help me figure this out

replying to myself just to say T didn't respond to my email.
I guess I was in that weird place of not expecting her to but deep down hoping she would. And maybe she still will, we'll see.

I'm trying really hard to not set some stupid rule about it my head, because more than once I have found myself thinking "if she doesn't reply by the end of the weekend I just won't go see her on Monday."

I do that a lot, make stupid little rules about $hit. I'm working on remembering that, in this case for example, there may be good reasons to stay home on Monday and at the same time there may also be good reasons to go, but in no way is it a wise mind decision to choose based on whether she responds to ONE email, especially an email in which I did not ask for a reply.

I mean. She didn't respond to the last email I sent, and that time I DID ask for a reply, so. It's almost like I'm looking for a reason.

Luckily, I know better than to believe everything I think.

((((((((((((((Zoo)))))))))))

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time right now. I'm glad you are able to see your thinking pattern related to this one email. That is great.

OMG, I have just found myself nodding my head off at the above sentence
I used to do this ALL the time with my previous t - the one I completely screwed over and is still "on leave" 2 yrs later

Zoo, I think you've been incredibly brave and strong throughout this episode with your t. I hope that continues

What is your motivation for emailing this to T? This sounds like you have decided you don't want to repair the relationship. DBT skills, like DEARMAN GIVE FAST are skills that could help you with the relationship, regardless of whether you want to stay with her or not. You might want to find another T, and that is fine but it's not something to throw out there in an email and it sounds manipulative to me. Like you are trying to get her to beg you to stay. If your goal is to repair the relationship, this doesn't fit with that. Even if you do find another T, you say here that you dont want to end on a sour note. This sounds like another empty threat because you are basically telling her that you are done, which you have said many times before but you are still there. It sounds like you are trying to provoke T. Part of DBT is learning how to be in relationships, including the therapeutic relationship, and how your behavior effects others.

just want to clarify what i mean when i say "how your behavior effects others". I don't mean that you have to take care of your T and worry about your T's feelings. That's her job. What i mean, and is meant in DBT, is your behavior can effect others in ways that can make people withdraw from you, not want to be around you or be in a relationship with you, not want to give you what you want from them etc. Our behavior has a great influence on how others see us and treat us. That is what is meant by that.

How will you feel if she responds with list of referrals? Or with a message telling you that no, she doesn't know that particular T, or yes she does? And that she would be willing to send your records to the new T? How will you feel if she doesn't ask you to come in and work through this, this time? Just trying to help you see how these ruptures/ attempts and repair can go downhill fast, when you try to elicit certain responses from T while asking for a different response.

Tay. It is my Ts idea to end therapy, not mine. If she didn't want to end it I wouldn't have any hesitation about working through this with her. As it is, it just feels kind of pointless. I'm not thrilled with how you immediately jumped in with to point out my mistakes and how this is all my fault, how I'm being manipulative. I sent the email because, despite everything, I value my Ts opinion and since I have no choice but to terminate I wanted her input on my next step. That's all. Sheesh.

Oh, I must have missed that post because you said this on june 19th :

and this:

but now you say its' her idea to end! Geesh! Zoo, if you read my post i am just trying to help you. Yes, your email was manipulative! I dont buy that ******** that you value her opinion at all. You have for months posted crap about your T and how she does this and that wrong and now you are telling me you value her opinion? YOUR behavior is what is causing your problems. Why dont you just be honest?

Yes, she wants me to work through this, and then she wants me to be done. I'm not going to argue with you, Tay. If you are so convinced I am a manipulative liar there is nothing I can say to change your mind.

(((((Zoo)))))

It's not "helping" when you directly insult and curse at another member, Tay, sorry.

I never said that. This is an example of how you consistently misinterpret things.

I have to agree with some of the others' responses. It seems if you truly value your therapists opinion you would go to your session Monday and talk face to face with her. There is no need for emails in between that cause more drama than necessary.

well said!

I am not your enemy zoo. I am your friend. I realize you don't always like to hear what I say, but I am giving you honest feedback about what i see. I read your threads and listen and care and try to help. It seems like you would rather just hear what you want to hear so you dont have to take responsibility for how you contribute to the problems in the relationship. I'm not saying your t doesn't makes mistakes, but you can only change your own behavior. You can get another therapist, but you may just find that history repeats itself if the core issues are not resolved.

Me too, me too....

Uh, yeah, you did Tay. You used the word manipulative more than once, actually, and said I am not being honest.

It is probably really easy to sit here and read the threads and play pretend therapist, analyzing every word and pointing out any perceived inconsistencies. I don't know what you get out of that, but it sure as fukk isn't as hard as coming here and being open and vulnerable about your emotions and your actions. I post here because I am trying to figure out why I do what I do, and how to make my life better. I could just lurk and read and criticize, but I don't. I put myself out there. And in the process I open myself up to attacks like yours, but that doesn't mean I have to take your words to heart. I doesn't even mean I have to read them.

