I let him back in and now I am kicking myself

All very true. And he has no clue. Although he does these things on purpose, so he does know what he’s doing. That’s how they can be so charming to the outside world and abuse behind closed doors. It’s deliberate.

Have Hope could the fun drive here be used to help?

idk for sure, just a idea, so you can afford to change the locks and pay your share of the legal fees

Nah, but thanks! I really don’t also see the need to change the locks. He will give me his key and I can’t imagine him trying to barge in uninvited like that. He’s too scared of the police and repercussions.

Judge would never bother with splitting kitchen ware. That just isn’t happening. It will never be in a court order. Courts don't split mundane belongings. Judge would laugh at it. Ordering alimony or putting house for sale yes . Cook ware? No.

Honestly if a man insists on going through forks and spoons and splitting them, I’d be so appalled I’d pack them up and put them on the porch and use paper plates until I am ready to buy new stuff. Most people refresh and replace most kitchen stuff every that often anyways. Heirlooms should go to whoever brought them. Spending more than 2 minutes on thinking about kitchen ware is absolute waste of life. And we actually cook and have quite a bit of stuff. Still wouldn’t even give it a thought.

Even the fact that he wants to spend time splitting kitchen ware is an indication of him just being a jerk. And if he’s so destitute he can’t afford new plates he needs a second job and to stop smoking pot and going to bars. He’s bizarre

He bought a nice set of cookware the last time we separated. We also have a nice set of cookware from the wedding, which was a gift. He just took what he bought. He also bought a very nice set of silverware, so he took that, and I keep my older silverware that was placed in our storage. That is all.

We had agreed that we each keep either what we brought into the relationship, or what we each bought. I don't see the problem? We're splitting things up, which is what happens when someone moves out and when you separate. He needs cookware in his new place, as do I. I have to buy a new set of plates and bowls since he bought the set in our apartment and is taking it. I have to buy that this weekend.

We're both fairly broke. I've mentioned before that we live in one of the most expensive cities in the US. Affording an apartment on your own is tough. I am choosing to live by myself because I cannot even fathom having a roommate at this point in my life, and I CAN afford my apartment and bills, and still save some money. I think he's paying even less rent than me, but yes, he does spend a lot of money on weed each month. I have been conditioned to think this is relatively OK for mental health reasons, but he smokes every single day, and it is an addiction for him, so there's that. It's not just for medicinal purposes. He's actually addicted.

He's almost done moving things - he comes back on Monday, and I believe that should be the last and final trip. There's a few miscellaneous items, then there's his 2 cats, and their cat toys.

I am concerned about splitting up the 3 cats. I worry that my own 1-year old kitten will be lost without the other two cats in the home. I will have to watch her and give her loads of extra lovings to make sure she is OK. I really don't want to get another cat, but I will if she is crying all the time. I have to play that one by ear.

I am far less concerned about the logistical details right now, and I am far more concerned with the emotional side of the divorce process with an abusive narcissist.

Yesterday, it was ALARMING to me that he would even THINK of getting back together with me, after I've basically kicked him out TWICE now and he's had to move all his belongings out TWO TIMES.

In the midst of him bawling to me, he said "even after all of this, I would want to be back with you again".

I am ASTOUNDED.

IF I had been the one to move out twice and if I had been broken up with THREE different times, then I would be saying "no way am I doing that again". I wouldn't want to consider it because it would be so obvious that the other person is ambivalent, at best, and has shown that they don't truly want me in their life.

But him? He still wants to come back to me?????? WTF????????

I posed the question in my narc abuse forum on facebook: "Why do they hold on SO tight, and WHY do they refuse to let you go?"

The answers I am getting are all: "CONTROL".

Rejection for a narcissist is a narcissistic injury. They cannot be the rejected one, I've read - they have to be the one in control of the relationship, and they have to be the one calling the shots. They decide when they're done with you, and they decide when the relationship ends. If it's the other way around, it's a MASSIVE injury to their most fragile ego and false sense of self.

I've read that rejection for a narcissist is unacceptable. They live in disbelief that THEY can be rejected. They're SO full of themselves, how could anyone reject them?

So, this is why they hold on SO tight - for CONTROL over you and for CONTROL over the relationship ending.

There is a word for that on again, off again behavior: "crazy-making" behavior.....that is in the book I mentioned. you shouldn't be surprised at anything he says......of course he wants to get back with you.....without you, he has no one to abuse........He is losing his verbal punching bag.

All very true!!!

And WOW - is he BRAZEN.

He just showed up at my apartment, at 7:30 AM, when I have to shower and get ready for work. He showed up without any prior warning and without an invitation. The way we left it yesterday, he was to come back here on Monday to get the rest of his things & the cats, after the funeral.

