hard to connect with

Deli, you are loveable and are loved here.

B.S. Anyone who told you things such as that has got major issues, and IT IS NOT YOU! I think we can all tell from thousands of miles away that you are loveable!

PS: This took me an hour to type out

WHEW. Ok Deli...I am practically shaking I am SO MAD on your behalf. SO SO SO SO SO SO SO mad. Ugh. Furious.

Deli: Please don't read if you are feeling fragile. I go off in rants on how awful I think your parents treated you. I am only doing tis because I want you to see from a complete outsiders point of view what I think of it. What anyone who is looking into it sees. That I want to help validate your feelings and thoughts and experiences. NOT TO HURT YOU. But, if you feel like it might be too much, please read later. I do not want to cause any extra pain. I hope you know I sincerely care about you. A stranger on the internet.




I am going to take a different stance on what austinT said than what others have said. It is just my opinion, so take it or leave it What I took away from what AustinT replied back to you was that he was making an observation. I don't know WHY he said it when he said it. The ONLY way you will know is to go back and ask him.

Maybe he misread your text as saying you were cancelling next week's appointment, NOT as "If you don't care about me, we shouldn't meet next week." I find that SO hard to believe. #1 because he is a T, and never has said anything (that I am aware of) that was so completely inappropriate and out of iine, and #2, a decent human being wouldn't respond that way. I truly think he thought you were cancelling and he was letting you know he was keeping a spot OPEN for you. Because he wants to see you. Because it has to be your decision not his.
Awful, awful, awful things your mum said. She was manipulating you, taking control over your emotionally. My T says to me all the time that no human being is born not needing love. Perhaps you were different from your sister in the fact that you weren't as clingy/needy towards your mom as she was. People are different. There is this family I know with an 8 year old boy and 7 month old girl. When her 8 year old was a baby, he never was clingy, and always was very independent. The mom did NOT take this personally. Some kids need more affection than others. Her 7 month old, gets super upset whenever she is away from her mom and dad. They couldn't do day care with her. They raised their children pretty much the same, and yet couldn't be more opposite. That is just their personality. I have no way of knowing that you maybe were less "needy" than your sister, or the fact that your mom trained you to believe that. Either way, there is absolutely no F*CKING reason for her to say that to you--regardless! UGH. I AM SO ANGRY

In terms of austinT, did the words "I am only trying because it is my job"? Because unless he said that specifically to you, you are infering. And we knows what happens to people who assume...right?
Further proof that all this means is you and you sister are DIFFERENT. Do you remember any of these incidents, or just what your mum told you? Because she does not sound like a reliable source of information. ALso, no two people react exactly the same to the same situation. Again, common sense (for your mum...not you).

Ugh. I can barely make it through this paragraph, thinking what you went through. It is despicable. Horrendous. Awful. Terrifying. Frightening. Do you see how low your dad got you? To the fact that being dead was a better option than him hurting you? That breaks my heart into a million pieces, Deli. And your mum hurting you vs your dad hurting you? Hurt is hurt. Abuse is abuse. You had to deal with physical, tortous abuse from your father, and emotional/verbal abuse from your mother. The fact that you have made it so far, and so accomplished in life is incredible. Your life is meant to be something great. It is meant for you to work through all of this ***** you have gone through. You ARE meant to get through this. You ARE meant to see through the other side of it, and live life happily and content. I know it. I also plan on being by your side for as long as that takes!!! I AM a persistent folk

UGH. MORE FURY. I can NOT believe her. TWELVE years old and you are Old enough to deal with abuse from your dad? Good lord, your mum! No wonder you don't want to reach out....you summed up all your little Deli courage to reach out to your mother, who has proved to be neglectful already, and she tells you do deal with it on your own?! Oh Deli

Sigh. Your dad is keeping you in such a pattern, a predictable pattern, Deli. He doesn't abuse you ALL the time, so during the good times he beats down your self-esteem and morale by telling you only he is good enough to love you. Well you know what, that is CRAP! He is exercising control over you. Plain and simple. He wants to feel worthless and unlovable because that way he will always have control over you. I am not saying he is doing this consciously, but he IS doing it. UGH. You ARE WORTH IT. YOU ARE LOVABLE. Deli you are only more difficult to connect with is because of so much pain you have been put through. You NEED to hold yourself close and tight to protect yourself. It is 100% understandable.

