then end up alone because the guys that give me the "spark" are A**HOLES.

I feel really badly about this. I SHOULD be grateful that someone like him even wants to be with me. Sorry this is so long... I don't know what to do.

[unaluna]

Why is he not talking? What is he not saying? Thats what i would worry about. Frankly i think he may be a closeted gay man. Do not acquiesce to his silence.

[sarahsweets]

Your gut is telling you stuff but your head and heart do not want to hear it....

It doesn't seem like you have a problem with being attracted to "the nice guy" instead of the jerk, it seems that is your problem though and it's holding you back from recognizing that you have completely different values at the core. That's a relationship that cannot work well long-term. You have to have similar and compatible values, which you do not. He may be very nice and treats you well, so that seems to be blinding you a bit. Everything you described describes opposing values. Plus, he sounds boring if you cannot have deeper or more interesting conversations. Sorry to say it, but from my own viewpoint, I don't see how it could work long-term. But at least you got out of a pattern of being attracted to jerks! That's a big step.

[MickeyCheeky]

I completely understand what you mean, ZenZeta! I'm so sorry you're going through all of this! I COMPLETELY agree with what all the other wise, wonderful posters have already wisely said better than I ever could! You've been given lots of GREAT, KINDF, SUPPORTIVE, WISE AND WONDERFUL ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS ON THIS THREAD! I'd suggest to tollow it as much as you can if you want to! I'd worry more about the fact that he doesn't talk that much. Communication is a VITAL part in EVERY relationship! If he's nto able to properly communicate with you some problems may arise in the future! I'd suggest to talk to him about ALL of this and see how it goes from there! Maybe that could help! Hopefully he'll listen to what you have to say and understand you! I feel like it's VERY IMPORTANT to talk about things like this to your boyfriend! It will be VERY important for your future! As for the rest I'm sure you'll BOTH be able to work it out if you just BOTH work together! Remember that we're here for you if you need it! Feel free to PM me anytime! Let us know if there's ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL that we can do to BOTH HELP YOU OUT! Just LET US KNOW and MENTION IT and we'll try to do EVERYTHING WE CAN and we'll TRY TO DO OUR BEST to BOTH HELP YOU OUT! I PROMISE YOU THAT! PLEASE REMEMBER ALL OF THAT! WISH YOU GOOD LUCK! Please keep us updated as much as you possibly CAN and let us know how it goes! We DO want to know how things are going for BOTH of you and when things will get better! PLEASE REMEMBER ALL OF THAT! Sending many hugs to you, ZenZeta!

[divine1966]

Well I wouldn’t focus on superficial stuff like facial hair of clothes, that could be changed over time. I also don’t think you should judge him for making good money. You mentioned that money isn’t important to you and you don’t want to have well paid job yet you don’t object to a possibility of him supporting you. It sounds hypocritical

What I would have a problem with him not talking. What’s up with not talking...

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by ZenZeta

but stay with my non profit because of the MISSION they represent.

He comments about the fact that I could be making more. I don't care about that.

He made a judging statement and isn't valuing your desire to choose a passionate cause over a larger sum of money. In feeling invisible, in walks the picking apart all his flaws, understandably so.

The best dating advice I ever received was this: the signs you ignore in the beginning of the relationship WILL be the reason you leave the relationship later. You always KNOW right away who is good and who is bad for you. Don't ignore that.

And to answer your question: you're totally settling. for the wrong guy. reread your post. you wrote down 8 ways he's incompatible with you. your post reads as you are trying to justify why you stay with a man who makes you unhappy, who judges your choices as "wrong" b/c he doesn't agree with them, who forces you to set aside your beliefs and your values, b/c he thinks his are more important than yours.

I think you know you're settling with this wrong guy as your romantic partner, but you are trying to justify staying. Why?

Nothing about your post indicates that he compromises for your beliefs or values, or you vice versa. Not 'caring' that he likes the expensive lifestyle and you don't, is your way of settling, of justifying 'why' you are settling; your 'i don't care' is concession that your beliefs and values aren't as important as his are, and so you put yourself second so that he will stay with you. That's how your post reads to me.

I usually only need 1 way a guy's incompatible with me before I walk away from dating him. And I spent two decades settling for the wrong guys, so not anymore.

