[really]

To be honest I don't even know where to begin...

I'm still in the military, so I'm scared as hell about posting this...

But the fact is I've been paying for my own treatment for a while so the military won't find out, but where do you go when there's no where else left? Talking about it helps... But it's not the same as talking to others that have been there and done that... No one I know actually know, can relate to what it's like...

I've killed more people than I actually know in real life, I doubt that I've actually shaken hands with as many people as I've killed.

I drink just to sleep, but then even sleeping isn't real, because tomorrow may bring just another day of doing more of the same thing...

Since 2006 I've spent most of my days hunting for people to kill, and now here I am, praying to not have to do it again, but hoping that I will be the eye in the sky making sure that those on the ground are safe for another night...

I'm a sensor operator on the Predator, overwatching my bothers on the ground, wishing I never would have volunteered for this, knowing that tomorrow I may have to kill again, and feeling guilty for even being this messed up, since I'm not really there...

Many of those I fly with have the same issues, most leave well before I have, three years is the norm. Everyone I've talked to in confidence have nightmares, but few seek help other than the bottle.

Guilty of not doing enough in the eyes of my bothers in arms, ashamed in front of my family for having done too much. Wishing to undo everything that has been done. Wanting to not remember, to not have seen, not to have done, to have done more, to do more...

I'm a mess to be honest, moving forward ten seconds at a time, hoping no one else will notice how ****ed up I am. But my wife sees it in my eyes... From the very moment I look at her, and I fell ashamed... For not being enough... Of a man, of a soldier, of a husband, of a father....

I'm a mess, I'm just hoping that some one else sees it and knows the answer...

[bebop]

as the wife of a combat vet please don't shut your wife out. I think it is time to let your commanders know how deep this goes. it is called post traumatic stress disorder. The sooner you get help with it the better you will be. I know it is hard to talk about it. talking here is good too. I use to work with alot of vets going thru exactly what you are right now. Some people may tell you to just get over it. Ignore that because it is not possible to just forget it. You can learn ways however to deal with it but above all don't shut your wife out.

[really]

Thanks for the reply, My wife is fully aware of whats going on. See's the reason I am getting help at all, even outside of the military.

I'm trying to get another position, one that no longer involves having to deal with combat. But, as with everything in the military it takes time, and its a competitive position. I don't want to destroy my military career, but its getting harder and harder to sometimes deal even with day to day life when all you can do is remember things you want to forget that just won't go away.

[bebop]

I hear what you are saying. not sure what the military is offering the vets now that are active duty as far as help goes. is there anyone you trust to talk to about it? I am thinking future here....it needs to be documented for the future.

[wing]

Thank you for all you've done in the line of duty. You are fighting for me, my kids and my country. We owe a debt to you. Part of that is caring for you and your family. You aren't the only soldier experiencing this. I'd hope it would not stain your record to admit you've seen enough and want to come to terms with it. That takes help. It's not a weakness, it is a bona-fide condition that is directly caused by the things you've had to do.

Please take good care of yourself, and be kind to yourself as you would to any of your friends experiencing this.

I hope your transfer comes through soon. You deserve it.

[Open Eyes]

Personally I don't see how the military would think that men like you do not deal with these psychological challenges. I think that "Dont tell" agenda for real psychological
stress is blatently cruel and immoral. No one can perform in combat or be exposed to so much death without being taxed psychologically.

As a matter of fact those in the emergency resuce fields in civilian life can only last so long and just about all of them are left with a PTSD condition. There is usually a five year maximum exposure and then a turnover takes place.

There is no reason at all to be ashamed that you are human and that it weighs heavy on your ability to feel normal and have a sense of stability. And just because you have had the ability to do this doesn't mean you are immune to the feelings you have about it that you state here.

You are definitely not the first soldier to express the need for psychological help and yet a fear of expressing that need for help and how it may affect the rest of your life if you do ask for help.

No matter what life situation someone is put in there will always be a sense of should I have done more and did I do it well enough and the opportunity to be self critical.
You have done the best you could do. And the only way you can look at it is, War is definity not pleasent and one of the most horrible things engaged by man. And being involved in it does not mean you support this aspect of man. But you are there to do your best to protect the other men that trying to prevent others from being victims of some needless, unjust anayalation.

