Bipolar delusions

Well, I guess time will tell us the answer. I wish someone could tell me exactly what to do. Do I secretly send her a link to this forum, what do I do. I keep telling myself that it wasn't her and I truely believe that. How does one effectively communicate with a partner who is delusional.

This is not the first time this has happenend to her. I found a note from one of her old boyfriend's, it was clear that they were going down a path similar to this one. I think that as the person gets older and remains without treatment, the cycles become more frequent and more serious. I don't know if that is true or not.

I have a hard time accepting the notion that she has to take responsibility for her actions. If she was in a totally delusional state, what fault does she have. I guess trying to apply logical reasoning to an illogical situation does not work.

I feel like I am in the back seat of an out of control car. I suppose it is fair to say that part of the peril is not being able to regain control. I don't mean controlling her or her disease. I mean controlling my own life. This mess is real but, what she did was a bi-product of her disease. It is really hard to seperate between the two.

I'm a bit confused. Has your wife been in a full blown manic episode since you've met her? If that isn't the case and you have been with her for a length of time she will not be in a bipolar episode continuously. When unmedicated the episodes can last longer for some, but for some of us (myself included) there are times of stability, depression and hypomania. They can all be at varying degrees, but I have always been able to feel love for someone (prior to being diagnosed and now diagnosed and on medication). For me being on medication has made the episodes even shorter and less severe.

I would suggest seeing a therapist. You have gone through a traumatic episode and may benefit from speaking to a mental health professional about it. The therapist may also have some suggestions on how you can support your wife while still maintaining boundaries.

I have a hard time accepting the notion that she has to take responsibility for her actions. If she was in a totally delusional state, what fault does she have. I guess trying to apply logical reasoning to an illogical situation does not work.

I am sorry for everything you are going through. My husband is bi-polar but thankfully nowhere near as severe as your wife. I do however have a hard time understanding why she shouldn't be held accountable for her actions. Am I wrong in thinking this? I don't mean to be cold, but reading all your posts.. wow... your wife needs serious help, but she needs to take responsibility for what she's done. She shouldn't be sitting on a couch getting stoned with her son if that's the case.

I'm sorry to those with bi-polar if I am coming off as insensitive. Should someone with this disease be able to behave this way without fault? I realize that she is being brought up on charges, but I guess I just have a real hard time understanding.

So has she ever been "normal" or are the patterns of behavior always present?

I have a hard time accepting the notion that she has to take responsibility for her actions. If she was in a totally delusional state, what fault does she have. I guess trying to apply logical reasoning to an illogical situation does not work.

Everybody has to take responsibility of their actions... you cannot baby her forever and shoulder consequences of her behavior. You cannot let her take you down with her... you are responsible for your own life and well being only.

blueoctober and venus are right - and part of the healing comes from understanding the disease and taking charge of those things you have control over. It also means learning to let go of what you don't have control over.
Trying to figure out how long she's been this way really doesn't help. There is no predictable progression of the disease, so understanding the past isn't going to help you help her.
I was diagnosed at 52, one of my sisters was diagnosed in her 20's. She's in much worse shape than I am. In order to know how to cope, you have to educate yourself. Here is a link to a website of a psychiatrist who has spent years researching BP: www.psycheducation.org There are lots of other resources, too.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but people here have been trying to tell you things you can do. It seems like maybe you're waiting for someone to give you answers that you like. You can send her a link to this forum, but from the way it sounds, that would be putting a bandaid on a broken leg.
Here's where I would suggest that your thinking is emotional rather than logical. Being responsible for consequences doesn't mean that she is a responsible person, but it can mean that you try to protect her from consequences because it's not her fault and you don't want to see her hurt more. Consequences can, and often are, catalysts for seeking help. You love her, so you want to help her. But sometimes the best way to help someone is to let them face the consequences of their actions. Because it's a byproduct of her disease doesn't take away accountability.
Consider our legal system; a mentally ill person might commit a crime and be found not-guilty by reason of insanity, but that doesn't mean they just walk free. If I have a panic attack in a store and break things in my urgent need to get out, I still have the responsibility to pay for what I broke, even tho it was my disease that caused it.

