Understanding=forgiveness?

Sorry!! It's been so many years--I forgot!! Or is that you can tell me but then you'd have to kill me? Anyway, you have time to think about it and that's good.

Caught her online earlier tonight and we are fighting over who gets the dog....so instead of ending our conversation on a bad note, i talked a lil mushy, mushy. We talkd about the relationship and stuff, and apparantly it really hurt her when i didnt immediately put her on my bank account when we wed. I told her that I wasnt comfortable with it at that time. So to see if she could manage money, i said she can take care of the phone internet cable bill using the money from her part time job. Well she quit and i had to take over payments. It wasn't that I couldnt afford it, but i wanted to see how she spent money and if she could save money. She of course didnt save a penny and tonight she claims that she spent the money on us...buying groceries and small stuff. I always told her to use my money (she wasnt on the account but i let her borrow the card).

Well after hearing that and other things i began to doubt my decision and i told her i was. It is like torture....my heart says forgive her and give her another shot, but my mind is saying - hence why i think my body went bonkers.
I asked her what she wanted and she said she wants to end this chapter of her life, start a new one where she gains her independance, and then starts a new chapter with me. In a way, it made me feel good but then it made me question my choice even more. She told me she was going to buy a townhome that had been foreclosed on in another county for $150K. I was like oh thats a good deal but i know you still cant afford that....who are you living there with when you buy it? she said not to worry about it...which of course makes the person you tell not to worry, worry! She finally came out and said it was our old married neighbor from NOVA (the one that knew she was cheating, came into my home for refuge from her psycho husband and kept **** from me!!) who hung up on me when I was having a panic attack here in Iraq!! She didnt tell me a name just that i dont like her. I was like ok is it a friend or family? She said friend...
So it will be interesting when/if i come and visit my ex wife and the old neighbor is there. How am I supposed to feel about that??? Just the thought of Ashleigh and Quincey (the old neighbor) living together makes me angry.
Forgot to add- Somehow she knows about the other girl. She says she isnt angry, but happy for me and is willing to be there as a friend to offer advice with my relationship with her.

Oh your mind has to be going in 504 different directions!! I know you need more support than this and I'm hoping someone else will jump in, but right now all I can give is a hug to you.

i am walking into this blind to what you are really talking about, but i do need to say that understanding does NOT equal forgiveness. it may make it easier to choose to forgive but it is not the same thing at all.

the way i explain forgiveness is like a legal issue. someone has wronged me. they broke faith with me and they are busted when i know they did it. forgiveness is a legal decision to set them free even though i am hurt by their action. forgiveness is choosing to let someone go when i have them dead to rights.

it is a choice - not a feeling. forgiveness does not mean that i have warm fuzzy feelings and let them back into my life with no limits or restrictions until trustworthiness is proven to me and trust is restored.

i learned about forgiveness from God and I am not trying to go all religious on you here. as i know it now, God knew i was guilty as sin (pun intended) and he let me go free and Jesus took the rap and accepted my penalty and took what i deserved from God. when i admitted my guilt to God and accepted His forgiveness we began a new relationship based on a system God had already put into effect. He is my God and I'm his people.

to be perfectly honest here, i am mad at God in an enormous way so i may not be some great role model of Christian faith. but, issues aside, God is the only one who showed me love and goodness and what forgiveness means. now when he helps me deal with the sons of *****es who abused me for years in childhood (the memory of which i blocked for decades) so i can heal and truly mean it when i choose to forgive them - God and i will be square and on good terms again.

sorry to go on and on. i am in a horrible place tonight. from the bits of this thread i have seen i see you are in a really tough place in life now too. i am really sorry you have such personal difficulty and deployment too. that bites.

sincerely,

leslie

I want so bad just to make her and me happy again....I'm getting those stomach pains again....why cant i be happy?

I feel terrible right now.....for some reason I think she told me that she hung out with guys in aug-Sept.....is it possible that when she went to the river with this guy, she was referring to then???? If so then she did tell me....did I forget???? If thats the case then all this is happening bc my lack of memory

wow....