You do deserve to get whatever assistance you need to find ways to release yourself from this responsibility if you truely feel you have reached a limit in your capacity to continue this task that is extremely challenging for any human being. There is no such thing as being super human. And as long as denial is allowed to exist the truth will continue to cost many troops a right to say, I have reached my limit, done my best and now need to process and be serviced towards some kind of psychological assistance.

Troops need to come forward and demand assistance and that assistance should be provided without question or a sentence of limitations towards a goal of trying to continue to have a life that includes a right to have a different career and the support to have as much of a normal family life as possible. If you are protecting other troops in combat, you should also be able to protect their right to a life after they truely cannot perform any more combat duty. And the fear of coming forward that you are expressing here is proof that those who have the courage to offer themselves to the call of duty to serve their country, should also be truely allowed to say I can no longer serve, "Without any fear or shame of doing so".

Thank you for coming forward and telling the civilians the truth about your struggle. The only way to continue to protect the very same men that you protect in the field of battle is to do just what you are doing now. Because it is not good enough to just say "Welcome Home" or place commerative statues or symbols in honor of our troops. It is more important to make every effort to listen to our troops and make sure no troop has any sense of guilt for stating that troop's true needs.

Open Eyes

[really]

Well, got a letter today that they won't accept me for the other position... I have too much rank. I was actually willing to remove a stripe... Called the person that makes these decisions of course shes not in today, explained on voice-mail that I already knew I'd have to voluntarily be demoted, and asked her to reconsider...

The wife and I are talking about what to do now... I can't keep doing this for another 6 years until I retire, I simply won't survive mentally, my marriage won't survive that...

Nothing to do now but put a plan in place; get my records to the VA and see where things might fall...

I really don't want to leave my unit as the guy that was just to f**ked up to do it any more, but I don't see how much farther I can keep going.

(As a side note, I learned that I am the person in my squadron with the most combat flight time... More than any pilot, any other sensor, and my commanders aren't even in the same thousands of hours range... Everyone else that could be have left...)

[Crusader]

I can't even imagine. My brother was in Desert Storm. Much of what he did was classified to some degree so he never talks about it. I know he had problems. You are not alone. And having your wife to help support you is the very best thing in the world. I miss having someone to lean on when I need it. We appreciate what you have done for us and most people will never really understand how much of a sacrifice you have made. Thank you for it and I hope you get the transfer ASAP.

[todarktosleep]

"...I'm a sensor operator on the Predator, overwatching my bothers on the ground,..."

Thank you... I was one of those on the ground... You provided a sense of protection for us that should never be belittled or forgotten.

I too worried about the stigma of having PTSD, I don't know if it was because I was a medic, but I actually was surprised at how many of my guys understood and still stood by me.

I found a lot of help at the VA... I know quite a few folks have major issues with the VA but I found a lot of answers there... That's the best advice I can offer at this time.

What ever you decide to do I wish you the best and must Thank You again for your watchful eye.

[really]

Well, I talked to my commanders. They were cool about it, at least up front. They had no problem with me taking the rest of the month off as leave. When I come back they are OK with me doing some office time, but the expectation is that I'm going back on the line...

This is the second time I've had a major breakdown since 2006. I don't really know if I'm up for a third... Although the first time was about two years ago, there were many times in between here and there that I just wanted to shout "I can't do it any more", but I put my head down and kept going forward...

I'm not sure what to do anymore. My wife and I had a bit of an argument... Not really an argument, I knew she was mad, but she also knows I'm in a bad place so she doesn't actually argue with me, so I tried to get her to tell me what was going on with her, but she just said everything was fine... I wish I could be in a place where she could argue with me....

Man... I don't know what to do any more... Even with my own time...

