dissociation

I saw a new therapist who has labeled the things I have done for as long as I can remember. She says I dissociate. Until recently I didnt have a word for this and i just thought it is the way I am.

I try to hide it. Recently, my current therapist who I am leaving said to me "what happened there?" And she kept questioning me and I didnt know what to say and she wouldnt take my "I dont know" for an answer." This is not the first time this happened there, but the first time she made a comment.

I was talking about something, I dont remember what, I think I mentioned my son's name. Then she said to me "what was that." I knew I did something or said something. I vaguely know that. What she said was I stopped talking in the middle of a sentence and began talking about something entirely different. I was aware at some point that I felt confused and she was asking me what happened there. My children say I do the exact same thing as my t said. There are many many instances throughout my life where Im not sure what went on for short/long periods of time. I just thought this is the way things are and I should hide this from other people. And I can usually cover for missing something from a conversation or whatever.

I thought Id post here. So.....Im posting...thanks for reading......

Hello Blue Moon,
Switching is a symptoms of dissociation. Loss of time for short or long periods is also another symptom. You are correct about the fact that you would think this is normal. There are also different types of dissociation.

Can you explain to me the different types?

Hi Blue....

Dissociation is actually not too uncommon for people. Everybody dissociates to a certain degree and this can be normal. Normal dissociation can be as simple as day-dreaming or spacing out, which everyone does from time to time, and as complicated as having the dissociation interfere with major life activities.

Just because one experiences dissociative symptoms does not mean they have a dissociative disorder. Many people with depression, bi-polar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and PTSD experience dissociative symptoms.

I think it's good that you and your T are beginning to identify and explore your symptoms. I think one of the most valuable things you can do is attempt to keep a log or diary, when you remember, of times when you believe or are told you change like you described in your post. That way you can take it to your T and it can help her see how much this is affecting your life.

Most importantly, at some point, you might want to talk with T about having a formal eval for dissociative disorders which usually consists of a couple multiple choice written tests and an interview with a specialist in the DD's.

Here are some links from PC that discuss the different types of dissociative experiences and disorders.

Take care

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx47.htm

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx46.htm

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx87.htm

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx18.htm

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx99.htm

There are various degrees of dissociative disorders ranging from passive disengagement and withdrawl from the active enviorment up to the most sever MPD. In between is BPD, PTSD and DID.

bluemoon - MPD otherwise known as Multiple Personality Disorder was previously used but dropped by the medical community in favour of using the term DID - Dissociative Indentity Disorder.

Thank you for all of the links and replies. I am going to look at them. My new t wants me to keep a journal of things that trigger me and when I "leave" I have done it a couple of times but I find it really hard. I didnt realize how much I dont really want to notice that I do it, Id rather just do it. And I dont want to look at things that trigger me, Id rather just avoid these things. I never knew that before. So I didnt write it down. But I am going to write it out from today. And if I try to stay "present" I feel so uncomfortable and like I am going to explode and it is easier to just let it go. I tried and tried the other day to stay present when I felt things getting far away and I was listening to someone speak but it was as if she didnt speak english and I didnt understand a single word but I saw her mouth moving. Then a little while later it was fine and I was back in the room and understood what she was saying. Probably I left but Im not sure.

How can this be worked on in therapy? I really never knew this was something I could describe to my therapist. I thought it was just the way things are.

I was diagnosed with bpd and depression and Im on lexipro. This new t said something about ptsd. But I have only seen her once.

How do you work on this in therapy?

The reason of looking at what triggers you is that you have to address the trigger and what causes or it will remain. Holding it inside and not releasing it only makes it stronger. How you work the therapy is based on the individual, so there may not be a "normal" way.

Hi again Blue,

How you work on it in therapy depends on each person, what they're diagnosis is, and what method of therapy seems to work best for them.

Generally, when working with dissociative symptoms/disorders, therapy takes a bit longer because you do work to identify how separated your ego states are. Ego states are the different parts of you ~ like...you feel/behave differently at work/school than you do at a party; this is normal for people. The more extreme end of this is when each ego state takes on a more independent life of it's own.

