struggling and alone

i'm in a horrible place right now, nowhere to go, nowhere to turn. i don't have a therapist so please do not tell me to talk to a therapist, that is not possible right now.
i posted here because i do have ptsd, though i'm not sure where this belongs. i posted here because i feel my current feelings have to do with the ptsd. not sure though.
am really angry and just upset. i feel like crying, screaming, shouting, hitting. just do all of it at once, explode.
i hate it when people talk about wanting to kill themselves or hurt themselves. i just hated. i hate being around them. i'm in a support group and almost everytime i go someone discusses this. i sent the leader an email regarding this. she said stay away if your triggered. so i did, then returned.
i'm so angry because i cannot get pass this issue, i can't overcome it, try as i might. i hear these people talking about this and am instantly angered, i have to leave. the group is beginning to hate me, i think. i feel like they don't understand me, or even try to understand. all these emotions and feelings. it's pure hell for me and i feel like nobody cares, they don't care to even try to understand. the group is for child abuse survivors...a lot of times they talk about wanting to die and self harming.
i belong in the group. but i also have a history with suicide as well as self harm. my brother hung himself in my mom's garage. suicide is not an option for me, i feel like i have suffered a great deal and do not wish to impose this pain on the people who love me. i fight so hard everyday to merely survive and it feels unfair that i no longer have this support group. i just want to give up on everything. live in a hole. i don't know what to do at all. thank you for listening.

Hello, haier. You are very courageous. Is there any other group you could try?

Please know you are in my thoughts.

((((haier)))),

It sounds like you are expressing the symptoms of PTSD to me. I too had so many emotions all at once and didn't know how to cope with it. Yes, I felt very lonely and overwhelmed myself as well. Haier, this is going to take time for you to come to where you can slowly get to a point where you can settle down some. You have a lot to work through, I am so sorry about your brother.

In the group that you are talking about, often other people talk about suicide because they just don't know what to do with all their inner turmoil. It is a way of releasing these feelings and doubts about their lives. It is better to talk it out and hear some options rather then hold it in. But I can understand how that might trigger you, I encountered that in the psychward I was in and at the time I didn't find it helpful either.

At first the important thing to do is to allow yourself to express the emotions that come with all this inner turmoil, instead of just holding it all in allowing it to churn inside you. Is there a different support group that you may fit into better? I am just asking because you DO need support in working through this. I didn't have the funds myself for a while and at the time I didn't realize it was just going to build up inside me. It wasn't until I finally found a therapist that worked on a sliding scale that I could scrouge enough to get some help, when I started to make some progress.

But the answer to your question is that YES, eventually you can work through all these emotions that are coming forward, the confusion, and the instablilty you have right now can all calm down. The first thing you need is what you have, DESIRE to get beyond this, that has to be there and constant, the WILL to keep trying inspite of the hurtles. And I am not going to lie haeir, there will be hurtles, ones that regular people who have never experienced PTSD are not going to understand. In that it can be lonely, and that is when you have to find others that like you, have maintained a desire to work through this difficult disorder.

When we experience things in our lives that truely effects our sense of safety, our brains struggle to find ways to react as well as take the necessary steps to learn HOW to slowly re-establish some sense of safety, this really takes time haier. Each person is different depending on what they have experienced that has caused them to be confused and lost and as you are discribing, very emotional.

The plain truth is that this is going to take you time to work through. You have to talk and talk and express all your feelings and then get to a point where you grieve what you need to grieve of your past that are big disappointments in the things you have experienced thus far. I say disappointments but it is a bit more than that, as you know.

I am still working through things myself but I can say that I am in a much better state of mind than I was last year. I can say that support is essential along with an atmosphere where you can feel safe, even if it is just a bedroom that is quiet and safe. This is a tiring process and so rest is important as well. And that doesn't always mean sleep but quiet rest and the mindset of knowing that for as long as it takes you will be patient and kind to yourself and not be angry with yourself for experiencing something that you cannot help right now.

I used PC alot myself, and I didn't just talk about my issues. I addressed others along with different topics and that helped my just use my brain to just process one step at a time away from my own issues. But some people use reading to help their brains quiet down some too. We cant just pound away at the immediate big problems we have to solve. It is good to think about other things too. I even watch TV sometime as well, and I pick out things that are either light hearted or even documentary type things to think about.

haeir, you can always start a thread and just pound some thoughts away here and we can listen, but just remember we are not therapists. But we can listen and tell you what we do in our ways of working through our PTSD symptoms.

