Dating After Abuse and Dealing With Life Changes

Thank you both....

Una, you're right. I earned it at this point, after the hell he put me through. I also do not care what his own brother thinks of me. He is going to taint my image anyways and will paint me evil, and him the angel and victim, as all narcs do.

I have him blocked everywhere now, including my email.

His brother lives out of state and you likely don’t know him that well. His family isn’t part of your circle. How often do you two talk or see each other? Bet you never. He thinks you are conning him. And? Why his opinions matter? Your ex is talking about his brother too much. I love my brother dearly but I don’t inform anyone of what my brother thinks of them. Weirdo

Taint your image? Where? Why is it important?

And if your ex talking poorly about you, it doesn’t matter. Most people don’t care to be part of divorcing couple drama. No one cares

100% - no one cares and no one cares to hear about the negative drama. As it is, we have a friend in our music circle who is dying of cancer as we speak. She is in her final days - all people from our circle care about HER and what she's going through right now.

I just felt kind of guilty for even having the 17K, because he tried to guilt trip me and take it back...

And I know I shouldn't feel guilty. This is in lieu of alimony, in my mind.

I think it's natural to second-guess yourself, but that doesn't mean it's justified or deserved. But traumatic events can linger in your head. Also, I think we can all be sensitive to what people think of us - even people who don't know us well. Stoicism warns of this - we know and love ourselves better than anyone, yet we value their opinions above our own.

I just keep reminding myself the past is past. I dreamed of the past last night and it put me in a melancholy mood - I hate that. But now day is here I'm reminding myself the past no longer exists.

17K is nothing to someone who has 180K. Why feel guilty? It's not like he worked hard to earn that money. It fell in his lap.

Wave a magic wand: Guilt no more. There's no point to guilt anyway as what's done is done.

He used and abused you including stealing and demanding your money. So no need to feel guilty. Not like he was a provider or anything

Thank you.

I will let the guilt go - I'm viewing this as in lieu of alimony.

And yes, the trauma of his bullying the other day has lingered. Today, I have had to take the whole day off as a "mental health day" for myself.

Whatever his brother thinks, I really don't care. His brother is explosive like my husband is/was, so there's that too.

so true!!!

Jay is back from his Caribbean trip. We’re supposed to see each other this weekend. I’m a little nervous but excited.. nervous because it’s been a couple weeks since we’ve seen each other and I hope we haven’t lost anything. I don’t think so, but at times there’s been infrequent communication. We shall see!!

This morning at 4 AM, I'm reading through my narc abuse support groups on Facebook, and on my feed, I found this written by one narc abuse survivor:

"So now, he is gone and I live in peace in my messy house with my happy children..... There will NEVER be a chance for peace or a polite "amicable" relationship between us.... The fact is...in reality...any contact I have with him is DANGEROUS and harmful and I will never be where he is...not ever again."

Through my trauma bonded state, I was trying to end things more amicably with my ex. And you just can't with a narc. It ends badly, with you having to block them, kick them out for good, and exchange harsh words. It is not a pretty ending and rarely, if ever, is with an abusive narc.

All stories I read and hear talk about this kind of ending... either that. or the victim is so trauma bonded that they cannot let go and it has a non-linear ending with reunions, more break ups, and phases of getting back together again, with the ultimate ending of the narc coldly discarding the victim for new supply, and the victim utterly destroyed.

My mom told me yesterday when I visited that my ex was trying to "destroy" me. And this is the harsh truth. During this last round, his threats to take me to court to take away the 17K he had already given me? He was kicking me when I'm already down... frightening me and scaring me that I would next, have to deal with a lawsuit and court, while I'm already down and unemployed, struggling. He very well knows of my struggles.

There is a song, called "Poison and Wine" and it reminds me of the abusive relationship dynamic and the duality of the trauma bond:

Ooh, I don't love you, but I always will
Ooh, I don't love you, but I always will
I don't love you, but I always will
I always will
I wish you'd hold me when I turn my back
The less I give the more I get back
Ooh, your hands can heal, your hands can bruise
I don't have a choice, but I still choose you

"Your hands can heal, your hands can bruise" precisely describes the dichotomy of the abuser's character, as they alternate between being loving and being cruel, at their whim.