Ok. Deep breath here, Deli. Deli, your dad may love you, but it is in such a warped abusive way. It is NOT normal. Like I said before, he has beaten you down so you think he is the only person who will ever love you. NOT TRUE. I am so proud of you for moving. It is such a positive step in the right direction.

Now...can you summon up all your adult Deli courage and print out this post....and send it/email it/bring it in a sealed envelope to AustinT or pdoc or both? Because I have a hunch that you have never said this much to them this clearly and this plainly and not holding back any feelings to make it seem more "normal." If you do this, I will send you a care package in Australia. NO JOKE. Tell me something you want/need, and I will send it, because I will be oh so proud of you.
Ok. I can understand your thoughts on this, and if you TRULY, REALLY think AustinT is unhealthy for you, you need to move on. I get that. Now, can you still maybe go in one more time?

Also, has Austin T told you that wha tyou have is dead? Did those ACTUAL words come out of his mouth? Remember about infering and assuming??

Deli, your post about what went on in your family is a very brave, important step for you to have taken. While I can relate to some of the comments about being told that one is unlovable--almost verbatim--the rest of it is very difficult to comment on because of how horrifically you were treated that it is beyond the pale.

I posted hugs initially because I find it impossible to say anything right now: I don't want to make you angry or unhappy or distressed. I also have no idea of how to offer nurturing words right now for such a horrible set of experiences you've gone through. I'm speechless. I feel velcro's anger, too, but I'm holding it in. No one should be treated--in multiple different ways--like that.

I feel for you as if you are the gifted, promising, innocent, brilliant, and 'delicate' much younger sister I never had, whom I want to mentor and protect from the bad in the world, but I can't, and I certainly can't do anything about the past. And that hurts right now as I understand your pain more.

I think others might be uncertain of what to say, and, not wanting to say the wrong thing, aren't commenting much yet.

Thanks for sharing like this. Knowing this makes me even more impressed and proud of you and your accomplishments. You've progressed so much since you first came to PC, and I think your willingness to share more details with us is evidence of progress. And counter to the theme that started this, this is a way of you connecting in a very positive way. Don't let few comments so far bother you (I know you pay attention to views and comments). This is such sensitive material that I don't think anyone wants to handle it too lightly or carelessly with immediate, not very-well-formed responses. (It's 3:30 in the morning in New York City for reference, so probably most here are and have been sleeping (and will be for quite a while.)

You are a great human being.

(((((((((((((Deli)))))))))))))

You should never ever ever ever have been treated that way.
Your poor mum and dad must be very sick - and I say 'poor' not because I am excusing them or sympathizing with them, but they must be so sick and twisted inside their own heads to be able to mistreat and abuse someone as dear and sweet and precious and lovely as YOU are, Deli.

Like others have said, I am outraged for you.

I do understand your attachment to your Dad.
He is very crafty, and has brainwashed you in a way, so you believe that you have to depend on him.
It is controlling and manipulative, and is just as bad as the physical abuse. And it is SO confusing for you.
On sunday I was wishing my perp would email me! And then I felt sick for wishing it, and thought about why I wanted it, and realized I liked how he made me feel when I was with him, and thought about how I could get that feeling elsewhere in my life, and realized I couldn't. It made me feel sad empty and awful. So maybe I understand a tiny bit of what YOU are going through.