Too many people settle with the wrong partner, so that they don't have to be alone. But that reasoning will come back to haunt them in ways they didn't foresee. Either, their partner will emotionally or verbally neglect or abuse them, or will physically abuse them, cheat on them, steal from them, there's countless ways that the wrong partner can harm the partner who chooses to knowingly "settle." I read stories in the news all the time about these scenarios.

There are multiple reasons you should NEVER settle in a relationship.

9 Things I Learned From "Settling" & Why I Won't Do It Again

17 Solid Reasons Why Settling In A Relationship Never Works Out

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

The best dating advice I ever received was this: the signs you ignore in the beginning of the relationship WILL be the reason you leave the relationship later. You always KNOW right away who is good and who is bad for you. Don't ignore that.

And to answer your question: you're totally settling. for the wrong guy. reread your post. you wrote down 8 ways he's incompatible with you. your post reads as you are trying to justify why you stay with a man who makes you unhappy, who judges your choices as "wrong" b/c he doesn't agree with them, who forces you to set aside your beliefs and your values, b/c he thinks his are more important than yours.

I completely agree with Blanche.

I agree all the spark stuff is silly and causes a lot of heart ache but you still should "like" the person. Frankly sounds like you don't really like him. You feel like you should be with him because he is "nice" to you.

You should get that plus a whole lot more.

A lot of times people "settle" not be alone. But then end up alone and lonely anyway while still married.

Exactly Emily. Just because a guy is "nice" to you, doesn't mean he's compatible with you for a relationship. So, because he's "nice" that means you automatically should date him? I've known lots of "nice" guys who were so wrong for me, it wasn't even funny. Yet I dated them because they were "nice" to me at first. But, I ignored the red flags that they showed me, which were the reasons why the relationship ended.

You've only dated him for 3 months. Already you have 8 red flags that you listed. When you're with the right guy, there simply are no flags. Zero. Even the superficial reasons aren't flags, if the guy is compatible.

And I agree with Emily. That whole "spark" thing is online dating propaganda for online dating websites. There is chemistry but no such thing as a spark.

I'd review your 8 reasons and look inside your heart and really hold yourself accountable for your choice here. If he doesn't even compromise with you about your values or beliefs, how can you justify that he's "nice" to you? Nice guys don't expect their partner's values or beliefs to be secondary to their own. They don't view them as negative on their lifestyle choices.

For example, I am an Atheist. I made the mistake of dating a religious guy. It was a mistake, because while I showed respect for his religious beliefs, he constantly evangelized to me about how I need God in my life. I couldn't take it anymore, so I dumped him. No man is going to tell me what my spiritual beliefs should be...ever.

Another example. I dated a musician. His first priority was playing his jazz music with his various jazz trios. In fact, such a priority, that our dates consisted of me going to his gigs with him, sitting at the bar, lonely, bored, and miserable, watching him perform and flirt with all the women in the room and then waiting around for him to stop networking and socializing that stopped around 2 a.m. On my birthday, he took me to a crappy bar where he had a gig. That was after he took me to a restaurant where he left me sitting alone at my table, while he left me to go talk to a blonde woman he used to date. No cake. no thank you for being my girlfriend speech. I forgot to add, he gave me a stupid book on yoga aphorism, that wasn't even wrapped. I don't even do yoga, nor mentioned it as an interest to him. So I have no idea why he gave me that book. I threw it out that day. It was one of the worst birthdays I ever had. And it was all about him and his needs.

Those are two examples of how settling is a colossal waste of time. Those two guys seemed like they'd be great because at first they were "nice" to me. Uh-uh. Didn't work out that way.

Just because he's "nice" to you, doesn't guarantee he's the best fit. It doesn't even sound like you like him from what you wrote. Your post sounds more like justifications and complaints. That's a sign that you know you're settling but for some reason you're trying to talk yourself out of settling, b/c you either don't like being alone, or I don't know the reason.

[TishaBuv]

Blah, this guy doesn’t sound appealing at all. Dump Papa Smurf. He does nothing for you.

I’ve seen so many couples, usually older, sit in silence together in restaurants. It’s so disturbing. If you are already sitting in silence, why would you want to be with him? What IS going on inside his mind when he is silent? Is he plotting a world take-over?

