[Have Hope]

Continued from this thread:

Marriage may need to end: enormous grief and sadness

I thought I'd start a new thread.

I cannot make any moves to end the marriage for at least 8 months, when I can gather the money to leave and move out.

He is on and off again abusive. There are many abusive elements going on that when added up, all point to a pattern of toxic and abusive behaviors that are impacting me most negatively, amounting to a deepening depression and deep unhappiness for me.

He yells at me on and off again and periodically, creating and escalating things into massive knock down drag out toxic and abusive (on his end) fights. He sometimes makes mean jokes at my expense, which are really put downs and cutting remarks disguised as "jokes". He used to blame me for anything and everything that went wrong. He's controlling. He's very defensive and cannot take any constructive feedback or criticism and if I do provide it, he feels the need to attack me or start a fight. He used to not be able to handle being "wrong" whatsoever (but that's improved), and he used to not apologize for any of his hurtful accusations, statements or remarks. He also doesn't take responsibility or ownership of any problems he exhibits, ie, having an anger and rage problem, for example.

Some things have improved over time, but for the last month and since the last time he yelled at me, I've been contemplating and seriously considering divorce.

But like I wrote above, I don't have the money saved to do anything drastic just yet, so I feel very stuck where I am for the next 8 months at least. Hence, my growing sense of uneasiness, depression and unhappiness.

There's a small, tiny part of me that also doesn't want to end things, and a part of me still loves parts of him, I suppose, but I've also been questioning whether I do truly still love him. When he's being loving, affectionate, sweet and kind, it's easy to fall back into feelings of love, but then he'll do something abusive, and I go back to hating him and wanting a divorce.

It's been a very up and down roller coaster ride in our marriage, with far too many fights.

Everything is weighing on me right now, and I feel the weight of all the toxic past and present behaviors towards me pulling me down into depression. I cannot relax. And I cannot feel much happiness right now.

I don't know how to cope while I make this most agonizing decision. And it IS agonizing.

Though he was 100% against couples therapy previously, our current agreement is that IF he yells at me again and loses his temper, we will go. Now he at least acknowledges that he does have a temper.

I don't have much hope for this relationship, however, and the majority of me (90%?) believes I will have to file for divorce, which saddens me enormously and crushes my heart.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

Continued from this thread:

Marriage may need to end: enormous grief and sadness

I thought I'd start a new thread.

I cannot make any moves to end the marriage for at least 8 months, when I can gather the money to leave and move out.

He is on and off again abusive. There are many abusive elements going on that when added up, all point to a pattern of toxic and abusive behaviors that are impacting me most negatively, amounting to a deepening depression and deep unhappiness for me.

He yells at me on and off again and periodically, creating and escalating things into massive knock down drag out toxic and abusive (on his end) fights. He sometimes makes mean jokes at my expense, which are really put downs and cutting remarks disguised as "jokes". He used to blame me for anything and everything that went wrong. He's controlling. He's very defensive and cannot take any constructive feedback or criticism and if I do provide it, he feels the need to attack me or start a fight. He used to not be able to handle being "wrong" whatsoever (but that's improved), and he used to not apologize for any of his hurtful accusations, statements or remarks. He also doesn't take responsibility or ownership of any problems he exhibits, ie, having an anger and rage problem, for example.

Some things have improved over time, but for the last month and since the last time he yelled at me, I've been contemplating and seriously considering divorce.

But like I wrote above, I don't have the money saved to do anything drastic just yet, so I feel very stuck where I am for the next 8 months at least. Hence, my growing sense of uneasiness, depression and unhappiness.

There's a small, tiny part of me that also doesn't want to end things, and a part of me still loves parts of him, I suppose, but I've also been questioning whether I do truly still love him. When he's being loving, affectionate, sweet and kind, it's easy to fall back into feelings of love, but then he'll do something abusive, and I go back to hating him and wanting a divorce.

It's been a very up and down roller coaster ride in our marriage, with far too many fights.

Everything is weighing on me right now, and I feel the weight of all the toxic past and present behaviors towards me pulling me down into depression. I cannot relax. And I cannot feel much happiness right now.

I don't know how to cope while I make this most agonizing decision. And it IS agonizing.

Though he was 100% against couples therapy previously, our current agreement is that IF he yells at me again and loses his temper, we will go. Now he at least acknowledges that he does have a temper.