I believe you when you say you're not a quitter. I hope that you can learn ways to approach this that are beneficial for both of you. Changing your approach isn't quitting; giving yourself distance, if that's what will help, isn't quitting. Doing things the same way and expecting different results is, in the words of Benjamin Franklin, the definition of insanity.

Oh yeah, I apologize if it seems like I talk way too much, I'm riding the line between normal and hypomanic.

I wish the best for you and your wife. As you probably noticed, a whole lot of people here understand your pain and really care. Sending you peaceful, soothing vibes and a few hugs, too..

Yes she has been in full blown manic episodes before. I realize that a large part of the problem is me. I tried really hard to accept responsibility for the things she has done. I have been guilty of enabling her to continue.

There have been some really drastic cases of mania. One time, she left me in a hotel room 1,500 miles from home, without a wallet or any money. She actually made me believe that she did it for me. I remember her telling me afterwards that I needed to get over my first wifes death. I bought the explination and started doing a lot of reading about PTSD. I even went to a counselor and did so for several months.

She too was in therapy but, she denied her illness. Every time there was a manic blow up she pointed the finger at me. She was really good at playing hide and seek and making me believe that I was the cause of her episodes. I guess, in a way, I just couldn't risk the idea that I was part of the cause.

As time went on, I learned much more about her. She is the most loveable person I ever met until the mania sets in. Then its every man for themself and God help the one that her focus is on. It hasn't always been me.

Her family is very small, both parents are dead, one of her two brothers is dead and the other is OCD. She has another brother who fled the US and lives somewhere in Costa Rica. Both of her kids are suffering. Her daughter has been in and out of institutions for some time now. Her son, is also showing all the signs of the illness.

Her support group consist of people who are also in denial about their illness.

I have been with her for just over three years. I can't count the number of times she went into uncontrollable mania. I tried my best to blame it on her self medicating. I am not innocent here. I knew something was wrong, I chose to address the thinkable rather than the unthinkable.

There does not seem to be any kind of answer available. I can't talk to her and she has made no effort to contact me. I see a counselor on Tuesday, mean while, I have legal aide tomorrow. All they want to do is file for divorce for me. I guess no body understands that I love her and don't want to lose her.

Maybe I have a serious problem. To endure what I have to be with this women is crazy. But, for some reason, I just can't get enough and just don't want to stop trying. The biggest obstacle is her delusional state. I can only think of a couple of times when she actually acknowledged that something was wrong.

What would you tell a 52 year old unemployed guy who is madly in love with a mentally ill person. What advice could you offer me. I have lost all I have and I really don't feel motivated to do anything about it. I guess that is depression.

My suggestion is to look into available therapy for yourself. If you're unwell helping your wife will be nearly impossible. I'm not sure where you live, but there are options for little to no cost therapy, but it will take effort to locate it. My suggestion would be to do a search on the internet. If you live in the US you may want to look at this website http://www.nami.org/

Hope that helps.

I always love the autonomy argument. We are held responsible to the extent we can be. If someone is mentally ill, then there accountability is reduced by their ability to understand and their ability to control their actions.

Thanks again, I meet my court appointed counselor on Tuesday of next week. That would be right after another hearing about where she is. I absolutely can not believe the amount of trouble she is in and the amount of damage that has been done. Do you think she will ever come out of it?

You are absolutely correct, I think. I have been trying to find an answer that does not exist. I can’t take control or responsibility for the things she has done or the disease she has. I guess I am hoping that someone will tell me that when she comes out of the delusional state, she will realize what she has done and just how far she has gone. So far, no one has told me that.
For someone like me, answers are critical. I would guess that if she knew what she did, she would be doing all she could to at least mitigate the damage. That has not happened and that is a problem for me. You are correct in everything you say. I am acting like a big baby that needs to grow up.

Malappi I'm the same way. I'm a very logical person, and when I was first diagnosed I wanted the A, B, C's of what to do. My pdoc couldn't give me that because everyone experiences this illness differently. This is why no one can give you an answer about what your wife will or won't remember. Each person is different and each person experiences bipolar in a different way.