The times I weakened and reached out to my ex for comfort and support? I wanted the healing hands he offered, and not the cruelty. But with the abuser, you get both, and that's what so confusing and conflicting for the victim to experience.

Another song, "Either Way" also describes the abusive personality:

You were almost kind, you were almost true
Don't let me see that other side of you
You have learned in time that you must be cruel
I'll have to wait to get the best of you
Poison in everything you said
Don't you, don't you
Wonder what difference does it make
Either way?
You were almost kind, you were almost true
Why give away that other side of you?
Happens every time, so it must be true
Step on a kid, he'll grow up hating you

I told my mother that I felt like my emotions were at the end of a yo-yo, with him pulling the string. He would yank me in one direction, and my emotions would follow. He would yank me in another direction, and my emotions would follow. He was the puppeteer, and I, sadly, was the puppet, just as he wants it to be.

There is no nice ending with an abuser or an abusive narcissist. There just isn't. Because at the end of the day, when you've truly had ENOUGH of their abusive crap, and when you finally stand your ground and stand up for your rights to human decency and respect, you realize and know that there IS none with the abusive personality.

And that's the reality. I am in tears as I wrote this, as I think through ALL the abuse I've endured, while being under his thumb and while being his puppet.

YES, this is all still too fresh for me given our recent communications, I am still processing and I am still healing.

@Samicat,

I found this regarding the Stoic viewpoint on what others' think of us. Thank you for bringing this up! I like and prefer this perspective:

Why do you care what other people think?
“I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinion of himself than on the opinion of others.”

– Marcus Aurelius

“How much time he gains who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks, but only at what he does himself, to make it just and holy.”

– Marcus Aurelius

Marcus Aurelius warned us worrying about the opinion of others is a waste of time. But, if we live with other people and are social animals, shouldn’t we worry about what others think?

No, because what others think doesn’t change the intrinsic value of who or what is being judged. It’s just a thought in their mind. That is all.

While this is an easy concept to grasp, it is a hard thing to implement. From the day we’re born we seek the approval of other. Our parents and family at home. Our teachers at school. Our friends and co-workers. We all want to be liked.

But does someone’s opinion of us change our intrinsic value? Does someone else’s thoughts make us a better or worse person? No, it doesn’t. What other people think doesn’t have any bearing on whether you are a good or bad person. Whether you have value or not.

So what happens if we stop worrying about what other people think?

We save ourselves a lot of stress. We focus on how well we’re are doing in our personal growth. We stop worrying about what other people are doing with their lives. We stop focusing on the faults of others. We don’t worry about who others think we should be. We focus on becoming the person we want to be.

Source: 169 - Why Do You Care What Others Think?

Rarely are any endings nice endings. Once it becomes a divorce it’s rarely amicable. It doesn’t have to be an ugly war. Even if the other person behaves aggressively, you can stay calm but firm. You don’t have to get into the mud with them.

He won’t be the first husband to go around telling people his ex was crazy, lol. Don’t worry about what he thinks of you or says about you. People take it with a grain of salt, don’t care, and judge you as they know you to be.

I sent him a scathing final email, telling him off, confronting him on ALL the abuse I've experienced, confronting him on his lies regarding the inheritance, and the bullying I experienced the other day. Unequivocally, I told him to never contact me again, to not approach me when we run into each other, and to not pursue me ever again. He didn't reply, so that's the end of it ALL. FINALLY.

And, our mutual circle of friends all know me fairly well at this point. They all know I am not abusive, or toxic... they won't give into his negativity, if he tries to spread it.

I celebrated today and bought myself some super cute cowgirl boots and a sparkly pink club shirt for going out dancing. It felt good to treat myself!

So, I went out last night to see a band. I met two guys, who seemed really nice & friendly, so we talked for a long while. I told them about my workshop in May. We were having a nice, lighthearted, fun and very positive conversation.

Then, from there, it all went downhill.

Later in the night, I ended up talking with just one of them outside.

He was telling me how his best friend, the other guy, has a soon to be ex wife who called the cops on him and as a result, he cannot come close to her now. I assume there's a restraining order involved.

