A few nights ago I was talking to my mom about my dad, and she said something that…I don't know how to say it?…surprised? me.

She said,

Your dad didn't want anything to do with you because you were flawed.

She continued on and listed a few things. She said…

1.) I was diagnosed with epilepsy at the age of 2-3 (I forget which one). She said that was when my dad first started to distance himself from me because I was flawed.
2.) I couldn't talk and did speech therapy for 5 years from 2/3 to about 7. A second flaw.
3.) I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome when I was about 10, plus or minus a few years. She said that did it in for him and he couldn't accept me after that, if he could to begin with.

I wanted to ask why he couldn't accept me? I am aware that that might be unanswerable, but I wasn't sure how to share or think about this without there being a question - I think in questions.

P.S. A version of my history of abuse is here.

[IowaFarmGal]

You dad didn't like you because he was flawed. I think it's a huge flaw to be unable to love your children when they need you the most.

[unaluna]

You said in your other post that you couldn't talk to a counselor about stuff. Is that still true? Cuz I have pretty much the same rejection from my mother, but with less abuse - I stayed away from her so she couldn't hit me. But it is taking me a lot of work with my T to change my basic personal reaction from rejection to loving acceptance. I think you can't expect regular people to overcome this in you. We have a lot to learn.

Cos he's a ****.

[-jimi-]

I don't know. Could be many things. Cold be he was narcissistic and thought he had the right to the "best", and a twisted thought could be that a "normal" child is the best. Some people think they have the right to everything and if they don't get it they feel slighted.

Could be like my parents when I was a kid. They didn't abandon me but they tried to change me to be "normal". Because they were so scared, had so much social anxiety that they thought they would be pointed fingers at all day long for not having a normal kid.

Could be that he could have had any kid, and he would have found faults in it (because some people are never happy with what they get).

I guess sometimes people just don't have the parenting gene and unable to bond. I remember watching this show about children born physically different. One kid was born with a really tiny flat nose. The dad in the interview said that when the baby came out of the mother, he didn't think it could be true, and the world was cruel to HIM, to give him this FREAK as a son, he said at first he wanted to throw the baby away! (I was shocked to hear that).

Then there was this couple who got a baby who looked more unusual and there was something not growing right with her scull. She would have to have surgery to survive, but also after surgery she would look more normal. The parents said with a warm voice, that they are doing the surgery so she doesn't die, but the looks, they loved her looks because she was their baby and of course they loved her because... her body and soul.

Two takes of similar issues. Some people are made to be parents. Some are NOT.

[Tenrou]

I've had similar thoughts - I didn't grow up with my dad, he disappeared when I was three or four. He convinced my mother that they were too young for their first child, my sister, and they put her up for adoption. Within the last year I found out that he wanted to do the same thing with me, even though they were older, and my mom put her foot down. Granted, he's never been in my life, so all I have is my mother's word, but she is of the opinion that he wanted the benefits of his marriage to her but none of the responsibility that comes witha child.

I don't know if your situation matches up to mine at all-reading your original post, it doesn't seem like it, but I can in some sense relate - finding out that my father not only gave away my sister but wanted to do the same to me was devastating. I have, in the past year, been able to acknowledge that it, and many other terrifying things from my childhood, wasn't anything to do with me, but with him. He was the one who could 't handle having a child. It wasn't my fault, and what your father did to you wasn't yours either. Children don't have a say in what their parents do or how they behave, but we feel like we do, like it's our fault.

For me it's come to the point that the reasons are irrelevant. My father was unable to care for me like he should have, as a parent, and that wasn't my fault. What happened with yours wasn't your fault, either. I hope that you can find some healing and comfort.

All the best.

[shezbut]

I am so sorry Mr.V

I can only imagine the disappointment and heartache that you're feeling inside. I wonder why your Mom decided to share these issues with you? What is the benefit?? Perhaps you have been asking your Mom about your father ~ wondering where he's been?

Your father is a very selfish man. His reasoning for not staying with you is completely heartbreaking to me! I can't recall if you see a T or not, but I sure would recommend seeing a professional to help you through these dark thoughts and emotions brought up by your Mom.

You are a good man ~ I'm glad that your father is no longer around you, putting you down and withholding his love. He doesn't deserve you! My thoughts are with you...gentle hugs sent your way.

[Lauru]

As others have said, cause he is flawed. He is seriously messed up if he doesn't love his own child. An innocent child who is having difficulties especially. Know there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. It is all about what is wrong with him.

