Today's session

(((( zoo ))))

I am so glad you made it through your procedure, and I can imagine how hard it was for you. But you DID IT!!!

About your T....I am SO confused by her behavior. She seems so defensive and dismissive....It seems as though she is like this mostly around the phone calls - which helps me wonder what on earth is going on in her life that's impacting how she is able to perform her responsibilities as a therapist. I hate that your primary support right now is someone who is so utterly unpredictable and potentially damaging.

I'm so so so sorry that you have to deal with this crud after just going through your procedure.

(((( HUGS ))))

Wow. I am in shock. Sending you tons of hugs!

Wow. She needs therapy.

I guess one of the benefits of the recent rupture I had with T is that I was forced to find support elsewhere in my life. And I have been putting my time and energy into cultivating those relationships.

What's so hard about T doing this right now, though, is that I talked to her yesterday about how hard this topic (the procedure I had today and the physical problems leading up to it) is to talk about with people. It's not something that is talked about openly in our society, and there is a lot of shame and embarrassment around it. T said that she understands that and that she wants to hear about it, that none of the details are too gross for her. I told her she is the one person in my life that I feel okay talking about the details with. So now I've lost that, but I will be okay. I will be okay.

I'm not okay right now, I wasn't okay before Ts voicemail and that certainly didn't help, but I WILL be okay. I will get through this the way I have gotten through it before, and I can feel already that it's not as hard as it was last time. I'm not frantic to talk to T, I'm not spiraled out and dizzy and shaking. I learned in that last rupture that I can be okay without T, and I feel good that I tried to work through that rupture and I did all I could. I can walk away now without feeling like I messed up or that I didn't try hard enough.

Also? If I don't ever see T again, having my last session with her be the way it was yesterday, feeling so connected, having that hug from her at the end, it's not a bad way to go end. I can look back on that as my last session and know that T cared about me and that I'm worth caring about.

in the interest of full disclosure, I'm going to paste the texts I sent T here. This was my knee-jerk, purely emotional reaction to her voice mail. I sent these 2 texts about a minute apart. It's funny because I thought I sent a bunch of texts, like 6 or 7, but when I (cringingly) went back to look, it was just these 2. Shew!

I hope she reads them and takes me at my word, because if she tries to charge me for missing my next session there is no way I'm paying for it.

Zoo ((((((((((safe hugs for you))))))))))

I'm reading this thread and I have been sitting here trying to come up with some feedback about this T based on what you tell us. I'm sorry to say, I'm just so...confused about her behavior. I wonder if she is very self critical and replays the sessions in her head over and over and decides that if she feels she gave "too much", she pulls back between sessions to balance it? But doesn't take into consideration the harm she is doing? I'm not saying that based on what you told us, that she was too supportive in you're session, I'm just saying that maybe she has way too much inner conflict with her own boundaries to be able to model it effectively for her clients. Or maybe she just needs whatever meds she is on, adjusted. Hey, T's take meds to. Just some thoughts...

(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

You HAVE to make a stand for yourself. Be honest. I am just sorry you are in such pain. I think your T is trying and does care. But she is not hitting the mark.

I'm not laying all the "blame", if there has to be blame, on my T. The problems in our relationship have come from both of us. It's just such a different, weird kind of relationship, this therapy thing. I have different standards for my T than I would for anyone else in any other role in my life. One of those is that T needs to be consistent. T needs to have clear boundaries. T needs to be compassionate.

This T of mine, she is very compassionate at times (like yesterday) and I think TTGB you are right, she gives from the heart but then later feels like she gave too much (I'm guessing, no idea what she's really thinking or feeling) so she pulls away. It's a very...doesn't it seem a very borderline way to behave? Very polarized, very black and white?

I guess that's one of my standards for a T, too. I have to have a T that creates a safe, stable place for me. I can't have a T who is a reactive and emotionally labile as I am, that just doesn't work.

wepow, thank you. I am concerned that someone reading this will think I am saying T is horrible or that I think T is doing something to me out of meanness. I am not saying that. My T is very good at her job, to a point. She is an excellent DBT skills trainer, for example. I think she cares a lot about her clients, and I do believe that she cares about me in a genuine and authentic way. I think she just is not very good at setting limits, at the whole boundary thing. Then she starts to feel "pushed" as she said in her voicemail, and reacts to that by pulling away. I think it isn't very professional and is possibly unethical for a T to behave this way with a client in crisis or a client in distress. It is unfortunate and it does hurt, but it doesn't mean I think T is a bad person or a bad T. I also don't think I am a bad person or a bad client. I learned a lot from my T and I am thankful for all the support she has given me.