They're going through a divorce, and she is accusing him of abuse. So, this guy I'm speaking with wanted to defend his best friend (naturally), so he said she is diagnosed with mental illness and psychosis, and that she was drinking a lot, denying the abuse allegations and telling me that she's the issue.

So, my response to this guy was that abuse ALWAYS happens behind closed doors, no one on the outside EVER knows about it, and the abuser puts on a HUGE act to the world of being a "good guy". I became fairly impassioned, arguing the viewpoint that he COULD be abusive, yet his best friend may not be aware of it.

After several minutes of exchanges about this topic, I had to walk away and remove myself because it hit too close to home for me: the abuser making it seem to everyone else like SHE is the problem, NOT HIM, and it's because SHE is crazy that these accusations are being made.

And this is what makes me SO angry about abuse. It ONLY happens behind closed doors and out of the public eye, the abuser ALWAYS deflects responsibility and accuses the victim of abuse, and the abuser's flying monkeys or friends ALL believe the abuser because he is such a "good person".

This harsh and stark reality makes me crazy.

Naturally, this guy didn't appreciate my perspective very much, but he remained cordial and kind towards me, So, I ended up telling him that I wasn't saying his friend IS abusive, because I do not know. I simply reiterated that often times with these kinds of allegations, what appears one way, can be very different in reality and I gave the perspective of the victim. He barely said goodbye to me when it was time to leave and clearly wanted little to do with me after this conversation/argument.

I woke up feeling pretty low because of this incident.

Not only does the victim of abuse suffer immensely through the experience of the abuse, but then many people don't believe the truth, and she has no leg to stand on, no voice, and no power because she has all sorts of "problems". And the abuser skips away, unscathed, with reputation in tact, looking for the next victim.

In the meantime, the poor victim has developed all sorts of additional issues, such as depression and PTSD, and is completely traumatized, with low self esteem and self worth as a result of the abuse.

I think abusers on purpose choose victims with mental health issues so that they can do just this: DEFLECT ALL RESPONSIBILITY and accuse their victims of being "unstable, crazy, and mentally ill".

So these are total strangers and one decides to disclose other person’s marital problems to you, total stranger. I talk to anyone about anything but I’d be taken aback. That’s quite weird. And highly inappropriate. Was he drunk?. Why is blabbing about his friend’s business?

Now you are feeling low. And you were upset he barely said good bye. Dude who thinks it’s appropriate to discuss his friend’s marital and law problems with strangers in the bar is not worth your time. Why worry about these people?.

It’s entirely possible his wife is abusive as you don’t know them. There are plenty of abusive women out there. It’s a stereotype that men are always abusers. You know nothing about these people. Why getting upset and defending his wife whom you don’t even know. It’s very possible she is the issue. Who really knows? Maybe she is abuser or maybe he is or maybe none of them are!

You seem to be meeting weirdos at these venues. You need a change of scenery. You go there to have fun but keep meeting questionable characters and then it ends up being upsetting almost every time.

You need positive things now. Not this negative nonsense from strangers. Read a good book, walk outside, exercise, watch a funny movie. Associate with positive people. You’d likely feel more uplifted volunteering in a retirement home playing bingo or serving food in a soup kitchen! Not listening to drunks blabbing about their messed up marriages.

There are weirdos everywhere you go, not just at music venues. I write about being upset on here, but honestly, it doesn't linger long and it's not something I am overly concerned with or absorbed by.

I had a great convo with these two, but this did go downhill. I don't know why he chose to reveal his best friend's problems, especially this kind of an issue. The ex of his friend was also present at the music venue, and it became an issue for them. I think that's why they shared this with me.

Well I don’t know, it’s just very strange that people discuss their friend’s marriages as soon as friends step out. It’s rude. It’s not a common behavior. I’d be upset if my friends talked about my marriage when I stepped out. I just think it’s not worth to get into their drama because you don’t know them well or at all. I think it probably comes with the territory-type of venue, but they must be intoxicated to be blabbing like this. I don’t know. I associate with all kind of people and am not trying to be a snob, but every guy you run into at these venues sound like really bad news from your descriptions.

If you aren’t upset, it’s all good then. The last thing you need is being upset about these random dudes. I’ll refrain from going on and on about you needing women friends. Lol But I still think that

Not every guy is, but many....

