[rainbow8]

I'm getting frustrated. Every week T says how great I'm doing but I don't feel any better. She says therapy is not fun, that it is hard and painful, and that she thinks in time I will feel better. But th problem is that I don't know what the problem is! She thinks it's about my mother. I know I came up with that "I want Mommy" thought, but she wanted me to do the collage to get in touch with feelings about losing my Mom. Doing the collage was okay, but it just made me feel bad and I couldn't talk about it. She gave me the magazine pictures and words to use. I got "into" it because I like art. What had an effect on me was that I chose the phrase "it hurts" and "break the silence." I don't know what hurts, though.

Before we did the collage, when I first came in, I had trouble getting calmed down. We did a lot of deep breathing and that helped. I'm not used to doing that in therapy. I closed my eyes though it wasn't official IFS work. I told her about transference, wanting to be "inside" her and some other stuff, but she didn't seem to want to discuss it. I don't know. I suppose if I would have said more, but it seemed like it was time to do the collage. I mentioned about wanting to cross boundaries in therapy, but I didn't feel like I had to mention about wanting to go past her house. I don't feel like I want to do that now.

I told her I felt disappointed when I left. I thought something "big" was going to happen, but it didn't. She said something about it could be little things. Also that I can't tie everything up into a neat package. Oh, that was when I said I thought my problem was about not separating from my mother as a child, not about not grieving for her as an adult. She said it could be both.

I just felt crummy after I left. I emailed her that "it hurts" but I don't know what, and that I think it's stupid to talk about my mother since she died so long ago. I said I didn't feel good. She emailed back that she doesn't think it's stupid since our parents are who we learn from, mostly. She didn't use those words. So, I emailed her again but said she didn't have to answer me this time. I said I wanted to read the "letters I wrote to my Mom and that she wrote back (what I imagined she'd write)" that I did with a past T, some years ago. But I still think it's about the baby stuff more than missing my Mom as an adult.

I wrote about the baby part still screaming and crying, but I didn't think she wanted to hear that part. About how she's right that it's about my mother, and that I'm so frustrated because I don't know what hurts and what's wrong with me. Also, that Bt would probably say that I'm manipulating her with these emails, and that I hope she doesn't take the "privilege" away from me.

She wants me to feel something in the session but I don't see how that's going to happen. So, I'm going to have to accept that therapy is slow, and I can't tie up my life into a neat package.

[elliemay]

Sadly, I think that hurt may have many many names. If only in were like on television, where the client has a breakthrough in therapy, and then that's it! They're cured!

In actuality, I think there are a series of mini-cures. Some may be slightly bigger than the others, some are imperceptable, but all along, things get better. On occasion I have been known to find more down.

But all in all, and with great effort, that great amorphous pain blob begins to shrink.

You've got to be in it for the long haul sometimes.

Peace to you

[granite1]

im really sorry that it cant rainbow.

[Melbadaze]

Rainbow, Yes its very hard, no matter how we go about. I haven't been asked to do anything to "bring" it on, as I think if the times not ready then it can be counter productive, its your therapy perhaps you can say what you feel about being asked to do something when you dont want to do it??

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm getting frustrated. Every week T says how great I'm doing but I don't feel any better.

((((((((((((((Rainbow))))))))))))))

I'm not sure that in therapy "doing great" = immediately feeling better.

I know that when I was struggling through the trauma stuff, and my feelings about the trauma stuff, T would tell me how brave I was being and what good work I was doing. And I felt HORRIBLE, almost all the time. But I was letting myself feel my feelings, and in the end, I really have started to feel better. Like Elliemay said, it hasn't been like on TV...I haven't had a huge breakthrough and felt better. It's happened bit by bit in imperceptible amounts - but those tiny bits of healing all start to add up eventually.

Maybe it's like growing out our hair. It's growing every day, and we can't see any difference. It always looks kind of the same. But after a couple of months go by, we can tell that it's longer than it was before. I think the healing can be like that. SO slow, much slower that we might want it to be...but still happening, and real.

