What to do when they come back?

Projection is an interesting topic & why do some people project & others don't. I find I don't project because I look at people (including my parents & my ex) for their behaviors that actually were, not for what I wished they were & my level of tolerance has never been good even as a kid. I always saw people for who & what they were including my now ex before the wedding & wanted to cancel it. My mom on the other have projected him to be good....maybe because she thought he "would be" or had the "capability of being" something my dad wasn't even though in reality that I saw, he was just as bad if not worse in ways than my dad.

We need to know what it is in our thinking that causes us to "project" rather than look at people realistically for who & what they are. Is it "wishful thinking", is it not believing that anyone could be like that? We can't address our projection issues without knowing what causes it in our thinking in the first place....that is probably a big therapy topic in itself

I wanted to share more of the conversation I had with my daughter. I swear all of this is what she said.

My daughter talked about how calm things were now and how easy things were. I said, “Yeah. You know, I see a lot of people struggling with costs of everything, and costs of going through school or training all the time in my work. We have quite a bit of stability. I don’t understand why she’d give up this stability for the instability she has now.”

And she said…. “I don’t think she misses this at all. I think she’s happier partying and whatever than being here. She doesn't have instability. She has money.”

“I don’t know that she does. I can’t picture things being stable.”

She got angry and said, “I know she has money. If she didn’t, she’d be back. You said court was delayed because she got a new lawyer. That was probably really expensive. Her car is expensive. So, she’s got money to spend to take more from us. If she was out of money she wouldn’t have a lawyer, and she’d be back, because she knows she can play you and you’d give her money. Seriously Dad she always knew she could wrap you around her finger. If she came back saying she was starving and had nothing, you’d look after her. You’ll know when she’s out of money when she shows up at the house crying with nowhere to go. In the mean time she’s got the money she took from us, took from her mom, and probably the money from whatever man she's sold herself to.”

So.... Yeah. I've been floored by that conversation.


RDM

Whether DD's right or wrong, her way of looking at the situation seems like it has a healthy dose of rational detachment involved. DD isn't giving passes, and she's calling it as she sees it and as it affects her. It's a great place to start healthy boundaries.

Please don't be rough on yourself if you still have a soft spot where she's concerned. This was someone you loved and took care of for many years- old habits die hard, but they will die eventually.

OMG... That kid always catches me off guard.

She is an amazing mix of being a little girl, and emotionally mature.

What a good way to view that... Emotional detachment..... That's exactly what that is.

I'm posting this on here because I'm so floored by it all but also don't want to tell anyone close to us that she said these things. I'm just sorting it in my mind.

RDM

@RDMercer just checking in on you to see how you are doing.

Things are good.

My mom had a health setback but my brother and sister in law have been fantastic with support.

For all the things with him that drove me crazy, Dad loves mom very much. He’s been incredibly supportive and good to her, and brother and SIL have been good to him.

My son and his GF are going there next weekend so poppa has some company, and to visit with granny.

Work is good.

I’ve got another employer making me an offer. Similar pay, better benefits and more autonomy, and tons of ways to advance. My current employer has warned that if I go they will only hold my position for me to come back to for 12 months.

I’ll be starting later this month.

Setback today. Just cleaning stuff out and finding old photos and cards and letters.

RDM

I think photos can be a bit of a challenge for you in that most of her power over you was due to your physical attraction towards her. The rest was an illusion you built up and believing that you could change the unhealthy things. Now you have slowly been seeing the reality through the heavy emotional fog you had been trapped in. There is a grieving process in finally accepting how what you thought existed just didn’t. Little by little you were able to describe what would have been a better partner for you and there is value in that when it comes to opening up towards finding a better partner for yourself.

You are growing through and past this life challenge. 👍🥰

I've said this a lot.

I was physically attracted to her, but the key thing with a covert narcissist is they mirror YOU until they resent you.

I'd love to have a family.

Me too.

I'd love to live in a small town near the water.

Me too.

I'd love to have a simple family home.

Me too.

I think education and supporting your kids with education is sooo important.

Me too.

Then they slowly begin to hate you... Then get over it... Then they hate you for longer... Then you are closer than ever.... Then things are fragile.... Etc etc etc for decades.

It's the slow loss of someone who at one time said and did everything to be your perfect match.

Anyway. Moving on.

RDM

It sounds like going through momentos may be more about processing things emotionally at this point, and hopefully not much in the way of ruminating? If so, that's a good sign of healing.

