Had a final marriage counseling session tonight. I have had depression most of my life. I have taken responsibility in my contributing to our marriage failing. We have been separated for over a year now. He is a chronic liar, a cheat, been verbally and physically abusive and has used me. So you're wondering why would I have waited so long.
I was so low in my own self esteem, I was already rejected as a child and chose a partner that began putting me down. He lost interest. I had no desire to live and was completely dependent on him. I finally got help and got my own place. I wanted counseling, because of our son being in the middle of arguments, he was willing. He still verbally abused me.
He had an affair. We went to a counselor again, I forgave him, asked him for honesty, that's all I wanted. I wanted to at least be on friendly terms with him. I can say I have learned how to do that now. But he lied this year during our last 8 counseling sessions of which I paid more than half. I'm done. I'm done being used. He doesn't think he used me, and even made a comment a while ago "I fed your a@@ for years"...can anybody verify for me he is not worth my time and he really does not deserve me and tell me I can make it on my own? I still suffer with deep depression, and I'm a little scared to think of life alone. thanks for reading, any hugs or advice of any kind appreciated.

[healingme4me]

I'm sure, the comment about how he fed you is just a small example, of an entire bigger picture.

He's had affairs on you, putting your health at risk, never mind not attending to how this would affect you emotionally, you know, the woman that HE vowed to honor. Sounds like he broke that vow.

It's not easy, but gosh, the relief of not being subjected to abuse day in a day out is well worth, whatever struggles you may encounter. Plus, your child doesn't need to grow up in an argumentative home.

I get what you mean, about depression. Yet, being away from a tumultuous relationship, makes any level of depression, just a little more tolerable.

[birdslikearms]

You need to set an example for your son. You don't want him growing up and treating his future wife, the way your x has treated you. You've given him a year, after seperation to get his stuff together. I think you've been more than patient imho. I gave my x, similar to yours, a year also and he continued to behave the same way the entire time, including cheating 3 months after the seperation.

It is hard, no doubt. I am still battling with going back myself. Especially when he is being nice, I forget about the other side of him. But I know that I was miserable, and I can't imagine living like that again, especially after being on my own and finally being able to live and eat the food I want and dress the way I want, have the friends I choose, leaving the house on my own, and just be myself at all hours of the day and not have to hide any part of me at all.

You can be strong and break your past pattern. You and your son are worth more than what he has made you believe you are. You are worth going through this change and hard times, so you can go on and have a super happy fabulous life that you decide to live.

If you haven't already, maybe contact some local abused women's groups and see if you can go there for some support. I know you are only separated, but a divorce group could help you with the loss of a marriage. These groups are usually free and you can find others going through similar to help you get through.

Thank you both for your support. Its much appreciated. ..

[littlebitlost]

Dont have any advice really, but I think you' ve done the right thing by yourself. Put yourself first, and nurture yourself. You need and deserve it. *BIG HUGS*

[Rose76]

One of the things I learned when I attended support groups for women in abusive relationships is that counseling rarely, if ever, does any good whatsoever. I took my domestic partner to have a couples' counseling session with my own psychiatrist. She asked him how did he manage to put up with me. Domestic abuse experts (counselors who specialized in DV) have explained that this type of thing is very common. They said that women often get labeled as bipolar, when that is not the real problem. Keep that in mind whenever you deal with therapists/counselors/pdocs. It won't be such an issue, now, I would think . . . because you are out of that living arrangement.

Co-parenting a child will still be a challenge. Don't be surprised, if your ex tried to undermine your son's respect for you. I was shocked at how severe that problem is when I stayed at a women's DV shelter. Some of these men are absolutely diabolical in how thoroughly they want to destroy anything good in your life.

I think I sort of understand what you are looking for when you say you want to be on friendly terms with him. But I have to ask you to think again. I very truly believe that part of your recovery will depend on you facing the fact that this man is not your friend. There are such things as amicable divorces . . . I suppose, but that's really not what you should be primarily shooting for IMHO. First priority is your physical safety. If you think you've got that nailed down, then the second is your psychological safety. Don't try to sugarcoat what happened . . . in your mind, or in his.