[lizardlady]

Mr. V, I said this in your other thread and others have said it here. Your father not loving you was about HIM, not about YOU. He was in some way flawed so that he not only couldn't love you, but used it to hurt you.

Please talk to your T on Monday. My sense from your posts is that you are ready to start healing from what happened to you. That can be an incredibly scary feeling. If you can't talk to her maybe you could print out your post from the abuse forum and give it to her to read.

I don't know how you feel about hugs.... am offering you one to do with as you chose {*{*{*{*Mr V*}*}*}*}

[Perna]

It was not that he didn't like you; he didn't know you! You can't like/dislike someone you do not know. He did not know how to relate to himself, his own flaws (we all have them) and that he had "produced" a child with flaws was more than he could stand to know about himself. As everyone else has said, it was about him, not you.

[hinzc7711]

As others have said, cause he is flawed. He is seriously messed up if he doesn't love his own child. [I Disagree] no more flawed than over 50% of parents

[I Agree] An innocent child who is having difficulties especially. Know there is absolutely nothing wrong with you.

Take my comments for what they are, by no means am I superior in academia world, nor "highly educated psychologist" .

What I can say is we push away the things that are a challenge to our expectations. We all want the easy road, but the best child. Who can be showcased as top notch without care, love, forgiveness. (TOO MANY DON"T WANT TO DO THE WORK) We want to care for these children, ours especially, but when they take an "over" allotment of time and energy....we push them away.

By merely pulling them in close (time in), giving them what they "need" or "require" to have a chance at success....we find the polished beauty within the agregate of the relationship. A child, our sons and daughters....If we choose to live for them, not with them...a perceived challenge becomes normal and we can love to learn about each-other.

I have not stumbled across this from my success as a parent, it was gifted to me by my wife who follows (google)beyondconsequences (Heather T. Forbes LCSW).

I also have found peace in the work of Russ Harris, "The Reality Slap". This brings change from the inside as Professor Paul Gilbert, PhD who authored "The Compassionate Mind".

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by shezbut

I can't recall if you see a T or not, but I sure would recommend seeing a professional to help you through these dark thoughts and emotions brought up by your Mom.

But not all "professionals" are healing, either.

[wing]

What a sick man. And your mother had no reason to pass that onto you. Many hugs to you, and as you grow, may the pain they caused be worked out by you until it can't hurt you like it does now.
My mother told me if she had known where to get an abortion she would have. I have learned to accept her a cruel and miserable person. It has been a great time of healing for me to accept the situation as it is and care for myself enough to let go of the relationship with her that I dreamed of. Now she's old and I have forgiven her because I want no regrets when she goes.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Mr. Venomous

A few nights ago I was talking to my mom about my dad, and she said something that…I don't know how to say it?…surprised? me.

She said,


She continued on and listed a few things. She said…

1.) I was diagnosed with epilepsy at the age of 2-3 (I forget which one). She said that was when my dad first started to distance himself from me because I was flawed.
2.) I couldn't talk and did speech therapy for 5 years from 2/3 to about 7. A second flaw.
3.) I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome when I was about 10, plus or minus a few years. She said that did it in for him and he couldn't accept me after that, if he could to begin with.

I wanted to ask why he couldn't accept me? I am aware that that might be unanswerable, but I wasn't sure how to share or think about this without there being a question - I think in questions.

P.S. A version of my history of abuse is here.

From what you have described about your father, I feel that he did not have the ability to cope or care about "any child" never mind a child with special needs. I bet that he most likely was abused or neglected himself and his father failed him too.

Most likely the anger he expressed to you was out of his "fear", when men have fear, they often respond with "anger".

When I was growing up, my older brother had problems, but at that time nothing was known about learning disabilities or Autism/Asburgers. And my brother was a difficult child and my father's answer was "discipline in a shed out back". Now that I look back, today I am sure a neighbor would have reported the way my father treated my brother as "child abuse".

One day years later I was out on my father's small boat with him and after he had a couple of beers (I knew that was when I could talk to him) we talked about my brother. Things were being learned about troubled children and he was slowly realizing the way he handled my brother was wrong. He told me that when he got married and had children, he had no idea "how to be a father". He told me that his father was hardly ever around, and was an alcoholic, so he really didn't have anyone to show him or teach him how to be a parent.
Then he wept, and that was something I never saw him do, and he talked about wishing he had been a better father and helped my brother more. He said that my brother was just so difficult and didn't want to do or take interest in whatever he tried to do with him and it was very frustrating.

