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  #226  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 10:30 AM
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This is because you are allowing yourself to see the truth verses the illusion you clung to. Yes, your wife lies and twists things around to make herself look like the victim.

People have been trying to help you see the reality, your own children especially your oldest has been trying to reach you.

Your wife is manipulating in an effort to take everything she can from you. She is a twisted alcoholic. That’s why it was important to know your rights.

It’s hard to face the truth because it can be so twisted. I had to go through this myself with my older sister. Things she did were awful and not anything I myself would even think of doing. My sisters children say “my mother lies”.

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  #227  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 10:44 AM
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This is especially hard for your children. That’s why you have to keep your head about you even though at times it’s so hard. Often the hardest lessons are learned from ones own family.
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sadmanagain
  #228  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 11:26 AM
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Do you feel like you will be believed? Or do you feel like her side of the story will be given credibility?

At least you have your kids to back you up.
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sadmanagain
  #229  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 12:50 PM
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I won't be saying too much, so being believed isn't a concern.

There are people who won't. She has a cohort of dingbats around her who will spew nonsense.

I'm a good person. I'm realizing, I'm as solid as a rock.

At some points the kids may have to speak to a lawyer. It will be pretty hard to see things any way other than how the kids will say it. We're pretty uniform in what we are saying we saw and experienced.

I am struggling to control my anger at her jabs. I'm so defensive.
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sadmanagain
  #230  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 12:53 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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What is the deal with this type of person?

I have said, it's like living with an extreme version of Simon Cowell. You rarely, rarely get approval, but it is THAT approval you seek more than anyone else's.
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  #231  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 01:34 PM
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Your anger is pretty normal. Why shouldn't you feel angry? It's very justified, but you know she'll use it against you if she sees it, just like everything else. The outlet you want for your anger, you can't have...

I think the seeking approval from people like them falls into trauma bonding and intermittent reenforcement. When the approval is only ocassional, we seek it even harder. May have mentioned this here before, but intermittent reenfocement in a trauma bond has a similar effect on the brain receptors as cocaine. When you think about it like that, the compulsion to get their approval might make a lot of sense
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  #232  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 02:07 PM
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Yes, I have said I am addicted to her.

She gave me a couple of profound compliments years ago and years apart, and I am still living off those some days.
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sadmanagain
  #233  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 02:26 PM
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Yes, this kind of person is very disordered. And these other women give her permission to embrace her identity of being “the victim”. Her curse will be that she believes her own lies and she will descend into madness. She is her own worst enemy.

That is why you must disconnect with her. That is hard for you because you love her and you don’t want to hurt, you are not that kind of person.

Yes, there is often a push pull game and jabs and it’s important you don’t play as there is no good intentions behind her mask, just thinking she is entitled when she is not.
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  #234  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 02:31 PM
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It would not matter how well you did or do, she will always move the gold posts.

It’s time to wake up because your blind pursuit will hurt your children and they don’t deserve it.
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Bill3
  #235  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 05:56 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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Open Eyes, earlier today someone said the same thing to me.

I can't begin to explain the victim mentality. It's surreal. She was angry for years that my brother didn't treat her like family, because he never phoned while she was sick. I said, yes, he did. 2-3x a week. He offered a ton of support and ideas. No, not good enough, because he only phoned me, and never phoned her.

I was like..... ?????

Huh????

Of course he's phoning me. I don't phone your sister to see how she's doing.

Not the same. My wife's supposed to be family, and my brother didn't treat her like family. So, she was righteously wronged.
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sadmanagain
  #236  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 06:31 PM
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Not every family is the same. Some feel it’s more respectful not to bother someone when they are sick but check in with spouse as you describe.
  #237  
Old Apr 26, 2023, 06:41 PM
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I still would like you to watch Healing ADHD - see the seven types with Dr Daniel Amen.
  #238  
Old Apr 27, 2023, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
It would not matter how well you did or do, she will always move the gold posts.