You are so brave and you are working so hard.
What you are doing is not easy, but you are DOING it.
Please don't give up on finding a right therapist - whether it is Austin-T or someone else. I so wish I could reach through the computer and drag you to my house, where I would wrap you in a blanket, give you a cup of tea, cookies, and my stuffed spotted leopard to hold, look you in the eyes and tell you how worthy and cared for you are.
I am holding you in my heart today.

(((((((((((((((deli)))))))))))))))))

I'm sorry, deli

all of you mean a million to me. you have no idea.

i'm exhausted right now. exhausted. it's been a long day. my supervisor asked me if i wanted to withdraw from uni. i'm so tired i'm not holding it together very well.

but i see pdoc tomorrow morning. i am thinking of writing out what i posted earlier (editing it - i don't want him to know i post here!) and maybe giving it to him. i will take it with me at any rate, but not sure if i will give it. and if i do i'll do it at the end before i leave. i probably won't, but maybe just that i take it with me will be enough.

of course i'm being all OCD now about it. do i type it? if so, what font? i dont like times new roman but arial is impersonal but verdana feels odd too. what size should i choose? should i handwrite it instead? i'll be embarrassed about my handwriting, it's too perfect. do i write in pen or pencil. on lecture paper or blank. etc. do i write it for pdoc or do i write it for me? ack OCD.

i will try tonight but i will probably sleep instead. my brain is playing funny with me.

Deli, just wanted to let you know I've been following this thread and you are on my mind.

deli, it's great you're considering writing out what you typed to pdoc. Whatever you decide to do is fine - I think considering it and bringing it with you to your appt is a good first step. Do you think sharing what happened through your life is something that would bring you relief?

As imapatient said, I think we are all trying to be careful with our words. I'm sorry you have been feeling so tired. I'm sorry it's hard to adjust to a new life. I know you can push through, deli. I wish I could step through the computer screen and sit next to you right now. You will be in my thoughts.

OH DELI,

I also am just FURIOUS and SICK TO MY STOMACH hearing about how you parents treated you. It was very bad! Maybe you don't see the extent of how bad it was because at the time, you didn't know any different way of being treated. But to us, to outsiders reading about what happened to you, believe me. . .it was absolutely, unequivacably child abuse.

I have issues with my parents, and they didn't even come close to doing as much harm as yours did. I am so sorry for you, Deli.

I'm not saying your dad didn't love you, only that he was a very dysfunctional person with obviously major issues of his own. Unfortunately, you got the brunt of it.

What both of your parents said and did toward you was WRONG! No way would any child deserve to be treated that way.

I'm late coming to this-- sorry.

It seems to me that your T. has no idea how you are able to connect! Just look at all these wonderful supportive replies you've gotten. I would say that you've made some kind of connections...... at least, it seems that way to me. I'm sorry T. said that to you-- as it wasn't helpful for you at this time.

I'm also so so very sorry for the wonderful treasure of a child that wasn't given the chance to feel that way. My heart is with you. You were wronged in so many ways dear one.

I am unable to know what else to say as I only want to say the right things and I'm not always sure what that might be..... not just with you-- but with everyone.

I think it's good you "talked" about some things here-- I hope it's been helpful for you.

something I noticed about you--- YOU let people know that you're aware they posted to you, either by a reply or a "thanks"..... I think that speaks volumes about caring and compassion. (I notice such things-- as not being heard is a huge trigger in my world....)

thinking of you

fins

How about copy and paste into a document, edit it, leave it in the font it pastes as, print it out, and bring it with you?

