It was hard to be with T yesterday!

I told myself I would NOT let my feelings for my T interfere with my session yesterday! I succeeded fairly well, but I don't know how to get through this!! I've never felt like this about my other Ts. It's much worse. I looked at her and it was like being 11 again, the starting age of my crushes. She looked so pretty to me that I couldn't stand it. I don't know why I react like this. I'm so embarrassed!! I didn't tell her this time, except when we talked about my feeling fat and ugly. I said she was thin. But I couldn't look at her because of the way I felt. I guess it was like being in love. And loving her. And feeling the connection. And knowing how much she likes me. I got through it and know I have to accept my feelings. But it hurts to look at her! I tried to keep my eyes closed a lot and that helped. It's not a sexual thing I don't think. I don't know if it's transference. I can't stand it but I have to!

No other T or person in my life has gotten so close to me. She truly wants to know me and to help me. I wish she weren't so pretty. Maybe I'm bisexual or why would I be so attracted to her looks? Or is it the whole package deal? I like when she doesn't look so good and those feelings aren't there. I'm going to have to deal with this. Repeating myself. What can I possibly do? Yes, I have my life but T is there, smiling at me. That's good and makes me miserable and good at the same time. Sorry for this pathetic post. T wants me to do things for myself, not just for her. Working on all of it, despite what some of you may think. I think the car accident messed with my brain.

You have to tell T how you feel. And I'm serious about this. Don't end up like me, having never told T about it, and feeling like crap 3 months after termination posting threads about it. I know it seems weird, but these feelings are normal and common, and you must tell her if you want to get anything out of therapy.

I've told her about it many times but thanks for your suggestion. It doesn't help. It's my pattern with all my Ts, but it's worse with her. I just don't know how to deal with it right now. She understands I have a part who feels that way, and she accepts her and wants me to. I accept her, but I still have those feelings!!!!!

Rainbow, do you think you are able to get anything positive out of T when you are struggling so with this?
You say it is not getting better, it is only getting worse. This has been going on for a LOT of years now.
When are you going to change it? Yes, when are YOU going to change it? It is not T's job to change you. It is not your job to passively sit there and wait to be 'changed'. YOU are the only one who can change you.
I wonder if you want to change at all. You have said, over and over that you do. Yet all your actions over the last few years (that I am aware of) serve to keep the pattern intact. Sometimes I feel so frustrated by your posts because it seems obvious, to me, that your actions and decisions serve to keep your pattern intact even as you try to tell us otherwise. Your defences and denial are so very strong about this, Rainbow.
So, what do you have?
Well, you are unahppy. Your marriage seems unhappy. Your relationships with friends and other family members seem unfulfilling and rather empty as well.
You have your T. You have your dreams and fantasies of your relatonship with her, which always seems to go through the same phases of idealisation and let down. You coninually build the relationship up in your mind and when you inevitably bump up against the limits of the therapeutic relationship you are devastated all over again. This happens over and over again, and has been happening over and over again for many, many years, with different Ts.
You can keep doing it if you want. If you like you can hang on to the scraps that Ts will throw out to you, and never give you more than you are currently getting. You will always go through those cycles of ideation followed by the devastating fall. If you want, you can act out this pattern for the rest of your life. You've done 20 years of it - what's the harm in continuiing for another 20?

This is a really sad way to live, Rainbow.

So sorry you are going through this (((rainbow)))

I can relate and I have been there and it's so difficult. I too have done things to want to please T.

On the subject when it comes to being attracted to the same sex I have never explored that option. However there are people (women) that I have been attracted to but not for there looks but for there 'person' if that makes sense. I think people can be 'bi' to varying degrees. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. People are people.

Rainbow, I decided to make a chart with three columns: T as my T, T as the adult's mom, and T as the child's mom. I wrote down all kinds of things like amount of contact (emails, phone calls, and in-person time -- 3 separate rows), hugs/touching, topics of conversations, and conflict/conflict resolution. What I learned from this exercise is that the first two columns were actually quite similar. My T does mother me within healthy boundaries. Looking at the third column I realized just how impossible this would be and it was silly for me to even think that it could work. She cannot/doesn't provide food and shelter for me, unlimited hugs and "I love yous" really are only for children, someone ALWAYS being there just isn't realistic. Perhaps you could do a similar type exercise?