Well, first of all my name is Michael and thank-you Beth for all of your support. Non of this should come as a surprise for me. I have been dealing with it for three years and I think I always knew that there was a great deal of potential for all of this to happen.

In the beggining, she told me it was menopause and she did seem to be having problems with that. Thinking about it, I think that for the most part, there was always some form of trigger that set her off. It was weird, I could actually tell a day or two before she would go off on me. This time it had to be her daughter and her condition coupled with a lot of grief from her son.

So when ever she would have a small rise in tension or stress she would go off. Normally, it would take about a week to ten days before she would all of a sudden just act like nothing had happenend. I could come home and expect a vile person and there would be a beautiful lady cooking a great meal. Naturally that would lead to the bedroom and everything would be fine. I would just shake my head and say what just happened.

I don't know about all of this Beth. I think if I gave up I would hate myself yet every indication is that she is not going to change. Maybe she is not bipolar maybe, its something else. The delusions her daughter goes into are way out there. That poor kid will be absolutely lost. I mean she would have these crazy ideas and wild thoughts coupled with the delusions of who people actually are. She couldn't tell you who you are, she would have no idea.

I keep reading all this stuff and learning from the people here. I have not seen anyone post behaviour like that. When my wife would lose it, she really lost it. This 5'5" women could turn into an animal in seconds flat. One thing that I have always noticed is a change in her eyes. Normally she has really deep color but they really subtle to look at. When she goes into one of these phases, her eyes get buggy. They get real bright, almost glassy like.

I have not read that in the bipolar forums. What do you think?

That you have just described me perfectly, that's what. 5'5" and thin. People who've never witnessed it would not believe in a million years what I'm capable of. Normally, I'm either quiet and just a bit odd or joking around a bit of a weird way (especially when hypomanic, my brain's just making these super-fast leaps of divergent ideas that no one can keep up with. They think I'm weird, I think they are slow of mind...). But when the lightning bolt hits? O.M.G. STAND BACK. Things fly, things slam, things get broken. I've bitten my ex in the collar bone, slashed up the kitchen table, bent expensive hard tempered steel tools, to name only a very few... you get the picture. It gets UGLY. Ferocious? Oh yes.
Seconds flat? It's not even that. It is like a white hot lightning bolt and control is completely lost. Count to 10???!!! As IF! I have no control whatsoever at that point. Meds have helped. I still lose it, but not so frequently or so thoroughly. (Recognizing potential triggers has helped too.)
Regret? You better believe it. I am positively mortified at what happens at those times. In the moment, I can't stop it, though I wish with a thousand wishes that I could. Later... the guilt, the remorse, the self-loathing? Oh yes.

Animalistic? me too

I'm tiny, 1.5 meters and only weigh 45kgs but when I lose it, the incredible hunk can go jump in a lake...

I've stabbed 2 people ( not my proudest moments, but I was provoked) Luckily no charges were pressed. I've torn up my room to get rid of the rage, I've beaten up my brother, and got into random fights over the last ten years...

Normally, I'm an outgoing friendly 26 year old woman, thank God for meds, I haven't been enraged for quite some time

Embarrassment toward my behavior? definitely, especially since I get the details elsewhere b/c I tend to black out when enraged. Remorse? Yes!

Your wife is not alone, there are those of us who understand, I hope she gets the help she needs and deserves, you guys deserve to be happy...

I am very sorry for you. This has to be one of lifes most impossible adventures. Was there a time when you were not medicated, do you have clear recall of those times. Did you single out those close to you or was it just random. If, in her case, stress is truely a trigger, what would be your guess as to what will happen next. She is undoubtedly under severe stress, do you think she has at least momentary recall of events.

I am so sorry for you too. There is a message I would like to send to everyone who suffers from this disease and that is: regardless of what you did or said, there are still those of us who truely love you.

