[Beana77]

I have my own issues...I have bipolar disorder with borderline traits. Over a year ago I joined a mental health support forum to gain some insight into my problems and offer support to others when I could. One of the regular posters sent me a private message and we started chatting (he's a he and I'm a she). Fast forward a year and we've been talking every day and this person is pretty much my best friend. We had our ups and downs, but overall it was safe because we live 1,200 miles apart. He has been diagnosed BPD, but I didn't find him to be that difficult to deal with. He talks about suicide a lot and needs constant stroking/reassurance, but I'm very tolerant. I accepted that our relationship was pretty one-sided because I enjoy talking to him and I feel he understands the way I think. I know I should have known that the relationship had red flags all over it, but I didnt' care.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago and we met in person for the first time after 13 months of talking every day. We had a great time and it felt like a date even though I swore I wouldn't let it go there. We had sex that night and the next day and then he cooled off and things got weird. His ten day trip ended with him saying something very hurtful and me unraveling and threatening to overdose on pills. Yes, I became the borderline. We got through that, but here's the dramatic twist - I had a miscarriage two days ago. I was stupid and told him via text message, but his response was all about him with no concern for me at all. I realized that this is always how he always responds to me when I have an issue of any kind.

I'm being forced to confront my own BPD traits while confronting his inability to have empathy. I feel completely obsessed with him and my mood depends entirely on whether I've heard from him or whether he's upset with me or not. I'm not sure what I'm looking for here, but I just think it's crazy that I was seeking support in a forum and ended up being worse off than I was before. I know I should have known it would turn out this way, but I feel completely chewed up and spit out. He was so affectionate and sweet those first few days and he really roped me in and then discarded me. He says he wants to remain friends, but I'm not sure it's healthy for us to stay in touch. I don't want to abandon him because he thinks everyone hates him (he pushes everyone away and then complains that he has nobody). I'm realizing that the only way to have a relationship with him (friendship or otherwise) is to subjugate my feelings and make it all about him all the time. I take the blame for everything and apologize constantly. I've had my grievances and my drama moments, but in the end I'm always apologizing. I have a history with cluster B types, but I thought it would be different with him because he knows he has a problem. I don't know what to do. I love him so much, but I'm so mad at myself for falling into this trap again. I feel really desperate and alone... I've put so much energy into this person that I've neglected the other people in my life that could be supporting me right now.

Where I'm at with this person (let's call him D) is confusing. We have intermittent strained contact and he has been very distant. Right now he's very mad because I told him about the miscarriage via text and he won't respond to me. I plan to try to call him later, but I'm tired of putting myself out there and getting stomped. I feel like he'll never get over the things that I've done to upset him and I can never apologize enough to satisfy him. It's soooo unlike me to swallow my true feelings and take all the blame, but I feel like I have to do it.

One example is the cause of the meltdown on his last day in town. We were walking to the train on our way to a football game. He had spent the previous night with another friend and he commented on how many hot young girls were at the bar they went to. I calmly told him I didn't want to hear about that and when he showed no awareness, I got progressively more and more upset. By the time we got to the game, I was fuming and he could feel it. He insisted that we leave at halftime because I had ruined the game for him. He was furious with me. A few days later he asked me to pay him back for the cost of the tickets to erase the awful memory and make up for ruining his childhood dream of going to a Raiders game (oh the drama). Here's the kicker - I payed him even though I was initially disgusted and offended by the request. I am in a constant state of desperation to stay in his good graces, it's embarrassing.

[Flooded]

I would be embarrassed too!

.......playing 'catch up!'...with someone naturally gifted at expressing themselves....because they (seem)..to know what they want.

my dis-order..or dis-comfort makes me look 'up' to people automatically...and after intimacy I am like a slave if they are so damn cold!

my needs are never met while I meet their freakin' needs...apart from that I have maybe done something to get approval

some relationships are very damaging...beyond the obvious stuff of violence and such....it's the passive injuries we receive...and there is no way to express the pain because it is continuous and the cause is also continuous!

the cycle must be broken...

love can be distorted and it's not.'loving' them.....more like loving what I want from them cos I need it..

there is perhaps 'good' in everybody?

but often we make people good by letting them 'suck' the goodness out of us....which we need very much

j

[summeryoga]

Aww, honey ... You know he is toxic, and you know he is too sick to love you the right ways, and you know you have already given him too much of yourself. Talk to your (or find a) therapist, cut him out of your life (his issues and reactions are his and you are not responsible for his health or happiness, blahblahblah). You know all of this; otherwise you would not have posted here, yes? Get healthy, work on that self esteem of yours pronto, use this as a low point from which you can jump up and climb high. If I can find a healthy spouse after dozens of extremely dysfunctional romances, trust me, anyone can get healthy and find a good man. They are out there, but none will come to you if your door is closed ...

