[rainbow8]

I don't know if it's triggering to write about holding hands and Mommy/baby stuff, but just in case I wanted to put the warning on this thread.

I started thinking about why I felt satisfied in my session last week. It bothered me when my T said the words "in my private life" but I didn't say anything until later in the session when I realized I'd have a problem when I left if I didn't tell her. So, she was curious about how I was feeling right then. I told her I didn't want her to have a private life; I wanted to "bang the door in". I asked if she could hold my hand and she did, just for a short time. It was almost the end of the session.

Today it just came to me that the door represents a barrier between my T and me. I was wondering if my parents put up barriers or kept me out of things, but nothing comes to mind about that. What came to me is the baby stuff, that I want to be as close as I can to my T. I can picture an angry child breaking down the door to get close, though in RL I never wanted to get close to people. Or maybe I wanted to, but I couldn't. But with my T, I want to get close to her like a Mommy and baby. I think holding hands satisfies me because it's "skin to skin" with no barrier. Hand to hand, skin to skin, like babies are with their Mommies. I don't like hugging her as much, because it's not totally touching skin to skin.

I feel like what I wrote fits. I never expected to like holding an adult woman's hand so much so it's kind of weird. If anyone would ask what is the most healing part of this therapy it would be holding my T's hand. My friend held my hand recently and it felt good also. It doesn't feel the same when my H does it. It's not sexual; it just has to be a woman, or someone nurturing maybe.

[Butterflies Are Free]

Glad that it helps; my T will do the same thing at times and it reminds me of my mom(she lives a plane ride away from me) - my T is also only a few years younger than my mom, which is nice.

[Sannah]

Rainbow, good insight! Did you look at the video on the thread "Dance of Attunement" by Skysblue? What comes to mind when you watch this?

[stopdog]

I find it interesting that holding her hand is comforting to you. I want them to stay far away from me physically (I would like an iron grate and concrete walls) at all times, but the idea of having my hand held would make me feel trapped (I am not big on holding hands even with my partner- I can only tolerate it for a few minutes). It is really nice (I think) that your t did hold your hand and it is good you know it is comforting with her and other people.

[purple_fins]

Im glad you can find comfort in that rainbow I think that's lovely.

though it never ceases to amaze me how people can be so different....

I find it interesting that holding her hand is comforting to you. I want them to stay far away from me physically (I would like an iron grate and concrete walls) at all times, but the idea of having my hand held would make me feel trapped (I am not big on holding hands even with my partner- I can only tolerate it for a few minutes).

Wow! I think you might be my twin stopdog! I would feel exactly the same-"trapped". I think I'd feel an imbalance in the power structure.

fins

[rainbow8]

Butterflies: I don't remember my Mom holding my hand or feeling comforted in the same way by her. I'm glad you have a T who will hold your hand and your reminded of your own mother.

Sannah: I watched the video and found it interesting. I can't imagine my Mom being unresponsive to me. She was always there for me, and I was wanted and loved. Maybe they let me cry in the incubator. Or maybe I didn't take in my mother's love. I don't know. There's GOT to be a reason I'm so needy and that it feels like from preverbal times!! And that holding my T's hand satisfies me so very much.

stopdog: I used to back away from hugs because I didn't grow up with them. My women friends hugged and I didn't want any part of it. I was afraid of physical affection. This is the first T who has allowed touch, and I'm finding it is something I crave.

purple_fins: Yes, we're each different! I feel that my T and are the SAME when we hold hands. We're equal, though I know it doesn't feel the same to her. I can't explain it; I can just FEEL it and it's peaceful, like the way I feel when I'm by a lake or in the water.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I can't imagine my Mom being unresponsive to me. She was always there for me, and I was wanted and loved.

I used to back away from hugs because I didn't grow up with them. I was afraid of physical affection. This is the first T who has allowed touch, and I'm finding it is something I crave.

You can't imagine it and I really believe this. Maybe you just can't go there yet, which does happen to many people? You write that you didn't grow up with hugs, maybe this is what you didn't get and needed? You write that your mom was always there for you and that you were wanted and loved. I totally believe this but it is still possible that you still didn't get something that you needed and the topic of the hugs is one example. A parent can always be there for you physically but not be there totally for you emotionally.

[rainbow8]

I know what you're saying, Sannah. But you didn't know my mother. She absolutely loved me! But I agree that I missed something because she was so anxious. I think it's the calm, peace, SAFETY I missed. Also, we weren't a demonstrative family, so love was expressed more by concern and action than by exchange of feelings. I usually hid my feelings from my parents. I didn't confide in my Mom. I didn't know how, or I didn't want to worry her, or I was just too shy. A combination. But I remember we had a thing about rubbing noses like the Eskimos, for a time when I was a child, and calling each other "little (not sure of the word) and big". So I remember that as a close connection, but I think it changed around age 11.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

But I agree that I missed something because she was so anxious. I think it's the calm, peace, SAFETY I missed. Also, we weren't a demonstrative family, so love was expressed more by concern and action than by exchange of feelings. I usually hid my feelings from my parents. I didn't confide in my Mom. I didn't know how, or I didn't want to worry her, or I was just too shy.

Her anxiety could have interfered with you getting what you really needed.