I don't have much hope for this relationship, however, and the majority of me (90%?) believes I will have to file for divorce, which saddens me enormously and crushes my heart.

I am so sorry, HH. I was in an abuisve relationship for a long time. We have a child and I wanted to make it work for her. But this woman is just beyond abusive and will never admit she has any issue. I left finally. Should have done it years before. She will never change.

8 months is a helluva long time. All it takes is about 4 or 5 seconds on a really, realy bad night for him, and you could be dead. Happens every sinlge day. I think you should get out of there now, even if you have to go to a shelter.

Love and support.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

I am so sorry, HH. I was in an abuisve relationship for a long time. We have a child and I wanted to make it work for her. But this woman is just beyond abusive and will never admit she has any issue. I left finally. Should have done it years before. She will never change.

8 months is a helluva long time. All it takes is about 4 or 5 seconds on a really, realy bad night for him, and you could be dead. Happens every sinlge day. I think you should get out of there now, even if you have to go to a shelter.

Love and support.

I think he is not physically abusive and Have Hope feels safe. I think if she leaves now she’ll be stuck paying half of the rent for the apartment she won’t live in as well as a rent at a new place. I do agree that abuse escalates though. That’s concerning to say the least

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

I am so sorry, HH. I was in an abuisve relationship for a long time. We have a child and I wanted to make it work for her. But this woman is just beyond abusive and will never admit she has any issue. I left finally. Should have done it years before. She will never change.

8 months is a helluva long time. All it takes is about 4 or 5 seconds on a really, realy bad night for him, and you could be dead. Happens every sinlge day. I think you should get out of there now, even if you have to go to a shelter.

Love and support.

Thank you so much, @bpcyclist.

I'm very sorry to hear about your own past relationship. I know many people now at this stage who say they stayed far too long, but typically it's because of children.

But I'm not in any danger. He has never been physically abusive, though I do know that physical abuse is always preceded by emotional and verbal abuse statistically. There's always that possibility, but I have never felt unsafe in that way.

8 months IS a long time. I definitely do not want to go to any shelter, but if I had to, I would... IF it did come down to physical abuse.

I also finally just told my parents about what's going on, and they insinuated that if he ever did hit me, that I would have a place to stay. Their condo is very small for 3 people (tiny for 3), but it could be a place for me to stay short-term at least if I absolutely needed it.

Thank you again for your kind words.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I think he is not physically abusive and Have Hope feels safe. I think if she leaves now she’ll be stuck paying half of the rent for the apartment she won’t live in as well as a rent at a new place. I do agree that abuse escalates though. That’s concerning to say the least

Yes, that is correct. We JUST renewed our lease this June, so leaving means I have to break the lease and find a substitute roommate to take over my lease. Without that roommate in place, I would be paying both rent in the old place and new place, which I definitely cannot afford.

I agree that it's all very concerning.

[Have Hope]

It was a little odd -- last night we were out getting dinner for ourselves, and I told him that my head felt "heavy". He then said in reply, "it is with heavy hearts and heads that we announce..." then he never finished the sentence. I asked him what the end of the sentence was supposed to be and he said "nothing" and "I had nothing to end the sentence with".

I couldn't help but think that sentence ended with "divorce". It was too coincidental because I've been thinking of divorce, and that word fits perfectly within the sentence.

So it makes me wonder if he is wondering and thinking the same things. I do not know, but I almost don't care.

[Have Hope]

I am also gathering my support system together, which is a most important step I need to take right now. I am reaching out to my closest girlfriends and am letting them into what's going on. I've reached out to my each family member and have told them what's going on. I've reached out to a few people at work to get their support through this.

This is much needed right now, as I can't go through this ordeal without a lot of support. The only way I will survive it is if I have a strong support system.

A month ago when I started thinking this way, all sorts of scary thoughts were floating around. I was scared to be single again at my age (nearly 50), I was worried about how we would split up all our belongings, and I was worried about all the logistics involved, including hiring a lawyer, what happens when I announce this to him and how we will live together under the same roof after I've told him.

I am working with my individual therapist each week. He is new to me, so unfortunately there's the "getting to know you" phase to get through. He wasn't of much help to me yesterday in our session, which was a HUGE bummer for me. He got stuck for a full half hour on our financial issues, so I finally changed the subject because I felt we were not getting anywhere.