If you did not have a child together, then I would advise you have nothing further to do with him. That may not be possible, since you have a child. I don't know. Is your son safe with his father? Some of that depends on your son's age. At a certain point in his teens, your son will make up his own mind about a lot of things. For now, I would give him simple honest answers to basic questions. If he saw the abuse, then he already understands a great deal.

If interacting with your ex remains necessary because of the fact that you are both parents of the same child, then accept that as an unfortunate necessity and keep those interactions simple. You need to become emotionally aloof to this man. This is where you could benefit greatly by going to a DV support group. I guarantee you that he is not done playing games with your head. So don't get sucked in. (If he calls about your son, keep it real short and business-like. When he asks how you are doing, do not go into sharing anything with him. Do not try to fix the past. You can't. Move on.)

Living with him was hard. If you've done that you can do a lot. You absolutely can live alone successfully. You have a lot to learn, but you were sure never going to learn it living with him. Let this whole experience leave you with ZERO tolerance for abusive relationships. That will be one positive take-away you come out of this with. In this world we are surrounded by decent human beings. Get to know some of them.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by Rose76

They said that women often get labeled as bipolar,

. Don't be surprised, if your ex tried to undermine your son's respect for you.

part of your recovery will depend on you facing the fact that this man is not your friend. .

This hits close to home. I strolled into my pdocs office, outright, asking him, if I was bipolar. The emotional reactivity that comes from years of abuse, leaves one questioning their own state of mind. He told, me, that he'd need to sit down with me, through many more sessions and communicate with my talk therapist and I'd venture to state, perhaps even discussed things, with my neurologist, of whom, I'd disclosed parts of my abuse experiences, especially one event back in '08 that was a matter of days prior to my routine neurological exam. ((I's certain, at this point, the 'I think I was assaulted' statement that led to a subsequent referral to my pdoc.))

I agree, about not trying to appease your abuser, into having some type of friendly amicable divorce, 'for the sake of the kids.' Reality, is that they often try to make it appear that you are a no good, horrible mother for 'taking their kids' away from them in divorce. My ex, had his family psycho-babble analyze me, in ways, that the bi polar talk was coming out, but one nephews wife, stated it was closer to ptsd what I was dealing with, and none of this psycho babble was done in some kind, generous, let's sit down and talk to you face to face, way either. Imagine, kids on a school yard, as one child walks by, whispers and mumbling statements.

I'd say, if kids are involved, though Rose states, that her impression that therapy does no good, I'd say it does, only if you are doing more work on top of it all, to overcome to codep traits that go along with sticking by someone who's personality is like night and day...

[Rose76]

I need to amend something I think I mis-stated above. Counseling is apt to do lots of good for lots of people. What I heard over and over from experts on Domestic Violence is that it does very little good toward changing the behavior of abusers. They also claim to have found that, when a domestically abusive person does change for the better, it is not while that abuser is in the relationship with the party abused. (So after a relationship involving abuse ends, the abusive partner may, conceivably, go on to have a non-abusive relationship with someone else.)

I would encourage the original poster here to definitely look into therapy, if she feels inclined to . . . for herself. And, yes, overcoming co-dependent traits is part of the work. I think literature published by Al-Anon is about the best stuff there is on that out there.

[shezbut]

You are absolutely making the best decision that you can in your current situation. Unfortunately, your son most certainly can develop nasty traits of your husband's...even if he is angry or hurt by what he has seen. I would therefore be sure to support him in the most helpful ways.

I do agree with Rose76 who questioned whether you should be devoted to obtaining an amicable divorce. I think that isn't always the "right thing to do", especially when you're removing yourself from an abusive marriage. Imo, the right thing for you to do is to focus upon YOU and YOUR SON. That's what is most important. If you're going to split custody of your son 50/50, then you're going to want to leave on the most positive note that you can, to help your son cope with the major changes in his life. But, if you're shooting for primary custody, forget the relationship with your abusive hub. You and your son need to be treated decently, with care and respect!

Very best wishes to your son and yourself ~ take care!