Maybe ask him to at least shave that awful beard and see if you can get him talking before bailing.

And the religion thing will be a big issue down the road. He will try to strong arm you into going. But that’s all the religious talk PC will allow.

[ZenZeta]

Interesting responses here.

I have dated a closeted gay man before and I don't get that vibe. Besides, I'm so PRO same gender loving that if he was, he could join my already LONG list of gay male friends!

So I did try to talk to him about my concerns (which I've done in the past), and he really seems to TRY to see my point of view, but underneath it all, he doesn't GET it.

His fix for the communication: "Would it be helpful if we came up with a list of topics to discuss..." (seriously)? He even commented that his "quietness" has caused him issues in the past.

He said the religion thing doesn't bother him, but it bothers ME. He misses church if I stay over on a Saturday night (despite me offering to leave when he leaves for church), and I wake up to him streaming the service online, and he seems to miss not being there physically. I don't want him to feel the need to choose between me and his supreme being.

..and yes, I'm SHOULDING all over myself. No matter how nice, we are fundamentally different which is a shame. He is WONDERFUL boyfriend material... just not for me.

[ZenZeta]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Well I wouldn’t focus on superficial stuff like facial hair of clothes, that could be changed over time. I also don’t think you should judge him for making good money. You mentioned that money isn’t important to you and you don’t want to have well paid job yet you don’t object to a possibility of him supporting you. It sounds hypocritical

What I would have a problem with him not talking. What’s up with not talking...

Another...interesting response Divine. Please read again. I don't have a problem with having a well paying job. Mine pays quite well but comes in way under "market" price for positions in a more corporate environment. HE suggests getting paid what I'm worth. I, on the other hand, am perfectly happy with supporting the mission of the non-profit for which I work and devote more UNPAID time to their philanthropic endeavors.

...and where have I indicated that I want or need anything outside of NON TANGIBLE support from this guy? I'm perfectly self-sufficient...

As my post indicates, he looks a bit baffled when we walk into a store and I don't stop to browse clothes, shoe or purse racks (BLECK). He says "I'll pay for whatever you pick out", and I decline because I'm so not into that. I thrift when needed. The only time I shop is if there's a need or an occasion

... and I put the beard and clothes last because those aren't necessarily deal breakers. Maybe if we had more in common FUNDAMENTALLY, it would be easier to deal with the silly superficial stuff like clothes and facial hair.

... as for the not talking. I have no idea. He's super intelligent and cerebral (which was an initial draw for me). I think he just likes to hang out in his own head...

[s4ndm4n2006]

The fact that you have a list of things that you're just not impressed by, and even are not happy about tells me that you're putting "practical" thoughts about this guy over actual connection. I don't know if you're settling or not I can't say but I can say that you really sound like you're thinking everything about dating a person ought to be about what they can bring to the table in practical terms and seem to be overly focused on that.

What I believe is true in any relationship is that even if on paper someone you're involved with as a friend or more intimately looks great, none of it matters if there is no real connection. If this is a new relationship and someone you just started seeing and the list of items that bug you are already easy to write down, it means there probably isn't enough there to overlook those things.

Just my thoughts.

[divine1966]

Sometimes it’s either there or it’s not. You can’t force it. If you have doubts if he is right match, he likely isn’t.

[Iloivar]

Originally Posted by ZenZeta

I am so torn right now. I have been seeing a guy for a few months and he is sooooo nice. He's essentially the perfect guy. He's not bad looking, has a great job, a beautiful home, a nice car and he treats me very well. Despite some intrinsic commitment (i.e. title) issues, he SHOULD, be the perfect fit. He even has said the "L" word.

I have dreamed of the moment a guy would say that to me and mean it (which I hope he does - I have major trust issues), so... why am I not INTO him?

I find myself picking him apart for no real solid reason outside of the fact that we are quite different.

1) We both have great jobs, but he's climbing the corporate ladder. I, on the other hand, could command a much higher salary in corporate America but stay with my non profit because of the MISSION they represent. He comments about the fact that I could be making more. I don't care about that.

2) He is a big house and fancy car guy. I could care less about THINGS. He likes the McMansion with the lawn. I'm more of a one-bedroom loft kinda chick and will drive my used car until the wheels fall off. I actually think his lifestyle is a bit excess. Does he REALLY need all of those bedrooms?