[Astridetal]

I care so much about you even though I do not know you. The military should really take PTSD more seriously. I know there is a center for PTSD with the Veterans' Administration, but I don't know what they do for active duty military. I have PTSD for different reasons so I cannot relate to your experience, but I want to let you know I seriously hope you can get help from within the military. They have to understand you and the many colleagues that suffer the same. Sending healing thoughts.

[(JD)]

Glad you can talk about this.... and hope things work out for you. I think it's too late for me.

[Troy]

Really ... Here's the scoop. After 40 years+ of PTSD in the mil and corp arena, I'm gonna tell ya like it is.

1. You and your family are your #1 priority. Another few years in the service for a mil retirement sound good, but by the time it's over, you'll be buried in the emotional and psychological quagmire that follows you the rest of your life. If your family is still with you at the end of that time, it's a miracle

a. Get a different mil job or get out. We're talking abou you and your fam here. Uncle Sam does not care about you or your family. You're the only one watching your back.

b. You can try for the mental health assistance while in the job, but it doesn't seem reasonable that you'd grab care from the shrink and get promoted. While the mil advocates all this mental health stuff, only you can tell whether they are honest about it. From your remark that you're afraid about discussing it here, I can tell that things haven't changed much since I was in the service. At that time, the shrinks were really only in the business of helping the mil discharge anyone who needed help. I was a commander and I used the shrinks for specifically that reason. I'm ashamed of what I did, but it was the system.

c. If you're really on the verge with ptsd, you can probably get a disability retirement. Do the math. You might be better off taking a disability now than waiting for 20 yrs. I know the mental and emotional struggle this will cause. I had to go through it.

d. More of the same won't help you in the future. I was in combat. I was wounded. I am permanently disabled because of it. I dodged the ptsd symptoms for years, but they have now descended upon me with a vengeance. You've done your duty. You've saved lives. You've defended the helpless. You've gone way beyond anything anyone could expect.

Now it's time to pay attention to your own needs. Because you've done as you're trained, you're not really at the top of your game. You're not the elite soldier you once were. Oh, sure, you can still do your job, but not with the enthusiasm and engagement that you once had. It's time to turn this over to the next in line.

I know it's not politically correct for me to tell you these things. As I speak, I feel kind of disloyal to the *flag* or whatever it is that drives warriors. But I have to tell you that continuing in your job will not make things better in the end.

No matter how dedicated you and your wife are. No matter how much you'll try to understand each other, in the end you will separate because of circumstances beyond your control.

Thank you for your service, Really. Thank you for all Americans and all of those you defend. We cannot express our appreciation enough to make it meaningful.

PM me if you wish. I'm no shrink, but I've been in your position.

troy

[Open Eyes]

really,
I have to agree with Troy, your not a machine, and as a civilian I would not want any troop to feel that way, thats awful and I certainly don't think that you or Troy are not being patriotic by telling the truth. All your efforts are truely respected and appreciated but I certainly would not want to see any troop feel any kind of shame at all, you have done alot, and Troy is right, step aside so someone else can take over, there should be no shame in that.

Nice to hear from you Troy,
Open Eyes

[porcupine2]

To Really, you have some great advice from everyone who responded. I agree that you should take a break from the service. How can someone possibly ask more from you - and that goes for you as well. It makes me angry as hell to hear how little resources are available to you and the stigmas, family aid, etc.
Keep sharing, people here truly care.

[really]

Hi all...

Well, I'm back from Disney Land, the happiest place on Earth... It was better then the places I have been... But...

While I was there I came to many of the same conclusions that Troy has affirmed for me above... All I've really known for most of my adult life is the military, and through out that time they've always talked about how much they care about me and my family... But every time I've been gone, no one has checked to make sure my wife and kids were OK except me.

And now that I need someone to be there for me, no one is there except my wife and kids... I hate placing 14 years of service in the hands of the VA, but I know that another 6 years just isn't possible. I have to go back to work tomorrow, and I hate the fact that I know I will be faced with the expectation of being good to go... Of returning to the line, like nothing has happened... A few days off and back into the grinder....

I'm getting together my records, putting things in place, and hopefully by the end of the year I will no longer be in the military... Wow, that sucks to say it out loud...

I just want to be able to sleep again without the dreams...