I can imagine that it might feel like it would be easier to be able to look back at life and have some sort of trauma to pin everything on. But, even with a trauma history, it's not that simple. There is a lot of confusion and digging and discovering...and it's not so easy to make sense of everything. Like, I used to cut, and it seems like it would be easy to just say "well, I cut because I was abused"...but it's not that simple. There are multifaceted reasons for everything...and even if the abuse somehow led to the cutting - why? Not everyone who is abused self-injures. What is it about ME that led me down that path? Questions like that are hard to answer.

I guess I don't want you to feel alone. I doubt anyone's therapy can be tied up in a neat package with a bow (lol - I've literally used that exact phrase with T - that I wish everything could just be all neatly tied up in a bow ) People are just more complex than that.

I am trying HARD to let myself just know that this is a journey, and the journey, not the destination, is the point. I used to try so hard to move quickly through the things I needed to in therapy, with this idea that I could be "done" and move on. Now I know that "done" is arbitrary - there will never come a point where I will be able to say "that's it, I'm perfect now, thanks T ". I may reach a point where things feel "good enough" and I can take it from there on my own...but even then, I'll still be learning, growing, changing, and healing for the rest of my life.

to you, Rainbow. You ARE doing good work. I think this is what good work looks like.

[peaches100]

Hi Rainbow,

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad and confused about why you feel bad. My advice is Be Patient. Don't try to "force" things to happen in your session. Don't tie yourself up in knots trying to figure everything out now. You can't have all the answers at once. Try to relax. Go with the process.

[peaches100]

Also, don't overanalyze. And if you get stuck ruminating about all of this, distract yourself with activities that you enjoy that will keep you in the present moment.

Boy, I'm bossy, huh?

Just my best advice, based on how long I've known you. . .

So many good wishes and warm thoughts coming your way!

[seventyeight]

hi rainbow, it sounds like you're doing the best you can.. just a thought: do you really think it's that you're trying to hold on to (the memory of) your mom, or is it something more about being a child? i don't know what exactly the difference is, but it seems significant.

you've mentioned the "mommy" piece a few times, but it seems like it's not clicking for you. (or maybe it is, i can't tell.) i think if it's about wanting to be a kid again, then this would have something more to do with your therapist and wanting to be young again and in a place where you're taken care of by her. not sure if this makes sense.. just a thought i had and wanted to share.

[Fartraveler]

((Rainbow))

Wish I had more to help. It's a long slow process. It will get better.

Take care,
-Far

Slow down. Let the process take its path at it's own pace.

rainbow, you really are doing great work but yeah that usually feels worse before it feels better. so feeling yucky is progress--surprise! i think when we've buried our emotions so deep it takes time for them to come to the surface. kind of like little plant stems just peaking thru the dirt. the feelings will grow and grow slowly and poof one day you get a little bigger burst of emotion and then can relax a bit. i have found that my healing can be both process and crisis. i have both slow and steady times and fast, more intense times of recovery.

it sounds like kt wants to work on your losing your mom whereas you want to work on the early childhood stuff. maybe you can ask her why or ask if you can focus on the early childhood piece next for a little bit since that seems to really press at you.

[Perna]

Yes, my T was always saying how life was not like a book, wasn't all written out neat, couldn't be predicted, etc. :-)

[rainbow8]

I've been reading over old therapy journals and notes from years ago. Hardly anything ever changes regarding what I want from my Ts. Maybe I'm grasping at straws thinking this therapy will be different. I like IFS and maybe I need to give the EMDR another chance, but for some reason I think I may have to just give up therapy and suffer. T says she can help me get my needs met in RL and not need therapy. I don't believe her. Nothing is going to make me not want to be in therapy because I just want to be WITH HER.

I found some letters I wrote "to my Mom" from a previous therapy. I'll bring them to my session. So what? I'm repeating what I've already done in therapy. Over and over.

I don't know if anything happened to me when I was little. I was always wanting something I didn't have. My life turned out pretty well in spite of many disappointments, so I don't know what's wrong with me. Something is, but I don't know what. I want my session so I can tell all this to my T. I feel so discouraged when I think about therapy. I had such high hopes when I started and I don't know what changed.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I feel so discouraged when I think about therapy. I had such high hopes when I started and I don't know what changed.

Maybe you are realising that you are just doing the same thing you have done with all your Ts in the past. Nothing is changing. If you always do the same as you have always done, how can anything possibly change?
Change is uncomfortable. Change is hard work. Change means doing things differently, even though our *want* is to do things the same way. Change takes risk and vulnerability and, unfortunately, change can be so uncomfortable that it causes us emotional pain.

