[zooropa]

copy and paste of an email I sent to my best friend today. We were having a conversation about therapy and various issues and this finally came out:

my main problem with [T] right now is that I don't think she believes me about the rape. Which I know actually doesn't make sense, but I can't explain, I just have this certainty that she doesn't believe me. That finally, finally, after 20 years I managed to TELL someone and she doesn't believe me.

Because she's not acting the same towards me, and she hasn't mentioned it and it's because she doesn't believe it happened.

That is crushing me. I can't keep asking her if she believes me because I've asked her in the past and she said yes and I can't keep asking her. She doesn't. Nobody does, nobody ever will, my chance to finally share that burden with someone and maybe, maybe be free of it is gone because nobody will ever listen, ever hear me, ever believe me ever ever ever.

[googley]

((((((Zoopora))))))

I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time with this. It is really hard to tell people about these things and then to feel that they don't believe you must feel awful. First, I'm sure that your T believes you. If you asked her, and she said yes then I'm sure it is still true. Has she lied to you about anything else before? She will not be angry with you for asking her again. She will answer that question as many times as you need her to. I keep asking my T if she is angry with me. And every time she says 'no'. But then I need to ask it again. And she answers it again. She would rather I ask again than I sit there thinking she hates me. I'm sure your T is the same way.

As for your T not bringing it up since you told her about it, it is probably because she wants to let you talk about it when you are ready. Does she let you decide what to talk about? My T would never tell me what to talk about. She is probably waiting for you to feel comfortable bringing it up again. She doesn't want you to go somewhere in discussion you are not ready for. She is trying to be sensitive to your needs, but does not know that her waiting for you to bring it up feels like she doesn't believe you and she is avoiding the topic. You should definitely bring this up with her. I'm sure she would be happy to talk about anything you bring up.

And for the record, I believe you.

I believe you, zoo.

[jennaorgana]

i believe you too... i am sorry that you are feeling that way.

i'll listen . i don't know if this could be a possibility, but what if she hasn't brought it up in detail because you haven't brought it up in detail? i mean, you ask her if she believes you but sometimes we as patients have this body language... our tone changes or we cross our arms... maybe she doesn't want to bring it up because she doesn't know if you are ready to?

if that is just all a pile of rubbish then maybe it might be something like, this is HUGE to you (and would be to EVERYONE in your situation). you haven't trusted anyone with this and then you open up to someone who is supposed to accept and believe everything you say, you feel invalidated because the response expected from that kind of disclosure wasn't experienced... sometimes when a lot of emotion and trust is on the line, we don't give ourselves or our trustees credit because we are afraid of what they will think of us.

or, at the end of the day, your T can be acting like an as$hole. it happens.

please keep us updated! i want to know how everything is going

[emilyjeanne]

I believe you too!!!!!! I feel the same way with my T.

Originally Posted by zooropa

copy and paste of an email I sent to my best friend today. We were having a conversation about therapy and various issues and this finally came out:

my main problem with [T] right now is that I don't think she believes me about the rape. Which I know actually doesn't make sense, but I can't explain, I just have this certainty that she doesn't believe me. That finally, finally, after 20 years I managed to TELL someone and she doesn't believe me.

Because she's not acting the same towards me, and she hasn't mentioned it and it's because she doesn't believe it happened.

That is crushing me. I can't keep asking her if she believes me because I've asked her in the past and she said yes and I can't keep asking her. She doesn't. Nobody does, nobody ever will, my chance to finally share that burden with someone and maybe, maybe be free of it is gone because nobody will ever listen, ever hear me, ever believe me ever ever ever.

She has told you she believes you. Why do you refuse to believe that? Trust. Trust. Trust.

[BlueMoon6]

Zoo I believe you, too

You know, when I was seeing desk-t I wrote down an incident of csa for her to read. My memories are fuzzy, but this memory was less fuzzy, so I know it is correct. After she read it, she seemed sympathetic and gently put the paper down. I knew she believed it happened. But I felt like she didnt. It was as if, to my intellectual mind, something like this to happen to a child IS unbelievable. I could hardly even believe it myself but I knew it was true. I almost felt as if there was something going on that was out of my awareness that was making ME not believe it b/c it was so awful to be true. And it was easier for me to believe that she didnt believe me than for me to know that it was so awful as to be not believable.

In other words, feeling like I was not believed on some level somehow made it easier for me deal with the truth and the reality that it did happen. I know this went on for me, does it fit for you? Or am I way out there?

[SpottedOwl]

(((zoo)))

I believe you.

I don't even know how many times I asked my own T if he believed me. It is ok to ask again, and again, and again if you need to. Part of the process, I think, is allowing yourself to believe that it happened.