[Open Eyes]

It may suck to say it out loud but YOU are thinking about YOU. And in the military you can get trained or even drilled to stop thinking about YOU and only focus on that fight and manuevering through a maze of destruction and defense.

I think you have had enough and your honestly seeing it and trying to fight the
brain washing to not think about you.

Open Eyes

Okay Really,

Here's what it's like on the other side of the fence. I'll do my best to be specific, direct, and to the point.

It took four years from date of claim to the first check. I was not deterred and was willing and needed to hold out for no less than 100% service-connected compansation. The first thing I bought was a house. Bought and payed for. I have yet to be in this house for a year. 020811

My wife divorced me and my family turned thier back on me.

I have not drank in a long time and did this sober.

I was homeless and lived in homeless shelters for over ten years, sober.

I found a God that I started praying to, who introduced himself to me while I was in the military......of my own understanding.

I have been on SSI because I did not have enough quarters to be on/qualified for SSDI.

I have had food stamps.

I have been on section 8 housing.

I have lived with knuckleheads and buttfaces with no morals or ethics, let alone an understanding of the Constitution of the United States of America,sober.

I have been plugged in with the VA consistantly for the last three years(group), on and off for over ten.

I have seen, and still see for the last six years an expert in traumatic stress, in the civillian world, who auctually wrote up and made the Service Connection that is needed for compensation.

I have heard.......that the VA is quick to kick out 50%......for ptsd to soldiers who were in an active zone/theatre.....werever that maybe....hear say? Don't know.........

So, if I had to do this thing all over again, this is how I would do it.

1. stop drinking, start praying
2. immediately apply for ALL civillian admenities, SSI,SSDI,housing sec8,food stamps,temporary housing assistance,energy assistance anything and everthing, after discharge.
3. file claim, VA, ptsd......asap
4. seek(stay with) outside mental health. get plugged in with the VA. start gathering paperwork from civillian/VA mental health proffessionals for support of claim after discharge.

I have done this thing withOUT psyche meds, probably why I'm still alive, but, I do and still, practice complimentary alternitive medicine. exercise daily and eat proper........and intense out patient therapy,still.

The timeline for all this averages out to be, around two years.....civillian and VA...........................
It's a tough road to ride......I have riden this road......it can be done

My brother is retired AF from the late 60's early 70's.....I watch and here his suffering.....my heart crys for him.....

I am single....and probably will be for a long time.....my kids/grandkids have just started talking to me........I missed there childhood..........

...............................robert frost.....the road not taken........
.....................................flanders fields.............................

..............from the other side of the fence......sparrowstail

[Open Eyes]

Thank you sparrowstail,
Really, I hope you read this advice from sparrowtail, one mans suffering and learned experiences can be the salvation of another.

PTSD is hard enough, the way you start to sense something is not right, and then try to deny it is not realizing that it just wont go away. If you truely feel you cannot do anymore, you deserve to be heard without you being led to shame and fear.

And the incredible shame it brings, something that says to you, your not the same person you were, and you can't understand what that means. So, though you are not the same man, you do want to see if you can somehow recapture it, but the truth is that you can't. When you start to realize that you want to withdraw in shame and the hard part is unless someone reaches out, some that can say, your still a man, this is what happens I hear you, you stay in shame and fear.

The only way this will serve those that will also fall vicitm, and so many do, and hide in shame, is to stand up, say it outloud and make it known.

Your not a loser, your not a coward, you are, in fact, a human being that can very well suffer from this exposer to constant trauma. How you feel now? So many feel too, only they hide and do not speak up and suffer needlessly. THATS WRONG, THEY DESERVE BETTER, YOU DESERVE BETTER. The only way something gets done is when the voices break beyond a shame they don't deserve and speak up.

The squeeky wheel gets the grease. But in this case there has to be many squeeky wheels that make enough constant noise until they get heard and EVERYONE WHO DESERVES THE GREASE GETS IT.