[SunAngel]

Sweetie, you have to let him go. You are walking on egg shells with him and that's not healthy.

Never pay him for anything again. You are being treated very badly here and he is very toxic to you, and very controlling.

I understand that you care for him very much, but you are not showing any pride here. Be proud of yourself and don't chase losers like he is.

FORGET HIM AND JUST LET HIM GO, PLEASE!!!

I hate the fact that you are going against your little voice telling you that you really shouldn't be doing what you're doing. Never go against that little voice or gut feeling because it will just make yourself sick.

He is 100% toxic to you, and I really hope you can find some pride and take care of YOU!!!

[unaluna]

Dubblemonkey - pl3ase don't take this wrong way - but when did you get so smart?!!! wow. what you said is just so right on.

beana - i'm so sorry you met up with this person. you really do deserve so much better than this evil.

I agree with the others you need to let this guy go, sounds like he is dragging you down.

Originally Posted by hankster

Dubblemonkey - pl3ase don't take this wrong way - but when did you get so smart?!!! wow. what you said is just so right on.

.

thanks matey...

I reckon we are all pretty smart...our minds are like magnificent machines...the thinking we do?...the doubts!...

all the doubting myself and my world made me a bit smart I guess...

(hehe...still doubting)

we are each and everyone pretty 'switched on'

[mysunshine]

He sounds like he's not capable of giving you any support and doesn't have that ability yet to be in a relationship. Inside he probably knows this and his seemingly cold, self centred behaviour is his way of telling you this.
He really sounds like he needs to help himself much more, before he will be able to have a healthy relationship with anyone.

[Beana77]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I haven't figured out how to receive notifications via email so I didn't know anyone had replied until I just checked.

On Wed we talked briefly (he was drunk) and he asked that we wait until the weekend to talk. I texted him on Thursday and asked why we have to wait until the weekend to talk. He replied on Fri, "because I'm really busy and some people don't respect me time...". Wow. I didn't respond, so a few hours later he texted me and said "now is a good time if you want to talk". I didn't call which for me is a huge victory. I also didn't want him to know that once again I had no plans on a Friday night. It feels like I'm playing a game, but I hate that everything is always on his terms. I suppose I need to talk to him about the miscarriage at some point. There isn't really anything to say.... he wasn't available when I was going through it, so why should I care that he's now "making time" to talk about it. Of course I shouldn't have told him via text, but come on... have some perspective on the situation buddy.

So... I'm not ready to walk away completely yet, but I need to send a message that I can't be treated this way. I think I mentioned that my therapist thinks he's a narcissist. Is it common for narcissists to be misdiagnosed with BPD or is it just that narcissism can be a part of BPD?

[FooZe]

Hi Beana77, welcome to Psych Central!

Originally Posted by Beana77

I haven't figured out how to receive notifications via email so I didn't know anyone had replied until I just checked.

Does this help? Community Feedback & Technical Support > Tutorials & How-To's > Subscribing to Threads You're Interested in Following

Is it common for narcissists to be misdiagnosed with BPD or is it just that narcissism can be a part of BPD?

I'm not a mental health professional but from what I've read, some authors such as Otto Kernberg consider the two conditions to be closely related.

[Beana77]

Thanks FooZe. I thought I had already chosen the default subscribe option, but I still didn't get an email. Hmm. Maybe I didn't save.

I will check out Otoo Kernberg, thanks.

[athena2011]

Hi Beana,
Narcissist sounds about right. My experience and what I've read are that we are 'people pleasers'. We bend over backwards for people even if they abuse us - just to avoid rejection and abandonment. He sounds like he doesn't really care if you call or not. Sounds like he could take it or leave it. And he is most definitely NOT a people pleaser. I have incredible empathy for others. It appears you do too. He obviously doesn't know what the word means. Why would he get diagnosed BPD? Well, some BPDs act out, ie: going into a rage over the smallest things because it triggers a horrible memory. Maybe he's an acting-out type. Or he could have PTSD. I had a similar experience to yours with a guy who most definitely had that. Hmmm. Maybe that's the link. There's this thing called complex PTSD or C-PTSD. It is like PTSD except that the trauma is ongoing and recurring. It has been suggested that BPD be renamed C-PTSD. That makes a lot of sense to me. Lots of mini ongoing traumas which play out time and time again over a lifetime with all your significant relationships.