You know, that sounds accurate.

No, there wasn’t much time spent on it. Or lost on it. I’m far more worried about my new job.

Processing years and years of memories is pretty hard. I haven’t spent much time this last time wondering what was real at the time and what wasn’t.

It happened. It went away. I went back to work.

Spent two evenings watching movies with my daughter and babysitting a big kitten.

All good

I think that is why I have avoided going through my storage room over the garage. The one load of things I did bring here had photos in it & even when I saw my ex on the FB page of my horse trainer there, I wanted to puke. I have no desire to go through those things & old photos from my mom's estate, I don't have a clue as to who anyone is.....so far I haven't wasted time on if. Maybe someday.

Much better, like you are doing.....focus on the NOW.

Just here to say a quick hello.

I think of you all often.

You have given me hope and reassurance.

Looking back... Wow.... It's over two years separated already.

I'm still loving the peace, especially at night, but it isn't surprising any more. The sense of peace, the profound quiet, used to create a longing in me. That's not there.

Work is good. I started a new job after being heavily recruited.... That was nice, and validating. It carries a lot more responsibility than my old role, and it is WAY more integrated between different departments and teams. Small pay increase, but the new salary progression goes 25% past my old ceiling.

I was on a MS Teams meeting with some of my new colleagues in different regions. We all talked about different ideas and shared some thoughts and directions.... But I was kinda like that meme....

"Don't tell me of the deep magic. I was there when it was written."
Do Not Cite the Deep Magic to Me, Witch | Know Your Meme

I was filling in the gaps... Filling in the history... filling in things that had been tried before.... Filling in WHY things had been done like that in the past..... Then one of my new team started pointing at his laptop and said, "YOU'RE THE GUY! YOU'RE THE GUY THAT DID THIS ALL! YOU'RE THAT GUY! YOU'RE THE GUY THAT STARTED ALL THESE PRACTICES! ARE YOU KIDDING??? WE GOT THE GUY!"

So.... That was kind of cool.

I'm still terrified when I think about the future. My counselor says it is from spending soooo many years in my limbic brain. Never being able to plan, just reacting and trying to survive.

Way back, one of you said my wife was beating me my own guilt like a cudgel. Others said she was manipulating me with her illness, and pointed out their own health challenges and what they need and expect from their partner. Those things changed my perspective and helped me start to break loose from the manipulation.

Dr. Ramani talks about what a counselor wishes they could say.


My counselor has finally rounded the corner, now that I've accepted what is going on, and talks about the abuse I was subject to. I never considered all the missing money as financial abuse. I never considered the chronic loss of sleep and pushing me to exhaustion all the time was physical abuse. I never considered the sexual manipulation and things that happened between us during intimacy were a form of sexual abuse.

Manipulation of the kids continues to emerge.... She threatened my son with divorcing me, and that if he didn't go with her he'd never see his sister, from the time he was in elementary school. I just learned that in 2025.

You all helped me get out. Thank you.

RDMercer

When you are in a relationship with a toxic/disordered person that person manipulated you into thinking whatever is wrong is your fault. This is especially true when the person is an alcoholic/addict. This is not anything you can fix but they manipulate you into believing that you can and you were completely devoted to that mindset.

It was good that she moved out so you could slowly see the reality. I see you getting stronger and healthier. This is important so you see the red flags so you don’t end up repeating the same pattern with someone else. Toxic people tend to pick people that have self doubt. They manipulate that self doubt to take advantage and control.

@RDMercer stopping by to see how you are doing. How’s it going?

Things are good

The new job is a big step up in responsibility. The first month is a big change... I have my own dedicated admin support, this employer is big on professional development and having a learning and growth plan in place. In my old role I did a lot of informal training of new staff and supporting regional operations, while doing a LOT of boots in the dirt, on the front line meeting with clients on job sites.

This role will have me doing that about 10% of the time. The majority of the time will be training and supporting regional staff to do that themselves; building communication and training standards for the staff on my team. I'll be working with a budget about 10X anything I've been responsible for before.

So... Work is a challenge, but good. I've accepted it that I've had to let go of some of my part time side gigs to ensure I perform well in this role for my first year.

Family health is an issue. My mom is in hospital and moving into a nursing home soon. Thankfully my brother has been able to be a huge support to her and dad at this time. Me and the kids are going for the Easter weekend to see everyone.