Luce, I did not see the replies here until eastcoaster pointed them out to me. You're very smart and I always value your input. I'm crying because I don't know what to do. Maybe I want to go on the way I am. I keep thinking I don't have many years left to live though my Dad lived into his 90's. My Mom didn't. But that's stupid. I don't know why I love and am in love with my T. I know rationally about limits and so on, but I act so stupidly. I'm not stupid. The only solution is to quit therapy, but my T is trying to help me. I just started talking about my weight, and appearance. I want her to help with that. I don't know what to do to stop the feelings. It hurts too much. I distract myself a lot and I'm okay, but then something happens. I don't know what the work is. You mean like never email her again? Never ask her anything about herself? Never? Ever?

One comment. My relationship with a few close friends IS fulfilling. That's not a problem.

I don't know if I want to change but I don't want to be miserable and in love with my T. I can't stand feeling like that. It hurts too much.

Thanks, geez. Good points!

Thank you, eastcoaster. I'll try it and let you know how it turns out. I promise.

Rainbow, I can't pretend to know what the answer is for you. I can only comment on what I see, and that is acknowledging that what you are doing hurts you, and that it is going on and on and on without changing. I do agree that you have made minor changes over the years - you no longer drive past Ts house and you no longer google information of them over the net - but although these changes were 'big' for you to go through, in the grand scheme of things they are but a drop in the ocean.
I look at your last T session, and you made three posts about it, and ALL of them were about your T... about what she was doing, how you are connected to her, how you feel about her, similarities between you, etc etc.
It makes me wonder - if you took T out of the equation, what would you talk about? If therapy were just about YOU what would you say?

I know this question may seem overly simple and I'm not sure if it applies. Just something that popped up n my brain. I'm not just asking this question to you but myself as well:

Is it possible to be addicted to therapy ('therapeutic relationship')or a part of therapy (attention, love, genuine interest)?

It's interesting that you say that about "the equation" because a few weeks ago my T told me something she had just made up and insisted on writing down on a piece of paper and giving to me: "It's not taking me out of the equation; it's puting your "self" in there too!" So, that's where I am now. Putting my Self in there too, with her, not excluding her.

Now to answer your question. There are two questions implied.
1. If therapy were just about me, and not about her, what would I talk about? That already exists, and I have posted about my sessions like that. I've talked about my Mom and Dad, my H, my brother, my friends, my kids, my grandchildren, my work when I used to work, my hobbies, my religion, and more. I'm not going to post details online all about private information.

We do meditation and talk about mindfulness. I don't want to leave out EMDR. I've done it on a variety of issues, most not having to do with my T. I've talked a lot about shame and my body. So, of course therapy is not only about my T and my relationship with her.

2. Why do I talk mostly about my T-relationship on this forum? I'm not going to divulge details about my life, things that are NOT about my T, though I have at times. Too much, I think. There is no other place to talk about feelings for my T. A lot of other posters' threads are about the same issue, so I come here for understanding, where I don't have to be ashamed of my feelings. (it doesn't seem so safe to do that in the main forum since my thread, though). I also try to do it INSTEAD of emailing my T right away. I post here first, and then see if I still want to email her.