At the beginning of your work with this therapist you hoped things would be different this time. I have read along as you have told us all about how you have been gradually sliding into those same patterns that you have repeated with all your other Ts... but without using those words. As an observer, it was obvious that your old patterns were exactly where you were headed.

I don't mean any of this to be read with a judgemental tone, Rainbow. I am not judging you at all... I am merely reporting on what I have observed. As in - this is what has happened, and this is how I observed you got to this place.

One thing I have seen you say repeatedly is that T says it's her job to figure it all out. I strongly disagree with your T on this score. This is YOUR life - it's YOUR job to figure it out, and make the changes, and do things differently. Only in this case, maybe figuring out the reasons behind your behavior isn't what is important... maybe the most important thing to do is work with what is happening in the here and now, and challenge your own compulsion to be closer to the T.

Sometimes the quickest way to get to the heart of the issue is to take away the defences that protect against it. In your case, the protection against the issue would be getting closer to the T... you have such an intense feeling that you will be okay as long as you can be ever closer to her and part of her life.

So what comes up for you if you CAN'T be closer to her? What do you feel when you are NOT a part of her life? What feelings do you experience and how do you deal with them? I have a hunch that for you, those are the feelings that really matter, and are the way to find a path to healing.

[rainbow8]

Thanks, Luce. I also realize what is happening, and so does my T. She says our goal is to get my needs met in RL and not by her so I don't want therapy anymore. I did the IFS on why I want to stay in therapy forever. So, it's out in the open, but you're right, it IS up to me. I am fighting it, and I know it. The pattern goes back to my mother meeting my needs too well, but not meeting some of them. At least that's the way it seems.

My T doesn't want me to figure it out because she says I'm always doing that; I never feel anything during the session. I'm in "my head", she says. IFS and EMDR get me to feel and not think so much. Many feelings are blocked.

I told her I had nothing to live for without therapy, and that's pathetic and not even true. I don't know how to change the deep hurts inside of me, and the wanting to be with a T. Without it, I'll survive. I know that. But it's like I've had a taste of what I crave, and it hurts so much to give it up. I'm not sure if it's worth changing. I shouldn't have gone to another T, if you look at it your way. That makes me feel like I want to die, so it's not a simple matter of doing something about it. I've never really gotten to my raw feelings about how it is for me. With Kt, I can. Or maybe not.

Thank you for your honesty, Luce. It hurts (yeah, my phrase) but I am thinking about it.

What if you just allow yourself to be in therapy as long as you need to?

When I used to feel like I couldn't have as much of T as I wanted/needed - when I was afraid he would disappear, or therapy would end before I was ready, or whatever - it made me feel kind of desperate and afraid and needy. When I finally let myself really BELIEVE, deep down, that I could have therapy as long as I needed to, it calmed down. I still need T, but it doesn't feel scary, because I know I can HAVE T. I'm not fighting with myself.

Can you just allow yourself to have what you need for as long as you need it without fighting with yourself about it?

[rainbow8]

Tree, then I'll be in therapy the rest of my life. If I could accept that, then I wouldn't have to fight it. But, if the reason to be in therapy is just to be with the T, then it's unethical from the T's point of view, isn't it? Bt told me something like that. Seeing my pattern repeat and repeat depresses me. I wish therapy for me could be like it is for you. But I feel ashamed that I'm still in therapy. I imposed the word "addiction" on it. Kt doesn't like that word. I don't know if I need therapy or if I want it. Oh, this could be another thread about needs vs wants, but I don't have the energy now. Tree, thanks for being here right now.

[rainbow8]

So what comes up for you if you CAN'T be closer to her? What do you feel when you are NOT a part of her life? What feelings do you experience and how do you deal with them? I have a hunch that for you, those are the feelings that really matter, and are the way to find a path to healing.

Luce, I think this is worth thinking about more. Feelings that come up are frustration, anger, jealousy, depression, and sadness. Grief for what I can't have. Feelings of rejection. Rationalization about therapy. I discount the "real" work about grieving for my mother. I go off into a fantasy world sometimes. Or, this time I got obsessed with a different research topic that also frustrates me, but it's a major distraction--genealogy. I also read old therapy journals, trying to relive the past connections. I want the intimacy. T knows this; it came up with the IFS work. She wants me to get the feelings in RL. I don't know why I fight it. Probably because I get only a fraction of the good feelings I get from therapy.