3) His Sundays aren't complete without having some form of church in it. My sanctuary is a hiking trail with a camera around my neck. He's known that I'm Agnostic since our first date. Though I respect anyone's religion and will seek to understand it--even participate (I find prayer relaxing), I won't ever commit to any religion. It's not my thing.

4) He DOES NOT TALK. Well, he'll easily engage in small talk with strangers but doesn't have a lot to say outside of "surface" stuff. On the rare occasions that we have what I think is a meaningful conversation, I have to pull it out of him. He's perfectly fine with sitting at a meal ... in silence. At a park... in silence. I find our "conversations" exhausting.

Even more superficial of me:

5) I HATE his beard. I've told him that I don't like it, but always follow up with "It's your face..." I guess I could contend with that, but it AGES him.

6) He likes to shop. I HATE shopping. I try to compromise because he's not the most outdoorsy guy and he will accompany me to outdoor stuff. So when he shops, I find a chair and play on my phone. When I do outdoor stuff , he hangs back, but he seems surprised when we walk into a store and I don't make a beeline to the clothes or shoe section.

7) I don't like the way he dresses. It's like a hodge podge of colors and styles... (seriously, a pastel T shirt, camo pants, a plaid jacket from a suit, and old guy Stacy Adams shoes) He looks like he's trying to dress young but has this Santa beard so it looks ridiculous.

8) ... and the physical is just OK. Sometimes he can't really... rise to the occasion and will try to keep going which is uncomfortable.

BUT... he's SUPER nice to me, and I have a habit of being attracted to jerks. You know, the guy that's into the outdoorsy stuff like me but can't hold down a job... or the guy that dresses nicely and make me scream his name in 10 different languages but wants me to be one of many.

Here's a guy that could support me... that clearly cares about me and treats me like GOLD that I'm picking apart.

I've heard the couples that have been together for a long time say that it's not about the spark or the chemistry... that there's a slow burn.

He could really make nice long term material. What's wrong with me? I can see my future... turn down the nice guy then end up alone because the guys that give me the "spark" are A**HOLES.

I feel really badly about this. I SHOULD be grateful that someone like him even wants to be with me. Sorry this is so long... I don't know what to do.

1) how frequent are his comments? And does he still mention it in spite of you expressing your lack of care for a higher salary?

2) Does he try to get you to live excessively along with him?

4) what's usually the context in which you have to pull out meaningful conversation from him?
And why is he so quiet? I know it just comes down to different wiring most of the time, but perhaps if he's able to articulate it there could be a way to work around it?

8) wouldn't say that's a superficial reason at all. Most of us after all are sexual beings, and most of us consider it an important aspect, at least at some point in our lives.

5 and 7 are attraction related. Nothing you can do about that I think.

[sarahsweets]

Some people are in to "things" and "stuff". I have rarely met people into "things and stuff" that connected to people into needs or altruism. Not saying its impossible. If you are not into spending money to "reward" yourself or spoil yourself or simply for the fun of it I do not see how that would change. And if he cant see that you are not into that then he really is missing something fundamental about who you are.

Here's another example of settling that I just experienced, going to see a movie with a guy I like. We have casually known each other for about one month and we went to a movie.

Prior to the movie, i warned him that I tend to be one of those movie-goers who tends to laugh loud and react loudly in movies (it's just in my DNA, can't change it).

He assured me that wouldn't bother him...as long as it didn't happen every time we went to a movie together (future talk - HUGE red flag from a guy I haven't even kissed yet).

So, I joked, "well, maybe we should sit in opposite sides of the theater b/c I don't want to 'not enjoy' myself just to please you. My comment pushed his buttons a little, but he said he was fine so I sat next to him. ME sitting next to him is a version of me "settling."

Low and behold, during a really exciting part of the movie, I gasped out loud, and he tried to 'shush me' by putting his right hand on top of my right arm. I knew instantly that this guy was the wrong guy for me.

That gesture from him, was his way of disapproving of me gasping out loud, and represents him trying to control my behavior. If I went out with him again I'd definitely be compromising myself.

So, I told him today via email that what he did (putting his hand on my arm to 'shush me' really pissed me off, and was the main reason I didn't want to see/hear from him again. He responded, 'ok, psycho." Um, can anyone say I dodged a bullet there based on his response? I think so.