(((((((((deli)))))))))

thank you notz and chris for replying here. i feel silly but it really does mean so much to me when ppl just say they're here. thank you .

i dont know if i have it in me to reply to everyone's posts individually right now, especially those of you who said stuff in detail about my previous post. on the one hand it is kind of overwhelming to read that people are angry (angry is scary) but on the other hand it is kind of... validating and gives me strength. i never told anyone when i was younger for soooo many different reasons, but they mainly centred around being ridiculed for making a big deal out of what was essentially nothing. or alternatively being "found out" for the bad person that i am, and inviting more of that hurt from someone i disclosed to. i know i've snapped at ppl here when they've tried to be supportive in the past - i'm still loyal to my folks and i don't like hearing people say bad things about them, and words like "abuse" and "crime" make me feel sick - so it means a lot that people here can recognise that dad does love me, even if it was in his own way and against my best interests. i compartmentalise lots, and i suspect that when dad is in "good dad" mode it is very difficult for him to even have access to the parts where he doesn't do good stuff.

i'm not quite so forgiving of mum, but i never really attached to her. i love her because she is my mum and i know she does what she can, but i dont feel great about her in the way that dad loves me so i can feel great about him.

but i am really sorry i've made people cautious about saying things to me, i am remorseful if i've snapped in the past and pushed you away, but i also am very very grateful that you're a persistent bunch who are willing to measure your words in order to reach me. and seriously. you have no idea how much it means that you guys have said you care. you're all so nice to me and i feel blushy and shy .

i will post about today in a separate post. my internet connection here is shaky and tends to give out whenever the wind changes.

(((((((((((Deli))))))))))
Here for you.

Deli,

I haven't been on this forum long, but I just wanted to write and offer some support.

Messy and complicated emotions about family...*sigh*...I can totally relate to how you are feeling. Those kinds of feelings can be so confusing....especially the father stuff, and ...I don't know i just feel kinda the same way you do and I know you are working on it and I am too and sometimes when i'm feeling down or hurt, it can feel like...

It can feel like there are few people who can be trusted and loved in the world, and it makes me want to cling to people who seem to cause both love and pain. Because i feel like i need to get love, wherever I can get it, and take it when it comes.

But that hard kind of love, it comes with such a high price. Emotionally and mentally, that kind of love just wears me out eventually. But its hard not to want it, or go back to it because it seems so true to me.

But i try to keep reminding myself, it's no good for me. There are people out there who will love me without making me feel crappy.

And I think your Austin-T was out of line and for me, I have 15 feet concrete walls up 99% of the time, and it's like that is the whole POINT of the walls ---to keep out those who aren't really wanting to come in and be here with me. So when I feel threatened and someone acts like i'm all hard to know or whatever it just confirms that I didn't want them getting in there in the first place.

I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I'm sorry that your Austin T is acting like that, and it's just sooo totally about him and his issues as a T. And i am so happy for you because you are doing so well and overcoming so much to be where you are in life right now. I don't know your whole story but what i do know of it, makes you kinda amazing.

Love for Deli

dfh, i'm sorry you're in a position where you 'get it' because of similar experiences. what you said about it being the whole point of walls - yes!! i dont get how pointing out that you're difficult to connect with would somehow make you more willing to try. cack.

what you said: "There are people out there who will love me without making me feel crappy". is that something you really believe? something that you've found to be true for you? i know i am very cynical (that's another wall i put up) but i find it hard to believe there is someone out there who will love me without making me feel crappy. sure, there are people out there who love other people without making them feel bad, but i doubt one of those good people will ever find me worthy to love-without-hurt. i've done enough hoping and i don't want to hope anymore because i've been let down too many times.

sorry this is wet blanket, dfh. i do appreciate so much that you wrote, even though we don't know each other very well. i don't want to come across as mean when you've been so kind to me. but you also get the wall thingy, so maybe you're someone who can get what i'm saying here and not give me a flippant "i just know it! someone will come along!" answer. there are too many beautiful people in this world who are lonely, and i dont even think i'm a beautiful person, so i find those "don't worry" answers very hard to believe.

Oh geez....
Well since you asked, I guess i will say it. I just don't really know.

And i'm flippin' married.

But, having said that, my H is kind of broken too. But he is a kind man and he loves me. We've been together for a long time, and there is a world inside of me that he doesnt know.