[fraiser]

I think you have been given stellar advice. Remaining friends with your ex gives you no closure. I know, I tried. In his mind it was over. I don't know what I was thinking remaining friends but it doesn't work. I hate to say it but you have to start the gut wrenching process of grieving the loss of that relationship. After almost 2 years I never really accepted it was over. He never called But to me it wasn't over. Now I do and the pain is awful. I just finished a letter to him letting him know what I thought about his treatment of me. I'm accepting it now. You need to as well. Staying friends is your denial that its over. Start your grieving...its a xxxxx. But keep posting. We'll help you get through it like Rose and others helped me.

[Rose76]

A therapist once told me that it can be very therapeutic to write a letter that you do not necessarily send. For fraiser, sending the letter that she wrote make work. I don't know. Maybe she can let us know how that turns out. Maybe it will help her move on.

For some, though, writing a letter can be cathartic and can help one to organize one's thoughts, even it the letter never leaves your hand. I would caution strongly against actually mailing a letter like this to an ex who was guilty of true domestic violence. Any cop will tell you that, if you want someone to leave you alone, then you have to leave that someone alone. Once, I considered getting an order of protection against someone. Police emphasized to me that it would put an obligation on me to stay away from the person who I wanted kept away from me. I was actually surprised to learn that. 30 seconds of thinking showed me how that did make sense.

If you have to be communicating with your ex because of the both of you having parental rights to co-parent, then keep it cool and businesslike. Resist the urge to pour out your heart to your ex who was abusing you. You've already done that more than enough. You've had 14 years of that. Don't keep hitting your head against a brick wall. As the saying goes, "Don't flog a dead horse." The relationship is dead. Don't hang around the graveyard.

Wow, thanks everyone, I haven't been back to this thread since the day after I wrote it, all such great advice.
Yes, it is "our" son, I already have legal custody. I physically moved away from him over a year ago, I was just in that mindset that we could still make it work. I wanted it to end amicably but I'm realizing I'm talking way too much to him now, and it should be the way you said it Rose. He used to, and still thinks, he can "help" me, but HE IS THE ONE WHO HURT ME, over and over and over, WHAT am I THINKING?.....
thanks so much for all the responses, so much support here, thanks to you all and hugs

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by needarealitycheck

Had a final marriage counseling session tonight. I have had depression most of my life. I have taken responsibility in my contributing to our marriage failing. We have been separated for over a year now. He is a chronic liar, a cheat, been verbally and physically abusive and has used me. So you're wondering why would I have waited so long.
I was so low in my own self esteem, I was already rejected as a child and chose a partner that began putting me down. He lost interest. I had no desire to live and was completely dependent on him. I finally got help and got my own place. I wanted counseling, because of our son being in the middle of arguments, he was willing. He still verbally abused me.
He had an affair. We went to a counselor again, I forgave him, asked him for honesty, that's all I wanted. I wanted to at least be on friendly terms with him. I can say I have learned how to do that now. But he lied this year during our last 8 counseling sessions of which I paid more than half. I'm done. I'm done being used. He doesn't think he used me, and even made a comment a while ago "I fed your a@@ for years"...can anybody verify for me he is not worth my time and he really does not deserve me and tell me I can make it on my own? I still suffer with deep depression, and I'm a little scared to think of life alone. thanks for reading, any hugs or advice of any kind appreciated.

You probably made the best decision for you and for your son that you could have ever made and you should be proud of your self! You will be able to make it one your own and if you need it there are resources to help you too. You should feel really good about yourself right now

[nicoleflynn]

We tend to marry someone like one of our parents and try to fix the past...this is all on an unconscious level, of course. I did that....for 31 years, then found the book which I believe should be read by everyone on the planet (1 in 3 women will be physically assaulted and it all begins with verbal abuse): The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. I have also written a paper (which was presented at the State Counseling Association) on verbal abuse. With verbal abuse alone, the brain can physically change....I have slides of brain images. I WISH we could drop that term "domestic"---violence and abuse...are violence and abuse. It is rarely, if ever a good idea to go into counseling with an abuser.

The abuser need to go by themselves and deal with their own issues....after some time has passed, etc.....the therapist can assess if couples counseling is in their best interest.