Open Eyes

[really]

Hi again all,

Well, my command knows whats going on, all of it. They have been surprisingly understanding overall, but at the same time I am getting some conflicting messages from different people. My career as a Sensor Operator is over. I was only 70 hours short of having 3000 hours of combat flying time... Would have been a big mile stone, but I am off the flying schedule for good now.

So, I've been putting together my medical records, making sure to take care of as many appointments as I can, and trying to finish up my degree, I'll be done in March, I have the original chapter 30 GI-Bill, and tuition assistance as long as I'm on active duty.

Some of the commanders are talking about retraining me, while others are kind of hinting at this being the end. So, I'm just putting everything I can together to give me as many opportunities as possible, no mater what the outcome. Luckily I have a side business that I can build if I need to, and even more important a wife and family that love me.

My wife is trying to set up our family based on the idea that come the end of October we will no longer be in the military (that's her idea, not mine)... She's making sure our finances are in order, and the girls have all of their medical stuff up to date...

We'll see, right now its day by day. I'm not sure what tomorrow might look like... I just hope its better than today...

[PurpleFlyingMonkeys]

I'm so sorry really! My brothers were both in the military (we are a big military family). Both of my brothers came back with PTSD. The eldest brother being there in the very beginning right after 9-11 and the other brother from getting hit by an IED. He's on disability since he has shrapnel in his back. The military just threw them out like they were dirt. My eldest brother serving 8 years before they just disgarded him and the other serving 3 before they kicked him out for medical reasons. He has no medical. He only gets help for what the military caused physically, not emotionally. They wont see him for anything other than his back. His nightmares never stopped.

You're not alone in this, unfortunate as it is. I respect what the military stands for and feel sorrow for what the men and women in uniform have to endure during these times but the system is very flawed. It is full of men who put themselves in front of all others and that's not the way it is supposed to be run in the military. Somewhere the government made a terrible turn,, somewhere ages ago. Thinking back to what has been said about vietnam things were terrible for the soldiers there as well. It's flawed and needs to be fixed so good men as yourself and my brothers and the many others out there do not have to lose their lives after thinking they had saved their lives at some point being over seas. You think when you're home you will be safe and secure but the safety is taken in your dreams and the security is taken from the military.

Im sorry you have to hide this because as you know, they are quick to take it all away. I'm sorry you and your family have to endure this. I wish you all the best and you find a way to find peace for the things that are haunting you.

[really]

Well, my commander has given me until 1 January before they cut me loose.

Although I appreciate that, they are basically offering me nothing at all. Find a new job, thanks for coming...

A friend of mine mentioned that I may want to do a medical evaluation board, and as soon as I said that the my commander, he became very agitated...

It then struck me that absolutely everything that had happened up to this point has been verbal, so everything is deniable. That means I can simply be pushed out the door, no paper trail, no recourse...

Tomorrow I'm talking to the state VA administration, they are supposed to help me get my VA claim in order... We'll see...

Paranoia is the word of the day now, who do I trust, and who do I think is out to f*** me.

I wish I would have kept my mouth shut, lived with it... Ya that would have been the outcome...

AHHHHHHHHHHH, that's really how I feel.

[Open Eyes]

(((((really))))))

The way you feel is the PTSD talking. I am constantly feeling the same way, have the same kind of uncertainty and shame or feelings and doubts about talking about my personal issues.

As far as the Paranoia and wondering about who is going to stomp on you or make you feel worse or weak or not believe your very real struggle, that is VERY common when you suffer from PTSD.

I wish I would have kept my mouth shut? that is another way PTSD victims feel.

In the beginning your gut was telling you the truth, your brain was telling you the truth, and the truth is, you were at your limit and just couldn't take it anymore.

With PTSD it is important that the person that has it is removed from the source of the trauma and/or abuse. And you are trying to follow your inner feelings that are telling you, ENOUGH. And it is really important that you DO get a paper trail and journal everything you have done so far to takes steps towards getting help with your PTSD, including your conversations with your commander and how he reacts towards you and how it makes you feel.

