[Rainbowfairy]

I believe this is my last hurdle in recovering from childhood sexual abuse.

I'm currently at a loss as to how to tackle it. I have been experiencing this since I was a young child, definitely prior to puberty. The abuse started at age 4, so could be any time from then.

I'd like to know if there is anyone else who has experienced this? Have you overcome it? Would you like to discuss strategies to overcome it?

I couldn't find very much on the net, understandably. This is a very difficult thing to admit, there is a lot of (misguided) shame attached to it. It feels like you are wishing abuse on yourself, that it's so ingrained in your brain that you deserved the whole lot. However, I know logically this isn't true, and I believe I can release it, somehow. I guess I'd like to know I'm not alone.

[someone321]

You are definitely not alone

[Rainbowfairy]

Thank you Someone, that's good to know.

I'm just hoping there'll be others willing to dialogue on this, or others who can share how they have overcome it.

It's a strange one, I lived with it for so long, thinking it wasn't a problem, until recently. When I realised I have never had a sexual experience without them. I want to know what real sexual connection with another human being is like. I can't die having never experienced this.

[bigjellybelly]

hugs to you.

I had a similar - if not exactly the same revelation recently. I don't have anything to offer on how to overcome it, because like you I am still working on it... Other than that I now try very hard to be completely present while I am in a sexual situation with my lovely man instead of dissociating and going off into that strange head space that has been habitual for so long (thankfully he is very patient, a very assured lover, and knows that there is stuff going on with me).

I am analytical and pragmatic, so my responses may not suit everyone, but I found this very uncomfortable topic easier to approach from the fantasy angle than from the recovering from abuse angle in terms of the psychology of why those things appeal to you (even though you know why in a sense) which then allows a more frank and open examination for yourself of what is actually enjoyable to you and what is a survival mechanism associated with your abuse. It's a journey though, and a very private one at that.

[Rainbowfairy]

Thank you for responding Bigjellybelly.

I understand your approach, however, I am under no illusions as to how and why this operates in me - I know that its purpose is to absolve me of any responsibility for being a sexual being because of the shame I carry from the psychological aspects of the abuse ("I'll kill you and your brother if you tell anyone" is as much a shame-maker as it is a fear-maker), but also there is a clear association with pleasure-pain, and also I am desensitised to "normal" sex, because I was accustomed to it being so overwhelming and all encompassing - what I am struggling with is how to perform sexually without it. I don't have any secrets from myself, I assure you of that.

The best I have come up with so far is a complete abstinence from orgasm. Orgasm is a reward in the brain, if that reward is associated with an abusive fantasy then it will reinforce the fantasy. So I think I need to break the association between orgasm-fantasy first. Then, I can focus on being in my body and with my partner.

This makes sense in theory, but I don't know if it'll work. I'd be interested to hear how you are working with it, but I understand if you're not comfortable sharing here.

[Autumndancer]

you are not alone.

[Rainbowfairy]

Thank you Autumndancer, I appreciate that.

[Autumndancer]

I wonder if possibly it stems from being taught that the only worth I have as a human being is that of being sexual in nature. The abuse was not only incest from the age of 4, continuing through til I ran away from home at 15, it was also abuse from my narcissistic mother whose only path in life was all about her. The only attention I got was from the incest. The thing I learned was that my worthiness centered around what I could give my father sexually.

As an adult healthy relationships proved impossible. I accepted (and even sought out) relationships and situations that involved abuse...it was the only way I knew to feel as though I was worthy.

I don't know how to break the cycle...even now in when I am in the most healthy relationship I have ever had...I find myself going into that well ingrained default mode. It breaks my heart when I allow myself to think of the horrendous damage done to us.

[BeingSomeoneElse]

Though you term it as fantasy, Rainbowfairy, it is just an association I believe that our mind does. I was abused by five people who had easy access to me at an age I didnt know that it was abuse. it took a long time for me to accept that there was nothing I could have really done about it because I was too young to understand and defend myself.

but it did cause me to dissociate love and sex. I was alright with casual relationships because for me, it just became something which people did. for all the **** life put me through (strict violent dominating father and a weak submissive mother, inability to make friends, trying to protect my younger siblings), sex was just a hormone rush for me. but my tinybsilver lining came from the supposed hook up who ended up being my boyfriend for 7 years now. and that was when it started. it wasnt just sex. it was love making. and each time I get an image of abuse in my head, I would still push on for his sake and get sick to my stomach later. I still remember breaking down and talking about it for the first time ever. I had access to so many magazines and tv shows confirming to me that I was the victim and I shouldnt feel guilty that I just never talked about it (in fact it was a tv show that taught me the concept of child abuse). my guy held me the entire time i cried and didnt say a word (even when I accused him of not being just a hook up).