Speaking of new girlfriends! I ran into a female acquaintance last night, and she wants to get together 1:1. So, I am trying to nurture new friendships with women, it just takes time.

It sounds like guy #2 who you were talking to didn't validate you as the victim of the abuse you recieved. Most people out and about in the real world aren't able to do that. Self validation techniques may help you feel better.
You know a small part of guy #1's personal story from someone who talked about him who was supposed to be his best friend. He may or may not be an abuser and his soon to be ex may or may not be too. You don't know either of them or the best friend who was talking about them. There are better people out there.
It's noble of you to try to explain how abuse 'functions' by being hidden and deceptive. Abuse thrives in those conditions. I understand the anger you have and drive to explain it. Abuse effects linger long after the abuser is gone. I hope you find a way to move forward. You deserve to live without anger. You deserve to live free from abuse and it's lingering effects.

Definitely. It’s not easy. But it’s a good start!!!!!

My heart goes out to you. It will get easier.

It's so very hard to explain to someone that you were abused when your abuser seems like a nice, reasonable person. My mother was a totally different being when she was abusive to us. Her face would swell and get red. She spoke in a different voice. I'm sure her students or anyone who knew her would be so shocked to have seen her like that.

And it's very hard to describe certain kinds of abuse. I've written about my mother's abuse and even then, it doesn't always come across. The Arctic blast of a narcissist's rage that's like running into a wall of ice.




What anyone else thinks doesn't matter. You were there and you know what happened. I would maybe just slip away when the topic of marital discord comes up.

Thank you!

All sooo true. It is hard to describe. He would get me so confused by all his tactics to throw me off balance, put me on the defensive, and deflect all responsibility onto me, that it became difficult to identify.. I knew he was attacking me, but he would confuse me too.

I leaked out to a mutual friend that he had been abusive. The people I am becoming closer friends with, I have confided in.

But yes, to your point, I know the truth and that’s all that really matters.

Thank you, dear. It was drama I didn’t need that’s for sure. I was so triggered by it in the moment. And I know I am still sensitive to anything having to do with abuse.

I did have a very nice weekend with Jay, my new guy. We can talk about these things very openly and easily. So I can talk about my ex and so does he. It may be healing for both of us.

So, Jay spent last night with me and this morning. We had a very nice time, however, I did take him by surprise at one point. I asked him point blank, so did you hook up with any women while you were gone? The question was on my mind a bit since on his trip, he told me they were meeting all sorts of people, hanging out with all sorts of people, and then they went to dinner with some that they met. So, they were socializing, and we haven't come out and said we're in a "relationship" or that we are "exclusive". He seemed a bit taken aback by my question, answered it by saying no, not at all, and described how there were mainly locals and men that they hung out with. So, I felt better, but then I felt kind of bad for even asking, He had told me before they left that he wasn't going to be "babe shopping" on his trip, but let's face it, anything can happen and it can happen spontaneously and if he's meeting people, then I thought it was a natural question to pose.

This morning I asked him if he was offended by my question, and he said no, it takes a lot to offend him, but admitted that he was thrown off guard by it. Oops. I am used to men being dirt bags, I guess. Maybe I'm projecting too much?

I am not sure how anything could spontaneously happen with adults? Like spontaneously hooking up with strangers? By this logic you can never trust anyone if you think they could spontaneously hook up. It’s not a normal behavior at all. Like no self control at all? I’ve met women who think that men are just like dogs and have no self control. It’s just not the case

I think if you want exclusive relationship, you need to discuss it. If you don’t want to discuss it yet, then I think there’s no point to ask such things. I do girl group travel few times a year and also travel to see family. I’d be very offended if I was asked if I hooked up with men on my travels (even if I wasn’t married). It’s like do I strike them as the type to go sleep with total strangers on vacation? And do they think I am a liar if I already told them I have no intentions to hook up yet they ask again if I did?

I don’t think it’s a natural or normal question at all. And it certainly could be offensive. But I could see where it’s coming from so it’s ok to explain that you keep meeting men with loose morals and no common decency so you have hard time imagining that men might just travel and not hook up with women. Such projection is not uncommon and is understandable. Decent man won’t hold it against you and will understand where you are coming from