Does the councelor that heads the support group have any other advice in how you can get some therapy? Keep trying to find some help, and in the meantime you can also come here and talk as much as you need, as long as you understand that we are not therapists. But we DO LISTEN and SUPPORT as much as we can.

I spent a lot of time researching PTSD and I probably have quiet a few posts where I try to define it, and put it into words. I don't know, I just seemed to need to do that as well as understand what it means as well as ways I can help myself work through it.

So take some time to read about it haier as well. And continue to BE KIND AN PATIENT WITH YOURSELF.

((((Big supportive HUGS for you haier)))))
Open Eyes

thank you for hugs rose. di meliora and open eyes thank you. i guess i just needed to be heard. i think this is part of the ptsd. it has to be or else it wouldn't be such a big deal for me right? i know you are not therapist, i'm not looking for therapy, just need to be heard. maybe some suggestions. yea i've been trying to look for a new group. i have issues. just wanted to feel some support. thank you. i appreciate it. i know neither i, nor you or anyone else for that matter can do anything about it, that's what makes my fight so hopeless. therapist issues don't help. hanging in there, no worries. just gotta hang for a little bit, i'm sure it will pass. thanks anyways.

(((Haier))))

I am glad you came and just talked, that is what you need, to be reassured and heard. We are here to listen when you need the support. I know that it is just so helpful to be heard and know that you are not alone. I am glad you let out some anger too, that is important, just talk if you need to.

((((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

(((Haier))) may angels surround you. Maybe a support group for family members who lost loved ones to sui* might be more helpful for ypu right now? Hugs if that' s ok

Hi Haier,

Everything you said makes perfect sense... it seems all very normal to me (well my kind of normal anyway lol).

Survivor groups are at their core, people brought together because of their wounds. Survivor groups can be helpful. It is healing when people "get" what we are talking about without explanation and accept us with our scars. We can tend to drop our mask at a survivors group.

I do think we can tend to outgrow them though, as we begin to develop ways to manage our own sufferering. When others still seem, and feel, so lost in themselves, it can be draining - no matter how much compassion we may have for them and their suffering.

Health groups tend to be a lot healthier. People are drawn together by their commitment to lead a healthy life. - and there is usually less drama in them. You might join yoga, aqua aerobics, zumba, healthy cooking classes, dancing (line, latin, ballroom, jazz), sports (netball, softball, tennis, golf, soccer). Interest groups like genealogy, local history, art appreciation, poetry groups, astronomy, travelling, music lessons are also good.

I generally have my well friends and my struggling friends because both are so important to me.

All the above activities can also help your inner feelings to be expressed safely and constructively. There is a time for validating one self and sitting with the pain, and there is a time for fun, laughter, silliness, learning, and growing.

You have had a lot of loss - and it has NOT been clean loss either - it has been complicated, with issues left unresolved (((hugs)))

It is no wonder you feel triggered by suicidal talk when you know only too well what it is like to be on the receiving end of it. If you really wanted to go back to the group, there is nothing to stop you sharing about suicide of a family member. You will be able to give group members more awareness about the consequences of suicide for their loved ones. Your experience is pretty powerful.

I disagree with the facilitator that suicide be the focus of the group - management of suicidality, yes - but I don't think allowing oneself to be so consumed by the suicidal state that it takes over is healthy.

I think emotional expression is vital - but not to the point where we lose control of those emotions. I think we need to learn to be able to turn our emotions up and down according to what is best for our health.

Well I hope you enjoyed reading the Jade book lol. My function is getting better so I will be spending less time on the computer soon

Let us know how today has been for you.