I've become aware of tension that grows in me where I am expecting things to fall apart.... I think the pattern of just anticipating an outburst/drama/problem/fight/etc. is just engrained in me. The last two times it's welled up I've been able to recognize it's just me following a pattern and it's subsided.

I still go through periods of anxiety of being scared of the future, scared of her threats of everything she's going to take, scared of financial ruin. I'm becoming more rational with this.

My lawyer says, "Most likely we'll end up in court in the next three months. At which time we request discovery to find all the money she's taken, and have the value of all her material goods assessed, find out what her rent is and who's paying it, find out who is making her new car payments for her and so on. If she has means, she can support the kids. If she doesn't and someone else is supporting her, then you're off the hook. If she owes child support, the court WILL make her pay that before any other settlement is made. A lot of the time a disordered person will just.... Go away... Once they get news that the well is dry."

Did I tell you all that before she left me, she went out one night and I took photos of all her jewelry and designer purses?

Funny enough.... She didn't claim any of those things as assets. The same as she never told the court about her education and the positions of responsibility she'd held.

Anyway.

Things are OK. Lots of stress, but some very good people around me.

Sorry to hear about your Mom. Seeing our parents age is hard one has to be understanding and comforting.

I am glad to hear you are getting better at identifying anxiety patterns and finding ways to manage them. As I have mentioned, it’s good for you and your children that she moved out and they can feel safer in your home. Also when you have to deal with someone who abuses alcohol you end up living around their fluctuating moods and overall narcissistic behavior patterns that go along with alcohol abuse disorder. It’s a self serving disease that ruins relationships

It’s good that you have good peoples le around you. When you are with someone that is unhealthy and even toxic at times that person can slowly whittle away your personal sense of value and self respect. Having healthier people around you can heal your sense of self worth and self respect again.

❤️

Before we separated I told my stbx wife:

You are doing things that can't be undone.

Your kids need you. You need to stop all this and work on your attachment with them.

The things you are threatening aren't possible. Please, listen to me. Things won't work the way your friends are telling you.

You don't have a say about what I do if we aren't together. I'm not going to live beholden to you. I'll work and live where it works for me.

You can't rewrite our history. The things you are claiming just didn't happen. Please stop all of this.

Please go to counselling and listen to the kids. You are losing them. I don't have to take part if you don't want me to. Go with them, especially the oldest.

One of the women who loaded my stbx wife up with the idea of how wonderful the single life is, is a woman who lost her husband in 2020. I looked after her home maintenance, her yard, and snow removal for a year after her husband died. She showed her appreciation by day drinking with my wife and surfing Tinder with her.

Her sibling and mother haaaaate me too. I never did anything against them, but they've always hated me.

I am DYING to tell everyone off lately and do a, "See?? See?? I told you this is what would happen!"

I'm also dying to expose her to the people around her.


Y'all are going to tell me not to, and going to tell me 100 reasons why it's not a good idea, and talk me out of calling or emailing anyone.


Thank you!

RDMercer

(edited a line for clarity)

Au contraire, mon frère! We are your Greek chorus. When is rehearsal?

OMG!

@unaluna that is hilarious!!

I want to do one of these....

(Caution... Language )

Seriously, i like your "script." Its thoughtful, organized, and not pleading. You have it figured out for yourself, and thats who really counts. Like i didnt get a gold watch when i stopped working, but i KNOW what i did and thats what matters.

So...

I emailed my stbx wife two months ago. I was pretty ticked off at the time.

The kids had divulged stuff to me in family counselling about manipulative things she'd done to them, such as telling them over 10 years ago that she wanted to divorce me, that she was taking the youngest and if the oldest didn't do what she said he'd never see his younger sibling again.

So, I said in my email to her..... "The kids have divulged stuff in counselling that I never knew. The kids told me you threatened divorce to them since they were little and threatened to separate them if they didn't go with you. You were an abusive and neglectful spouse and partner."

Last night I get an email reply that says,

"You may way want to look at yourself and question your upbringing."

So... That is how much truth and reality reached her.

I think I have my answer as to what the outcome will be if I tell her, and everyone around her, off.

RDMercer

Toxic people will always look to blame others for their own short comings. Plus the fact that she expected your children to abandon you and threatened them was something a controlling narcissistic person does.

Also, denial and blame is very much the language of alcoholics and addicts.

It’s a waste of time getting angry and calling toxic people out. Once you show anger they win. Toxic people actually get dopamine from emotionally manipulating others. Remember you are not dealing with a healthy person.