And I need a T now that can offer me something that this T just cannot offer. I have the right, and the responsibility to myself (to little zoo), to find a T who CAN offer that, and to have a therapeutic relationship that isn't so painful.

(((( zoo )))))

You are handling this so well....and I am so glad that you are working towards taking care of YOU. I too know and understand that your T cares....but I also agree that you need some things in a therapeutic relationship that your T is just unable to give you.

Zoo, you are correct in saying that black and white thinking seems like a borderline behavior. You are also correct in saying that you have no idea what she is thinking and feeling. You most likely will never have a clear understanding. What I saw from your previous posts on this thread is that you are okay with what you are feeling you need to do for yourself in this situation. And thats the important thing. I wont spend anymore time on this thread trying to figure out why your T does this. But what I will do, since this is about you, is validate your feelings and support your decisions about your therapy and keep sending you safe hugs. You are strong Zoo. Keep Going!!!

(((((((Zoo)))))))

Yes, this, exactly.

If I had to put my finger on the most important, valuable, and healing thing in my relationship with T, it would be his absolute consistency. He is able to hold a calm, safe, well-boundaried space, and that allows me to feel what I need to feel, and say what I need to say. If there have been times when he's wondered if he's given too much, or has felt overwhelmed, or whatever, I know that he would have taken it to his own T, or to a colleague and never, ever to me. He may come back to me with feedback, but not in the heat of the moment.

There have been maybe one or two times when T wasn't able to hold that space for whatever reason (like me kicking at him - ugh), but I know that in the end, I can count on him to be the same stable guy that he always is.

Therapy is hard, hard work. Our real life relationships are difficult enough to navigate...our therapy relationship shouldn't be like that. We hire T to provide a framework where we can learn skills that we can take to our crazy real-life relationships. T is not modeling those skills for you right now, and of course it's crazy making.

You are handling this really well, zoo. And if you DO get angry or freak out or whatever, that is okay too. Both are okay.
to you

(((zoo))) She *is* acting kind of borderline -- like you said, reactive, emotionally labile. *And* at the same time she is a good T in many other ways.

Not that this excuses her at all, since she is the T and it is her job to behave professionally and in a way that responds appropriately to your needs, but.. think about it. She chose to devote her career to working with BPD. A lot of people who choose to devote themselves to a certain aspect of the psych field do so for very personal reasons. I am an example of that -- I am going to specialize in psychotherapy research for anxiety disorders (and, I have to see about this, but I may specialize in PTSD) and I have very personal reasons for doing that. I have experienced a lot of incompetent T's and I want to make the field better so people don't have to go through what I went through. So I choose to specialize in therapy research. For people with problems like mine.

It's possible your T is recovering from BPD herself, maybe she had it full-blown when she was younger and overcame most of it but still struggles with boundaries.

This isn't to excuse her though in ANY way because as a T it is her responsibility to maintain balance and not allow these issues to affect her work, and it is her responsibility to seek supervision when she is feeling a bit shaky. Which she is right now. This is just to say that you did not do anything wrong, this really does seem like confusing and erratic behavior, and that I think you are incredibly strong to be coping with this right now. Those two texts you sent were just honest, I didn't think they seemed like overreactions at all.

Zoo, I just want to say how strong I think you are and that I really admire you. Keep up the courage, bravery, and great work!

WTF????? Isn't that WHY we all go to therapy FFS?

I take back my first post zoo. This t is a lunatic! And quite possibly borderline.......

Right???

I just want to thank you guys. I feel like I come here and am always in the middle of some freak out with my T, and I am glad that there are still people here who are willing to help me process it. It is invaluable. I can't imagine how alone I would be feeling right now if I didn't have the support here.

And thanks also for validating my experience. It is really easy for me to question myself and my perceptions of what is going on. that's why I posted her voicemail and my texts as well. That IS what was said, and to see that there are others here who have a similar reaction to it as my own, that is validation, and it helps a lot.

I was surprised when I went back and read my texts, because I thought I sent this huge string of texts just full of emotional vomit, and really what I sent wasn't anything I am ashamed of or feel any need to apologize for. I am sort of proud of myself for being able to edit my reaction in the heat of the moment.

I don't know if I'll hear from T again, and if I do, I don't know if there is anything she could say that would make a difference at this point. I am ok with moving on from here. There are a lot of other Ts in the world.

I thought about how it would feel if I talked to her, imagined what I could hear that would change anything, and I don't know what it could be. I would love to hear an apology, a validation, but it won't take away from my feeling that I need to walk away. I sent T that text last night (up in my orig post) and thanked her for being there for me. I meant that, and I don't feel like I have much else left to say.

I am strong enough to protect myself, maybe for the first time in my life. I owe it to myself and to little zoo to do just that.