Much Love,

Me x

open eyes, likewater and living well i appreciate the responses. sometimes just having someone say they hear you helps. likewater i am in a group for suicide survivors, it's not the same though. i am addressing certain feelings but it's almost like both groups clash in themselves...for example in the suicide survivors group, which both my sis and i are members, everyone that's there now, they're loved ones either did it because they had a mental illness or it was something out of character for them. my sis and i, we just look at each other sometimes because my brother did it because of what we went through growing up. we haven't been able to bring this up. there's a lot of mother's whose sons did it and it just feels uncomfortable to bring up abuse history. i know it would probably be helpful but right now the trust level is not very high. so in suicide group i can't talk about abuse and in abuse group, i HAVE talked about my brother and the consequences abuse had for him, i've expressed my feelings about having him die that way and i just feel like nobody cares. when the next person is up to talk they go into this. i've tried to sit through these talks, the leader allows for them to talk about it, no matter how desparing they sound, she thinks it's healthy to get these feelings out. i agree but the thing is nothing really productive comes out of it, they don't talk about ways to improve or anything. it's almost like they just focus on the bad. livingwell you said it, it no longer feels healthy. everyone in this group has a therapist, i don't understand why they just don't discuss this in therapy instead of bringing it to a group where we're supposed to be discussing abuse. i just feel like i go to this group because i want to feel validated, heard, i want someone to tell me it wasn't my fault and that i'm an ok person. hearing people talking about self hatred, self harming, and suicide only makes me come out of the group depressed. i'm upset too because they've seen me leave several times, we are supposed to support each other, nobody has reached out to me and asked what is so triggering. nobody cares. i guess that's what bothers me that nobody ever cares. it just plain sucks. 3wks ago the therapist cancelled on me and now i can't go back because i have issues. i called once and didn't get a call back. i feel like an asshole. i feel like these people don't like me and they don't even care to know what the heck is my problem. i know i will get through this, i keep telling myself i will be ok and i will get through it. i know, i came this far, i can go even farther. it's just the pain and frustration eats at my soul in the process. normally i would be doing all those things you suggested living well, i love zumba, i've gotten into dancing groups, i love to scrapbook and used to go to seminars all the time. lately though i've had a lot of things come up for me, i am trying to deal the best i can. i really am. i don't know why it's so hard right now. therapy was going good and then that happened and now i'm just stuck. i don't mean to sound negative, i feel negative but i don't want to feed into it. I WILL BE OK. i will find a way out, don't have a plan yet. i think i just gotta sit with this for awhile. my brain feels overloaded right now. PC is all i have right now where i feel safe to talk and express what i really feel. i apppreciate everyone here. thank you so much for listening and trying to help me figure this out. you guys are all great and i admire your strength and draw from it.

(((Haier))) you are in a tough situation. I'm sorry the others' in your group can' t see past their own pain to address yours. I REALLY think you should speak up. Seeing the pain sui** caused a former bfriend when he lost younger brother cemented my decision to never take that path. Your pain is probably the deepest imaginable. It could help those in your group to " wake up and smell the coffee " a little. There is a world outside THEIR pain and they have value. They eould be missed terribly like your brother and create a hole in the universe. Their actions and even words can cause pain. Sending you love. My dog sends kisses.

awww....warmed my heart. you're too sweet. i appreciate it.

i have thought about bringing this issue up, that's why i emailed the leader first. she does not think it's a good idea to bring it up. with survivors of abuse there tends to be this pattern where they flock to drama. we are so used to living this way, that's why we see cycles and patterns always being repeated, conflict is a magnet for us.
once a member expressed lack of support and i agreed and expressed my sincere opinion, i had barely joined the group and everybody got all huffy and puffy over it. i think that's when they started hating me. they don't like what i have to say a lot of the times. i feel like i try really hard to be positive and move forward with feelings, something i don't see in the group. i've tried talking to the other leaders also and i feel like they think either i don't belong or am not ready for group. sucks. maybe they are right. i do have a lot of issues. a lot. but like i said, i'm trying, i'm not just sitting trying to be miserable my whole life, i am trying to live. i just want to be at that point where life feels good. where all the ugliness can be put behind without the fear. thank you, i will be ok. just gotta keep telling myself this.

Yes, haier, I hear what you are saying and even what you mean by it. I can also relate to feeling like no one is hearing you, reaching out to you and you are trying so hard to find your way to that process.

Being in a group of people who are just focusing on how their lives have failed them and are dwelling on their desire to give up altogether is not really productive. The person that is running that group needs to get these people to look behind these feelings to what created these feelings to begin with. And that is what YOU want.
Yes, you need to discuss your history and the environment that you grew up in that was toxic. You already know that it effected your brother so profoundly that he just gave up, or into his feelings that there was no real way out for him. And often by allowing people to hold onto these feelings, it may prevent them from seeing that what they are feeling is normal, but they CAN get past that. And what I hear from you is that YOU BELIEVE THAT TOO. You want to progress and the group is stuck.