ncguynva.. it sounds like you are in a terrible situation... i read some of the posts before.. and to me, it sounds like you have given her wayyyy too many chances to redeem herself. You are a great person to be able to forgive your wife and to want to continue a relationship with her, not many would.
I am a military wife, nineteen.. my husband hasn't been deployed yet, though I know it's coming. I have been away from my husband though, and even though it is REALLY hard to stay behind and wait for him to come back, I can never dream of cheating on him. There is no excuse.. i've dealt with depression and anxiety. I moved thousands of miles away from my family and friends.. i have ZERO friends here.. and the weather sucks. He works at night and i'm here all alone, but that does not give me or anyone the right or an excuse to cheat or disrespect their husband.
It's one thing for her to have made a mistake.. but then she still hangs around that person.. i would not tolerate something like that.
I know exactly what you meant about the housewife thing.. i am not the housewife type of wife.. lol I hate cleaning and cooking (mostly because I suck at it haha) but I try to keep the house clean.. and I clean up after him. We never had an agreement like you did about it.. but I don't work and no kids.. so it's like what else am I going to do? I would be embarrassed if I didn't do anything ever and to have my husband and his friends see how messy the house got.
Though it may be the hardest thing you've ever done, I think the best would be for you to divorce her.. she is giving you too much stress, stress that you don't need right now. She should do the exact opposite of what she's been doing.. You're out there in the middle of no where, supporting her, and fighting for the country... and she goes out and cheats.. She should support you and do what she can to make your life easier.. not have you worrying about her and whether or not she's cheating or lying or using you.
You deserve better.. and if she can't deal with it now, then what makes you think it's going to change?
Good luckk

she says she didnt sleep with anybody since i left in june...but she did continue to see guys....i still have suspicioin that she hasnt deleted one of the two off her myspace that she cheated on me with...all she said was that she hasnt talked to them and "if you dont believe me, you dont believe me" or words to that effect

wow there's multiple guys??

what are you doing with her?

woww.. well good luck.

I just got an email from her that was a bit confusing. Here is a lil bit from there.

You say the Firebird was an accomplishment.... Your marriage to your wife should have been your accomplishment. To be married to me, and not to sound too vain (I think everyone should be to a degree) but I'm a pretty DAMN good catch. It should have made you think "this women unlike no other makes me happy and does something to me that elevates me further than I could have ever imagine". Plus any man who would catch my attn strongly enough to marry would be the luckist man alive for me to say yes. THats why for the longest time I thought "Why the hell would you put a car in frount of me on your list of priorities?!"

You mentioned in the Blog on myspace if people change. You want me to change back into the person you married. The housewife. But thing is... I did change.... but not into someone you want me to be. I've come to realized I was, and still am, a broken soul. I still have parts of me that need to be mended fixed and replaced even. Like your firebird. But I need to fix it on my own. Its one car that you can't buy parts for, or even tune easily and I don't know how long it'll take. But once I'm fixed, atleast it'll benefit me as oppose to work against me. The firebird won't make you better. But fixing yourself will always make you better. I know your doing great on working on yourself and I see that but the damaged done to me (NOT INFLICTED BY YOU) has caused serious repercussion in our marriage. So like you said the foundation wasn't strong to hold us up. Your had your foundation and there were some cracked but mine was all gone to hell. I really didn't have a good one at all.

What I'm trying to say is that if we were to come back together one day, I want to make sure I'm not broken or damaged in any way. I need to fix my foundation. You need to go out and date....You need to experiance new situations with relationships. See, I've been in all kinds of relationships, long distance, abusive, been cheated on, lied to, ****ed over, used, pysically and finacially. I've never experiaced the world. Never traveled anywhere and even partied. You on the other hand have traveled, partied and seen the world. But have not had any relationships.

I've never lived on my own to experiace all that away from mommy and daddy. Thats why a lot of things are confusing right now. And I think its transitional thing I need to go though and to take responsiblity for my own actions. As you did in the Marine Corps.




Now thats what she wrote....she started off saying she was a pretty DAMN good catch yet she was broken and her past casued alot of problems in our marriage.....doesnt that contradict itself?

It sounds like she misses the single life and sounds like she regrets not being single. Or does anybody think I am taking it the wrong way??

She also talked about relationships, long distance, abusive, been cheated on, lied to, ****ed over, used, pysically and finacially......other than being used physically, she has done all of that to me. Granted she was the first REAL girlfriend I ever had, but i look at it like this- I went from playing high school football to the NFL. I know I made my mistakes in the marriage, we all do. I'm not saying I am an MVP or anything, but I held my own. I don't think me being not as experienced in relationships hindered the marriage.....or am i missing something?

NCguy...We've talked about this before. I'm thankful that Prettyjolie posted in this thread here, because if you want to know what a real military wife feels, you should re-read her initial post.
This "wife" of yours is wrecking you. She's talking out of both sides of her mouth to confuse you. I must add, she sounds very immature, probably too immature to be married....to you or anyone.
Patty

oh sweety! She doesn't even know what she's saying. You are reading it the same way I am...she is contradicting herself. Sounds like there was feeling on her part, too, of having to "compete" with a car for your attention--however, if she were confident and comfortable with herself, she would be ok with you having a car you work on (provided you didn't ignore her for it). I am absolutely reading in that she wants to "live" before settling down--which is a little late after marriage. The line about her telling you to date and such sounds an awful lot like she's telling you to do it so she doesn't feel guilty. True, deep down love isn't telling that person, "you go your way and date, I'll go my way and date and travel and live on my own, then we'll meet up in a few years and see if we still love each other." I don't like it one bit.