It can be really difficult to reconcile the idea that a horrible event happened to a person that is lovable. Almost every single time I found myself doubting that T was there for me, or that he believed me, after time I found it was my own distrust of myself.

You will slowly find that trust in yourself again. For now, lean on T and let her know how you're feeling.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

Zoo I believe you, too

In other words, feeling like I was not believed on some level somehow made it easier for me deal with the truth and the reality that it did happen. I know this went on for me, does it fit for you? Or am I way out there?

I understand what you're saying, I need to think about this. Thank you, blue, and everyone. I can't respond, really, right now but thank you.

[skeksi]

It's so scary to let go and just trust that T believes us, isnt it? It feels dangerous. We want to protect ourselves from being hurt, so we cant let ourselves trust it.

The more you hear that she believes you, and see it in the way she talks to you and interacts with you, the more it will start to sink in. Keep at it.

[zooropa]

thank you so much, googley and tree and jenn and blue and owl, for saying that you believe me.

yes, speaking this stuff out loud for the 1st time makes it REAL and part of me doesn't want it to be real, still, after all this time. And no matter what T says there is a part of me that can't understand how she can't view me differently, knowing what happened, even just the parts she knows.

And I have a history of not being believed when I told my mom about csa so I have that fear that I carry with me.

This is so confusing to me, I'm trying to hard to sort out how much of this "rupture" is just going on in my head or if T really is acting differently towards me, it FEELS like she is but I'm trying to sort it out. I want it to be my imagination and so I can go back to having the T that I trust and depend on.

I'm just so sad and confused and every time I try to reach out to her to get her help sorting this out, that connection isn't there, she doesn't say the right thing, and it just makes it worse. Is it me? Is it her? Is it both? I wish I could just shut this off until next week when I see her but that's soooo hard.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by zooropa

thank you so much, googley and tree and jenn and blue and owl, for saying that you believe me.

yes, speaking this stuff out loud for the 1st time makes it REAL and part of me doesn't want it to be real, still, after all this time. And no matter what T says there is a part of me that can't understand how she can't view me differently, knowing what happened, even just the parts she knows.

And I have a history of not being believed when I told my mom about csa so I have that fear that I carry with me.

This is so confusing to me, I'm trying to hard to sort out how much of this "rupture" is just going on in my head or if T really is acting differently towards me, it FEELS like she is but I'm trying to sort it out. I want it to be my imagination and so I can go back to having the T that I trust and depend on.

I'm just so sad and confused and every time I try to reach out to her to get her help sorting this out, that connection isn't there, she doesn't say the right thing, and it just makes it worse. Is it me? Is it her? Is it both? I wish I could just shut this off until next week when I see her but that's soooo hard.

Oh, zoo, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I struggle with this too. A big fear of mine is being so vulnerable and not trusting that I will be treated gently. It also releases so many other emotions that I'd rather just not go there - the self-blame, the guilt, the sadness, the shame.

We are dealing with a lot of this in group T - about fear of being hurt, trusting, and the big one for me is - not being believed. So, I just don't share. The fear of all of that keeps me from moving forward and healing.

I believe you. I believe you wholeheartedly, with every single piece of me.

Keep talking about it. Here and with T. The more you share it, the closer you get to figuring it all out and that is the path to healing. Now, I just need to take my own advice. *sigh*

[BlueMoon6]

(((((Zoo)))))What in your imagination would you want her to say and do with you? What would soothe you and make you feel safe and know that she believes and is with you on this?

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

(((((Zoo)))))What in your imagination would you want her to say and do with you? What would soothe you and make you feel safe and know that she believes and is with you on this?

I don't know. I'm confused about my feelings. Because I have asked her before if she believed me, and trusted her answer. But lately there has been a change in how I feel she is relating to me, or is it in how I'm relating to her? I don't know.

I want it to be me, just all in my head. I want that feeling that I KNOW T is with me through this back, I know I felt that before but I don't feel it now and it scares me.

I think if I call her now I could get her voicemail, which would be good because I'd like to leave her a message and not so much talk to her right now. I'd like to leave her a message and say I feel alone in this and I don't know why. I feel like I did something wrong and I don't know what. I feel like she's being distant and cold and it's not helping, it's making things worse.

[kitten16]

I've gone through this before -- I felt something was wrong with my T, he seemed wildly different during one session and it totally brought me down. I thought about stopping, was sure he didn't want to see me again, etc. etc. I somehow got up enough courage to ask him about it, and that session was a kind of breakthrough for us.

So do mention this to your T. But don't assume anything is wrong until you know more. My feeling from what you've said is that she's not pushing you away. If it would help to leave a message, maybe you should...