When I started therapy I did have a couple of set backs as well with my therapist.
I made it clear that he HAD to believe me and that if he didn't it was going to be a waste of time for both him and me. And there were some schedule problems and sometimes he forgot things I had discussed with him too. I was building a profile with him so he could truely observe my history and when he failed to remember things, I did get upset and began to wonder if he was truely going to be able to respect what I was trying to lay out for him. As soon as he showed any kind of not remembering, to me that meant he was invalidating me in some way.

The most important part of recovery work for someone with such a troubling history as well as the PTSD condition that is present, is validation. Especially for a victim of abuse because they were never truely validated. So I can't blame you for not wanting to have to focus on the discussions that just focus on the desire to give up. While it is important to let that emotion out, it is important to get behind why that emotion is presenting itself.

Haier, when I first presented with PTSD, feeling like you are describing, I was alot like you are describing you are at right now. And I did feel very far a way from other people and also felt that other people would not understand what I was experiencing. I had a hard time understanding it myself. And I will say that at first it is important to have the opportunity to talk about everything that happened in my life that I struggled with. And I relived it in a way I didn't know the brain could relive things I experienced. And after I finally experienced the emotional journey of my life that I had not realized had been saved in my brain, I finally got to a point where I could begin to see what that truely meant to me, how I managed to survive in spite of it.

I started a thread called the "PTSD toolbox" where I began to express what kind of tools I had created to find a way to survive the abuse that had taken place in my environment. And by seeing what I did manage to muster up, I also got to see what wasn't there as well. But to be honest, doing that made me realize that I had progressed. I realized the only way I could get to my own tool box, was to first discuss my past.

Haier, that is what you and your sister need to do as well. You have to lay your history, your family history all on the table including all the emotions you experienced during this time as well. You both have to be validated that this history took place as well. And then as I have been doing, you have to be able to look at it, how it effected you, and what you can both do to begin to recover from whatever is there.

For me haier, I had to put my own cards on the table but I also had to put the people around my childhood's cards on the table too. I had to see who they were and some of the whys behind them as well. This took me a while to accomplish. And during that time I was constantly struggling, even with feeling depressed, lost, and lack of a sense of any real direction in my life.

When I came to PC, I didn't go to the depression forum, I knew I was feeling depressed but I also knew I didn't want to feed into it either. I still feel it and I still don't want to feed into it. So I can truely understand why that therapy group is not helping you. And the fact that everyone in that group is so self absorbed and not really capable of validating you right now, that is no plus for you either. Because you DO need to have that happen, both you and your sister need that to take place.

Both you and your sister really need to talk, talk, talk, talk about your past. And you need someone, even a group to listen, listen, validate, listen and listen. And you also need to be comforted along the way.

Now I have seen some members here have threads where they talk and express thier fears and emotions and other members listen. There is a thread at the very top of the forums where a couple of members are sharing that way. And I have seen some of this happen in the abuse forum and PTSD forum as well. It IS helpful to be able to have a place to do this. But the best scenario is to also have a therapist that can physically be there for you as well.

You also need to be able to feel SAFE while you are doing this as well.
It doesn't sound like the group you are visiting with your sister is helping and being directed to discuss their history other then their strong feelings about not being able to handle life. Abuse victims all feel that way, but the therapy comes in by getting to the history that led up to these strong emotions. That is the kind of group you need, a better director that can get the groups to open up and talk about their backgrounds more.

All I can say is you have to be patient and continue to look for the right kind of theraputic situation that is actually going to help you get to what you need to discuss.

(((((hugs and saying I hear you)))))
Open Eyes

Haier, You have the right to your feelings no matter what they are. I can empathizes with you about the leaders trying to make this about you instead about their inability to lead a diverse group in harmony. It is remarkable that you seem to be able to understand that it is not about you, and it isn't. It is the leaders responsibility to help a group learn to grow and adapt, they are not doing that if they allow them to dwell on SU week after week, nor are they helping them to understand how to meet the needs of all the members of the group by denying even one.