My H and I want somewhere together and had a nice day. I tried, somewhat successfully, to do something to bring those feelings back into my marriage. It's very hard. So much easier to connect with a T, who can be like a best friend/mother/etc. and who listens 100% and wants to hear EVERYTHING. No one is like that in RL except here on PC, which is why I like it so much. Okay, end of spontaneous writing.

[WePow]

Rainbow, your posts are so deep and make me really have to think hard about what to say that might help you in some way. You have a very complex system inside :-) It is almost like a mosaic of sorts. In a way, I think that maybe you and T have been trying to look at the individual tiles and you are both just too close to the picture to see how the pieces can fit together. I hope this makes sense for you - I think it will because of your work with art.

My suggestion would be to actually pull back from yourself for a little bit. Kinda like how an artist has to put themselves outside their own mind and viewpoint in order to draw a self portrait. As you know, that is one of the hardest things for an artist to do!
There is a reason why this is so difficult - it deals with our nature of being IN our own universe.

I have been thinking about some things you may want to try that could help you pull back to get a clean point of view. Just ideas here - so if any help that is cool but if none fit, that is fine, just wanted to give you something anyway because I had to do this myself when I was in my 20's. These are things my first T had me do.

1) Meet yourself for the first time. Stand infront of a mirror and view the person in the mirror as though you have never met her before. What do you notice about her? What do you like? What do you not like? Stop yourself each time you say "MY" and change it to "Her". By doing this, you will start the mind thinking about viewing from that third person state.

Do this a few times before you engage the "stranger" in conversation. Then go about asking questions just as you would a stranger in real life that you start to encounter at a familiar place each day. "Hi there. I see you out here alot. It's a cool place to go for a walk, isn't it?" Allow your answers to just come out naturally and DO NOT think about the reply. Just answer the questions as though a stranger just asked them.

With time, you will be able to really get to know the stranger in the mirror and you may be amazed by the answers that stranger gives you. I know I was. In fact, sometimes the answers were so different than what I thought they would be that I would have to go into my bedroom and cry. I had no idea I saw myself in that way. This one activity helped me more than I could ever share.

2) Treat your spouse as a stranger. Play with "first meetings" and plan "dates" where you role play having just met. Allow yourself to re-discover who that person is. Allow that person to explore a new you that you have not yet shown the world. Take it slow and be natural about it - not rushed at all. Allow the grace to just be there.

3) For therapy, start with making a list of long term goals for yourself. Figure out in words what you want to accomplish with therapy. Do not worry about it ending or that you will run out of goals. Just focus on what you NEED and WANT your life to look like.

Well, that is what I came up with... I do hope it helps in some way. You are a very precious part of our universe. BIG HUGS!!

(((((((((((rainbow))))))))))))

it might be good to hold off making any decisions while you are so upset. i wonder if you ARE starting to do the hard work and now you want to run away. of course it's much easier to focus on the T addiction than painful memories and feelings. but that is the work of therapy.

i've also been thinking if calling what you have with your Ts an addiction is just a different term for transference. if they really are the same thing then calling it an addiction is just a different template to view it. if we look at it as an addiction then conventional wisdom says to avoid it if possible. if we call it transference then working through the transference sounds like the conventional wisdom. rainbow, have you done much reading on transference and how to work through it? i wonder if that might help you get a handle on the process a bit.

i wish i knew what the answer is for you, but since i don't here are some and

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I told her I had nothing to live for without therapy, and that's pathetic and not even true. I don't know how to change the deep hurts inside of me, and the wanting to be with a T. Without it, I'll survive. I know that. But it's like I've had a taste of what I crave, and it hurts so much to give it up. I'm not sure if it's worth changing. .