I didn't tell my father that my brother abused me, I always felt that it would just hurt my parents. But I was really moved by the fact that my father truely felt guilty about how poorly he raised his son. And my brother is still holding onto anger for my father. He does talk to him, but the conversation has a tone of my brother needing to "put my father down" somehow. I have told my father that he will express his anger, and that all my father can do is appologize and tell my brother he is proud of how he managed to overcome so much and make his way.

I think that your father was an angry, confused, and frightened man.
He most likely felt like a failure himself, and he could not seem to "drink it away either". And I am sure that he never even asked for any kind of help either and as you know he ended his life.

I know you struggle with questioning "if your father hated you" but you have to understand that, he didn't know "how" to love and raise a child. And when you talk to your mother and ask her these questions, you have to also realize that you are asking a woman that didn't know how to deal with so many things either.

When you are working through your challenges and the PTSD V, you have to try your best to step outside your own pain and low self worth/anger, and see the "real picture". And that isn't always easy, because it can be "really sad", I have been struggling with that myself.

There will be certain things you have to "forgive" too, because you will begin to realize that your parents were "ignorant" people and that did cost you and resulted in how you are challenged today. And there is also going to be a certain amount of "anger" that comes out too.

The other thing that you have to also realize is that many of the things you feel are also felt by a lot of other people too. And that is also sad and so "wasteful".

I put up that song that Michael Jackson wrote and sang. Well, look at him. His father was "abusive" too. He was a very "gifted" child, very sensitive and even though he was in the lime light, he was often very lost and didn't really have a "normal" childhood. In a way, he self harmed too because he was constantly trying to change his appearance. And I honestly think he suffered from PTSD too, because he often used drugs to dull his inner pain and shut it off somehow.

He was also "very misunderstood" and I personally don't think he abused children, I think he was just constantly trying to find a way to "fix" the child in himself that never really felt safe. I don't think he felt at all comfortable about sex either, that was a very confused area in him. He at least was able to "talk through his songs" and was a very creative soul searching person. But I honestly feel that he never truely found his way to finally feeling "balanced" inspite of his personal history. He was after all, only human.

It is important that you understand V, that the list you have that I wrote out, is a list that "many" people have. You are not as "separte" from, as you may think. And we are all designed to "learn and share knowledge", and that is what really ends up bringing "balance". It isn't about what we think are our limitations either, it is about learning how we "can" find out how each of us "does learn and achieve" because there really is no "norm or one way we learn".

Often when people feel alone and don't understand why others will not "listen" or "help them or give to them" the answer is mostly that people just don't know "how" to help others, or even themselves.

Our understanding of the "human brain" is really just in it's infancy right now. We have made so much progress in the past ten years alone. However, there is still a lot of "ignorance" in society right now.

As I learn about my own "challenges" V, I can see all the times I expressed "the warning signs that I was being abused". And I can see all the times I was "further abused and misunderstood". It has been really hard for me to finally see that about myself. My parents are in their late 80's now and I look at them so differently now, because I can see their "ignorance" and not only how it hurt me, but how it hurt them too. And they are too old now for me to share with them what I have learned too. And I have to simply just accept the fact that there will be things they will just never really know.

It is easy for anyone to reply to you, "your father was a sick mean man and blame him, curse him, ect" But that is "placing anger and blame" and not taking the time to connect all the dots.

It is not just about seeing the "victim" in ourselves, it is also about understanding the "victims" that have hurt us too. And as we begin to understand and slowly walk away from our "own ignorance" we can begin to find more balance, and even do what we are really designed to do as human beings, and that is "share" our wisdom and growth with others.

Open Eyes

My son has two out of three of your "flaws". He was nonverbal at 5 and is still in speech at 15 and was diagnosed with Asperger's at 4 or 5. I'll admit, he's been a challenge at times and we were hard on disciplining him at first because we didn't understand, but we love him just the same. I'm sorry you've had such a hard time and that your dad didn't love you.

[Piraeus]

My situation was a little different. My Dad played favorites between me and my younger brother. He never liked me. I always wanted him to accept me for what I was. My Dad was killed at age 42, so I never had a chance to make him proud of me.

I think he would be proud. My last job I was working as an engineer without a degree in engineering. My job was very interesting. My Dad was an electrical engineer.I looked up to him. I did make a lot of mistakes growing up,so I kind of understand why he may not be so proud of me. But that's the past and I can't do anything about that.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

But not all "professionals" are healing, either.

