Finding hidden cameras

Thank you Have Hope. I am definitely being more conscious this time about how I respond and handle this incident.
Yesterday, I did make an appointment with a new therapist. Until then I am going to work on myself in creating awareness and educating myself. I have to be very firm in setting some boundaries. I know my relationship with my husband is going to take a great shift towards a different direction. That direction will depend on how he responds.

Ok. I’m glad you’re seeking therapy. Just don’t expect your husband to change. You may change, but he will not. This may be a long process for you before you finally call it quits.

I hope you understand that I wasn’t raised to just give up on marriage on a whim. There has only been three divorces in the past 4 generations of my entire family. Before I got married to my husband I was the only single mom in my family. I know I will change. I hope that he changes. But if he doesn’t then that will determine a lot of our future.

I admit I have trouble understanding.

He has hit you, he is very controlling of you, and he is very abusive towards you. Yet you’re clinging onto what? The illusion of true love in your marriage?

Healthy love does NOT involve control, spying, or hitting. And abuse is always about power and control over another. Abuse is NOT love!

Your children WILL suffer the consequences and will grow up to become dysfunctional unhealthy children and adults because they had a mother who refused to walk away from an abuser, simply because no one in the family gets a divorce.

This may sound harsh or judgmental of me, but you’re not putting your kids’ growth and health first, and I think that’s most saddening.

Your children WILL suffer because you’re too stubborn to walk away and because are willing to put up with abuse.

And leaving at this point wouldn’t be on a whim. You’ve said this has been ongoing for a long time now. It's not on a whim. It would be based on a history of abuse that keeps escalating and getting worse over time.

So when you’re bruised because he’s battered you and you’re hiding your bruises from your kids are you still going to defend staying in the marriage because your family doesn’t divorce? Or because you say you love him and cannot give up on the marriage?

When is enough going to be enough? After he beats you to a pulp the next time? Or the time after that?

It’s very foolish to think he will change. And it’s foolish to believe you can knock sense into him. You’re trying to “fix” a most broken and toxic man. The person you’re fooling Is yourself.

I’d not refer to your situation as “giving up on marriage on a whim”. You are degraded and mistreated for years with kids seeing it. Including physical abuse. It’s not the same as giving up on a whim.

Giving up on a whim would be leaving a spouse because one got bored or their spouse didn’t fold the laundry or they had one argument.

Not saying you have to leave your spouse but it would be leaving because of repeated abuse and not on a whim. I don’t believe anyone is raised to just leave marriage on a whim. Escaping abuse and leaving for mundane lack of commitment to marriage isn’t the same thing.

I think it’s a great thing to not have divorces in the family because people marry good partners and right marches, not because people simply tolerate abuse.

It’s good you have hopes. Sadly you already gave him many opportunities to change yet he never did. I hope you don’t endanger yourself and children by staying in hopes he changes.

Put a code on your phone. Then he can’t go through it. Why are you allowing him to go through your phone?

This explains a lot.

Don't fool yourself that these were all heavenly happy marriages because there were no divorces. The women (and men) would stay in unhappy/abusive marriages because on some level divorce was taboo.
This is often a cultural/religious thing, even if just a familial culture as in your case. It in no way signifies these were all blissful marriages.

You may very well find yourself years down the road, watching your children in their own dysfunctional relationships, as this is what they know.
You don't want to live a life of regret seeing the damage caused to your children because you stayed in an abusive relationship.

I understand you want to give it your all before you end your marriage, and that is an admiral thing, but we're talking abuse here, and he may never change, especially without intensive therapy, preferably on his own with a therapist who specializes in that. Then after that couples therapy.
Perhaps this could be done while in a trial separation (staying with your parents?). This could result in your either ending the marriage knowing you did all you could, or he may actually come to know the damage he is doing to his family, and actually change.

If he is not taking therapy seriously try mediation services a paint of neutral third parties will hear both your sides and then try to get him to hear and understand how and why his actions are violating your trust and relationship and will broker a contract between the two of you ,this way it is in writting and someone else is aware of his behaviour, it establishes a paper trail to protect you , I have been a mediator and victim advocate in the court system for 30 years ,this is not normal or healthy ,but I have seen it before and seen it both work and not work ,in your situation I don't have a crystal ball ,however getting someone else involved very often gets the point across that he is out of bounds ,and is jeopardizing the family , the one he claims to be wanting to endure is safe . He needs to understand his actions are having the opposite effect on you .

And I am sorry to say you both need to stop resorting to violence to try and get your point heard ,violence never works especialy in a domestic relationship , eventually it will escalate from slaps to something worse ,you can't hunting that bell ,however you can admit neither of you should have done it in the past or future .

Always let calmer heads prevail ,if he doesn't get your point or vice versa walk away and try again later .