My suggestion is find a good therapist, support group; take care of yourself ...be kind and gentle to yourself; hugs and love, Nicole (if you are interested in my paper, let me know; glad to send it)

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

We tend to marry someone like one of our parents and try to fix the past...this is all on an unconscious level, of course. I did that....for 31 years, then found the book which I believe should be read by everyone on the planet (1 in 3 women will be physically assaulted and it all begins with verbal abuse): The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. I have also written a paper (which was presented at the State Counseling Association) on verbal abuse. With verbal abuse alone, the brain can physically change....I have slides of brain images. I WISH we could drop that term "domestic"---violence and abuse...are violence and abuse. It is rarely, if ever a good idea to go into counseling with an abuser.

The abuser need to go by themselves and deal with their own issues....after some time has passed, etc.....the therapist can assess if couples counseling is in their best interest.

My suggestion is find a good therapist, support group; take care of yourself ...be kind and gentle to yourself; hugs and love, Nicole (if you are interested in my paper, let me know; glad to send it)

Hi nicole, yes I'm interested in your paper, and I'm going to see if I can find that book, sounds very insightful!

[sallygator]

I moved on with my life over 20 years ago with a bit of crying- the focus on work and my kids- and found a wonderful guy when I wasn't even looking- so Move on with Your life- there are many "fish in the sea" and all sorts- colors, sizes, and mainly- just work on your self and your child- Who, incidentally, since he is male, takes after YOUR father genetically- so the Xchromosome at work- thru you- means, your son has more of your own father's characteristics than the ex's. Will be much easier , perhaps to work with in his maturation!
Good luck- So many options! Wish you the best- It worked for me!

[Rose76]

I don't know about that. RealityCheck had two X chromosomes, herself . . . one from her dad . . . and one from her mom. So her son's X chromosome could have as much from his grandma (her mom,) as from his grandpa (her father.) But, then, he got his Y chromosome from his dad. His dad contributed 50% of his DNA. Her dad contributed only half of the DNA in her. She only contributed part of that to son. Father's DNA would outweigh Grandfather's DNA. Least, that's how I figure it. (?)

[Alone & confused]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I'm sure, the comment about how he fed you is just a small example, of an entire bigger picture.

He's had affairs on you, putting your health at risk, never mind not attending to how this would affect you emotionally, you know, the woman that HE vowed to honor. Sounds like he broke that vow.

It's not easy, but gosh, the relief of not being subjected to abuse day in a day out is well worth, whatever struggles you may encounter. Plus, your child doesn't need to grow up in an argumentative home.

I get what you mean, about depression. Yet, being away from a tumultuous relationship, makes any level of depression, just a little more tolerable.

I agree with you! Taking the control of MY LIFE out of the hands of my abusive husbands was liberating for me ! Sure it was hard getting my life back, but WELL WORTH IT!

[Bobbarita]

I am BP1, correctly diagnosed in 2007 after my 1st delusional manic episode, which landed me inpatient, (my 1st time) for 5 days. I filed for divorce in August 2012 because he constantly exacerbated my condition. I was emotionally abused. When I gained the necessary self-esteem and courage to end it my p-doc agreed that he could prescribe all the medication in a pharmacy, but as long as I stayed in the marriage it would have no effect. I was married almost 20 years. It is not easy. I don't intend to ever see or speak to him again. The divorce only became final 6 weeks ago and he is already in contempt of court. We had no children together. He ruined the relationship between my daughter, (from a previous 10 year marriage) and I. He even flew to another state to do that. Of course, he never cared about her when we were married. She was "my problem", he said. It's tough. This battle isn't over yet but I have peace and quiet rather than argumentation, criticism, intimidation, humiliation, and sarcasm hurled at me daily. The 1st week I was in my own apartment I couldn't put my finger on it, but something besides my ex was missing. It was the constant, daily abuse. That's how "conditioned" I had become. I KNOW what my diagnosis is, and I'm compliant with meds and therapy. He is a sick and angry man with mental issues, no diagnosis, and no medication. I'm so glad I ended it. I'm going to work on healing and "re-inventing" myself and possibly find a loving, healthy, empathetic partner in the future. I'm over it. You will be too and be better off for it. Both you and your child deserve better.

