Understanding=forgiveness?

I did not say you were punishing her...Forgiveness is not a one way street,,more often than not it generally begins with ourselves and the penence served for real or imagined sins is a common reason to allow contracts of various types to continue long after their lives are over.

I'm sorry ncguynva for your pain. It is unjust from your description. But we are only offering our perspectives with what little we have about your circumstances to understand. I admit my personal failing there.

But our motives are to support you...not defile you.

With Care,

Lenny

I did not say you were punishing her...Forgiveness is not a one way street,,more often than not it generally begins with ourselves and the penence served for real or imagined sins is a common reason to allow contracts of various types to continue long after their lives are over.

I'm sorry ncguynva for your pain. It is unjust from your description. But we are only offering our perspectives with what little we have about your circumstances to understand. I admit my personal failing there. I do not think you failed, more as a misinterpitation of words.

But our motives are to support you...not defile you.

With Care,

Lenny

Let me try this again as the first one got lost...

[quote=ncguynva;919124]"Good housewife/housewife activities" might just be a euphemism that you were already aware, but had not admitted it, that she was being unfaithful. It's much easier to place blame on it than to admit you were betrayed... Actually no, it was she said she was going to be a housewife and when we were engaged she said she wanted to go to college before we had kids. I am not trying to hide anything when I said "housewife" or "housewife activitives". I was referring to picking up around the home and I was not expecing a shiny palace, just a place I would'nt be embarassed of if we had company come by unexpectantly.

***I am sorry that I did not make myself clear.
It's sometimes easier to look at something else because the real problem is so painful...a coping mechanism I've used often.
It was not meant that you were hiding anything...

The other side of the coin is that many women are not the housewife type--I'm one of them. No one can can eat off my floor, but ya won't get a dreaded disease. And that is what I was wanted....if i brought home the bacon, and she REALLY wanted to be a housewife in order to become a mother, the least she could do is be a decent housewife. Many times my buddies came over and they asked me if the apartment was always lke this. I told them it was and they responded with "Well what does she do all day?"

***It was a comparison...some women are "light housekeepers" and others are the full monty.
My SO and I compromised about a clean kitchen. I usually kept it clean but he cleaned it after he filleted the fish he had caught. Give and Take.
I'm sorry that she didn't honor her end of the compromise.

A reaction to my mother's style of housekeeping that you could eat out of her toilet! That is not a joke...
Many times compromises can ease things, sometimes it won't. Yes, that is something that we were trying to comprimise on, but after it was brought up to her, I discovered that she had been seeing guy friends and lying about it. So needless to say, it was disappointment after disappointment.
***and for this I am so sorry.
It must have been incredibly embarrassing and frustrating when she did not fulfill her end of the bargain and your buddies couldn't help but notice and say something.

It honestly doesn't sound like housework was the ongoing issue...perhaps mistrust and having a need to feel some control were/are part of the discord. Control over who or what? I do not like where this is going Capp.
***When I am overwhelmed and drowning in frustration, it gives me comfort if I have even a tiny thing that is in my control. Not controlling another person, but controlling something/anything that eased my feelings of hopelessness.

You are making me out to be a controlling, abusive, psycho husband.
ncguynva, I have never thought this of you! Never. Reread some of my replies where I tried my best to give you support and respect for your determination and your focus.
One of them mentioned that you are a worthwhile human being deserving of respect--or words to that affect.

A controlling, abusive husband wouldnt be depressed/saddened/slightly angry that his wife was not starting college or even looking at college. An abusive husband would want to have all the control over his wife that he could, and i do not want control over her.
***I've never thought you were an abusive husband.
I still think you are a grieving husband...and for very good reasons.

It saddens me that this misunderstanding has occurred between us. For my part, I am sorry.
Sometimes it's hard to read between the words, and apparently I've royally screwed up.

Cap

It saddens me that this misunderstanding has occurred between us. For my part, I am sorry.
Sometimes it's hard to read between the words, and apparently I've royally screwed up.

Cap

No, Cap, you are human. Communication is not as easy as some people think. And I do think that a misinteruptitation (did i spell that right??) happened. But there is no reason to beat yourself up. You have made yourself clear now so no harm, no foul
I also think that CantStopCrying was right about me being defensive and on edge sorta speak because my wife accusing me of being abusive. I have said it before, i hate being called that.