Then I get a text from him this morning telling me he is outside and wants to come in to pack up more things. I said NO.

What a piece of work! What the hell is that????? More controlling behavior?
throws me
He shows NO respect... he could have messaged me beforehand, ASKING if he could stop in this morning. But NO, instead, he just shows up, all entitled to doing so, and showing absolutely ZERO regard for my personal space.

Just WOW. I know I should not be surprised, but his behavior constantly throws me for a loop.

Your right, he's trying to control the situation again

He will be making it sound like your the bad guy again, the sooner he is out of your life the better

Of course he would want to get back together - pretty cushy life for him. Someone to take care of him, to satisfy his needs, he always comes first, he gets away with his emotional game-playing. Why would he reject all of these to be all alone with nobody to cater to him.

@rive, your response is very triggering. You make it seem as though I am some sort of DOORMAT. I am NOT a doormat. Thank you.

This is not what I am suggesting.

I am stating, as I have *all along*, that he is manipulative and preying on others to his advantage. Hence the word "emotional game-playing" that I referenced in my previous post, which HE engages in.

You said he gets away with his emotional game playing though - I call him out on his crap every single time. So, he does NOT get away with ANYTHING with me. Quite the opposite - I call him on his disrespectful comments, on his manipulations, his projections, his blame, and each and every time he falsely accuses me. I called him out this morning for showing up at my apartment without asking me first. I told him that shows no respect and is total disregard for MY SPACE.

Perhaps it's the way I interpreted your post, but it came across to me as though I am some kind of doormat who has allowed him to walk all over me, when I haven’t. I stand up for myself and I fight back - with every instance of disrespect.

You are far braver than I was. This is the exact reason I changed every door lock. I was terrified after the first time he would show up unannounced and surprise me again. Getting a key back doesn't mean he will give you all the keys back.

I hope you stay safe. I hope you protect your emotional health and mental well-being.

I am just trying to avoid spending money I really do not have. And, I am hoping that these kinds of incidents will not be reoccurring.

I am safe right now. And, I am definitely doing everything in my power to protect my emotional well being.

Narcissists never realize what their behavior does to others. They only realize that they themselves aren't getting the attention/ego boost/power fix they used to get. It is all about control. Everything still under his control (lawyer, house key, stuff in the attic, etc) will be used to his benefit. I know its harsh and feels bad, but you need to stop being nice and understanding. Those are like a back door he will exploit to wear you out.

I was not implying anything about you. I was referring to words you had written yourself in post #314 about how he got away with having his own way.

You expressed surprise as to why he would want to stay together. THESE (cf. post #314) are the reasons he would want to stay because HE BELIEVES he can get his own way.

Anyway, I will bow out of this thread now.

i think its as likely that they don't give a flying fart what their behaviour does to other people

if they do keep occuring, maybe start phoning the police and say he's trespassing? after all his stuff is out?

I know - I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place though. He just lost his mother. It's very difficult for me to be harsh or cruel or cold or indifferent. If I were that way, I wouldn't be a human - I'd be inhumane. I am trying to show some amount of compassion for his loss, while also being firm with my boundaries. It's a tough tight rope to be walking along.

Well, I respectfully disagree. You fail to understand the true dynamic that goes on between the abuser and the victim of abuse. The victim ends up appeasing the abuser more often than they would like in order to keep the peace and avoid a blowout. It's like walking through a minefield not knowing if and when you may step on a landmine. So you do everything that you can to avoid their wrath. Which means compromising your own boundaries, values and sense of self. It is something that cannot be helped and is not the victim's fault. It's the sheer dyanamic of it all, created by the abuser. The abuser instills fear in their victim through intimidation tactics. By exploding over nothing, it creates an atmosphere of uncertainty, instability and fear. Which is the abuser's goal.

He forced me to pay constant attention to him through certain manipulative tactics. He forced me to cater to him in order to avoid his wrath or a landmine. If I wanted peace, I had to bend to his wishes more often than not.

It's a dynamic of power and control over the victim through fear tactics that the abuser creates.

Typically, I have felt very supported by you, but I think there is a communication disconnect here.

this ^

i speak from experience, abusers just want the abusee (if thats a word) to follow everything they decide they want, turning the abusee (the one being abused) into a people pleaser.

Due to three people from my past, I think thats why I fall over myself to please others, even when it's bad for my mental health to do so

I understand. And yes, that’s what happens in the abusive dynamic.

Just saying:

Abusers are a bunch of mouldy old farts - the really gassy ones that make everyone get the nose pegs out and open all the windows

< that's everyone fleeing from the mouldy fart