I'm always felt and told people that I'm addicted to therapy! There is something called "love addiction", and I have a book about it. I forgot the title exactly, but it does exist. You can probably google "addicted to love" or "love addiction". But I think I'm totally addicted to therapy because of the attention I get, and because of the feelings I get when I'm in the session and feel connected to my T. The intensity, whether positive or negative. I think it's some kind of hormonal thing. Really I do. It feels sexual but not really. I don't feel it exactly the same way with anyone other than a T.

hi rainbow,

i too am concerned for you about your being in therapy and not seeing any real change in "your pattern". you've been in therapy almost 20 years with no real results concerning this issue. i do think you have made a little progress in other areas with your current T but because your "pattern" is your main issue i have to say that individual therapy really doesn't seem to be working. i do believe there is a part of you that wants to get well, but i wonder if you want it enough to really make the necessary changes. i think that if you are really serious about working thru your issues you would not do individual therapy because it is obviously too difficult to work through your dependency issues with someone who you will inevitably become so addicted to. honestly, i think you are unconsciously playing a bit of a game with yourself by telling yourself that you are working on your pattern while you are at the same time indulging it. it's just like the alcoholic moving into the back of the bar while lamenting that he can't stop drinking. if you really want to be well i think you are going to have to move out of the bar so to speak. you have tried this most recent T to get over your pattern and according to your OP it clearly isn't working.

for what it's worth i believe what has happened to you is that by being in an incubator as a newborn you developed abandonment issues. maybe it was because of those early health issues that your mother overprotected you and didn't allow you to individuate. whatever the reason, she kept you a dependent child with the result being much learned helplessness. while you did gain some independence by getting married, etc. once your mother died you felt abandoned yet again. i don't believe you have ever fully grieved the loss of your mother and keep using your Ts to replace her and continue to be in that dependent place rather than growing up to full adulthood and maturity. grieving is a many-layered process and not something that happens in a few instances. also, you need to grieve the loss of not being allowed to individuate as a child. then, you need to learn the life skills you weren't allowed to develop with your overprotective mom.

rather than doing this hard work you seem to want to stay in the womb with a long line of surrogate moms--your Ts. what you had with your mom was not very healthy in many ways and really you need to get angry about that and finally individuate as all kids eventually do when they grow up. it is time to grow up and stop trying to get your T to be your mom. it will never, ever happen. she is not your friend either--nor your lover. your fantasy is just that and no you won't find it out in real life either because it is an addiction. an alcoholic doesn't give up alcohol only to take up drugs. rather, they get sober and deal with why they were drinking and find that real life can be pretty great too especially without all the craziness of the highs and lows. rainbow, it's time to take some responsibility and take positive action to be mature. it's time to stop focussing on and indulging your unhealthy desires and longings. i'm not saying to deny or repress them but not to let them run your life. they are running your life when you say things like you are living for therapy and the rest of your life feels like a distraction. seriously, that is an incredibly out of control place to be. it is time to sober up rainbow!

it seems to me that what you need in order to heal is to develop a sense of independence and competency. rather than focusing on childhood stuff, because you've done that, why not identify what you want in life and set some goals and work to meet them. you have complained your marriage is not very happy so go get some marriage counseling. you want to travel so make some plans to travel and confront your fear of flying. since you haven't fully grieved the loss of your mother join a grief group and listen to others' stories. you want to lose weight so join weight watchers or curves. you are a love addict so join love addicts anonymous. you are excessively focused on what you don't have so get out and volunteer with those who are less fortunate to give you some perspective and gratitude. what i am saying is there are many, many things you can do besides individual therapy to get healthy that will actually move you forward rather than backward. i am not knocking therapy but i am knocking individual therapy for you at this point in time. you are responsible for your life and you are the only one who can make the changes and decisions you need to make to get healthy. please don't think i'm suggested "busyness" as the answer as i am not at all. what i'm saying is go after what you really want and need in life rather than a fantasy that you will never have that is making you increasingly miserable and ruining the life you do have. it's fine to discuss all this with your T but don't tell yourself that she is unbiased. she wants to help you and you are her paying client. that doesn't mean she is able to help you though and after 2 1/2 years you are more addicted than ever.

lastly, i would suggest thinking about your life and what you will regret having done and not done when you are at the very end of your life. honestly, i think you will regret spending so much time and focus on your Ts. and, i think you will regret things you wanted to do but didn't make a priority e.g. things like not working on your marriage.

i think we all want to see you get well and find contentment rainbow but it isn't going to happen until you take your life seriously and act in your own best interests rather than nurturing this fantasy life. you can live in a fantasy world where you will never find satisfaction or you can live in real life which, no is not perfect, but one in which many people find much meaning and contentment. you choose worlds.