Yes, this is true, unfortunately. Not all T's, have the "right" skills and with PTSD that stretches back to child abuse, it is important to have a T that not only understands what is called "complex PTSD" but is also experienced with treating it. Sooo important because a T has to understand that a patient will be angry and confused, and the patient feeling "safe" with the T is very important.

Now that I am at a point where I understand it so much better myself, I can definitely look back and see the errors some of the T's made with me, things they missed and how they misunderstood me.

I do my own research too V, and I talk to my T about what I read too.
T's, learn from us too, and so it is important we understand that "therapy" is also about "team work".

Last night I happened to watch an episode of "Blue Bloods" and the story line was about a cop that killed someone because that person drew a weapon, and because he killed someone, he was "tramatized" and he found out that the man he killed set the situation up so he could "suicide by cop".

Well, during the program he was sent to a therapist to make sure he was not developing PTS that could turn into PTSD. And that scene was at the most five minutes and that therapist told him the symptoms and talked about "agression and the bargaining and running the event over and over in the mind looking for a different outcome". Now, after I experienced the ongoing trama of losing animals from my neighbor's dog, I broke down. I was taken to a psychward and I constantly asked for "rest and grief counceling". I was there for 9 days, and never once did anyone talk to me like that therapist in that program. No one talked to my family and told them I was experiencing PTS, and they also let my older sister come and visit me and "yell at me". It is really hard for me to look at my records, because they have everything I said in writing, and see how they completely missed "very clear red flags". I was finally sent home to an angry family(who no one talked to) and injured animals and had to go right back into "hypervigilant" mode. And "all" the warning signs discussed with the parents of Newtown as warning signs of behavior showing dangerous problems that need immediate attention , are all the stages I went through myself, but my family either ignored it or was mean to me.

So yes, there is still alot of "ignorance" even from those who are supposed to be the "professionals".
So it is important to do "research" yourself and ask questions to make sure "the professional that is supposed to know how to treat you, actually knows what he/she is doing.

V, I do respect the fact that you are "again" reaching out for help and are "trying". And that really needs to happen, because when someone is challenged with "Asbergers" or another disability, when they don't "communicate" we are often left only guessing and we don't actually "learn" from them.

When I watched the "response" to this latest Newtown trajedy, I saw alot of blaming and "ignorance" to be honest. And I am still seeing that. IMO, a young boy had needs that were not understood or met and he spiraled down into isolating himself, and most likely harbored a lot of anger that he "imploded and exploded". And IMO, when he found out his mother was going to have him "commited" and he was going to be taken out of the little world he had, he "exploded". Whatever "was" wrong with him, obviously, his parents didn't know how to really "help him" with. And there were most likely badly missed opportunities that he could have been helped but wasn't. And unless we learn how to see these troubled children, and "help them" we will continue to experience some of these tragic events when they "explode"in a way that we are totally confused and have ignorant explainations for, often may even call "evil acts".

When we ask for help, we also give others the opportunity to learn too. So it is important to remember, that yes, sometimes others will not have "the quick answers" we are looking for, and sometimes as we include others in our efforts to understand ourselves, we also actually teach others about our needs too. You have talked about what you have tried an felt has not yet helped you, well, you have to keep trying and as you do find things that help you, you can share whatever you learn with others. That is a "big deal" because as we do that, we also take away some of the "ignorance".
Open Eyes

[Vibe]

Your dad had some serious issues. I can't diagnose him from the given information, so I don't know why he thought of and treated you the way he did. However, I did read enough to know that the answer lies within him; not you.

Children often deify their parents, as if their word was the ultimate law of the universe. It takes them a long time to realize that their parents are just flawed human beings like everybody else.

I hope you are past this stage and can come to terms with this truth. If you base your self-image and worth on his view of you, then you will make yourself miserable.

[Open Eyes]

I can tell you for a "fact" V that you are "not" the only young man that struggles because a "father" honestly didn't know how to be a "father" and connect with his son. This is a big problem and there are "sooo many" young boys that end up "really struggling because of this" and most of them "abuse self and others and even hide out in some way".

You can be one of them, or, you can stand in front of everyone, show your scars and talk about what results from the way fathers do not know how to be fathers to their sons.