((((((Zoo))))))
You sound so ok with walking away from this T, so strong and ready to take charge of your treatment by finding one that can better help you. Maybe you and T this have done as much as you can together, and now it's up to you and a different T to go from here...is that what it feels like? I like what you said in a previous post about, if yesterday's session turns out to be your last, that you will remember it by the good feelings you experienced. That makes for a good conclusion to this phase of the therapeutic journey (therapeutic journey? cliche phrase, I know )

Hi zoo. ((((((hugs))))))

I have a headache from reading all of this but that's okay. I don't think you are dissing your T, you are just saying.......you know what? This isn't working for me anymore. You sound strong and secure in your posts. I can see some real growth on your part just in the last few weeks from your last rupture until now. You are taking on your own issues, taking care of little zoo, standing up for yourself. I guess that is one good thing about this situation.
You deserve better. Not dissing your T again, but this is not a healthy situation for anyone. This is a good reminder of why there are boundaries and why T's should have someone they can talk to about their clients...........and that person should not be their client. Sending love your way. I hope you heal quickly.

Hi Zoo,

I've followed what has happened since that initial rupture.

I would have felt the same way as you have (if in your situation) I'm sure.

It makes me feel like talking to your T myself. Like I wish there was something that could be said that would make a difference... not that there's anything that would help anymore than what you have done for yourself...you've done so well!

You REALLY have. You're doing so well. I hope you know that.



I'd be really proud to know someone/have a friend like you.

Look after yourself!

Zoooropa,

You seem to swing back and forth to such extremes with your feelings about T.
And it seems that when she does something wrong, you automatically leap to: Its over.

While people here can validate your feelings, no one here can validate that the situation is exactly as you describe, because it involves 2 people, 2 different perceptions, and electronic communication which can be dodgy.

You say you are "angry, hurt and devestated" - is there any way you can put those feelings on hold until you can address the situation with your T in person?

I'm not supporting your T and I'm not on her side. It just seems silly not to learn from what you have experienced in previous ruptures. There can be a middle ground between having a good T and being devestated b/c you feel your T let you down.

T left me a voicemail this morning, and I left one in return. She basically just reiterated what she said in the msg last night, including that I need to not look to her for emotional support. She encouraged me to not quit, to not give up.

In my message I said I need her to hear me loud and clear: I'm not coming back. I said our last rupture was one of the most painful experiences of my life, and that I am not willing to go through that again right now.
I also said something about how much I just needed her support yesterday and that it is too bad she chose to use that as an opportunity to practice setting limits. I told her I don't think she's a bad person or a bad therapist, but that she cannot give me what I need in a T right now. I told her I need a T who is not as reactive and emotional as I am, and in order to feel safe I need a T who sets clear boundaries and maintains them consistently.
I said I felt supported, cared for, and validated in our session this week, and that I'm okay with that being our last one. I said I want to look back on that and that the idea of coming in again and possibly facing her anger and her frustration is more than I can handle.
I thanked her for the support and the tools she has given me, I told her I will never forget her, and at the end I said I love you.

Because I do love her, in a way, and I have never told her that and I really think that if I didn't tell her that would probably be the only regret I would have carried.

I don't know if this is the "right" thing to do or not, but deep down I think there isn't a right or wrong here. I have tried and tried with T, and I have learned a lot in the process. It's okay to stop here. I will continue to learn in all my relationships I have throughout the rest of my life. I don't have to keep raking myself over the coals.

I am sad but I'm okay. I think, darkrunner, what I said or what I meant to say yesterday is that I'm NOT devastated by this, unlike last time. And that is true today. I am sad and I have been crying but I'm not torn up. I'm not frantic.

I sent T a text asking her to please not call me anymore. I hope she respects that. Her message this morning was hard to listen to and I need to save my energy for getting through what's going on here, in my life, and not what's going on with T. I asked her to just let me go, please.

(((((((zoo))))))))

I don't know if there is a "right" thing to do....but it sounds like right at this moment, the "best" thing is to listen to your inner wisdom and follow your instincts.... and it sounds like that is what you are doing.

Thinking of you as you move through this place

For what it's worth, any competent therapist knows that the friends and other loved ones of a client cannot be expected to handle the client's emotions while in distress or while experiencing a crisis. Telling you to go to your friends for emotional support for something this upsetting was ridiculous.

Again, for what it's worth. Hope you feel better soon and more power to you for being so strong during this whole thing Zoo

((((((((((((((((((ZOOOOOOOOOO))))))))))))))))))))))))))

((((((((zoo))))))))

I am glad you have no regrets. That is important when you are ending.

I hope when you feel ready that you won't give up on you, on your therapy. Do you know someone or have anyone who can refer you to a new T? I think that may help you with the transition.

(((((((Hugs)))))))))