Once you identify this, and you are in a stable place mentally/emotionally, work begins on processing whatever traumas were in ones life that encouraged the dissociation. As the trauma work is being done, you are also learning more adaptive coping skills to help teach yourself how to stay more in the present, instead of your psyche "leaving" when it feels stressed.

It can be irritating and uncomfortable when you "leave", but if you attempt to hold it back it will generally cause more stress. Your T, or a T with experience in Dissiociation will be able to help you work through this. It just takes time and practice and you need to be patient with yourself and allow yourself to go at your own pace. Rushing it only causes more stress/trauma.

Keep posting if you like. We'll be here for you. And good for you for working with T and following through with your homework. It's scary, but you can do it!!

Hi Elysium. I looked at the links. It seemed difficult to even read it. And when I was reading your post about trauma and ego states I was feeling like this is too hard. How am I going to do this? I worked some on trauma with my previous t, but I didnt go into too much detail, and some things I couldnt say so I just wrote things down for her to read. She wasnt a trauma therapist and didnt have training in what to do with me. Im in the process of leaving her. But the thought of talking about this with someone new is scary. It seems impossible.

My new t did say something about doing "grounding techniques" in the next session.

Even when I think of more adaptive coping skills it scares me. Maybe I am feeling like I want to hold onto my coping strategy. I want to "leave" if I need to. I want to get better and be present, but I am afraid of healing and doing what I have to do to heal. I guess I can say that to my t. I hope she can be patient with me.

YES! It does cause more stress to hold back leaving. And often I dont know it beforehand. Its a lot of effort to be always watching myself for it. I probably have to go really slow.

I have a question. Something triggered me (it was the sound of a leaf blower outside my house). I know it was a trigger but if I mention it to my t I also want to say I dont really want to get into why it is a trigger. It isnt that I know why because I dont. I am afraid of my feelings or being overwhelmed by memories or something. Not sure.

Thanks for your help!

Hi Bluemoon

This whole process is scary stuff but it gets better. I was only dx'd 4-5 years ago and I notice a huge change for the better.
You don't need to tell your T why the sound triggered. Hopefully your T will realize how overwhelming this is for you. Memories won't happen till the body can cope with them. Trust the body.
Welcome, BTW.

Blue ~

Sweety it is about one step at a time. You don't go any faster than you are comfortable with. It does seem/feel overwhelming and scary. There may be memories from your past that are difficult for you to remember and your mind is sheltering you from those in a highly creative way by dissociating to protect you.

I think it is natural for trauma survivors to not want to lose this coping mechanism. I know I'm scared to. The whole thing is about taking it slowly and helping you be able to live a life that is less disrupted by the dissociation. And Calista is right, your mind will not present you with any memories until it is ready for you to remember and deal with them.

You don't have to share things with T if they bother you. Just tell them that it is what it is and you don't feel ready to talk about it....or you can write it if it makes you more comfy. A good T will take things at your pace and will not pressure you to move to fast....and it is okay to ask to slow down if things feel overwhelming. Moving to fast can lead to retraumatizing you and that is the last thing that T wants to have happen.

Learning grounding will be a good thing for you. It takes practice so you will want to put your mind to working with it daily to build up the skill...but it can be very helpful.

We're always here for you if you need us.

Thank you Calista and Elsyium. It helps to hear that it is ok to go slowly. I was writing things down yesterday and today I am not. I feel like it was enough to do it yesterday. Maybe I will write again tomorrow. Weekends are harder b/c it there is less structure. But I am keeping busy constantly. I dont feel like leaving the house today, but there is a lot for me to do in the house with my small children.

I do want to remember things from when I was a child, but I dont. When I have remembered something, I feel like I just dont want to go back there, Im glad I am not there and Ive had enough. But memories come at me. This new t was telling me it was overwhelming for me, I think I said something that didnt make sense.....it was sort of out of context or something. I am afraid I'll go to therapy and be silent. I hate to have to make her work so hard.

Elysium- you said you are scared also to lose this coping mechanism. What would you replace it with ? It is something I have done forever. It feels very comfortable. I feel very protected and safe when I can "go" even if I dont really know at that moment that I go.