Anyway, this is all starting to sound a little like alphabet soup. Bottom line - steer clear of this guy. He will destroy you.

[Beana77]

It's really fascinating because I posted in psychforums about this, and the advice is really different. It's similar in that I'm being warned that this person may chew me up and spit me out, but it's less of a "steer clear no matter what" message. Part of me thinks that if I can just detach emotionally and put him in a different category in my mind, I can maintain a friendship. I will give myself another two weeks and see how I feel. It's so difficult for me to walk away from people. I hate being abandoned so much that I can't bear to do it to others.

[roads]

Originally Posted by Beana77

I'm not sure it's healthy for us to stay in touch.

Please imagine every emergency vehicle (fire engine, police car, ambulance) in your county bearing down on your building, lights & sirens going. They surround you, and the officials driving them all speak to you over hand-held loud speakers

"Beana! It's not healthy!"

[Aslan]

Well written piece, you have alot in common with this guy.
Maybe im wrong.

[Beana77]

roadrunner - I love that. It's hard to be in denial with that visual!

athena - I do wonder about his diagnosis sometimes. He has some of the neediness when he's in a crisis, but his ability to disconnect and detach in the face of my need, is baffling to say the least. I used to think I understood him, but now I honestly don't know what goes on in that head of his. He can be cruel in a way that I can't even imagine. He was supposed to call me today and... nothing. We still haven't talked about the miscarriage. Crazy. I know men deal with things like this differently, but it really seems like he doesn't care at all. I can't wrap my brain around that.

[kaliope]

Beana
Everything in your post youre talking about how bad you know this relationship is for you and how hurt you are being by it. So listen to that. If it helps, remember it is your own BPD traits that are keeping you tied to this guy.

You know what the healthy choice is.
You owe him nothing. All he has done it hurt you. Do you really want to set yourself up for more hurt?

Hang in there. Hugs

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by kaliope

Beana
Everything in your post youre talking about how bad you know this relationship is for you and how hurt you are being by it. So listen to that. If it helps, remember it is your own BPD traits that are keeping you tied to this guy.

You know what the healthy choice is.
You owe him nothing. All he has done it hurt you. Do you really want to set yourself up for more hurt?

Hang in there. Hugs

Thanks kaliope. I know you're right, I just don't know how to walk away. I think he's probably going to make that choice for the both of us because he's tired of my neediness. I no longer serve a purpose for him, so he's throwing me away. As one poster in another forum said, my value to him is as a slave and follower, nothing more. Once I show my own need and start making demands of any kind, I am no longer useful.

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Beana77

athena - I do wonder about his diagnosis sometimes. He has some of the neediness when he's in a crisis, but his ability to disconnect and detach in the face of my need, is baffling to say the least. I used to think I understood him, but now I honestly don't know what goes on in that head of his. He can be cruel in a way that I can't even imagine. He was supposed to call me today and... nothing. We still haven't talked about the miscarriage. Crazy. I know men deal with things like this differently, but it really seems like he doesn't care at all. I can't wrap my brain around that.

In one of the "Emotional Intelligence" books it talks about mens' propensity for stonewalling. The less in touch with and the less comfortable they are with their emotions, the worse the stonewalling. Could be some of that going on. I just got dumped by a guy who I admit the relationship was deteriorating with - but a couple of weeks ago, he just upped and cut off all contact. Phone, cellphone, e-mail - everything. Stonewalling in the extreme. When I think back on it, he couldn't express an emotion - positive or negative - if his life depended on it. His parents never did anything but fight. I guess he's decided to never ever go there, just vanish in order to avoid it. I will have to thank him for doing me a favour and showing me his true nature before I wasted too much time on him. The guy before that did something almost as bad but was able to freely express his rage when he wanted, which was becoming a daily occurrence. Both started out wonderfully. But both had PTSD, the first from taking a bullet in a war zone, the second from torture. I am happy to get dumped by guys like that. Here's how you create that scenario: tell him YOUR problems for a little while. That will send him packing and you can be rid of him guilt free!