I want to thank everyone for your feedback. As difficult as it may be to take it in, I need to hear others perspective so I don’t turn a blind eye on all these red flags. I don’t want to fall into the same traps as before and fall back into his arms without fixing anything.
Although, the mediator idea would be grand I already know that he will not agree to that for the same reason that it leaves a paper trail.
I went to a center for battered woman over an incident that occurred over a year ago when I was last pregnant and I remember how furious he became that I would involve the authorities and have everything documented. And of course, to this day he hasn’t admitted any fault for that incident.

It’s very difficult to cope with the idea that my marriage could be in the beginning of its end. We’ve only exchanged a handful of words the last few days that only involved our children’s caretaking. I just feel that there is so much left undone and unsaid. I’m staying true to my faith so I can be strong enough to do what is best for my kids. They deserve the best home environment I can provide for them. Although they haven’t seen us get physical with each other, I don’t want to wait around and do nothing until it happens.

@lady411, going to your parents' home would be the best way to prevent that from happening.

May I ask what you went to the battered women's center over? Was it over one of the times he hit you, or something else? What did they say to you or tell you to do?

I grew up witnessing my father constantly criticizing and controlling my mother. My parents committed to staying together and honoring the marriage commitment. My father never admitted being wrong, never appolized and tended to insist things went bad because my mother did not do XYZ.

Truth is, many marriages in the older generations were set up where the MAN rules the roost and is "king of his castle" and what he says goes. When you share that your husband resists therapy and marriage counseling and goes and doesn't listen, may even disassociate during the session, this means he doesn't care to change. And actually, more than likely it is bearable to stay due to your husband being absent for so many hours of the day too. You don't have romantic dinners, nights where you put the children to bed and light a warm fire and talk with each other and plan and really enjoy each other's company. Instead, your relationship is more about a "power and control" struggle and conversations are more about "who wins" and some competitive undertone that has already escalated into "slapping" each other.

Tell me, "what is YOUR identity"? Sometimes, it is more of an enabler and codependent and caregiver and dependent than genuinely actually having YOUR OWN identity. Sometimes THAT is what the tradition really is that your parents and family practiced that you may have NEVER even noticed. Often, what a person looks for UNKNOWINGLY is "the familiar" and they find themselves actually creating and living the very same kind of relationship their parents lived.

Take another look at that " Abuse Wheel" Have Hope posted, often that is what the children see happen, that they imprint as "normal" and "familiar". Actually, I watched the movie "The Help" not so long ago. It showed how this African American woman was the one that cared for the child and tried to consider that child's sense of well being despite how the mother behaved. When things went bad and the African American women opened up and talked they said "Despite our efforts these children end up growing up to be JUST LIKE their mothers/parents". If you take away the aspect of racism, what it really reveals is how imprinting works in general.

Children are little sponges, they absorb a lot more than is realized, yet, we are beginning to realize this fact more and more as we sit and contemplate "THE WHYS" to behavior patterns in different human beings. My own daughter said to me one day, "What I saw mom was how daddy always seemed happy go lucky and YOU tended to be more stressed and worried". Well, what my daughter was observing was how her father was a good father to her, but handed ME that "Abuse Wheel" that Have Hope posted. My husband was a binge alcoholic and he tended to blame a lot of our marriage problems on me. I LIVED THAT WHEEL myself and I too wanted to TRY and keep my marriage together. My husband did not physically hit me, but he was dismissive, he slammed doors and would be out all night drinking on a binge. My husband most definitely had two sides to him "Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde".

If I had known about that "wheel of abuse" I would have never stayed and I probably would have never even married my husband either. No, I was just like you in that I wanted to try to make things better and I wanted to honor the committment of marriage just as you want to do so and KEEP that tradition going where no one divorced in your family. Well, I am older, 63, and have stayed committed to this thing called marriage for going on 40 years now. At one point when I was separated after finding out how my husband even cheated on me on a couple of his so called "binges" that if I could repair my marriage it would be better for my child. Yet, when I was separated what encouraged me to most to try was how my daughter looked up at me and asked me if I was going to break up with her father. Then she tearfully said to me "Well, it's just that I felt special because I was one of the few in my class who's parents were still together". Then a psychologist told me knowing how much I loved my child that it would be better for her if I tried to work on my marriage and keep my family together.

Truth is, a mother often wants to give her children a father and mother family together in a home. A mother doesn't want a broken family, she wants that dream of that little house with that white picket fence and that sense of "family". I love my father and I love my mother but I HATED the way my father treated my mother. My father worked and provided for, but he set a poor example when it came to how a husband should treat his wife. My mother would say "We have to accept people for the way they are". So I tried to do just that and it ended up hurting me ALL MY LIFE. Truth is, without realizing it, I was taught to love someone even though that someone behaved in TOXIC ways.

Lots of people ask, "how come I seem to attract the wrong type of person"? Often it's because of how the person has learned how to accept abusive behavior patterns UNKNOWINGLY. Your husband has INVADED your boundaries, he doesn't want to accept responsiblity, he WANTS you to be a codependent and allow him the control. Is that what you want your children to see as NORMAL when it comes to a relationship? Do you honestly think this man's two older children are going to KNOW what a normal relationship is supposed to be like? I am sure they "love" their daddy right? Yet, is he teaching them that it's ok to love a man that is controlling and abusive? Does this so called "daddy" even realize that his two children will more than likely choose some VERSION OF HIM? That his children will attract some version of him? That something will be "familiar" that seems "safe" to them when THAT is actually going to end up HURTING them too?