But no, I do not think that I was looking at her lack of housekeeping activities instead of her unfaithfulness bc it was too painfull. I told her about her lack of housekeeping might've (and i am strong to believe that is was the most obvious one that came to my attention) had me so disappointed and sad, that i didnt want to come home. I remember I used to come home everyday for lunch and watch a tv show with her (usually Charmed hehe) and spend some time with her. But I stopped doing that....The only explanation I could come up with (because the neglect was obvious to me when i realized i didint come home for lunch, and i dreaded coming home), was her lack of housekeeping. That's the only thing that changed. I would like to think that it was such a small task and easy to accomplish that she would've done fine at it. I really did/do want her to the mother of my children, and i said "ok" to her being a housewife bc 1. I got a promotion and money wasn't really an issue 2. I was looking at starting a family with her before she went to college. I just wanted to see if she could be a good housewife. I understand you get caught up doing this or that or you get on the computer and lose track of time, but that was a daily occurance with her. It only got worse when she started talking to the guys in Richmond(and went there to see them instead of doing what she promised to do).

***When I am overwhelmed and drowning in frustration, it gives me comfort if I have even a tiny thing that is in my control. Not controlling another person, but controlling something/anything that eased my feelings of hopelessness.

Cap, a lightbulb just came on when I read that the second time over....when she got overhwelmed, frustrated, depressed....basically feeling bad....she would want to go out and have a good time to forget her problems. I guess that is a coping mechanism.

Can anybody please tell me how she can show me while i am over here in the sandbox that she is not seeing guys?
Now here i go arguing the opposite side of the discussion- Even IF she can do that, the fact that she did it and didn't see anything wrong with it even after I told her to not hang out with guys i dont know, is still there. How do I know that she truely believes that it is wrong?
Now here's the other side- A few weeks ago, when we were talking (no fighting) she was asking me if I could handle the fact that she would have to go out and be social with clients and construction is mostly a male career. I told her yeah I would be, then she asked why she couldn't go out with guys now. I simply told her that I WOULD be ok with it, after she and I smoothed things over and trust came back into the relationship. But, for obvious reasons, I cant trust her with guys. Not just sleeping with them, but acting like a wife with them. Going to a batting cafe/put put, having a guy in the apartment from 11pm-3:30am, ect.

I no longer think understanding why I did/do something I don't wish to is as important as just not doing it! Only actions really count in the end? Yes, we have to first see what we're doing before we can work on changing the behavior but it's the behavior change that wins in the end, not the understanding?

I understand that some people take a long time to change; I was in therapy from 1978 until 2005 afterall, but I literally changed and grew, made different/better choices while I was in therapy. I got married in 1989 and my relationship being so good was a direct result of my therapy from 1978-1987 and what skills I learned.

I would look carefully at your wife's actions, rather than spend too much time trying to understand her or decide whether what she or her therapist allegedly has to say makes sense. If she just wants the money you represent, is afraid of not having it, that's her problem, not yours! If she isn't working to become closer to you, communicate better with you (whether or not you yell, that's your problem; but congratulations on working so hard and succeeding on doing less of that) then I don't see how she is working on the marriage?

I'm on your side on this one. I couldn't do it. My (ex) husband went to Canada for 9 days with 2 girls and didn't even tell me about it (I was in Michigan, he was in Boston), couldn't figure out why I was panicking when I couldn't get a hold of him, saw absolutely nothing wrong with it. NOTHING. Then brought one of them into the house to "mingle" a few months later, after we got housing and I moved out there. To this day he will tell you there is nothing wrong with it. If she is going out with a mutual friend, someone you trust, maybe. She is married to you. I don't see it being acceptable, not with her history.

If she is going out with a mutual friend, someone you trust, maybe. Exactly! I told her back in August, that i wanted to meet her guy friends taht she was hanging out with. One reason was to ask them WTF, she is a married woman, you need to respect that. And two, so I could trust them or at least try to. But she didnt do that...she claimed she was trying to concentrate on me and her, not other guys.
Hell, I even said if i dont know the guy and you REALLY want to hang out with him, go with a friend that i trust, so the three of you go out.