When I began with my other t I was talking about nothing for about 8 months. Last January I started to work on deeper things b/c I wasnt doing so well and a lot more became obvious. I dont want to talk about nothing for the next 8 months with this new t. I need to get better but I dont really know her or feel safe yet.
Maybe I am pressuring myself unnecessarily. I guess things will move along at a natural pace.

(((((((((((moon!)))))))))))))

My hope is that I won't *need* to replace it. That through the work I am doing in therapy, the triggers will be reduced, and my ability to deal with them and stay grounded and present will improve, and I won't HAVE to "leave" anymore....

Try not to put too much pressure on yourself about therapy. It took me over 18 months to even BEGIN talking about the really hard stuff, but there was still a LOT of healing happening during that time. A lot. When it is time, you will be ready. Until then, there is still important work being done. Most of the important work in therapy for me has been done around the therapy relationship, and we were working on that from day one.

My guess is it won't take you 18 months to be able to open up...you have already been working hard with a therapist for a while. It was my first time ever in therapy, so it was a really slow process for me. But even if it DOES take 18 months (or more!) its really, really okay

to you!

Yes, so many good posts with great information. I just want to add that in this sort of therapy work my therapist who specializes in dissociative disorders including D.I.D. and PTSD and trauma work says "Going slower in therapy is actually faster."

Relax and take it easy.

I guess that is why I dont want to look at what is triggering me. It feels too difficult to go there. Especially with a new t.

Im glad you said that about there being no normal way. I sometimes think I make bad choices for therapists b/c I dont do therapy well
I want to work harder with this t though and be less afraid.

Hi Tree Do you mean that replacing it isnt what will happen. The things that riggered before wont trigger and you will stay grounded and be present. And not need to leave. For me to be like this Id have to wake up in the morning as a different person. Can you imagine being that way? Or is it a distant goal type of thing?

Really? Im going to be asking really basic questions. How did you start working on the theraputic relationship. You know my t wasnt doing that at all. I was talking about my h and kids. After 8 mos and things with me started going downhill she started working on borderline stuff but never trauma (even tho she labeled my childhood traumatic). I dont know where to start with this t. I can say that in therapy too. Its an easy sentence, I guess. Ask her for help. Tell her there is so much to say but I dont know where to begin and I dont feel that comfortable yet.
I am afraid to mention my previous t (not desk t) b/c my t changed course completely when I started talking about that.

I want to start with her where I am leaving off with my t. But I dont know how she will react to what I would tell her- or how she will react to me telling her that I dont remember much of my childhood. How can I work on what I dont remember?

I think my kids will be in college by the time I am present for them I wish I could wake up in the morning as a normal person This sucks.......

Thanks Tree

Really? Why??????

I like that sentence a lot. Can you explain further?

Moon - I think going slower in therapy is actually faster (for me) because I can keep moving FORWARD. When I have tried to rush into things, I have become REALLY overwhelmed and have gone back to old coping skills, etc. And then we have to work on THAT before I can get back to what we were originally trying to work on.

Does that make sense???

Honestly, just by showing up for therapy the first time. Right away, there you are, with another person, beginning this journey together. After that, it's been by being honest about what I'm feeling about him, and about the relationship, even if it's hard.

About 2 months into therapy, I had a HORRIBLE session. T and I were totally missing each other, he wasn't hearing me and was making everything worse, and I thought he was being awful on purpose so I would leave and never come back. It was a Friday and I cried ALL weekend. It was awful. When I saw him on Monday, I was totally honest about how I felt about what happened. He totally listened, owned his part in it, and really sincerely apologized. He said that he should just shut down his practice because he had been so awful lol The appointment was a BIG DEAL and, looking back, it felt like when therapy really started for me. And T's receptiveness to what I said to him made me feel like I could always bring things up - even little things - about the relationship, and I have.

As for not remembering your childhood...you can just talk about not remembering it. And talk about the things you DO remember. Just start where you are...that's all you have to do.

(((((((((((((((Moon)))))))))))))) I know it's hard to not worry, but things really will fall into place. You picked a T that is experienced and good, and she will help you through this.

That makes perfect sense b/c that is exactly what I will do. I will try to keep up and not recognize that I am overwhelmed. And then disappear or go underwater in the session. I should talk about this with the new t. I dont know how I will recognize I am getting overwhelmed and "going" before I do.