It’s time to wake up because your blind pursuit will hurt your children and they don’t deserve it.
This right here ^^^^^
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  #239  
Old Apr 27, 2023, 09:04 AM
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Intermittent reinforcement is the hardest to break free of. Keep on hanging in there!
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Fuzzybear, Open Eyes
  #240  
Old Apr 27, 2023, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Neither of these women have any kind of a daily schedule, so my wife would be on Facetime or other apps with them at all hours of the day and night, along with seeing them in person most days of the week.
There are disordered individuals that develop an identity of being “the victim”. They actually get a high off of the attention they get and it’s not unusual for them to get together online to attract attention. Yes, they even begin to lie in order to maintain the drama and the attention they get. It’s not unusual there is also an alcohol addiction.

Often these individuals did not get attention when they were children and may have lost being the center of attention to a younger sibling/siblings. So they grow up looking for the attention they lacked as a child. Often they develop an addiction to alcohol and begin hanging out looking for attention and validation. They go from one failed relationship after another and often have the same problem with jobs. They often oversell themselves and then cannot do the job they oversold themselves for. Again they are the victim in both the failed relationships and different jobs. They just keep drinking and repeating the same dysfunctional cycles. They live in denial and they don’t mature.

Keep in mind, narcissists are individuals always looking for an identity and need constant validation. They thrive on dysfunction always looking looking for attention and validation. They tend to have addiction problems.
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Bill3
  #241  
Old Apr 27, 2023, 12:42 PM
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So far you are gaining ground in slowly recognizing your self worth. Yet, from time to time you will have those down days because you are realizing that you placed value in a person that never deserved it. You are only human, and not the first to make this kind of mistake.

Yes as your thread title states, it is a kind of grieving and trying to move forward
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  #242  
Old Apr 28, 2023, 10:30 AM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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It's not down days because she never deserved my effort. Early on, we were far more of a team and accomplished a lot together.

Someone told me about how with a covert narcissist, the "mask will slip". Someone on this forum told me, when someone shows you who they are believe them.

Looking back, there were different periods of "WTF just happened?" And then things would go back to normal.

Over years the WTF moments became closer and more frequent, and the good moments became more rare.

When I interact with her it's almost like I have a startle response. I think it is from years of being on edge and having to defend myself often.

I also go through periods of questioning my reality regularly, because I really ignored and smoothed out a lot of erratic behavior and thinking for a long, long time.
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  #243  
Old Apr 28, 2023, 02:43 PM
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I think the trend has been to label people with NPD and decide abuse is taking place when it’s more complex and not so back and white.

I think individuals with ADHD get labeled as bad narcissists when while some behaviors can be narcissistic, it more complex and many behaviors are due to how their brain is wired.

I think your wife’s struggles and behaviors may be due to a combination of her ADD and how she is abusing alcohol along with a group of toxic friends that are encouraging her to see you as a bad person and the solution is divorce and get money they tell her she is entitled to and live a new life.

Mixing alcohol with the ADD wired brain can result in exhibiting different mood swings that can at times be very cold and angry and confused states making the already challenging ADD worse.

Remember, alcoholism has many narcissistic behavior patterns to it. And Both alcoholism and ADD have problems with time and memory.

It’s important to keep in mind that ADD/ADHD is hereditary. Knowing behavior patterns and challenges if a person/child that may have ADD anxiety etc, is important as individuals can be taught how to better manage their challenged areas so they can function better and understand themselves better. You want to prevent self medicating as that just adds more dysfunction.

People who self medicate with alcohol when they have ptsd, ADHD or bipolar or other disorders only make their challenge worse.
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sadmanagain
  #244  
Old Apr 28, 2023, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
It's not down days because she never deserved my effort. Early on, we were far more of a team and accomplished a lot together.

Someone told me about how with a covert narcissist, the "mask will slip". Someone on this forum told me, when someone shows you who they are believe them.