This is why YOU need therapy yourself. You need to understand what you are allowing for this ideal of thinking you need to keep your marriage together like your parents and their parents did. You need to learn about how that can end up teaching your own children how "toxic" is normal and acceptable. You need to understand that YOU cannot "fix" your husband. You need to look at him in a very different REALISTIC way and allow yourself to see the truth about him and that he may genuinely have no interest what so ever in fixing his own behavior patterns that will constantly challenge you AND what his children witness how he choosed to treat their mother. And you can't JUST hide the hurt you experience from them either.

PERFECTLY stated. Thank you for this post.

Did you ask him why he had put camera in the bedroom? Did you explain that he could get into legal trouble for putting a camera in the house should a friend discovered it?

I am really considering staying at my parents for some time but before I do I want to be completely sure about it. I just don’t want to repeat that cycle either. We went to church this morning and it’s just not the same. I could barely even let him hold my hand. I’m afraid to be receptive to him and allow him to be intimate with me.

I went because of an incident that involved him becoming verbally and physically abusive with me while I was 7 months pregnant and holding our 1 year old... WOW that sounds horrible as I’m typing it. This happened when we were going to counseling together. They told me they would report it to Child Protective Services which I expected. They said it was entirely up to me to leave him or not. I went to a few meetings but stopped going after our relationship got better. I can see how this sounds. I’m am a hopeless romantic. But I am being completely honest.

@lady411, He physically was abusive while you were pregnant and holding your baby??

I have a feeling he has been physically abusive towards you more than the two times you’ve let us know about.

Why on earth are you still with him?? Don’t you see what you’re doing to your own children?

WHY haven’t you left yet?

Please call a battered women’s help line. You really need counseling and you need sense knocked into you.

Why you believe that physical abuse equals love is beyond my comprehension. What could you possibly still love about a man who beats you physically and verbally?

You cannot fix HIM, he has to do his part and want to change and get help to do just that.

Sadly since you aren’t documenting abuse and aren’t involving domestic abuse shelters or police, you’ll have hard time proving abuse if you decide to divorce him. He’ll likely get custody of children or shared custody or unsupervised visitations and there is no way of telling if he will be inserting cameras in his daughters bedrooms and slapping them how he slaps you.

Of course he was mad you reported it once. He doesmt want any evidence

@lady411, may I ask you something? Were you abused as a child, or did you grow up in an abusive home environment where you witnessed physical/emotional/verbal abuse between your parents?

With divorce and supervised visitation for the children with their morally bankrupt father. And I'm not kidding. Run away from that. Get a good lawyer. Don't hold back. Tell what this man has done so that he can't act weird around the children and get away with it.

Yes he has been abusive on more than two occasions. But I have always felt like I provoked him. It’s like I feel like I deserved which I know I don’t. No one deserves to be treated like that. But the times that I have been abusive to him he has also taken it lightly which is also wrong.
It just makes me think that we are both not good for each other. I see how much other couples have overcome and that’s one of the reasons I haven’t left him.
I will definitely go to individual counseling and hope he goes to couple therapy.
In no way do I believe physical abuse equals love. That would be stupid. He has many qualities and as naive as it may sound I do see us getting us past this. But this situation will only change with me. I will not continue to accept this advisor behavior as the norm.

@lady411,

Honey, that is exactly what the abusive person wants you to believe. That somehow you deserved the abuse, that you provoked it and that it's your fault.

You are conditioned to believe these things most falsely, probably because he blames you for his abusive behaviors. He probably .tells you he wouldn't hit you unless you provoked him.

You must understand that in no way shape or form does anyone deserve to ever be hit in a relationship -- not even once. Even if you did provoke him or anger him, that does not excuse the behavior or justify him hitting you. Do you understand?

I don't know how many times I can say this to you.. he will not change.

You are in a trap in your own mind, and only you can free yourself from your own false beliefs. Everyone here is encouraging you to leave, and is saying the same things as I am.

Your therapist will encourage you to leave as well.

Please call a women's abuse victim's hotline. I called one when I was being severely abused, and it literally saved my life.

Here's the national domestic abuse website and hotline number:
National Domestic Violence Hotline | Get Help Today | 1-800-799-7233

1-800-799-7233.

I understand completely that I cannot fix him. But I have faith that he wants his family to succeed and that he will do what he needs to do to keep his family together.

It's most saddening and heartbreaking that you're not hearing us. Don't become another battered women's statistic, which is what you're headed for right now. You're determined to try to convince him to change his ways. And I promise you, he will not. Maybe short-term for a month or a few weeks, but not for long. I wish you all the best and good luck.