[quote=treehouse;1150093]Honestly, just by showing up for therapy the first time. Right away, there you are, with another person, beginning this journey together. After that, it's been by being honest about what I'm feeling about him, and about the relationship, even if it's hard.[quote]

I am always struck by your honesty. On the boards and with your t. You are right there with your feelings and you express them. And you express yourself so well and so clearly. I get this awful delay. Sometimes I can be there in the moment with how I feel, but if I am scared and it is in therapy and the relationship is important, there is this delay and I dont know I am upset until later when it feels too late.

I am in awe. This is amazing. I am learning from you tree. I just dont know if I can be so honest. It is scary. Especially since this t (desk t) didnt respond well AT ALL to my honesty. She stopped my in mid-sentence- literally. I am afraid ftt will say, then I guess I am not the t for you....we dont connect.....whatever. I will be abandoned once again.

I would imagine that would be a turning point. You can trust him to be there. To not turn you away or dislike you. He was constant and safe. He is amazing. In a room like that I would think it would be a safe place to talk about anything.
The relationship has to grow. That is the way relationships are and I cant push or rush myself.

OK- I'll do that. I remember feelings and some incidents. I did remember quite a bit this past year but I dont think I could go there with someone I didnt know. Im sure my t would know that trust would be an issue.

Thanks- I hope she is good, she works with people with my issues. And she was highly recommended and her schedule is full....which is a good sign....

(((Moon)))
There's so many good ideas and suggestions from everyone here. it's true that slower is actually faster cause when you go slow & easy, you don't tend to dive back into your shell and have to start from scratch again.
Please believe your body will tell you when it's ready to remember. It IS big deal to just show up for therapy... It's really hard work! Its fine to tell your T that you don't remember your childhood. That's a great starting point.
I had a similar realization to Tree and found my T was safe and completely trustworthy. I could tell him anything and he never judged.
My T compared this therapy as a jig saw puzzle. One piece at a time and soon you will be seeing the picture clearly. There is no right or wrong way for this process to happen; it just does.

Ahhh, but knowing how I feel IN THE MOMENT really isn't something I'm good at, at all. I have always tended to dissociate, or at the very least kind of zone out, and really have no way of knowing what I feel in the moment. Like, in the incident I told you about, on that Friday early in therapy, I just "left" for most of the session. It took a lot of slow-motion processing over the weekend to figure out what I was feeling,and then I wrote it all down over and over again, and THEN I was able to bring it to him on the following Monday. That's how it went for a LONG time.

I am slowly beginning to recognize my feelings DURING session, and that is a huge step forward. HUGE. And sometimes I am able to be present enough to feel them AND express them right then. (Sometimes!) It took a long time and a lot of practice. The thing is, even if you don't realize what you are feeling until later, it's still okay to bring it up.

Moon, if this is a good therapist, she will be willing and able to hear what your thoughts and feelings are about ANYTHING, including your relationship.

[quote=Calista+12;1150178](((Moon)))
There's so many good ideas and suggestions from everyone here. it's true that slower is actually faster cause when you go slow & easy, you don't tend to dive back into your shell and have to start from scratch again. [quote]

I'll do it- so slower would be not pushing myself. She did tell me to keep a journal and write down triggers, so I wrote down a few words and not too much detail b/c that is all I want to say. If I want to say more I can add to it. I would like to stay present.

Quote:

Please believe your body will tell you when it's ready to remember. It IS big deal to just show up for therapy... It's really hard work! Its fine to tell your T that you don't remember your childhood. That's a great starting point.

I guess I am afraid I will do the easy thing and never remember and never try to since it is easier to not to. Or when I remember something I will run from it. Especially mother things, which is what a female t brings up for me.

Quote:

My T compared this therapy as a jig saw puzzle. One piece at a time and soon you will be seeing the picture clearly. There is no right or wrong way for this process to happen; it just does.

You sound like you have a really good t. She knows you well. I can see it being a jigsaw puzzle. That is the way it feels. Like I have memories and feelings in pieces in my head and when I start to talk I get out pieces and it doesnt make sense when I talk. That is exactly what happened in my last session with this new t. I know I said stuff that wasnt making sense. Pieces came out of my mouth. It happens when I am overwhelmed.