Looking back, there were different periods of "WTF just happened?" And then things would go back to normal.

Over years the WTF moments became closer and more frequent, and the good moments became more rare.

When I interact with her it's almost like I have a startle response. I think it is from years of being on edge and having to defend myself often.

I also go through periods of questioning my reality regularly, because I really ignored and smoothed out a lot of erratic behavior and thinking for a long, long time.
We're not supposed to attempt to diagnose on here. That being said, if you see NPD traits in your ex, in addition to BPD, wow, what a combo.... toxic, toxic, toxic, toxic.

You became conditioned to accepting her behavior, despite your WTF moments. I became conditioned to accept my ex's own abusive behaviors, because he tried to normalize them. I have determined that my ex is most definitely NDP, without a shadow of a doubt.

That's just normal fighting between couples, he would say, and everyone fights like that. NO. Not knock down, drag out fights that involve insults, gaslighting, yelling and demeaning, intimidating comments and behaviors. NO. And NOT fights that last for hours on end. And NOT fights that are instigated simply over an innocent seeming question!!!

Once you learn more about what is actually HEALTHY between two people in a relationship, you will more clearly see the stark contrast between that and what you had.
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Last edited by Have Hope; Apr 28, 2023 at 04:13 PM.
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  #245  
Old Apr 28, 2023, 05:29 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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I understand about not wanting to diagnose anyone. I still haven't looked at the ADD ADHD stuff that was suggested.

I'll say, this very closely matches my life.



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  #246  
Old Apr 28, 2023, 06:03 PM
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What is described above is a partner that doesn’t want their spouse to have any power. Divorce is threatened many times as a way to maintain control and keep a partner under control.

IMHO once that dynamic takes place let them go.

I can see how if a woman never had a healthy close relationship with her father she would insist on control and never have a healthy relationship.

Similarly if a man experienced an unhealthy narcissistic mother he may very likely take that out on his wife. (Something you should talk about with your sons)

Last edited by Open Eyes; Apr 28, 2023 at 06:30 PM.
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ArmorPlate108
  #247  
Old Apr 28, 2023, 07:38 PM
RDMercer RDMercer is offline
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The threats of divorce came from two directions.

1. She hates herself and we'd be better without her. I felt vulnerability in those times, I felt she was in pain.

2. I've done something and deserve it.
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  #248  
Old Apr 29, 2023, 03:49 PM
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People who abuse alcohol ARE gaslighters.

Hanging out in bars/clubs and engaging in drinking and looking for “supply”is not healthy. Often it leads to experiencing many failed relationships and gaslighting themselves into believing they are the victim. Their life revolves around their addiction to alcohol. Yet, they think it’s ok to accuse others for having the problem. They often continue to return to the snake pit club life finding creative ways to make it sound like that is not what they are doing. Again, gaslighting.

From what you share, this is the direction your wife and her new drinking buddies are heading just gaslighting themselves into thinking it’s life changing in a positive way.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Apr 29, 2023 at 06:36 PM.
  #249  
Old Apr 29, 2023, 08:23 PM
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I am just questioning how advertising yourself on Facebook and hanging out at bars/clubs consuming alcohol is going to lead to something actually productive other then becoming a pick up for someone who is looking for a quick ego fix.
  #250  
Old Apr 30, 2023, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
The threats of divorce came from two directions.

1. She hates herself and we'd be better without her. I felt vulnerability in those times, I felt she was in pain.

2. I've done something and deserve it.
If you think about it further, both those on your list are ways she emotionally manipulates you. She does this with her children too. No matter what you and your children did, it was never enough. That is why you and your children suddenly felt unsafe when your wife just showed up.

When you are in a relationship with a self involved person you end up feeling like nothing you do is good enough. The environment is always about them and their needs being met. They are the constant cry baby that everyone has to tip toe around.

The only way to change this is indifference. If you were trained to be codependent, you feel this is cruel. It’s not cruel, it’s is allowing yourself to have boundaries.
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