One of the best posts I've read on PC, and your suggestions are applicable to many of us!

blur, at first I was wondering who you were and how you knew so much about me! Then I saw that you were bloom3! Your post is filled with truths but it also hurts me. I'm not going to reject it or try to get defensive, but I know that everything you suggested is way too overwhelming for me to tackle all at once. Some things I have done already. I see your point about not being in individual T but I don't feel like I can quit right now, although I brought up that possibility in the email to my T yesterday when I said we have to make some plans. I always said I was addicted to therapy. My H is right about that.

I wasn't going to quote your post but I changed my mind though it makes me cry. I have to realize that I don't have to do everything people suggest to me. I get overwhelmed and think that I do, and then think I'm a failure. So, let me read it again, sentence by sentence. I'm writing spontaneously; that's my way. I appreciate all the time you took to post this. I've wondered who are all these people who read my threads, and now I remember that you're one of them. Thank you.

I know. I have to give up the fantasy world. I want to have a middle ground with my T. I will see what she thinks tomorrow. I've never cried with any T as you probably know, but it may happen. I am hoping I can try some other things rather than quit. A close friend in RL who knows all about my T journey says I should not quit. She sees me more aware and making changes.

I hope my answers aren't defensive. If you think they are, please tell me because I was trying to answer honestly and am not discounting anything you said.

rainbow, one of my pastors told an interesting story not too long ago. i don't remember all the details but it is about a guy who has two dogs: one white and one black. my pastor was asking which dog is the stronger one and goes on to describe the two dogs but it is really hard to get a read on which might be the stronger dog. finally, after people have guessed which dog is the stronger one, some saying the white one and others the black one, the pastor tells us which it is: the one the owner feeds more. the moral of the story is whatever urge or desire we feed is the one that will grow stronger. so, if you continue to feed and nurture your fantasy life it will just grow stronger but if you feed your healthy desires to individuate and leave therapy then you will grow stronger and more independent and confident. i know it isn't easy at all but i do believe it's true that whichever desire we feed will have more control over our lives. just something to think about...

take care rainbow. i do care about you.

Rainbow, I just wanted to respond to these comments about your age because they come up often. You frequently say that you that you don't know if it's possible (or worthwhile) to try and change certain behaviors because you've had them your whole life and now you "don't have that long left." But you're only in your 60s... 62 I believe? You seem way too young to have that kind of an attitude about your age. (And yes, it is a cop out). I mean, if you don't believe you can change (or want to change) because you're " too old"-- then what would be the point of therapy? (unless of course, you're using therapy as a way NOT to change by only indulging your pattern). But, putting that possibility aside in order to say focused on the issue of age, I honestly find it shocking that you view yourself as "not having that much time left." I realize that your mom died rather young (though your dad didn't), but the average life expectancy for a woman in the US is currently 80.8 years. (Not sure if you're in the US or UK; doesn't really matter). If you were 75 or 80, I might understand your comments more. But in your early 60s?