I don't see it being acceptable, not with her history BINGO! I thought I was crazy for thinking that!

......

I no longer think understanding why I did/do something I don't wish to is as important as just not doing it! Only actions really count in the end? Yes, we have to first see what we're doing before we can work on changing the behavior but it's the behavior change that wins in the end, not the understanding?

While that is true, just not doing it, would be a quick fix, I like to think of it as doing the quick fix first, and then diving into why it happened, so you see the warning signs again, and crush it before it happens again....does that make sense??

For me? Yes and no. The insecure little girl part still wonders why I wasn't good enough. Was I not pretty enough, not thin enough, not smart enough, etc etc etc. But the honest change in the behavior is the important part yes.

I know that i neglected her and thats when the emotional affairs started.....when i told her i was going to japan alone....she took it to the next level.

You both were responsible for the breakdown of the relationship; however, you are only responsible for your own actions. You didn't "cause" her to cheat, didn't "make" her cheat. That's the same thing as an abuse victim saying, "I shouldn't have talked back, I made him mad." This is one of the hardest thing you will ever go through in your life. How people handle adversity and challenges is rarely known until adversity and challenges occur--you are in love with the woman you married, not knowing how she would handle the challenge of you being gone. Being a military wife truly is the toughest job in the military, and not everyone can do it. She has to decide whether she can do it or not and you have to decide if you believe that she can. ****sigh****

oh no....i will never take responsibility for her actions....i will however take responsibility for making her feel bad which resulted from me neglecting her. just because i did one thing, she didnt have to do what she did.

NCguy...I had avoided reading this thread, primarily because of the opening title..."Understanding=forgiveness." I DO know about understanding and forgiveness, even when I was the naive one being taken advantage of. Even in those situations, however, the one to be forgiven and healed was MYSELF. So I avoided this thread.

Now, having read all the responses...it's a long thread here...I have a few thoughts, though my mind is a bit garbled from all the feedback! I'm going to speak plainly and to the point, maybe even bluntly.

In reading all the posts in this thread, from you and others, it is still unclear to me whether you have children with this woman. You've said she wanted to stay at home and be a wife and mother. Do you have any children with her? I ask, and maybe you answered this question previously, and I missed it. But the issue of parenthood really does complicate things regarding support and money.

Speaking from one who knows what it is to truly love a man (though I am solo today), I can tell you that any man who is truly loved would not have to deal with the issues of infidelity with which you've had to tangle. That, on top of being deployed to Iraq, which is difficult under the most ideal circumstances in a relationship..,you are worried about what she's doing, and who she is with! This wife of yours is giving you a great deal of stress and heartache.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a home be kept somewhat tidy, especially if the wife is staying home all day, not working, and has no children. I don't see this as "controlling," but more like it's part of her "job" as a stay-at-home wife. She should want to create a pleasant environment for the two of you. I'm confused on this matter, though...You mentioned her going out with "construction" people. Is this a job? Adding to this issue of the house, I too am no tidy home keeper, but I've found that most clutter can be tidied within an hour or less...not a big chore.

My overall impression is that you are being taken advantage of...primarily for your income. Sorry to say this.

My other thought is about your contact with this other woman online via emails. Not a good idea at this time for you. You have far too much going on to be engaging with another female. You need to assess your present situation and decide what is healthiest for you to do at this time before seeking the company of another!
Patty

RE the previous post... No, I'm not beating myself up
Which is very different to admitting my own part in this

I'm glad for you about the light bulb.
Perhaps it's a coping mechanism or not; I won't hazard on guess on it. You know her better.

Cap

NCguy...I had avoided reading this thread, primarily because of the opening title..."Understanding=forgiveness." I DO know about understanding and forgiveness, even when I was the naive one being taken advantage of. Even in those situations, however, the one to be forgiven and healed was MYSELF. So I avoided this thread.

Now, having read all the responses...it's a long thread here...I have a few thoughts, though my mind is a bit garbled from all the feedback! I'm going to speak plainly and to the point, maybe even bluntly.