So you think maybe she told you about going somewhere with one of these guys and you forgot? Really though, is that something you would forget? And even if you did, there's more to it and the one time, there's this whole email that is really showing where she's at.

To me, there's pro's and con's to "experiencing" life before getting married. You can always experience the things that really matter in life together, so if you're in love, you do them together. It sounds so much like she doesn't know who she wants to be and it's a shame that she didn't know that before the wedding.

Yeah she has said that she needs to find herself...and stuff like that. I didnt tell her i wanted her to be a housewife if she came to Japan. and I told her before about "experiencing life" that we should do taht together. In all reality, there isnt anything i can do. She wants to date other guys like she started to a year ago....fine...i will not keep somebody in a relationship that they dont want to be in.
At least she wont do it with the money i make anymore.

here was my anwer

In regards to the Firebird being an accomplishment and my marriage shouldve been my accomplishment....I thought because I couldn’t/didn’t motivate you enough to go to school for our family that I failed you. After I saw that you weren't going to school I tried to make things right I took the reins to provide for our future. When we were engaged, it took me telling you to get your GED by a certain date or I wasn't going to marry you. Within a couple weeks you got your GED. It felt like the same thing again...but I wasn’t going to divorce you bc you weren’t continuing your education...i love you and wanted to provide for you and help you.
Once I saw that you didn’t have any serious intentions on going to school, it depressed me. I couldn’t understand why you didn’t want to do that for our children? You said 2 or 3 times that you were going to start school. The first time I was excited as hell! I felt really good because it finally got through to you, or so I thought. Then you procrastinated and lost interest in school and it got me down. Then you contacted ITT Tech and I was like alright....she's serious this time. Nope....not then either. Then late 2007, early 2008 you picked it back up. I think that was the reason my parents weren't overly excited when you told them about school. You had said it before and then nothing. I wanted you to be proud and feel good about securing our future.
You talked about me telling myself "this women unlike no other makes me happy and does something to me that elevates me further than I could have ever imagine" I did think that... You were the only person that motivated me to do better in the Marine Corps. You gave me so much strength you don’t even know babe. GySgt Russell pulled me aside after you and I started getting a lil more serious and asked me what changed? I told him it was you. He said he was glad I finally found something to raise my spirits and give me something to look forward to.
It was the thought of us being parents and you starting to be a housewife in order to start being a mother that motivated me to levels I didn’t even know. Did you know that my PFT went up like 50 points during that time?? My run time was 22:30, 100 crunches and 20 pullups. The best PFT I have ever had and most likely will ever have. And you want to know what? It was me and Bonds that went running together for PT in the morning. Guess what we would talk about? A family...what to consider....what to expect, hell we even talked about what a good family vehicle would be.
And then Murphy's Law came into effect....I got selected to be a recruiter. That put a complication on things, but I tried thinking of it in a positive way. Do you remember you and me talking in the doorway of the bedroom? I had to accept those orders when they were going to be presented to me. I didn’t want to be a recruiter...I wanted to stay at Quantico and once selected for SSgt, which I had high hopes for in 2007, I wouldve been all about starting a family. I told you that before. It wasn't the extra money that I wouldve gotten, it was more of "there is no way I can get kicked out of the Marine Corps. I have a guaranteed career now...i can support my family without worries" Bc once you are a SSgt, if you chose, you can kick back and relax. You can retire as a SSgt. Not many people do that but basically what I am getting at is that I didn’t work hard in the Marine Corps to make my dad proud, I didn’t do it for my mom either, or sherrie or becky or anybody else. I did it for you. Do you think I really wanted to go back to the woods where the chiggers raped my legs???? Hell no I didn’t. It was kinda fun (not the chiggers part haha) but teaching the Lts. But I had to be there so early and come home so late.
I did all I could when I was on the MEU to re enlist overseas so we could start our life with more money and that has always been a fear of mine...beign broke....not having enough money to support you or me....failing you in other words. But I failed on a different level. One that I didn’t even realize I was doing, one that I didn’t think I could ever do. I never wanted you to feel the way you did....and it felt terrible knowing that. I tried to go through the motions and be more affectionate but the flame that bruned so hot and bright wasn't there. I didn't feel like you supported me. I know it sounds weird that you motivated me but didn’t support me. It was like, I see my wife....i think about the future I want us to have. I wanted that to be a reality so I took actions on that dream. Yes, you cooked dinner and made me Crystal Light but what I am talking about is supporting my career. Encouraging me to better myself in the Marine Corps...All I heard from you was me not being affectionate and obsessing about the car. I did nothing but support, encourage...hell I even helped you study, did your homework, take home quizzes....
When I was in Sgts Course....you helped me study. It felt great...my wife helping me out. You leaning on me....me leaning on you. That was awesome...to be able to count on somebody and for them to be there for support.
You say you never took me for granted. I find that very hard to believe now. All I wanted to do was to give you strength and inspire you to start school, be on the Dean's list, and just grow as an adult. Take responsibilities and if you fumble (which we all do....i admit I fumbled some things), learn from your mistake, apply it and keep on trucking. That’s why I always told you "Don't be sad about the past...you can't do anything about it. You can only affect the future."
So I have another question now....when did you stop wanting to be with me? Just the other day you said you would come to Japan and now it’s a 180* and honestly, I don’t feel any love.
If you are a great catch as you say you are (and this isn’t a put down or anything...just confusing), then you say it was your past and your "demons" that crumbled the marriage. Those are complications that I think I shouldve known about being your husband. I didn’t know anything about your ex bfs other than one guy. You never talked to me about them.
And just because I didn’t date a lot, doesn’t mean I am not good husband material. I don’t need to date to know that.....i learn my lessons pretty quickly. The solutions are not easy sometimes but I always ask myself "why". My Captain noticed that about me....in regards to problems we have here in the unit. He pulled me to the side and asked me if I was always like that. I told him as far as I can remember. Once you get the answer to why, you have the root of the problem and then its up to you on how to fix it.
It sounds to me like you want to be single to go out and party and do what you want, when you want. Well it hurts like hell because that’s what you started doing last year behind my back. You didn’t change....you are still her. You're just being honest with me which I appreciate but knowing that person who said she would be my life partner would rather go out and be a party girl....so be it.