But I THINK he would love me (all of me) if i let him in and i'm working on trusting him, and trusting T.

But the thing is, I haven't EVER been honest with anyone, ever ! Like, it's almost ridiculous. So sometimes I think i wouldn't know love if it walked up to me and begged me to let it love me. I'd be all like "what's the angle? what does it want from me?" and would run in the other direction. Or manipulate it or be rude or it or someting, b/c i was afraid of it.

The prospect of trust and love and being honest and committed is terrifying...but also I feel like i have to try...SOMEHOW. He doesn't even know a fraction of my history or issues or the walls, and I wonder why he is with me, all the time.

And why he wants to be with someone whom he doesn't even really know inside...But that is part of why we are together, sometimes i think...2 broken people just trying to get by and slowly working to be honest with each other.

So i guess maybe I think there isn't anyone who will just accept me as-is, love with all the love ...which is a source of great pain.

But I do have my H, and he loves what he knows of me...and i love what i Know of him, and he's all broken inside and hurt and we just try to meet in the middle without destroying each other or totally pushing each other away every second.

But it's very hard.

Your message isn't a wet blanket I liked what you asked me. I like to think about it.

You assume that the person who does this is all together and therefore what he does must make some sense! Well, it does make some sense, but probably not the way you want it to. I see it as just a person saying something that is true for him, that he finds you difficult sometimes. He is not handling that well, and you see that as a threat, rather than as a simple statement of his shortcomings. I guess you do not want to see that he has shortcomings. Because if he does, how can he help you???

At least, looking at how I react, that is how I interpret it. Because I tend to react the same way and have to work hard to see what it all means...

i'm a derrr brain, i forgot to write about what happened today.

went to pdocs. it kind of sucked. i hunch over so much when i get depressed - curl up into myself - and pdoc didn't see me when he first got into the waiting room. he came back two minutes later and was like "woah, there you are" and told me today we're going to practice sitting up straight.

the session sucked, i wasn't responsive. pdoc tries really hard with me, and he knows that i listen when he tells me stuff about him, so he told me about the jobs he did when he was a uni student. he was pretty grunge!! he smoked a lot and he drank heaps and he worked as a bartender making cocktails. it's weird that this is the guy sitting in front of me with a suit and tie on.

he told me stories about didier (the plastic gorilla) and he brought out max (the one i gave him) and made him do a dance. and my phone started vibrating and he told me there was a little cow stuck inside my bag. he tried so hard to cheer me up.

he said there's no way than austin-t doesnt want to help me anymore. he said they spoke two weeks ago and austin-t had been committed to helping, and that he's not a flake. but he said austin-t has run out of juice and maybe i need to give him something more to work on. pdoc said it had been difficult for him gaining my trust, because he was flying blind. he did a 6 month rotation on a ptsd inpatient ward and learned a lot, but even that wasn't enough to help him know how to tread with me. and he said he'd told austin-t about all of this last time they'd spoken and given him the heads up that it would be slow. but he said maybe austin-t is used to working with people who are begging for his help, not people like me who are still deciding whether he's ok or not. he told me austin-t worked for an international sports team (a huge one, i was like ) as their personal trainer/psych coach for a long time before he left and travelled a bit and then joined here. so he said maybe austin-t is very "go! go! go!" and is trying to push even harder because his experience has been that pushing harder yields results.

he said we need austin-t because austin-t has a different skill set that's helped me so much in the past. he said that if i'm slaying dragons then austin-t is the sword and pdoc is my shield and armour. he said that sometimes swords break when you've fought hard (and i've just finished uni) and you have to send them to the forge but that good armour stays always and because pdoc is my protector he's going to take care of me. he said i could take a break from austin-t but that i had to trust pdoc that we were keeping austin-t on the team and that austin-t wanted to stay. pdoc tried to get me to look at him at this point - it was so scary, eye contact is scary - because he said i needed to look at him to trust him. so i covered my face and peeped between my fingers and i nodded but he looked really sad and then i felt bad. he said i shouldnt hide my eyes because only some people have eyes that are special and i was blessed with beautiful eyes. that sounds so cliche but a lot of people tell me that - there's not a lot of pigment in them so i think it's just an odd colour for my type of skin. pdoc told me that by the time we're done he's going to have me not wearing a fringe anymore and no more glasses. and sitting up straight .