You have given me good feedback in the past and I have appreciated your ability to show me another way to look at things. This is not that kind of constructive criticism, however. This is abuse, and the insights I may glean from some of your posts are not enough to make it worth it. I wish you luck, Tay. I hope someday you work as hard in therapy as I do.

Zoo, I feel for you as you struggle with your T relationship. I have a high degree of contact with my T in between sessions too through text, emails, or phone calls. While this outside communication has been very helpful for me, it also has allowed me to lash out in anger at my T, get disappointed when she's too busy to respond, or misunderstand her meaning.

Right now, so much is going on with your T relationship, in addition to the stressors within your life. I know that you do phone coaching with your T, but perhaps for a little while, you could, as some have suggested, not contact her between sessions until you guys have figured things out whether it be to continue or to discontinue. The phone contact seems right now to be a breeding ground for misunderstanding, heartache, and stress for the both of you and it spills into your sessions. If you temporarily limit your contact to your sessions, you guys, I think, could more easily work through things and avoid the misunderstandings. Also, perhaps the hurting feelings would not linger within you as much between the sessions, as I would imagine contacting and waiting for responses perpetuate these negative feelings.

Good luck and wish you well!

I agree that limiting contact to sessions only is probably a good idea. I proposed that to my T about a month ago, and then again last week. She says "that is not how DBT is done", but just because she won't "agree" to limiting contact doesn't mean I am obligated to contact her.

It's all just a moot point because therapy is winding up. She must have mentioned that 5 times in my last session. I told her it feels like she is stabbing me in the stomach every time she says it. Is it so hard to understand why I would want this to end on my terms, if the end is inevitable anyway?

((((Hugs)))))) Hoping it is less painful for you. You will get through this Zoo! And remember to take care of Little Zoo too!

(((((zoo)))))

Sending you true support and best wishes. You are not manipulative or a liar, no matter what others may think. You are being honest and really looking at yourself and your relationship with T. I admire how brave you are, not only in dealing with your relationship with your T but also in dealing with people who have things to say that are not helpful in any way.

(((((Zoo)))))
Like so many others have stated before, you are only doing the best you can do with the situation you're in. I agree with what you said in your last post - nobody can judge you until they've been in your shoes, doing the work you've been doing, and trying as d*mn hard as you have been to make it all work out. Everything becomes different once you're the person sitting on that couch. Stay strong.

I typed out a long message and then "poof"....into cyberspace it went...GRRR.

(((( zoo ))))

I know that you're going through an incredibly difficult time, and I imagine that your feelings go from one extreme to the other....and that's so understandable....I'm glad that you're still on track to work towards finding a T that can meet your therapeutic needs AND that you are working to find closure with your existing T. Both of those things are valuable goals.

As far as Tay's comments go.....taking the judgment and harshness out of it....I can understand how it could be possible to wonder whether or not there was some kind of subconscious underlying motive for sending that email to T. And only you can take in that feedback and see whether or not it fits. If it doesn't, great! If it does, great! All in the name of awareness. I know that there have been times when I've tried finding a reason to contact T when all I really wanted was to read a few reassuring words from him, or just so that we could make some kind of connection. So, for me, the underlying message in Tay's post would be something for me to really consider.

Umm, I have been pointing out ACTUAL inconsistencies in order to help you do this:

which is what you asked for in the title of your thread "help me figure this out"

I get to be verbally slapped in the face by you.

I haven't attacked you at all.

Okay zoo, you can paint me black. If you weren't so wrapped up in you, you would know a little bit about my story and how hard I have worked in therapy. I have been where you are, in the throes of borderline thinking and behavior and have come out the other side. I lost my first therapist due to the same kinds of behaviors that you post about all the time between you and your therapist. I have admitted to manipulation more than a few times. I have worked very hard to change my behaviors and build a life worth living. I've been supportive of you all this time, but you just forget all that because you dont like my directness and interpret it as harshness. This sounds exactly like what you do with your T. Yeah, I don't post in distress and pour out my pain like you do all the time because I'm not in that place anymore. But you can stay in victim mode as long as you want if that's what works for you.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=181614

This is for any newbies who think I am harsh and unsupportive. This situation has been going on a long time, and i have been there throughout from the beginning. I don't think I deserve to be bashed.

Sometimes it's hard to face the truth. I do not believe your responses are harsh at all...the insight you have provided has been well stated.

Words. How they are meant, how they are interpreted. For example, the word "manipulative" can be meant as an attack -- or it can be meant as an attempt to simply describe something accurately. It can signify that the one who uses the word is unhappy. (Though I think there must be a better choice of words since it is so easy to see it as an attack.) In any case, if there is a discontinuity between how words are meant and how they are seen, only more discussion can resolve the mismatch. And if the person who is more trained cannot work through this, then the therapy is in trouble. JMO.