[zooropa]

just updating to say that I called T, got her voicemail like I hoped I would, and left her a message but I forgot everything I was going to say and ended up leaving some kind of message that I'm sure makes no sense but is just me crying about how I don't know what's going on and yeah...pretty sure that just made things worse. :eyeroll:

hiding on the internet and not answering my phone for the rest of the day....

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I'd like to leave her a message and say I feel alone in this and I don't know why. I feel like I did something wrong and I don't know what. I feel like she's being distant and cold and it's not helping, it's making things worse.

I hope you get the chance to say these things to her. Talking this out with her would be really helpful and I think that you would gain a lot from it. I hope you are doing okay sitting with this...........

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by zooropa

My T is very directive and has an agenda for most if not all of my sessions. She has sort of forced me to talk about things more than once. She tells me all the time that there is a better way to do things and what it is.

Z, I found this response of yours on Tree's thread. Could this info about your therapist be related to your issue on this thread???

((((((zoo))))))

I just wanted to tell you that last summer, my T and I had a summer-long rupture. It was AWFUL. And it was very much like you are describing with your T...it felt like something in him had changed and somehow we just couldn't connect. We talked and talked about it, and it just kept getting worse instead of better. I even have a message still saved from that time in which T acknowledged how horrible it felt for me and how frustrated he was feeling by it as well.

I honestly don't know how we found our way out of it. I think a lot of it was showing up over and over and over and over again and talking and talking and talking about it. Somehow, things shifted, and we connected, and, as usual after a rupture, we ended up even more connected than we were before the rupture. I think because we had to work so hard together to find our way out.

Don't lose hope, zoo. I think this is all part of the process. Hang in there.

i believe you. been there, bought the t shirt...it says victim crossed out..now survivor. wear it with pride.

anyway. i ask my t if she believes me all the time. and she says she does...all the time..and she says she will tell me that as many times as she has too.

i had a pdoc who i shared some memories of childhood abuse with and she told me that couldn't have happened.yep it did..i was there...

had a t who didn't validate the abuse either..made me doubt things as well altho with some of the memories she said she believed me too.

some people even tho they are trained to be t's just can't handle some of the stuff we tell them...i think as a person it may be to much..as a doc they can but the conflict comes into play for them at a point.

maybe they develop feelings for the client/patient whatever..and can't handle hearing what happened to them..they get to close and their reaction is skewed (and because we expect or hope for a different reaction the relationship if affected.

my t never looks at the logistics of my memories and says " physicialy that couldn't have happened or whatever" because when i was 5 that is how i recalled it or at 17 that is how it felt for me, etc. period...she isn't there to investigate the facts for a legal case but to help me deal with my sense of the facts...

ask your t...it feels like you don't believe me..i need for you feel like you believe me. i am a victim and a survivor...and for me to thrive and heal i need for you to help me process everything but it is essential for you to assist me with this...and for that i need to know that you believe what i tell you has happened. DO YOU BELIEVE ME?

call her on it...this is important for you...

and then wear that shirt with pride if you so wish..or burn it...that is okay too.

stumpy

[deliquesce]

ooh. my old-t didn't believe me. i had the suspicion that he didn't and i called him on it and he truthfully told me he didn't believe me. but he was a twat. i also told a uni psychologist last year and he said he had "no reason" to believe me. austin-t called him some harsher terms too .

i think the "reason" comment is a useful one though - you can look at what your Ts reasons are for believing you, and for not believing you. with old-T, he provided a lot of forensic services, so i think his level of belief was set at a high standard e.g., i told him that a scar i have is in a different place to where it should have been based on my recollections; and all these little inaccuracies built up to him not believing me. but like stumpy said, you're not asking your T to certify the 100% accuracy of your memories, just the general fact that something happened.

with the uni-psych, his reason for not believing me was that if he did believe me he had to write a report to help me get some study concessions and temp accomodation. i dont know what his problem was, maybe if i had gone in there crying and screaming it might have been different. austin-t knows who he is and put in a complaint to uni services though.

sorry this is long. i guess my point is that if you find it hard to believe that T trusts you, then you should ask yourself what her reasons are for not believing you. austin-t and pdoc both believe me. i don't know why they believe me, but i know they don't have an agenda to disbelieve me either.

because i was told to keep quiet with the threat that no one would believe me if i told, i find it very difficult to believe it when people do actually listen and trust me. and then if something feels funny in the relationship, i bring up a host of reasons to do with disclosing the trauma - they don't believe me, or they do believe me and now they think i'm disgusting etc. it's something i have to work to get free of.

i hope your T calls you back soon, sweetie .