Sounds like me to a T also...I am unmedicated (can't afford insurance atm), and stress is a big factor for me and unfortunately the smallest things annoy me, things that shouldn't even annoy me do...and I hate it. But when I lose it, I lose it...sometimes I remember and sometimes I recall whatever happened different than those who heard/witnessed (usually just family because I try to avoid people, I'm embarrassed enough acting that way around my own family). I also go from 1 extreme to the other, and say very mean hateful things that I do not mean, screaming, hitting, throwing etc...and don't usually remember saying/doing afterward. During those times it helps if spouse doesn't say stuff to trigger even worse behavior. Mine has a tendency to forget that I am bipolar and he will say things that set me off even worse, ie: "





'It's all in your head.'
'You could feel better if you wanted to.'
'You don't need all those medications.'
'There's no such thing as mental illness.'
'You're just being lazy.'
'If you loved me, you wouldn't act this way.'
'You could change it if you really want to.'
'You are what you think you are.' (says this alot and says "I" am making myself worse by thinking this way)
'There's nothing wrong with you.'
'You do it to yourself.'
What's your problem?'
'You just want attention.'
'You don't 'look' depressed.'
Are you on your period?
'You'd feel better if you would stop going to see all these shrinks and throw away those pills.'

Sometimes, I feel so bad for him and his kids (my step-kids) and think they'd be better off without me...but I also don't want to be alone!

I've read this entire thread and it seems to me that you keep asking what you should do and when people give you advice you don't like you dismiss it. Look, this woman cost you your job, she obviously physically assaulted you, she is no where to be found and hasn't bothered to contact you. None of that sounds like love to me. You need to get your life back together. Go get a new job, maybe meet a woman you don't have to take care of constantly. Your first wife died of cancer and you said you took care of her the entire time. Now this wife is bi-polar and you are contantly taking care of her. Take care of yourself for once.
I also get the impression that you are an enabler and actually like the drama so telling you to move on will fall on deaf ears.
Seriously, move on.

However the post above is harsh...the poster makes valid point about enabling. I'll be the last person to force anybody into treatment if they can deal with their life at least on some level... but your wife is not able to. You worry about how she will feel... and from how it sounds you probably tell her she is poor thing and none of it is her fault... and life goes on until the next episode. Why would she work on herself (hard work) when there is not reason... she can go follow her urges and there will be someone to bail her out always...

People who are bipolar are not out of their minds ALL the time and at some time, you need to take responsibility, not rush through life ruining others... Illness is not excuse. One needs to takes responsibility for their actions and their life. End of.

This is a bit harsh.The shreds of truth are easily dismissible because the delivery is coming from a place of exasperation. Do you know in therapy when addressing an abuser you have to let them play a victum role FIRST. You have to validate their feelings before you can move on to actual accountability, understanding power and control before you can even begin to help them.

While he is asking for "answers" what i generally get from the thread is he is looking for support. Who hasn't made bad choices, who hasn't been in a bad relationship, when your in that spot it's overwhelming and people telling you to "leave them" just makes you more frustrated because they seem not to understand how you can love someone fully...even while they beat you mercilessly.If he were really looking for answers...he would take the answers given...however this is a learning and support forum..so offering glib advice such as "get over it"....is useless and ...even i would go so far as to say inappropriate. He is looking for support and understanding. People with Bi-polar of all people should know...when your overwhelmed and have no idea's what to do...sometimes....you just need someone to listen..sometimes you just need to say what you feel..and sometimes that's enough.

With all that being said i'd like to direct my attention to the issue at hand, and that is the OP. People who have been abused more often then not require therapy and people who enable more often then not require therapy . The best thing you can do for both your wife and yourself is get help for yourself. This forum is a place to be supported, a place to share your feelings but it should not be used in place of a professional therapist. It should be used as a tool in conjunction with therapy.Only you can know for yourself if your ready for help...and until you are ready for help...there can be no comfort that anyone else can provide for you.