i kinda did ignoreher...not putting it out there as an excuse bc its not....but the pressure she put on me re: lack of affection....starting a family.... i had to find something to vent on....and i worked on the car and raced it at the track. AS the marriage wore on and on i went to the car more and more. I told her when we started dating and my parents reminded her that the Firebird is sorta my safety or comfort blanket sorta speak.

i just read what she wrote you.. wow.. "im a good catch"... what the h3ll?

She probably is really messed up.. maybe she does feel like she hasn't experienced what you have.. sometimes I feel that way. I only dated 2 other people (not long, not real relationships) before I got married. I hope that it won't ever affect my marriage.. and if something like that happens, then you should be mature about it. Not go cheat and then use it as an excuse.

I hope you've decided to divorce her and that you'll go through with it.
good luck

What do you mean by she feels like she hasn't experienced what I have? I'm the one that didnt date much before hand. She did.

((((((((ncguynva)))))))) how ya doing? Emotions all over the place? Just wanted to check in with you and see how you were holding up.

Well been chatting with her thru emails....wouldve been more effective through instant messenger but the result still the same....

she believes that it is meant to be this way.....

I am still divorcing her and i think its better that way....but im just wanting her to be a better person.....to stop being destructive to me....to the relationship.

It's just that I still want to be with her later down the road. I have faith that she will change......

I'm just curious as to what is confusing to her and how living on her own (something she has never done) will clear things up for her? I mean she says she wants to pay the consequences for her actions and such. Fine by me but it seems she doesnt have faith that we will get back together. I will always want to be with her...i dont think i never will want to NOT be with her.

I've come to realize something after reading her emails over and over again.....When she wanted to work on the marriage...when she wasn't doing shady stuff.....she said that she worshipped the ground i walked on.....so i asked her (and she wont answer) when she stopped worshipping the ground i walked on?
If she says when school started i know its a lie.....she started seeing guys before that.....Jan/Feb....she started school in March. It sounds like she doesn't love me anymore. And she stopped last year around January and she just held onto me for the $....bc i was her meal ticket.

aw i'm sorrry, but I'm glad that you realize that she doesn't appreciate you. Maybe it's not going to work out, even later. She does sound like she has some growing up to do.
I think by saying that she hasn't experienced life, she means she doesn't think she's dated enough or that she hadn't done what she wants with her life yet to settle down.
How she feels is understandable, it happens sometimes. She should've told you this before hurting you though.
People grow apart and maybe even out of love.
She's missing out though, because you are working really hard to work it out.. and i've learned that usually it's women that do this, not men. Not many men go through hell for a girl.