PS: Personality disorders take YEARs to fix and that's IF the person is willing to change (Narcissists typically aren't). An extremely patient, extremely well adjusted individual with an ability to protect her own boundaries and with just the right amount of masochism may be able to help these men, but if that doesn't describe you, leave it up to the professionals. I spent almost 20 years with a narcissist. I was generous, kind, polite, caring, put out for him, then finally he scammed me into supporting him. I realize I didn't help him at all. I enabled his mean, rude, leeching, manipulative, abusive behaviour. He just about buried me. Well....the jury's still out on that one - he's still trying.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Beana77

Part of me thinks that if I can just detach emotionally and put him in a different category in my mind, I can maintain a friendship... It's so difficult for me to walk away from people. I hate being abandoned so much that I can't bear to do it to others.

I know (or maybe just vividly imagine ) what you mean. This is probably just me, but I hate making decisions based on "someone told me it was a good idea". To me, an informed choice includes having a sense of what's likely to happen if I do A, what's likely to happen if I do B, how I typically react when either one happens... and how willing I am to invite it to happen and see if I can find other ways to respond.

For me, a good reason for staying away from someone would be: I can count on them to do stuff I find it hard to deal with; I've considered working through my reaction to whatever it is they do, seeing what's on the other side of it, and learning from the experience whatever I learn; even though I see benefits to doing that, it still doesn't seem worth the trouble.

A not quite so good reason, to me at least, would be: I hate it when they do whatever they do; they're not willing to stop and I can't make them; I don't want to put up with it; so for my own protection I'm outta there.

I don't like giving up on somebody. When it looks like it's not going to work out and I've invested as much as I'm willing to, it's actually kind of convenient when they decide to leave first.

[Beana77]

In order to have any kind of relationship with him, I have to tailor my expectations to what he's capable of. He hasn't shown that he's capable of validating my emotions, so I need to determine if that's something I can tolerate. I did it for a year, and everything changed when we had sex. My post-intimacy vulnerability and neediness put the spotlight on his limitations, as it often does.

Today I acknowledged that I've been placing unrealistic expecations on him. He may be insulted by the way I phrased it, but it's the truth. Time will tell if we can survive this and if enough time passes, I may move past caring. Right now I still care, but I feel less desperate and needy for a call or a text. That's huge for me.

Thanks everyone!

[Beana77]

Is this one of those forums that subtly punishes you if you don't heed advice or follow the party line? Not a judgment, but I've experienced that before and it didn't feel good. I know I should walk away, but it aint easy. What do I do while I decide how to proceed? Argh. I'm lost and don't know which way is up anymore. I feel more detached than before, but I don't know if I'm playing with fire. I guess I already know the answer to that...

[unaluna]

I guess I took your "thanks everyone" as a goodbye, and the rest of that post as a message that you were choosing to continue to engage in this enterprise. "Moving past caring" - per my T, Sartre may have been a great philosopher, but he was a lousy husband. Or maybe just my T is, and this boyfriend of yours. Thing is, he's not achieving the high standard he's attempting to hold you to. You do deserve better. If deserve is not in your vocabulary (it wasn't in mine), then work on that, THEN go lookin' for love. So - what was your question exactly??

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by hankster

I guess I took your "thanks everyone" as a goodbye, and the rest of that post as a message that you were choosing to continue to engage in this enterprise. "Moving past caring" - per my T, Sartre may have been a great philosopher, but he was a lousy husband. Or maybe just my T is, and this boyfriend of yours. Thing is, he's not achieving the high standard he's attempting to hold you to. You do deserve better. If deserve is not in your vocabulary (it wasn't in mine), then work on that, THEN go lookin' for love. So - what was your question exactly??

I'm not sure what my question was but thanks for the feedback! Enterprise... that's a good word to describe it. I don't know if I can move past caring, but I'm going to try. The more he shows how clueless and self-centered he can be, the easier it is to let go. If I cut off contact, I would idealize him and forget how he can be. Also, there is something emotionally charged about no contact. There is so much meaning in the silence, but there's nothing like a few lame exchanges to fan the flames and bring me back to reality. That's just how my brain works. I can't say I'll be the picture of calm and collected the first time he brings up another woman (we used to talk about dating other people before the sex). Time will tell.