I told him to leave because she is physically abusive and has cost him his job. Would you tell a battered woman to stay with her husband because it was the alcohol or his mental illness that was causing him to hit her? Of course not. This situation goes way beyond patience and understanding. It's not being "glib" (Tom Cruise is that you?) to say things like this. I never said get over it. I was being honest. Battered women use these excuses all the time to stay with their husbands. Some of them end up dead.
And don't say "oh you just don't understand" because I do. I am married to someone who is bi-polar and I love him very much. BUT, if he ever physically hurt me, caused me to lose my job, and put me through the hell this man is going through, I'd have to let go. I love him, but I love myself too.

I can't dispute a word you said. There is no question that I enable her and have done so from the start. Yes, I probably have rescuer syndrome and yes I just want everything to be okay. I don't think the love issue you mention is apropos; I really don't know what to make of that idea. Is it fair to say that just because someone is suffering from an illness they are not worthy? See, deaf ears are hard at work. I can't tell you how much I wish it was that simple for me. But, I seriously wonder, if I were able to do what you suggest, what would be the cost to me. Would I have to abandon a part of me that makes me who I am? I actually do like myself and I can look at myself in the mirror.
As for the drama, no I dread the drama. I, like most, would much prefer to have a calm and peaceful life. Look, this is easy; I love a woman who is sick. I didn’t abandon my first wife when she was ill. That whole adventure took six weeks from the time she was diagnosed till the day she died. Now, please forgive me, I don’t want to be harsh but, advocating what you did is, at least in my mind, exactly the reason why we have a mental health crisis. Do we just give up on a person because they are sick? If that were the case people should be dying alone.
Just because she is sick does not mean I don’t love her. Love to me is real and it is genuine. Yea she hurt me a lot. She abused the living you know what out of me and yea she cost me my job and maybe my own sanity. But, she did so while in a manic delusional state of mind. I believe in autonomy; therefore, I can’t hold her accountable to any extent over and above her ability to understand the difference between right and wrong.

Actually if i was counseling a battered woman i wouldn't tell her to just "leave him", that to me is the exact same thing as telling a diabetic to just "will there blood sugar levels to be in the normal range". Also as a therapist you don't ever actually tell people what to do...you empower them to make desicions for themselves. If you step back will no emotional attachment to the situation of course it is plain to see what should be done, but you have to realize that when your in the situation..with emotions...logical thoughts are pushed to the side ALOT of the time.

While i am very pleased to hear that you would not stay with an abuser...and that you love yourself...not everyone feels that same way. From the OP's comments do you really feel like he loves himself? Do his posts seem to come even remotely from a place of self care, self esteem or love for self? Thats why i recommended therapy...and not "just leave" as advice. he is almost as unwell as her. The therapist wont start the session with.. just "leave her"...the therapist will work on the issues that cause him to want to stay with someone who is abusive.

If people responded to logical advice disregarding all their emotions sure it would be alot easier to help people...but it just is not reality. It never has been the case..nor has it ever been the case.

I think you need to talk to her, gently but firmly... that you cannot tolerate this forever. That she needs to take charge of her destiny... be there for her, but do not enable her in her behaviour... she may not be that delusional as you believe... she may or may not... if you are willing to forgive her just because she was "delusional", it's a two edged sword. She may start putting that label on all her behavior that came from mere irresponsibility...

it is a hard situation... but I don't believe that bipolar people are controled by their illness 24/7 and can therefor get away with anything... if it has gone on for so long, in such severity... she shares the blame.

I think the operative word here is “if” he ever hurt me. If that has never happened then how do you know what you would do? I have read many posts from people who are part of a bipolar environment. They don’t give up on their loved ones. I said I believe in autonomy, I should also believe in indignation. Here in lies the paradox, I love a women who is sick, she hurt me very much and I am a victim of her emotional and physical abuse but, I also love her. Apparently, the answer I am looking for is “did she or does she know what she did.” Did she do the things that she did while in a delusional state of mind or was she mindful of what she was doing? If the answer is yes she knew while she was doing it, then you are absolutely correct, it is time to move on and there would be absolutely nothing wrong with me exercising my right to self-righteous indignation. If that is the case then I should just get mad and this would all be just a bad dream. No one, including me, could fault me if I buried her in divorce court. But, what if she didn’t know what she was doing?