Originally Posted by Bobbarita

I am BP1, correctly diagnosed in 2007 after my 1st delusional manic episode, which landed me inpatient, (my 1st time) for 5 days. I filed for divorce in August 2012 because he constantly exacerbated my condition. I was emotionally abused. When I gained the necessary self-esteem and courage to end it my p-doc agreed that he could prescribe all the medication in a pharmacy, but as long as I stayed in the marriage it would have no effect. I was married almost 20 years. It is not easy. I don't intend to ever see or speak to him again. The divorce only became final 6 weeks ago and he is already in contempt of court. We had no children together. He ruined the relationship between my daughter, (from a previous 10 year marriage) and I. He even flew to another state to do that. Of course, he never cared about her when we were married. She was "my problem", he said. It's tough. This battle isn't over yet but I have peace and quiet rather than argumentation, criticism, intimidation, humiliation, and sarcasm hurled at me daily. The 1st week I was in my own apartment I couldn't put my finger on it, but something besides my ex was missing. It was the constant, daily abuse. That's how "conditioned" I had become. I KNOW what my diagnosis is, and I'm compliant with meds and therapy. He is a sick and angry man with mental issues, no diagnosis, and no medication. I'm so glad I ended it. I'm going to work on healing and "re-inventing" myself and possibly find a loving, healthy, empathetic partner in the future. I'm over it. You will be too and be better off for it. Both you and your child deserve better.

Thank you for sharing this. I think you made me aware of something. I had a child already too, when we married, and yes he was emotionally abusing and called him a waste of space, etc., he was a sick person, is a sick person, my ex. But what you made me realize, as I left him and got my own apartment, was something was missing. The abuse. I don't miss it, but its strange at the same time. I keep abusing myself with my own thoughts, except they aren't my thoughts, they were put in me, as a child, then as an adult by my abusers.
I also want to "re-invent" myself, and find exactly what you said, a healthy empathetic understanding partner. I first have to stop the self sabotage. Hugs to you, I'm glad you are over things and I wish you a better future.

Originally Posted by needarealitycheck

"I fed your a@@ for years"...can anybody verify for me he is not worth my time and he really does not deserve me and tell me I can make it on my own?

This, says it all. I am so sick of men that feel entitled to treating their spouses and girlfriends badly because they "provide". It's easy to "feed, house and care for someone financially" but to actually love and be a husband or SO is a whole other ball of wax. The fact that he cheated, and his attitude right in that statement speaks volumes. You seem to know the answer here. Although I agree with you, dont' look for validation in this, you don't need it. You know what he is and how he treated you. Be strong in yourself and your decision. But not becuase I or anyone else says so but because in your heart you know it's right.

~S4

~S4, yes, I almost think he felt "entitled" to abuse me, because in his eyes I was of no value, because I had depression and bipolar, I wasn't able to hold down a job. He used that against me, to keep me down in the depths of depression. It makes me sick too. I've tried having a relationship since then. I have a very hard time keeping the details away from the ex. I don't know why I still try to feel like I'm worth something to the man I spent twenty years with now (not all of them legally married). I question myself constantly. Of course this new relationship didn't work. I was still in the mind set (all those horrible disgusting names he called me, kept creeping in), and I couldn't even feel like I was worth this new man getting to know me.
Sorry, your point being that the man can treat the woman badly because they provide. I agree.(he didn't provide well by and means). It made him feel good about himself, and to put me down for being "crazy", all the more power to him. I don't want to talk to him anymore, but I'm easily manipulated into giving out myself to him, giving him clues, because I want him to have a conscience. I want him to realize how he changed me. He never will, and his sick mind enjoys hearing me, just the tone of my voice when I'm having a bad day, and he asks how our son is, he then says "are you okay, what's going on", I have to stop letting him get that part of me. I need to pretend, if I have to, that everything is okay. It will be. Was good to come back and read this thread. I'm a slow learner for some things in life. Thanks S~4

.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

This, says it all. I am so sick of men that feel entitled to treating their spouses and girlfriends badly because they "provide". It's easy to "feed, house and care for someone financially" but to actually love and be a husband or SO is a whole other ball of wax. The fact that he cheated, and his attitude right in that statement speaks volumes. You seem to know the answer here. Although I agree with you, dont' look for validation in this, you don't need it. You know what he is and how he treated you. Be strong in yourself and your decision. But not becuase I or anyone else says so but because in your heart you know it's right.