**honesty being presented from a different perspective****

i dont know alot, but i think the highlighted statement is where you need to start.

you have a family, you have children, you have grandchildren and probably lots of other stuff and poeple that care about you.

my god. i cant even imagine.
therapy is more important than your grandchildren?
a relationship with someone once a week is more important than a lifetime with your children?

this struck me beyond belief. not because i dont understand your desire for a "mom" -- but because i dont understand how your relationship with someone you barely know and just met, trumps your kids or grandkids (unless you are broken family --then i can see this and please ignore my statements then...i was under the impression that your family is "ok")

i dont know alot, but i think your looking for the wrong thing....
"you have nothing to live for without therapy" --- you have alot.

im sorry if i went out of bounds, but i read that and it REALLY stuck out.... and i have lots of questions i could ask you that i thought of, but i think you need to think about this without anyone leading you.

[rainbow8]

Solar, I don't understand that statement myself. You know how IFS is. T was asking me how the part that wants to stay in therapy forever feels. That sentence popped out. It's like I'm in two worlds. I love and am grateful for my husband, kids, and grandchildren and I would not choose my T over them. But, yes it often seems like the need to be with my T is greater than the need to be with my family. It makes me feel sad to feel that way. No, we're not a broken family. I don't know what's wrong with me that I would think that statement. My T commented on it, but I don't remember exactly what she said at the time. I KNOW I have a lot to live for, but therapy seems like a different place. You weren't out of bounds at all.

Bloom, I used to call it transference until I got to about my third T and it seemed more like an addiction. I've read a lot about transference and know what it is. I realize my feelings for my T are transference, and if I remember correctly, my former Ts except for Bt all tried to "work through" it. But they ended up saying "You can't make up what you missed; you just have to make the best of it" or something to that effect. One T said "you can't have the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but you can have the goodies along the way." Maybe I'm wrong, but that feels like putting a band-aid on a gaping hole.

WePow, I have a mosaic inside of me. I like that. Your ideas are different. I'll think about them. Thank you for spending time trying to help. I think I'm taking too much time on PC; I'm getting embarrassed about it. If I'm deep, I'm only deep here and in therapy.

[BlueMoon6]

((((Rainbow)))) You got such wonderful responses here with so much thought put into each one.

There were certain things that struck me. The posts of Blooms struck me as true for how I know you. That the pain IS the progress. It does seem like this kind of pain, coming from this particular place with this T is from a different angle and that the progress can be almost not perceiveable (spelling?) at times, but that it is like hair growing....slow but noticable over time.

I found for me that the reason I can go over and over the same issue with the same of different therapists is that I have not gone through the issue in the way I need to in order to resolve it for me. I dont believe it is not resolvable, I believe that it keeps coming back because I am not done with it. I have not dealt with it in the way my mind needs to....and unfortunately, I dont always know how I need to deal it or waht exactly "IT" is. Its sort of like trial and errro.

What helped me a lot with the mommy stuff was using my feelings about desk-T as a "medium" between how I felt with my mother. She was a trigger, as was bt for you. What did she trigger for you? Another thought...I( know your mom (and dad) loved you, adored you, and did everything they could for you. Does this mean they met your needs? I dont know. What do you think? Is it possible that doing SO MUCH for you was sort of dis-abling? Made you depend on them more than have confidence in your own abilities? There is a lot of pressure in having a mother live her life for you. And, in a way, it is a soothing thing and a feeling I would crave....to have someone smother me with their love so all I have to do is breathe on my own and she will do the rest out of love for ME. That feels so good....just like sitting on a mommy's lap and being curl up and be cuddled forever. I have wanted that from my therapist. And a therapist telling me to get it from my own life and the people around me feels like rejection. And abandonment.

What do you think? Am I way off?

[rainbow8]

Blue, you gave me a lot to think about here also. I think that my Mom showed me a lot of love, but at the same time she didn't make me think the world was safe so that I could venture out. I also couldn't talk about intimate matters that I needed to, that really bothered me, and that I needed help with. So, not everything was right in the relationship. Yes, it probably was kind of disabling. I didn't learn to depend on myself or have confidence in myself.

It is interesting to think about how Bt triggered me. Compared to Kt, she did. I think because she didn't do anything for me, and wanted to push me away. I wanted her to love me but she wanted me to be independent. She did love me in a way, because she DID push me out, though on the other hand, she let me stay in therapy for 5 years. By PUSHING me, it wasn't out, but wanting me to be independent from her. She had excellent intentions, but it felt like rejection to me, and I can't stand rejection.