and no matter how much he tries, he can probably never understand it. but he tries to support me as much as he can. when you're in love, its not just sex. its the foreplay, its the mood, its the stupid giggling which we can never associate with what happened. if my guy gets the slightest signal that my mind is veering off, he backs off. and he almost gets it right everytime. I think that really helps. having somebody who loves you and doesnt see you as an object really helps. looking into his eyes helps (I remember keeping my eyes tightly shut because I was coaxed into being very quiet).

I have been with him for 7 years and my mind still veers off. I'm not saying falling in love is the solution. but trying to reinforce it to yourself that what happened during the abuse was just molestation or sex..... it was only physical..... and what you as an adult would choose would be making love which is a connection. even if your mind veers off before or during, the easiest way to dissociate is to talk to your partn

I know its long but hope it helps!

[bigjellybelly]

If abstinence from orgasm works for you and if that's the bit that needs 're-programming' then its worth a try... In my case, I stopped worrying about whether that happened or not - that was the part where the images or words would be in my mind, and I ended up thinking I would rather not 'get there' at all, call it short or just enjoy it without climax and be present the whole time than 'get there' with that in my mind, so I guess it's the same thing as what you are suggesting only I didn't think of it that way!! I felt like even in the most intimate of moments, I was hiding what was in my mind from him, and I almost felt disrespectful to him being like that.

But that is quite specific and in general, I think of it all as more of a slow, systematic, non-linear process of slowly disentangling your own sexual identity from the role of the victim or the object, including all the affection and the other physical interaction around it (but not always managing to disentangle it like others have said). We've all been taught that our worth is wrapped up with our sexual performance, in literal ways and in underlying and deep-rooted ways, and Like Autumn I've sought out these either very ungratifying or downright abusive or exploitative relationships because of not knowing any other way to be. It's easy to see it in the much more positive relationship I'm in now, but I just can't believe that I have been having such bad sex my whole life (!) - not just bad as in not enjoyable, but bad as in bad for me emotionally because of the associations, destructive, extractive, and so on. And I thought that was, as the previous poster said, just what people did... It is almost like seeing in colour instead of black and white...

But I don't know, I'm still learning about how to do this properly and not lapse into that strange head space or performance mode. It's a tough job... Sometimes it works and sometimes not.

[ThisWayOut]

Definitely not alone. I've only recently figured this out about myself. I did find one helpful blog about it, but it's an older blog. I think the article I can think of is something about masturbation as self harm, but she had other articles and blog entries linked. I wish I could remember the site, or at least link it from my phone, but it doesn't like the forums that much.

[Rainbowfairy]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I don't feel so alone on this now I know there are others. I have only just told my partner and my therapist, it has been the hardest one to tell, so very lonely until you all replied.

The presence of a validating, loving, non-objectifying relationship makes sense as a supporting factor. I am lucky to, like others, after yonks of shallow, abusive, or body-based relationships, have finally made a healthy choice of partner and relationship. So, I have that in place. I am on top of most of my MH symptoms through therapy (which terminates in August). So, I feel my life conditions are right for digging this one up.

When I talked about abstinence from orgasm, I only meant for as long as it takes for the association between orgasm and abuse to be broken. See, orgasm was very important to my abuser, (although most of the time it was quite painful for me - my body was too wee to handle such big sensation) it was a clear indication for him that he had the ultimate control over my body. So this is another reason why I think it would be helpful to break the abuse-orgasm association. I have tried in the past to just "push away" the abuse movie in my head, but then I am so up in my head, wrestling with the movie that I lose sensation in my body and don't orgasm anyway.

So, what I have decided to do is this: during sexual activity, when the movie starts I will not fight it, but I will not allow myself to orgasm while it is playing, I'll do something else that doesn't lead there until it stops. When it goes away without me having to wrestle, I will allow myself to re-engage in all activities again, and repeat this until (hopefully) the association lessens. That's the theory.

Does anyone think that starting a journal thread for how this is going for me might be helpful - for all of us?