~S4

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by needarealitycheck

~S4,
I'm easily manipulated into giving out myself to him, giving him clues, because I want him to have a conscience. I want him to realize how he changed me.

.

It sounds like you're saying, "I am what I am because that's what he made me." It sounds like you still see yourself as utterly dependent on him.

Originally Posted by Rose76

It sounds like you're saying, "I am what I am because that's what he made me." It sounds like you still see yourself as utterly dependent on him.

In some ways I am, I have no vehicle, he took mine. I know I've got to stop this. I just finished hanging up on him because he asked me for gas money. I need a vehicle to get groceries. If I use some other way, it costs too much.
But my head needs a break from his manipulation. I said I'm not stupid, but I don't wise up too fast. I pay for gas when I use the vehicle, I even go so stupidly far as to give him groceries when he has nothing. He just got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and I want my son to have a father. I know I have to stop, my mind is so full of anxiety right now, I can feel it in my whole body. I know what he did to me. I said somewhere on here that this is my life, what anyone said to me is in the past, but how do you get rid of deeply ingrained thoughts? I don't want friendship, I don't want him to listen to my pain anymore.
He wouldn't even keep up with the child support, not fully...
I can't stand the man. I guess I'll spring for a taxi.

[Rose76]

So you and he are "sharing" a vehicle. Is it registered in your name? Is the car insurance in your name? Whoever's name is on that title is the owner. If he gets in an accident, while he is driving your car, then your insurance rates go up. Something's wrong with that picture.

It sounds more and more like you didn't lose all that much, when you lost him. A man his age can't provide himself with a vehicle . . . can't even keep adequate groceries in his kitchen. This sounds like you divorced a husband, just to turn around and adopt him as a child. How much of a father can he be to your son? You're going to subsidize that relationship to keep it going? So that your son can have this important role model in his life, so that he can be more like his daddy? That's what you want?

If that car truly is yours - legally speaking - then it should be kept parked outside your door. Should there be an emergency for your son, or you, that car should be readily available. Are you lending it to your ex because he has no way of getting to work without it? That's a problem for him to resolve. Don't worry, he will. You won't get down to solving the problems that are legitimately yours, while you are solving problems for the ex. He'll figure out how to get around and how to eat, if you leave those problems on his plate where they belong. Type 2 diabetes is usually the outcome of a long span of poor self care. If he runs out of groceries and misses a meal or two, that could benefit his health. Type 2 diabetes comes from eating too much, not too little.

Whether or not your son will have a father is largely outside of your control. Let go of what is not in your control. Focus on what kind of a mom your son has. That is what is your responsibility. Having two parents who are both confused about who is responsible for what is detrimental to your son. It will make him insecure and give him no role model worth emulating. Sooner or later, your son will have to come to terms with having a father who is not responsible. If he knows he can depend on you, he will be able to deal with being disappointed in his father. Your relationship with your son is what you have control over. Sometimes, it is actually better for children to see less and less of a parent who is not fulfilling their role properly. So don't try to manage things so as to create a fictional father who does not exist. Your son needs to understand the reality and not keep hoping for the father you want to magically create for him. You mean well, but you'll get an outcome that you won't like. Lots of children grow up just fine missing one parent or the other. The main thing is that there be one left who has got the act together. (That includes a mom who, if she owns a car, has it at her disposal.)

These "deeply ingrained thoughts" have a better chance of getting changed, if you accept that you are divorced and cut down on a lot of inappropriate involvement with your ex. It is understandable that you are still having a lot to adjust to, since the divorce is very recent. However, there won't be a better time than right now for starting to separate your identity from that of your ex. It's not going to get easier by waiting. He has already moved on to other women, if I remember right. Let him find what help and support he needs from the new woman in his life. If there is no woman at the moment, then that is his problem. He didn't value his marriage to you, and it's now over. There are consequences to that, which he will have to cope with. He can't have his cake and eat it too. Your conversations with him should be business-like for the purpose of co-parenting. They should be brief. Actually, if the judge gave you full custody, I'm not sure what kind of co-parenting is going on. Your son is watching all of this, and he must be having a hard time making sense of it. Keep it simple.