My best point of reference is my dad-- he's 66-- and it's incredibly difficult for me to reconcile your point of view with his. (Not that my dad's point of view is "right"; he's just MY point of reference). My dad's attitude is that 60 is the "new 40" and, only in the last few years, has he decided to make some significant, positive changes in his life. He found out that his cholesterol was elevated and it "clicked" for him that if he WANTED to change, he could. So, after having NEVER exercised in his life (ok, except for grade school gym class), he started working out and he joined a health clinic to learn about healthier eating. He traded in his Mac & Cheese for chicken & veggies. He even stopped drinking Coke!!!!! (Since I was born, he's had a Coke Fridge, a Coke Storage Closet, and Coke memerobelia in his house AND in his office. As a child, he fed me Coke instead of milk). Now, Coke is banned from his house! And, on his 65th birthday, he called me to tell me that he did 65 push-ups. At 64, he could not do a single push-up. He's also made HUGE emotional changes. My whole life, my dad has been emotionally distant. As a child, when I wanted to talk to him, I had to call his secretary and have her hunt him down and put him on the phone. I've complained about this my whole life. I had gotten to the point where I'd written him off as "not being capable of change." Even my T told me to write him off!!!! And then, lo and behold, 2 years ago, my dad calls me out of the blue and says: "I've been doing some thinking and I'd like to talk to you more." Now, my dad actually calls ME. In fact, he called me today. He REMEMBERED that I was having another MRI and wanted to see how it went. He NEVER would have done that before. He's been a better dad in the last 2 years than he's ever been-- even though I'm now an adult and live across the country from him. But you know what? When the day comes that my dad ISN'T around anymore (maybe 20 or 30 years from now), I'm going to remember this NEW dad rather than the old dad who forgot to call. It means a lot to me that, at 60, he took stock of his life, and realized that what matters are his kids and his health-- and now he's DEMONSTRATING that through his actions. He's always SAID that me & my sister come first, not his job. But where was he every night? At work. When we went out to dinner or did an activity, what did he talk about? Work. When his office called what did he do? Run back to work. he THOUGHT this didn't affect us. He THOUGHT he was a great dad because he didn't drink, he didn't hit us, he paid for everything we needed, and my sister & I turned out pretty well. But we still resented him for being a work-a-holic and always choosing work over us. Because even when was there he wasn't really "there." My dad has always been obsessed with work in the same way an alcoholic is obsessed with booze, or you are obsessed with your T. And yes, my dad still goes to work every day, but it's no longer an addiction for him. Now, he takes the time to call us & hear about OUR day. He's achieved balance, after being out of balance for 60 years. I told him recently that I appreciated these changes he's made and his response was that he resisted them for sooo long and finally, he just stopped resisting them. And they were so much easier than he thought! And he's so much happier now, like everyone always told him he'd be (but he never believed them; he thought he could ONLY be happy when he was at work, winning a case). His birthday is this month and when I called to book my plane ticket, he said "you know, my 60s are the best decade of my life." And, as an outside observer, I'd have to agree. He seems "younger" now than he did in his 40s and 50s... because he's healthy and happy. When he THOUGHT work was making him happy, he actually looked pretty miserable!

Sorry if I've gone on too long of a tangent about my dad... my point was just to say that being in one's 60s does NOT mean that it's "too late" to change or that is "no point" in learning to change! IF you are interested in improving your marriage with your husband, IF you are interested in having even stronger relationships with your children, IF you are interested in living a healthier lifestyle (re: nutrition & exercise), IF you are interested in cultivating other hobbies, and IF you REALLY want to make your RL a life that is happier and more fulfilling (so you won't WANT to live in a T fantasy land)... YOU CAN. It's not too late. Nothing is stopping you... but you. You are a stronger person that you probably realize. YOU are in control! (Heck, if my dad can learn how to send a picture text, ANYTHING is possible!!!!)

Looking forward to hearing how your session went today! (It was today, right?)

Can I get your Dad's phone number and ask him to marry me....sorry...I'm sure he is taken...but he sounds like he is a righteous guy!

and

scorpiosis, I didn't want to ignore your response to me because it's so true. It's just that I'm embarrassed about my age, especially on the psych forum where I'm one of the oldest. I kmow 60 is the new 40, and 80 the new 60, but I also have 2 friends my age who died within the last 2 years. It's scary for me, and I talk to my T about it. So, there's a topic that has nothing to do with my relationship with her. My Mom's death at 68 is a factor. Thanks so much for sharing about your Dad!!! Yes, he changed and is a wonderful role model for me and others who think like me! I am very happy for you that he changed his life around like that. I also have my own father as a model because he kept painting until he was in his 90's and couldn't hold the brush anymore!

For me, it's part of my negative thinking and attitudes. But I have done some things recently that I've wanted to do my whole life and haven't. I know it's never too late, but I need to act on that more.

Thank you for your post.