oh, triggers henceforth. be warned.

i'm rambling. i'm rambling because i'm trying to remember the nice stuff and ignore the crap stuff where it felt like i was in so much pain and pdoc was putting on his good humour act again. he told me to increase my med dose and i told him i'd rather swallow the whole box & be done with life, and he told me a recipe for a cocktail to take with it because then i would feel really drunk. i know that sounds waaay beyond negligent, but this is how pdoc gets. i think it's hard for him to switch gears from trying to cheer me up to being serious and just whump, yknow? he's a good doctor. but i could barely look at him when i left. it wasn't his fault - i was just feeling so down and feeling like everything i've tried so far has been difficult and i dont want to keep trying, and here he is trying to get me to keep on keeping on with a smile on my face.

i went home afterwards (real home). i have a box of meds which i've just been stashing over the years. i've been through 13 types so far, so whenever we've switched i've just kep the remainder. but then i found the print out i was going to give pdoc (i wrote it out first then got embarrassed so i printed it out instead) and i thought i might as well because i do still trust him, and right now i'm beyond caring whether it makes a dent to him or not. usually i try to protect myself from indifference but at the moment i thought indifference could at least help me gather the strength to call it quits. so i wrote up a stupidly honest letter on the reverse of the print out and dropped it off at the medical centre. i dont know when he works there, but he'll get it when he does. it makes me feel ill when i think about it now (yikes i dont even know if his reception opens his mail for him) but i didnt write my name on it so at least that's ok.

i feel like filth for writing that letter, giving him the printout. i really, really do. and it's a long weekend on fri through to mon, so if he doesnt get it tomorrow i'm going to feel sick. but the other thing is maybe he's already read it and just didnt think it was important enough to respond to. i didnt ask for a reply. god i hope he has the sense to acknowledge it, but who knows.

im sorry ive rambled so much. i know none of this is very important, but im trying so hard to think about the good stuff pdoc did today so that i dont think about what an *** i was in the session and also what a **** i was afterwards by sending him that letter. i cant help but think that he's going to think that im pushing boundaries or something. ive never been allowed to write or anything, and even our txts i try to keep strictly business (and i beat myself up when i dont) so i feel gross that ive done this now.

but i havent been stewing too much because more than anything right now i just feel a bit numb, and i hope this numbness lasts a long time. pdoc said he was going to talk to austin-t again and sort things out because he's not going to let me pull the plug on austin-t, and i just feel gross and like im in a lot of trouble. i dont want to be a hassle and i think ive made myself into one.

enough thinking though. i'll let myself be a mess if i dont hear back from pdoc tomorrow night, but otherwise im going to go to bed now and go to uni tomorrow and stop thinking.

pachy, dfh - been rambling whilst you've been replying. im going to bed now but will reply to your posts tomorrow. dont want you to think i saw it & ignored it. just saying, (even if it doesnt matter to you).

I just read your last post and like you, right now I don't have the words to respond, except to say that I (think I) understand completely. It is so hard when there are so few people, mental health people included, who have similar enough experiences to get why we do the things we do. Anyway, you are just a human being and not AT ALL terrible or anything like that.

Deli- Maybe there is more to the story and I havent been reading here much the last 2 weeks or so, but it sounds to me like PROGRESS with you and austin-t. It sounds like he going a bit deeper with you into your relationship with him. I dont think you are a failure AT ALL. It looks to me like progress that austin-t feels like you are ready to take steps into area of intimacy with him (or likely anyone else) and the issues that come up around that.