Right now I have a nephew that has Autism/Asbergers and his father came from a very disfunctional family himself. His father is at a point where he has become abusive to his family and himself. This boy knows that daddy is not good, but he doesn't understand "why" and every night this boy and his older sister sleep with mother because they are afraid their father will hurt their mother. The father is "not" getting help, and the mother wants to find a way to get away from him.

The father is only getting worse and even drinks and is "not" getting any help and this is a bad situation for the children. This happens alot, and it always "scars" the children in ways we often do not see. I would not be surprised if this young boy, ends up having similar problems that you are having.

We have not been showing "society" the voice of the damaged children that is taking place. It is time for these people like you to have a voice, but not in the way they have been talking which often is expressed in "violence".

You "can" choose to have a voice V, but a positive voice. We are obviously not paying attention if we continue to have so many that suffer. Both in the "fathers" and in the son's they hurt out of "ignorance".

Open Eyes

[Lauru]

Hinzc As others have said, cause he is flawed. He is seriously messed up if he doesn't love his own child. [I Disagree] no more flawed than over 50% of parents

I would argue that just because it is common, does not mean it is not also flawed and seriously messed up.

[Big Mama]

hey. I am so sorry you are on the receiving end of this. My son has aspurgers. When my family went threw some of the crap it did we had an in home counselor. Upon talking to my H she did not realize we had 3 children. He never made mention of our middle child(w/ asp.) He never tried to have a connection w/ him. He wanted to sometimes but got very discouraged or angry becuase he was different. W/ T my H has seen what his attitude towards kids, our kids, have done to them. He tried liking what he likes, he tried devoting the same amount of solo time s/ him as he does w/ the ohter children. My son still aggravates him alot but he is trying. I have to tell my H when to stop, when to just listen, when to agree to disagree, not to fuss at him for samll things that are not really gonna make a difference. It is helping my son to feel more accepted. He is 13. This happened when he was 12. He didn't realize his dad felt that way. I have no intention of telling him.

Half the problem is w/ his dad. It is not that his son is flawed it is that his dad doesn't know how to deal w/ someone who is different. Just like alot of poeple do not, people you might meet, people your randomly run across, even people you have known for a long time. It is not anything against you. It is the comfortableness your dad feels w/ his abilities to be a parent and not knowing how to react and deal w/ things that are out of his comfort zone.

[edward6]

I stopped asking that question about my father when I realized how whacko he really was. He hated kids, and he hated me, so what? He wasn't a god, he was a kook. I now have far less emotional attachment to his memory coz I realize what he wasn't. We give our parents far too much reverence when they're just fallible creatures like ourselves.

[yellowted]

you need a licence to own a dog, drive a car and even to go fishing, but any axxhole can have kids!parental love should be unconditional, but unfortunately as many on this site know many parents are flawed in this area.
my real dad left because i was a girl and mothers second husband (i refuse to call him anything other than this or the axxhole!) abused me in every sense of the wordfor over 9 years!
some parents are so concerned aboth their own feelings and looks that they forget their kids have feelings too!
for me knowing they never loved me made it easier to dismiss any thoughts around loving them. i despise them both and really do not care if they know that or not.
believe me life is too short to be worrying over those who don't care about you, concentrate on those who make you feel good

[NoCake]

It doesn't matter. As long as you like you everything will be fine.

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Mr. V, I said this in your other thread and others have said it here. Your father not loving you was about HIM, not about YOU. He was in some way flawed so that he not only couldn't love you, but used it to hurt you.

I agree with this.
I often feel as if my father never liked me, but how can someone not like an innocent, sweet and vulnerable child? I think the truth is, for my father and yours, is that they never liked themselves.

Your father's striving for perfectionism was most likely an overcompensation for his own flaws. But that perfectionism may not have alleviated his struggles with them...he could find an external source for his anger and a comprehensible way to displace it in you...thus you were most likely the scapegoat for his own failings.
Parents often try to live vicariously through their children (thus setting very high standards) to achieve things they were never able to. Your father expected perfection and (because he was far from perfect) would direct his dissapointment at his imperfection onto you. I do not think honestly, Mr. V, that you were rejected because you were 'flawed'...there's nothing 'flawed' about you...if there is well, we're all a bunch of 'flawed' humans making mistakes and blundering through life.

I think your father may have had very low self-esteem and wanted to alleviate it vicariously (that's where you come in). Unfortunately, you're now left to pick up the pieces...I'm so sorry

I've experienced similar feelings.

Either way my insect-loving friend. Anyone can be a parent...cockroaches breed afterall. Sometimes I think they make better parents than people.
Much love.