Really, remember, you are not the only serviceman to experience this and have a deep desire to get help. In fact there are hundreds of men who feel just as you do and they don't get the real help they need to make their situation an easy path towards therapy and removal from the trauma or enviornment that is causing the PTSD. NONE OF YOU DESERVE TO FEEL PUSHED ASIDE AND DEVALUED IN ANYWAY. That is wrong, that is abuse itself, WRONG.

Really, I know you have inner doubts, feelings of failure and even rejection. Your last line here should not be uttered by you or any of the other men that feels like you. And you need to stand tall and fight for that right to say, ENOUGH. Everything your feeling right now is REAL and YOUR NOT ALONE. And it doesn't mean you were never strong enough, in fact, YOUR STRONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT YOU DESERVE THE RIGHT TO SAY ENOUGH. Your not a machine Really, your a human being and what your feeling is VERY HUMAN.

Do not accept the treatment and messages that are being sent to you that punish you in any way psychologically for something that is very real in you and many others. That is CRAP and very UNFAIR to receive that denial from others, and, IT HAS TO STOP. Every step you take, everything you face that denys you your right WRITE IT DOWN ALONG WITH EVERY NAME THAT FEEDS YOU THOSE MESSAGES. Because these people are WRONG AND ABUSERS. You and others like you have every right to stand up and say I AM NOT DOING WELL, I AM SUFFERING NOW, ENOUGH without feeling any shame or having to endure any abuse from the system. And who do you trust? You!!!!! You have to do everything you can to make that path a better one for you and anyone like you that needs to take that path without enduring these feelings that you are expressing here.

"I wish I would have kept my mouth shut, lived with it?" That is wrong, no one should say that, or feel that at all. Don't say that anymore, you have every right to pay attention to those very human, very real feelings that you and many like you face.

Write everything down Really, everything that tells you to say that. Because it should not happen to you or anyone else like you that has a genuine condition called PTSD.

Open Eyes

[really]

Thanks all for your support. And thank you Open Eyes, I started a Memorandum for Record today. Not just for documentation purposes, but because my memory has gotten worse and worse as my other issues have increased. So it helps me to remember things.

On that note things took a turn for the better today. Although my commander had the gaul to tell me, "you're not flying because you don't want to, not because you can't", he also told me who I needed to talk to, to begin a medical evaluation board. I went and talked to them and they told me the process. They also let me know that my commander won't be able to just shuffle me out the door on January 1st. By doing the MEB it allows me some more time to get things in order.

Also, with the fact that I have almost 15 years of service, and because I have plenty of documentation from both 2008 and my most current episode, that this should be a clear cut case to getting a medical retirement and treatment, or at the very least a buyout of my service time, and treatment.

We'll see... I really think my commander was hoping I would just walk out the door quietly, and therefore not show up on any reports. It's really disheartening that a person, my commander, which I have served with for 6 years, killed people with, and respected along the way, would some how think that I would suddenly wake up one day and decide that:

"well I have over 14 years of service, 6 years in this career field, I think what I'm going to do today is screw up my entire career and future by deciding simply not do my job anymore because I just don't want too."

He really offended me with his you're just not doing it because you don't want to comment. But hopefully things will work out in the end and he'll see just how wrong he is... But I doubt it.

In the coming months I have no doubt I'm going to be a Pariah in my squadron, but I have to get myself some help, and I have to make sure my family is taken care of.

[Open Eyes]

Good really, your on the right track, maybe your commander will miss you, but you truely can't worry about him, you have to just take care of you. Your commander will understand one day when the day comes when it has been enough for him too and that day will come, in fact he may be hiding it now.

And the memory issue is partly due to the PTSD, your brain is saying enough and you have to listen to that and your right, you have to take care of your family and you are part of that family. And a Pariah your not, you hung in there and did enough and you know what? There may be another guy that stays because he too is too afraid to speak up.

And I have to be honest, PTSD does have a side of it that makes a person feel guilty and even somewhat disappointed. But always remember it is not you, you have a human brain that has been telling you enough and there is no shame in that, you really need to listen and take care of you.

And keep coming here and let us all know how your doing, and even you need to vent because part of letting go is also letting go of the anger too. So we are here and listening and even saying prayers for you.

Open Eyes