In reading all the posts in this thread, from you and others, it is still unclear to me whether you have children with this woman. You've said she wanted to stay at home and be a wife and mother. Do you have any children with her? I ask, and maybe you answered this question previously, and I missed it. But the issue of parenthood really does complicate things regarding support and money.

Speaking from one who knows what it is to truly love a man (though I am solo today), I can tell you that any man who is truly loved would not have to deal with the issues of infidelity with which you've had to tangle. That, on top of being deployed to Iraq, which is difficult under the most ideal circumstances in a relationship..,you are worried about what she's doing, and who she is with! This wife of yours is giving you a great deal of stress and heartache.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a home be kept somewhat tidy, especially if the wife is staying home all day, not working, and has no children. I don't see this as "controlling," but more like it's part of her "job" as a stay-at-home wife. She should want to create a pleasant environment for the two of you. I'm confused on this matter, though...You mentioned her going out with "construction" people. Is this a job? Adding to this issue of the house, I too am no tidy home keeper, but I've found that most clutter can be tidied within an hour or less...not a big chore. It took me only half an hour to pick up the place, wash the dishes and just wipe down the kitchen. When she left me to go see her boyfriends in our hometown, that was teh first thing that I did. She would then come home on Sunday and remark on how good the place looked. She also has said that since my parents and my childhood was so negative and full of spite, I only remember the negatve things. Do not get me wrong, there were times that she dd have a nice cold drink waiting for me when i would come home from a long day of work, and the apartment was kept up, but those were few and far between.

My overall impression is that you are being taken advantage of...primarily for your income. Sorry to say this.

My other thought is about your contact with this other woman online via emails. Not a good idea at this time for you. You have far too much going on to be engaging with another female. You need to assess your present situation and decide what is healthiest for you to do at this time before seeking the company of another! I think it is best that I end all contact with my soon to be ex wife. She won't even take the guy she went to the river with off of her Myspace profile! That tells me right there that she wasn't sorry for doing what she did.
Patty

Thank you

To answer your question, no, there are no kids. I know somebody will get a laugh out of this, but we have a dog. When she went to Richmond, she left the dog with me all the time. When we were fresh, ziplock fresh newly weds, we said the puppy was like our kid. And there was a couple times where she beat the dog by punching him in his face for "not listening to her". She did this in front of me and I got between her and the dog and got the dog out of the room. Then there were the many many times she left me and the dog to go out with her boyfriends. She abandoned us....i dont want that dog in her posession any longer than he has to be.

NCguy...I'm taking a huge sigh of relief to hear that there are no children involved....especially since you just described her behavior toward your dog.
Something you should feel good about...It is clear that many people care about you here on PC, evidenced from all the concerned feedback you are receiving. Please try to let this comfort you as you make your hard decisions.
Patty

You know, I beleive she can turn around and she will eventually. But the question really is...Can I handle the abuse/lies/deceit she will dish out before she gets better? The answer to that question is no. I think I'm topped off on the BS she shovels

Back again.... Talked with her last night on yahoo, and i told her that i was thinking about giving it another chance, but the amount of stress it put me under was nearly unbearable. And I do not want to live with that the next time i deploy.
She told me she would come to Japan, bu I can't risk it. Not just health/stress issues, but last time I came home and tried to work things out about the infedelity, the last day i was there she changed her mind about wanting to stay in the marriage. It not only crushed me, but made everything I did seem like it didn't have an impact on her. I think she finally realized that I am a patient person and that there aren't many men out there who would've done what I did for her (bringing this burden with me while deployed and me trying to make her feel better and get rid of her fears).
Then she told me something that got me thinking. She said that when I get stationed stateside, she is willing to move and live with me. That tells me two things- 1. She wants to be with me 2. She isn't after the money bc as you military wives and former military wives know, spouses rate a certain amount of $ (usually spent on housing), but nonetheless you rate it. She said she doesn't care about that, she wants to be with me and just wished that it would've worked out different.
I told her that I can't say yes on just words anymore. I have to see something and that would most likely be something taht would gain my trust again.

Great answer to her!! I like that you weren't ready to make a commitment on just her saying it. I'm sorry I don't remember--how long do you have left over there?

i cant answer that question over a non secure line like this