[moonrise]

I believe you.

I am just at the point in therapy of talking about the $hitty painful stuff. I haven't even gotten up the nerve to ask T if she believes me. I just tell her she doesn't (cause I'm a mind reader, you know)

I hope you can get to the point where you believe that she believes you.

[chaotic13]

First...I didn't believe me, then I thought my T wouldn't think it was a big deal, and on and on my internal critic would go. Or as I read once the "parasite" with long tenticles that the abuse spawned. I think for me its easier to assume that no one will understand or that it is just too difficult or to minimal to even try and explain.

Zoo...I think your T will believe what you tell her. And has hard as it is to accept it...she probably is really wanting you to open the door on that topic again so she can help you.

My T rarely brings up my SA topic on her own. I used to think that was because she didn't really care to hear anymore about it...but I found out again last week that when I go there, she really seems to want to listen and help me. It just hard to be brave enough to go there. (((Zoo)))

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Z, I found this response of yours on Tree's thread. Could this info about your therapist be related to your issue on this thread???

I don't know, Sannah, maybe? I think it's more that that's the kind of therapy she does, it's DBT and it's very structured. I've also been very passive in the 16 mos or so that I've been seeing T, and when she has given me the chance to lead the way I have always deferred to her.

Originally Posted by treehouse

((((((zoo))))))

Don't lose hope, zoo. I think this is all part of the process. Hang in there.

thank you for sharing that with me, tree. I'm so glad you stuck with it and worked through it one way or another with T. I really needed to hear that today as I'm ready to give up on therapy but I will make myself show up, just keep showing up. Thank you.

Originally Posted by stumpy

ask your t...it feels like you don't believe me..i need for you feel like you believe me. i am a victim and a survivor...and for me to thrive and heal i need for you to help me process everything but it is essential for you to assist me with this...and for that i need to know that you believe what i tell you has happened. DO YOU BELIEVE ME?

call her on it...this is important for you...

and then wear that shirt with pride if you so wish..or burn it...that is okay too.

stumpy

stumpy, wow. I am SO SORRY you had a pdoc that said it couldn't have happened and a T that was invalidating to you.
thank you so much for your words, I am going to copy that out into my journal and may say those exact things or something very similar to my T! I know I have asked her before if she believed me or told her that I need to hear that she believes me, but I guess I need to just tell her that "hey, guess what, I need to keep hearing that so I'm going to keep asking, ok??"

Originally Posted by deliquesce

i think the "reason" comment is a useful one though - you can look at what your Ts reasons are for believing you, and for not believing you. with old-T, he provided a lot of forensic services, so i think his level of belief was set at a high standard e.g., i told him that a scar i have is in a different place to where it should have been based on my recollections; and all these little inaccuracies built up to him not believing me. but like stumpy said, you're not asking your T to certify the 100% accuracy of your memories, just the general fact that something happened.

i hope your T calls you back soon, sweetie .

deli, I'm sorry you went through that too. Your comment about the "reason" reminds me of what my T said the very first time I told her that I was afraid she didn't believe me. She said "I believe you because I have no reason not to" which seemed like an odd comment to me at the time and I still have a hard time getting my head around it.

I think it was so pounded into me from such a young age that "if you tell nobody will believe you" that even now when I know better and I'm not even talking about the same trauma it still feels the same.

(((((((zoo)))))))

I just wanted to tell you that sometimes *I* don't believe me It just feels so unbelievable that this stuff happened to...ME. I really think of it as happening to some other little girl...it's hard for me to *get* that that little girl is me. It makes my brain spin.

I think growing up and having my experiences totally invalidated by my abusers, combined with my dissociative stuff and the feeling that that little girl was someone else makes the whole thing feel like a big crazy dream sometimes. And when I get that feeling, I feel like....how can T believe me? And I convince myself that he doesn't. And it feels HORRIBLE, but "right" too, you know? Like, oh this makes sense, some grown up doesn't believe me. Of course.

It scares me to ask T if he believes me. But I do ask him. And he tells me he believes me, over and over and over and over and over again, as many times as I need to hear it. Sometimes he tells me in words that don't makes sense to me (kind of like your t's "I believe you because I have no reason not to") so I ask him to tell me another way. I ask him to tell me in words the little me inside can understand, in words that don't have double meanings, in words that are easy for me to remember. I ask him to write it down. I ask him to leave it on voice mail messages. I need to hear it as much as I need to hear it, and for me, it's a huge, giant part of my healing. I need to KNOW that FINALLY someone sees me and hears me and BELIEVES ME.

I guess I just want you to know that how you feel makes so much sense to me. I really do think that your T believes you, really and truly. I do.