And there ARE financial complications. The 8 months I need to save money is also needed for my husband to pay me back a sum of money he owes me. I do not want any financial ties with him after I decide to leave. I want the full amount to be paid to me before I move out. Quite unfortunately, I have co-signed a car lease for him which is. not over for two more years, so there WILL be financial ties to him, regardless.

But, things are in motion. I am taking steps. Another next step for me is to find a lawyer for a free consultation.

But I AM scared. We share a social circle and the same social life. We go out to all the same places, so I worry about the fallout of how all of that will work once all is said and done. I am trying not to worry about things that are miles ahead of me though.... one step at a time. If I worry too much about all the details, I will become chicken and will never go through with this.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

It was a little odd -- last night we were out getting dinner for ourselves, and I told him that my head felt "heavy". He then said in reply, "it is with heavy hearts and heads that we announce..." then he never finished the sentence. I asked him what the end of the sentence was supposed to be and he said "nothing" and "I had nothing to end the sentence with".

I couldn't help but think that sentence ended with "divorce". It was too coincidental because I've been thinking of divorce, and that word fits perfectly within the sentence.

So it makes me wonder if he is wondering and thinking the same things. I do not know, but I almost don't care.

That phrase typically follows with: Announce.passing of someone. Like in obituary or funeral home. You don’t really announce divorce.

Are you both on a lease? Both names?

If you just leave he’d not be able to pay it for it alone right? Too expensive? Unless he finds a roommate but that takes a minute. Yeah you almost have to wait for end of a lease

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

That phrase typically follows with: Announce.passing of someone. Like in obituary or funeral home. You don’t really announce divorce.

Are you both on a lease? Both names?

If you just leave he’d not be able to pay it for it alone right? Too expensive? Unless he finds a roommate but that takes a minute. Yeah you almost have to wait for end of a lease

Oh I see.... OK. Of course in my own mind, I immediately thought he was thinking of divorce.

Both our names are on the lease, yes. I am financially responsible for my portion of the rent, OR I must find a roommate to take over my lease. I've done that once before.

And yes, my husband cannot cover the full rent by himself. A roommate will be necessary in order for him to remain living here. I know he won't like that, but if (hypothetically) I move out by Feb or March of next year, the lease renews in June '21 again and he could decide to move out then, if he wanted to. That's only a few months with a new roommate.

Alternatively, I could (barely) just afford to live in our current apartment alone, and HE could move out. But he won't have $6000 to move out, and I am able to save the money, so I think it makes more sense that I plan on moving out. Plus, I think I'd rather start over in a new apartment for myself, and not have any memories of our current place lingering around.

[Have Hope]

Then again, IF I am able to land a Director level role between now and March, I could potentially save the money I need within just 3 months.

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

It was a little odd -- last night we were out getting dinner for ourselves, and I told him that my head felt "heavy". He then said in reply, "it is with heavy hearts and heads that we announce..." then he never finished the sentence. I asked him what the end of the sentence was supposed to be and he said "nothing" and "I had nothing to end the sentence with".

I couldn't help but think that sentence ended with "divorce". It was too coincidental because I've been thinking of divorce, and that word fits perfectly within the sentence.

So it makes me wonder if he is wondering and thinking the same things. I do not know, but I almost don't care.

Given how much you are thinking and writing about it--he must sense what is going on. He might even be following this thread!

[nicoleflynn]

I got a divorce after 31 years of verbal and physical abuse. It is usually NOT a good idea to go to couples counseling....the abuser needs to get counseling for their issues, before couples counseling is indicated. I wasn't aware of that, and we went as a couple...it was a disaster. One thing that is helpful is to stop responding to abuse....abusers are emotional vampires;; they want and need you to keep explaining yourself. ...it never ends. They are excruciatingly insecure. The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans saved my life. Even tho you don't have the money yet, you can see an attorney....consultations are usually free; making that first small step give you information and helps you feel a little better. Love and hugs, you can pm me if you like.

Remember that abusers don't LOSE their tempers...they CHOOSE their behavior; usually abusers only do it to someone behind closed doors

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by TunedOut

Given how much you are thinking and writing about it--he must sense what is going on. He might even be following this thread!

I know he senses something, yes. Lately, he's been noticing that I am off.. that something is wrong, and he asks me about it. I always tell him I am "fine". Once I told him I have a lot of my mind, and left it at that.