[ThisWayOut]

I think that would be great if it works. I have not been able to separate the two associations, and it's really messing with my marriage. Have you found the "movies" being able to end without orgasm and not come back if you try again? Sorry if this is too personal. I can't seem to get to that point myself. If I manage to stop the movie, I can't orgasm... I've been trying to untangle it, but I don't know how. So if you end up figuring it out, I'd be interested in hearing it. Even my therapist hasn't been successful in helping me untangle it.

[Rainbowfairy]

Dear Thiswayout,

if I end the movie, I end any potential for orgasm - it seems they share a strong pathway. I cannot recall one incidence of one without the other.

I am sorry you are struggling with this too, and kudos for taking it into therapy - that was a very hard thing (for me anyway) to tell - I was/am so ashamed. I "know" I have nothing to be ashamed about though.

I really think it could work - it makes sense with how the brain works - I'm not a neuro-anything, but I do know that pathways that are used regularly strengthen, and those that are not weaken. I think we could view a pathway as an association from A to B. A = movie, B = orgasm. That's probably oversimplified, but that is my thinking.

OK, I think I will start a journal about this, so that if it works, others can try it too. I just need to make a quit day. I have already told my partner I'm doing this and he is supportive. Right I'll start today.

The journal will be called Rainbowfairy vs. ASF (Abusive Sexual Fantasies). I'll keep it in this forum, and I'll update progress on there.

[Rainbowfairy]

I am providing the link to my journal thread, so that those who wish to follow and/or comment on the journey can do so:

http://forums.psychcentral.com/survi...ry-vs-asf.html

[bigjellybelly]

Thanks rainbow.

I think this all sounds very sensible and I'm really glad your partner is on board with it all, and that you are in a healthier relationship. And I know what you mean about ending up in your head fighting with the movie. That's a really good characterisation of it actually. I have had one without the other, but only occasionally - it took me by surprise actually - and then I tend to try so hard to get that moment back again that, well, as you can imagine it ruins it somewhat.

So, good luck!

[Rainbowfairy]

Originally Posted by bigjellybelly

Thanks rainbow.

I think this all sounds very sensible and I'm really glad your partner is on board with it all, and that you are in a healthier relationship. And I know what you mean about ending up in your head fighting with the movie. That's a really good characterisation of it actually. I have had one without the other, but only occasionally - it took me by surprise actually - and then I tend to try so hard to get that moment back again that, well, as you can imagine it ruins it somewhat.

So, good luck!

I totally understand. Thank you for wishing me luck.

[Perna]

If you can stop the story, I would instead morph it into something else rather than mess with my body's actions using my head. That is sort of what happened in the first place? I don't know that we can turn our "feelings"/responses on and off like that using our head (or want to). Yes, deep breathing is good is one is anxious and panting but I don't think we would want to take over being charge of our breathing entirely to combat anxiety?

I know I had wholly mechanistic sexual fantasies and gradually added people to them in more natural ways, just changing what I chose to fantasize about rather than mess with my body's response. It took therapy to make that likely/possible and lots of time, since my previous fantasies had been reinforced over lots of time. I would not want to give in to the abusive sexual fantasy's alleged "power" by "punishing" myself with not feeling good/no orgasm? They are all my fantasies and I will always support myself. They were helpful to me at one time and would like to work on changing them out for others now, is how I'd view it.

[Rainbowfairy]

Dear Perna,

thank you for your insightful post. I actually didn't consider that some may not be able to turn off their feelings and sensations, as I have done it for so long.
I really like your idea of morphing the movie into a more healthier experience, I think that's a great option for those wanting to try a less disruptive route. I don't think that fantasy is a bad thing - as such - I just don't want it myself, I don't think fantasy is healthy for me at all. I believe my growth is in being in my body - I spend enough time in my head, and I know I am missing bodily experiences that would help me feel connected and grounded.

I also appreciate your alternative view of refusing/accepting orgasm. That's very interesting for me, as orgasm was never really a reward tbh, it was an expectation (from my abuser), and as an adult, it has always been something I have given to (or not given to) a partner, rather than something that is pleasurable for me, because it simply wasn't that pleasurable afterwards when I'm crawling out my skin with shame, on the verge of tears, and frankly, feeling raped due to what I just participated in in my head.

See, I think I have to remove orgasm in its current capacity (which is so distressing I do not perceive it as "punishment") in order to bring it back and experience it as both mine and rewarding.

And as the next post in my journal will illustrate, this journey has not been as arduous or long as I thought it would be.