I'm glad you found Psych central. Welcome.

i just want to say, when i first wrote this..or decided to write about this, i didn't think anybody would really care to comment. i am feel so much better having gotten it out. it really is helping so much. thank you open eyes and sidestepper. i really feel so much support here, i feel like all of you are on my side and it just feels so good right now. half the time i don't trust my feelings because i know i still have so much to work on but here these last few days i feel a sense of validation, that maybe it's not me and it just feels good.
honestly, i really like this group. it took me a long time to feel ok with it. before i would've never joined a group like this...i've been on PC for a long time and couldn't even share here. i've come such a long way. i'm doing a lot now that i would've never done before and for once in my life i'm actively trying to work on myself. i think this is why it's so hard right now, cause i'm alive finally. i'm actually feeling..it's not always pleasant but i'm not numb anymore. i'm beginning to find my voice. i had lost it for such a long time. thank you all so much. you are all wonderful and magnificent. i know we will make it out ok, almost like we're in a war fighting, no man left behind.
you all inspire me, you lift me. i care about all of you.
i don't think i will leave this group just yet. i think i will stick it out a while longer. i would like to set an example for them, show them life doesn't have to be all about the gloom. i'm a lot younger than most of them, so they're used to living this way. i highly doubt any of them really are suicidal, i think it's their way of indirectly asking to be cared for. i think that's why i'm bothered cause i sense this. i think this is important for me, to learn to separate them from my self. learn NOT to internalize this. i will keep you guys posted. i am determined to beat this, for once i think i deserve to have support and this issue is just a way of me telling myself i don't deserve it, there's so much guilt in me surrounding my brother's death that i think it presents itself in different ways.
the suicide group...just between us..the mom's deny..but i think it goes deeper. i don't talk about our abuse history because i don't want to unravel their world. that's why my sis and i look at each other. i can't help but wonder what was so horrible these young men had to take their lives. a fight with the girlfriend doesn't seem to fit...i think it goes way deeper. denial is horrible. thankfully i'm slowly coming out of it.
once again i thank you all. you are warriors and i'm so proud to be a part of this community.

Haier, all I know is I am grateful for you and the others here on this forum. I have not yet found a therapist...not much choice in my area. Until a few days ago, when I joined this forum, I had never been able to talk about any of this...no one would listen. Thank you.

Haier; You have a remarkable voice. Hang in there and good luck.

Spider, I could say the same thing, and I think that most, if not all of us feel this lonliness in our experience with PTSD. And even when I was first diagnosed, I didn't realize the way this disorder was going to progress to where I have struggled so much this past year. I could never have imagined what I experience now, and there is a knowing that other people are going to not get it at all. And I have made many efforts to try to discribe how crippling it is and my family just doesn't get it. My husband has sat with my therapist, but I don't think he realizes that this is not just a quick fix get over it deal I am working through. This can be so crippling and exhausting and consuming and it has to be addressed and there is NO over night cure, it is not a walk in the park, it a definite journey and the length of this journey depends on the quality of therapy and amount of additional outside/surrounding stress or lack of support/understanding of others.

Yes, it is nice to be able to talk with someone else that knows that this is no picnic and it is a real challenge, there is a lot to it. People in general know so little about it, unless you read about it, it rarely is discussed in depth in society.

Here is an example. I tend to visit the abuse forum as well and offer my support there too. But this morning there was a question that I tried to answer, but it triggered me. And now, I am experiencing body memories and extreme anxiety and it is exhausting me. I want to go up to my room, get in bed, get warm and try to calm myself and self sooth. I am trying to overcome it, but it is a challenge TO overcome these intrusive triggers like I am having now. I have things I have to get done today, but all I want to do right now is go up to my bed and get warm and try to calm down until I can get it to pass somehow.

If my husband came in the door? I want to hide it because I HONESTLY DONT THINK HE WILL TRUELY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING INSIDE ME. But the members in the forum know don't you? And I feel like I want cry like a baby too. And the sad part is that that troubled child is still there inside me, I don't just remember her, I can feel the depths of her. The average person doesn't understand what this is like, THIS IS VERY HARD. I have to remember from EXPERIENCE that this will pass and I will eventually calm down again, but it may take a while, I HAVE TO BE PATIENT AND KIND TO MYSELF. Yes, it is frustrating and VERY LONELY, just it was years ago. But I have to KEEP MYSELF FROM FEEDING INTO IT and WORK ON SELF SOOTHING, even though I am alone and other than others here that can relate, there is no one outside PC that I have in my life that CAN TRUELY RELATE. Now I do have a therapist that knows that I am struggling, BUT HE HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED IT FOR HIMSELF.