I worried he was looking into my computer to see what I am writing about. He knows I am on a forum. But I keep the tab hidden from open view, IF he did ever just open my computer out of curiosity.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

I got a divorce after 31 years of verbal and physical abuse. It is usually NOT a good idea to go to couples counseling....the abuser needs to get counseling for their issues, before couples counseling is indicated. I wasn't aware of that, and we went as a couple...it was a disaster. One thing that is helpful is to stop responding to abuse....abusers are emotional vampires;; they want and need you to keep explaining yourself. ...it never ends. They are excruciatingly insecure. The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans saved my life. Even tho you don't have the money yet, you can see an attorney....consultations are usually free; making that first small step give you information and helps you feel a little better. Love and hugs, you can pm me if you like.

Remember that abusers don't LOSE their tempers...they CHOOSE their behavior; usually abusers only do it to someone behind closed doors

Aw, thank you. I may just take you up on your offer. I know you write a lot on here about that book which really helped you.

My thought is individual counseling for him will do ZERO good for him, and in fact, could have the opposite effect. He is in total denial that he has a problem, and of course, would NEVER EVER admit to being abusive. He thinks of himself as a totally loving person. Only just recently did he admit that maybe he has a temper, because I put my foot down, drew a line, and insisted he does.

IF we ever did make it to couples counseling, I FULLY believe he would try to deflect all the issues away from himself, and try to blame ME for all the issues. I don't have the patience for someone who is going to not take any responsibility, deflect blame, and blame me instead. And that's what I predict would happen in therapy, because it's exactly how he's behaved with me all this time. Deflect, deflect, deflect, and blame.

So I don't think counseling would do any good, unless the therapist is really astute to abuse tactics, sees him for who he is, calls him out on it and doesn't let him manipulate and twist the issues around.

[Have Hope]

And today is one of those days where I feel love for him. This is seriously maddening for me.... and crazy making. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

Thank you so much, @bpcyclist.

I'm very sorry to hear about your own past relationship. I know many people now at this stage who say they stayed far too long, but typically it's because of children.

But I'm not in any danger. He has never been physically abusive, though I do know that physical abuse is always preceded by emotional and verbal abuse statistically. There's always that possibility, but I have never felt unsafe in that way.

8 months IS a long time. I definitely do not want to go to any shelter, but if I had to, I would... IF it did come down to physical abuse.

I also finally just told my parents about what's going on, and they insinuated that if he ever did hit me, that I would have a place to stay. Their condo is very small for 3 people (tiny for 3), but it could be a place for me to stay short-term at least if I absolutely needed it.

Thank you again for your kind words.

Hugs and support.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

Hugs and support.

Thank you!!!

[Have Hope]

I took a leap of faith when I got married. I realize now that I have to also take a leap of faith in making myself single again. I am scared, I admit, to be single again, especially at my age when so many people and friends around me are partnered up, including my sister who is engaged to be married. Family events may be hard again for me...... the last time I was truly single, it was really hard on me, but then again, I was in a bad spot in life too, which impacted my happiness level.

I also realized that it could take more than 8 months for me to be able to move out.

A part of me previously was feeling guilty for wanting to leave him. But I do not feel guilty for taking care of myself, for looking out for my well-being and for my happiness in life. I have to look out for myself, and if I don't, no one else will. My happiness is MY solo responsibility. And if he doesn't make me happy? I have no choice but to leave. I refuse to live miserably. It's against my nature at this age and at this juncture in my life.

[Have Hope]

Just talked to my mother. She was NOT helpful. Telling me it's going to be lonely to be single and I might as well give him a chance to improve through therapy. I told her, if I'm being abused, are you going to say the same things? He yelled again just one month ago, and cannot seem to "control" it around me, and I've put my foot down at least a dozen or more times about him yelling at me. This conversation really pissed me off. It's like scare tactics to keep me in a marriage. I told her more details, and she finally said, well if you're being abused, you shouldn't stay.

[Bill3]

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Thanks, Bill.

[Have Hope]

Copied from my other thread:

The reason I won't pursue couples therapy right now:

IF he says no, then I've presented issues to him that are bothering me in the marriage that then have ZERO resolution to them.

Then I am forced to carry on as normal, with all the issues hanging out in the open, and with ME carrying the weight of those issues.

He will definitely ask, why do you want to go to therapy, and I will have to answer him.

The agreement was IF he blows up at me again, then we will go. So I will have to have reasons IF I bring it up NOW.

And IF I say, I am NOT happy in this relationship, there are several big issues here at play, and I feel that only a counselor can help us through these issues, and then he says NO? What am I left with?