Originally Posted by ZenZeta

Interesting responses here.

..and yes, I'm SHOULDING all over myself. No matter how nice, we are fundamentally different which is a shame. He is WONDERFUL boyfriend material... just not for me.

It's good that you acknowledge this now, only 3 months into dating him. You can now decide if you want to transition into just being platonic friends or dumping him altogether if you are really sure that he's not 'right' for you.

Maybe you two will get along better as just platonic friends? That's happened to me with a couple of guys, where we both mutually decided, "eeek, we are terrible romantic partners for each other, but we make for great buddies instead."

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

So, I told him today via email that what he did (putting his hand on my arm to 'shush me' really pissed me off, and was the main reason I didn't want to see/hear from him again. He responded, 'ok, psycho." Um, can anyone say I dodged a bullet there based on his response? I think so.

Notice your always psycho when you say what you want?

In general I don't like going to movies with anyone else period. I enjoy movies much more by myself when I can have my own reactions and really get into the movie. I have never understood movies as a date or friend experience. We can't even talk to each other? Crazy.

But you dodged a bullet.

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

Notice your always psycho when you say what you want?

In general I don't like going to movies with anyone else period. I enjoy movies much more by myself when I can have my own reactions and really get into the movie. I have never understood movies as a date for friend experience. We can't even talk to each other? Crazy.

But you dodged a bullet.

THANK YOU EMILY.

I am like you. I rarely go to movies with other people, b/c of this exact situation; I am shamed for being myself! I mean, WTH!

Yes, isn't it amazing how I was clear with what my standards are with this guy, and he responds by shaming me, calling me a 'psycho.' You know, even 5 years ago, I didn't have the self esteem level high enough to state my standards out loud. I was too 'people pleasing.' But now that I'm nearly 50, I'm like, "this is what I expect or want, and if you can't give that to me, 'buh-bye!" And somehow, that garners negative reactions from men that I meet. So, clearly those are the WRONG men for me!

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

But now that I'm nearly 50, I'm like, "this is what I expect or want, and if you can't give that to me, 'buh-bye!" And somehow, that garners negative reactions from men that I meet. So, clearly those are the WRONG men for me!

I think after you get over a certain age you just don't have anymore F**s to give. I think when we are younger we have a "reserve" of forbearance for others. But by the time you get to mid age... you are done, you have nothing left to give people. You simply cannot be "polite" any longer for very long.

One reason I enjoy hanging out with younger people as they still seem able to "be polite" / be able to forbear for others.

... as for the not talking. I have no idea. He's super intelligent and cerebral (which was an initial draw for me). I think he just likes to hang out in his own head...

Here is what I think... in my experience when guys stop talking they aren't happy and are trying to keep from saying something that you won't like. They will say they are in their own head but they are in their own head, talking to themselves about what an idiot you are.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

Here is what I think... in my experience when guys stop talking they aren't happy and are trying to keep from saying something that you won't like. They will say they are in their own head but they are in their own head, talking to themselves about what an idiot you are.

Im gonna tattoo this on my chest. Its brilliant.

[divine1966]

I don’t think anyone should be dating anyone else if they have whatever reason not to or no reason at all. I don’t believe it’s unusual to not want to date someone or that it makes one crazy not to want to date someone else. If after few dates or especially months and he or she seems wrong, then it’s an easy fix. Move on. People mention settling but no one is required or expected to settle whatsoever. Just do what suits you.

[maria5043]

I don't know if it this will help...I had a boyfriend like that once. Treated me well, beginning good career and set on earning good money, had a nice car, was very understanding and would do a lot for me to be happy. Yes, had a couple of flaws, that could be worked on...But he had different values. Looks were important to him, he needed to stay in hotel while I am ok camping. I would venture on a multiple day hiking trip, while he would call me 'crazy' doing something like that. Somehow we lasted in a relationship for a year. Back then, I even said once I could imagine marrying him (because nothing was apparently wrong with him, right!). When I look back now, we were just so not compatible. I think you can make it work with someone who is different when you love them and do not want to live without them despite the differences. But if that is not the case, it is work. There is never a guarantee you will meet someone perfect, but life is so much easier with someone who is compatible to you.