It's funny...she said she never took me for granted...think i mentioned this in an email to her but she took my trust for granted....she took the fact that i worked hard to make sure that she was taken care of.....that she didnt have to go hungry....didnt have to worry about rent...power bill....anything! All this for a woman who cheated on me at least twice.....but more than likely a hell of alot more! I mean how many men would try and work out infedelity in a marriage? Ok, out of that many how many of those men would say that they would take this burden with them to Iraq, go against their own family bc they want their son to get a divorce from her, deal with the stress that she put on him, deal with HER fears (not your own) first? I mean holy crap! What else could i have done?!?!?
It's sad actually....today i looked at her Myspace. (I know Myspace is a killer of alot of marriages and relationships......I'll testify to that!) and I saw this Arab guy on there. She mentioned him before when I was in Japan. And it didnt set right with me....well I had a nightmare about him and her and this country meshed altogether...im sure you guys can figure it out. But I remember there were two numbers that she stopped calling after she said she wasnt talking to the guys that she slept with.....one of them the private investigator got the information for me....name address and such but the second one, he couldnt track down. By the time I figured out the second number, she had finally confessed and i didnt need the PI anymore. So I went online (not too long after she confessed) and went to a website and typed in the number and got some weird Arab name. She always called the Arab guy Bas or Baseem.....she said it was his nickname and never told me his real name. She also tried to convince me to let her and him stay in a hotel together for a friend's wedding. He wasn't going to the actual wedding, but just "keeping her company on the ride". But I blew the whistle on the PI at that point so she texted him and told him not to come. Now if you put all that together.....what does it sound like to you? BTW i told her on myspace to "delete the guy you cheated on me with in 24 hours or I WILL disappear from your life". I do love her with all my heart, body, mind and soul, but I WILL NOT BE DISRESPECTED. She can at least respect the marriage and stop talking to the guys.....or do you think that it is too much to ask for a soon to be ex wife? What's really sad/odd/funny/pathetic.....after i sent her the message....she deleted the guy she went to the river with (her neighbor for those of you who have been following my drama filled life).

Well she says that two dependant people cant work in a marriage, but two independant people can make it work. She says she has been in relationships before where the guy is paranoid and checks behind her on EVERYTHING. Granted I might do that for a lil bit, just to ge that warm and fuzzy back with me, but it wouldnt last anywhere near as long as she thinks it would.
Her and I did grow apart.....but it wasnt without cause.....each time she went down to our hometown from my duty station.....she grew further and further apart from me and the dog (i know some ppl are like why the hell are you mentioning the dog? Well i dont know if she was joking, but when we wed, she said the dog, a puppy at the time, was like our kid.....and so I've treated him like so since, and still think of him as my son.....an ugly, hairy smelly son but a son! haha).
It does seem like once she started seeing these guys last January, she lost that fire that she always had with us. It took me a lil bit, but i got that fire back....i guess it was too late then? But if it was too late, why was she crying her eyes out when i touched her hand that night?
WOMEN!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

She has some growing up to do, some sorting out, some figuring if these guys will adore and honor her as you do. Maybe she is in self-destruct mode. Once you are divorced, it will be hard to remember that you no longer own the right to feel jealous or hurt when she goes out with someone new, because you still love her. Don't ever lose a way to contact her if you have hopes of a later with her. My heart hurts for what you are going through--please take care of yourself during this and make sure you don't fall into the self-destructive mode, either. I know that in the miliary, there are plenty of opportunties to do things that are not great for yourself. Be careful and safe and healthy.

Yeah, thats the point I'm at now. She said she is happy for me since I "found somebody" (the girl ive been talking to on the internet). And her attitude since has changed. It's like she flipped a switch going to friend mode. Maybe its the fact that I haven't dated much before but its alot harder for me to "flip the switch" sorta speak.

To me, that's a sign of your commitment...you were married--you shouldn't be able to flip a switch and say "good for you for dating!" It's just not right. Make sure you have your head and heart straight before you start dating.

Yeah, and tahts what scares me. In a Mysapce blog I put in there basically i did everything i could for her and that she needs to fix herself yadda yadda yadda and that i finally need to look after myself and put myself first. She responded to she :: cough cough:: finally ::cough cough:: needs to put herself first too.....

GRRR she has been putting herself first since January of last year! GRRR women!

BTW the girl ive been talking to online.....we came to realize that we need to be there as friends to each other before anything else. I even encouraged the girl im talking to, to go out and date other guys....for one...im still technically married.....two....im not over Ashleigh (wife)...and i dont know when/if i will be