Then I am forced to undergo a separation process within the apartment LONG before I am even ready or prepared to leave him for good. OR, I am forced to actually LEAVE HIM LONG before I have the money to do so.

I just don't see a good outcome from asking for that right now.

[Have Hope]

I had more dreams of divorce. This is becoming very real to me.

I don't know how this is going to play itself out.

The majority of me wants to save the money I need over the next 8-10 months, then one day announce I am unhappy, I am leaving him, I am moving out and I am divorcing him.

Until then, I just want peace. I don't want any more fighting or any more shake ups. And IF he yells again between now and then? Then I have an open door to go to couples therapy.

The majority of me believes couples counseling won't accomplish a damned thing. He is SO defensive, he deflects all responsibility onto me, and he won't acknowledge his problems and issues.... I don't want to battle with all that -- it is SO toxic. Not to mention it's very demeaning that I have to defend myself against his false accusations. I just don't see couples counseling going well at all. In fact, I see it as being disastrous. And I see him trying to manipulate the therapist to believe HIS side, and NOT mine.

And once all that happens? Or even BEGINS to happen in a therapist's office? I will announce that I am divorcing him. And then I will not be ready financially to leave him.

This is probably also why I am resisting therapy myself. I am not up for the battle that I know would occur.

[Have Hope]

Here's my list of bad things about him:

1. He yells at me, rages at me periodically & uses abuse tactics on me when he's in a rage - I've set a limit
2. He's controlling of me -- he has held me down in bed when I want to get up, for example. He's controlling in other ways too.
3. The mean jokes that make me feel badly about myself or are MEANT TO - I've set a limit
4. He's a financial burden
5. Very little SEX. 1-2 times per month (??) We're working on this.
6. Poor Health: he's physically in very poor shape with numerous physical ailments and problems. I cannot do anything I love to do with him like kayaking, sailing, roller blading, hiking or skiing and those things have been a great passion of mine-- WILL HE HAVE TO BE ON DISABILITY AT SOME POINT, AND WILL I BE TAKING CARE OF AN INVALID? IF I leave him in TEN years, will he seek ALIMONY???????
7. Poor eating habits: He encourages me to eat fattening foods and hasn't respected my need to diet, lose weight and feel good about myself. He also encouraged me to smoke again. I've gained 15 pounds since being with him and started smoking again. He's been better about my food intake since I told him he was NOT being helpful for my diet.
8. He's lied or has omitted the full truth about something a few times to me, and now I have trouble trusting him.
9. He works on COMMISSION ONLY and will NOT progress in his career AT ALL. Which means I pay for EVERYTHING; more financial burden on ME.
10. He's a full blown weed addict and cannot live without it for even ONE DAY. Gets very moody without it.
11. He withdraws when he's moody, depressed, sick or angry and withholds affection and sex from me when he's disgruntled with me (I think he's punishing me by withholding sex and affection)
12. He calls women w-h-o-r-e-s at random in private and sometimes makes racist remarks to me in private
13. He does not like children AT ALL
14. He's not open to hearing my own music that I like. He only wants to listen to what he likes all the time.
15. He's a TOTAL SLOB and I have to pick up after him (He filled up our entire storage unit with HIS lifelong belongings)
16. He needs ego stroking
17. He can be self centered and selfish; he takes control of the TV, watches what HE wants to without asking me or thinking of ME; bought me a diamond ring that he likes, not thinking of what I would like personally. Once he TOLD me what food he was ordering for me when ordering in for dinner; he did not even ASK ME what I wanted.
18. I have doubts about whether he TRULY loves me FOR ME: AM I the one he really wants???? He told me his preference is women with DARK HAIR. I do NOT have dark hair, though he claims that to him, it is dark. It's dirty blonde. AND… this has made me extremely insecure as a result. I don't know if I can EVER get beyond it.
19. SPOILED BRAT - he has thrown tantrums when I have said "no" and when I've set limits around spending.
20. IF he is saying things to deliberately make me feel insecure, hurt me and cut down my self esteem, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN I STAY WITH HIM??

[divine1966]

He encourages you to smoke? You mean cigarettes or he wants you to be high with him? I am a former smoker myself (cigarettes) and I know it’s so very hard to quit. Why would someone encourage a dangerous, disease causing, habit??? What could possibly be an agenda? Or he doesn’t consider it unhealthy?

He holds you in bed by saying “oh baby stay in bed longer” or holds you down physically?