I wish alot that there was more exposure to what this really feels like. I imagine how I would make a movie that could show the average person what it is like to experience PTSD. That way maybe other people would have a lot more respect and understanding for those that struggle with it. And maybe people would think twice about what can happen to children who are abused, neglected etc. too.

I am tired of trying explain it and feel like others will not get it or believe how much of a struggle/challenge it really is for me. NO, I CANT "JUST" push it away or deal with it like most people manage to deal with unpleasent things.

All I know is that I have a busy weekend and I have to try to get prepared for it and get through it somehow even though right now, I am exhausted and trying to get through this trigger that is all about a little girl and feeling it in a way most people simply do not understand.

Open Eyes

I've never seen that 'feeling' put into words. Body memories....exactly. How on earth do we explain that to some one who never had 'em!??

My first experience with PTSD was my x husb, who had Viet Nam/combat PTSD, not to mention being brutalized by a SOB father. It was about 1981, PTSD was just being mentioned publicly. I contacted vet groups, all of it trying to get him some help ( never thinking I was going thru the same thing 'cause I'd never been in a war!) He refused help and died two years ago from it all and his self abuse.

Anyway, I was one of his triggers. When my son was born (april, 1976) an x boyfriend turned up at the hospital when they were prepping me for delivery and my husb ran into him and ASSUMED the guy was there because I was delivering HIS child...NOT! He was there because he had gotten someone else pregnant and she was delivering the SAME day. As I continued in labor for hours, no one could find my husband, he went to the nearest bar and got drunk. Every HAPPY day of my life always turned out to be a nightmare, always! He wouldn't even come to the hospital to see me or our child. He put me thru HELL for the next three years about our son not being his, blah, blah...He abused drugs, he cheated, he hit me, insulted me, all of it. He couldn't even tell me why he was so angry with me. It finally came out and he realized he was wrong BUT the 'feeling' never went away. Every time he looked at me, he was angry, sad, felt betrayed. He said he knew better, but he just couldn't stop that 'feeling'. Needless to say, our family was destroyed and I have never gotten over the trauma of that day either. As the years went on, I forgave him, and with every year he hated me more.

Body Memories. Yes, indeed.
The SOB's are deadly!

Wow Spider, I am sorry you went through that, I am sure you probably didn't really understand your husband's PTSD either. That was quite a few years ago and they have gained more knowledge now. But the awareness still leaves so much to be desired. I wont be happy until people who are struggling with PTSD get the right respect and support they really need.

You were quite a survivor Spider, lots of spunk for such a petite lady.

((((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

Hey haier. I'm sorry for your and your sister's loss. You both are trying so hard, going to two groups. I find real life groups difficult also, I kinda prefer PC, where you select members from all over the world. I feel I have run up against the same things as you describe, in a way, with my friends - if their kids have issues, they don't really want to hear anything from me about my mother. But I can tell they're not even hearing me, they're thinking about their own stuff. Anyway, have you tried ACOA or any other AA related groups? Sometimes those are depressing too, but there is less crosstalk (advice)?

Try to understand that the other people in your group are sick too. Go in with blinders on to do your work and that's it.

I will however say that I have watched people in therapy groups continue to stay very sick. I tried all kinds of therapy for decades including DBT and kept having to go to hospitals, etc. I never got well.

Have you ever considered Adult Children of Alcoholics? Many people also go there whose parents did NOT drink, there was just major dysfunction.

You will make friends and find actual work to do to grab on to, some action you can take about your situation. You will find some tolerance and compassion for your sick parents. They are the same as us and the truth is they did give us some good things.

Heal. You deserve it.

There's also Alanon (look for the Adult Child meetings) and CODA. I bet if you go to any of these fellowships you will find major identification. And give it more than a few tries!

thank you everyone. woman healing i will look into that. i hope everyone is doing okay.

thinking of you haier x

i hope you find the peace and closure you seek.