When you write that love was expressed by concern and then you mix this with anxiety.......... it could be an outcome that isn't pleasant.

Of course your mom loved you, this doesn't mean that she was capable of meeting your needs though.

If you hid your feelings from your parents this says a lot. To me it says that you couldn't show what your needs were. How could your needs have been met if you were hiding your feelings? Maybe you hid your feelings because this was how you got a better outcome?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I find it interesting that holding her hand is comforting to you. I want them to stay far away from me physically (I would like an iron grate and concrete walls) at all times, but the idea of having my hand held would make me feel trapped (I am not big on holding hands even with my partner- I can only tolerate it for a few minutes). It is really nice (I think) that your t did hold your hand and it is good you know it is comforting with her and other people.

Although I don't feel this strongly about it, I can't imagine holding hands with T. I think I'm only comfortable holding hands with my little grandsons. Otherwise, I have no idea what that would feel like - holding hands with another adult. It doesn't appeal to me so it's not an issue.

I'm glad for you Rainbow that your T will do for you what you need. Had you initially asked for it? I can't imagine asking my T for that even if I wanted it.

[rainbow8]

Sannah: no, I got a terrible outcome by hiding my needs! I guess there were some payoffs though. You've posted this to me before. I didn't tell my Mom my problems, so I didn't get comforted. Who is to blame, her or me? Or is just was the way it was?

skysblue: Years ago I wanted to hold my first Ts hand but she didn't allow touch. I was worried it would feel sexual so I wanted to know. We didn't talk about it much. I told my former T I thought about holding her hands, but she didn't do touch either.

My current T told me she allows hugs but I didn't want any! The holding hands came up when my eyes were closed and we were doing IFS about a child part who was feeling sad and alone. I remember my T asking what could she or I do to help? What does that part need? I hesitated for a LONG time and said "she wants you to hold her hand". I was scared to say that! My T asked me if I wanted that, to be sure, or something to that effect, because I sounded tentative, and I probably nodded. Next thing I knew she was sitting next to me on the couch, holding my hand! My eyes were still closed, as that's how we do IFS. I remember how good it felt, but I was so embarrassed!! My T said touch was healing, and if that's what that part needs to heal, that's what we'll do. I was so afraid it would feel sexual, but it didn't. It just felt safe and nice.

Thanks for asking.

[PreacherHeckler]

But Rainbow, when kids feel emotionally safe with their parents they will ask for what they need because they will expect to have their needs met. The fact that you didn't ask seems like a good indication that you didn't feel as safe as you think you felt.

Totally understand why the hand holding feels good. My t holding hands is one of the most healing things we have in therapy. We even hold hands when we go on walks. Its so comforting. My t is also big on hugs

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I didn't tell my Mom my problems, so I didn't get comforted. Who is to blame, her or me? Or is just was the way it was?

You didn't tell your mom for good reasons, only your subconscious knows exactly what those reasons were. Who needs to blame anyway? What good does it do? What is important IMO is understanding what happened so that you can work through it.

[venusss]

As somebody who is into energy work, I am very hesistant of touch. Did not grow in huggie environment (and I am totally fine with that. Mom did energy work on me though. She still does, which is awesome. But we never overly cuddled when I was litt). I just feel touching somebody whom I don't have close bond with violates my aura and my personal space. I shield myself even from energetic intrusion...

maybe this may be the factor you like? The energetic/soul connection?

[rainbow8]

Thanks. I gotta go on errands and pack, though this discussion is compelling for me. Will think about it all, and maybe get on later.

One thing: Preacher: I didn't say I felt safe with my Mom. She worried about everything, as do I. I feel safe with my T.

[PreacherHeckler]

Exactly, Rainbow. Which begs the question of why didn't you feel safe with someone you cannot bear to think of as anything but loving toward you?

[rainbow8]

Preacher: I didn't feel safe because she worried a lot and made me anxious. I don't see a conflict. She loved me very much and was overprotective. I felt loved but not safe as in feeling that the world was safe. She didn't then, meet my need to be independent. That I know. But I also didn't feel comfortable telling her physical stuff that I thought was wrong with me. I suppose I didn't want to "upset the apple cart" and was scared. I never thought she wouldn't LOVE me if I confided in her. Those are the kinds of needs I'm talking about. I can tell my T anything, but those same concerns I never told my Mom.

So, can't a mother love her child but the child still feels afraid to tell her things that happened to her or things she's worried about? That was my situation. I wasn't afraid of my mother or father hurting me.

Sannah, the above is as much as I understand about it. I was embarrassed or ashamed to ask or tell my mother about some stuff I think, like I said, because she would worry too much. I suppose a child or teenager shouldn't have to protect her/his mother. Or I was protecting myself too. I didn't know how to talk about my body. Too ashamed. I also didn't want to talk about social issues and school problems.

SarahMichelle: Yes, I agree!! Holding hands with T is great!

VH: I'm not sure I understand about energy work, but it's probably a factor. The connection feels vibrant/alive/meaningful to me.

[Sannah]

Rainbow, I so get how her anxiety would have affected you.

I get the feeling that the topic of her loving you is a very sensitive one? Do you think that the fear that she didn't love you keep you from dealing with your feelings about all of this? And this fear of poking around in all of this is what keeps you from really dealing with it and moving on? So you need to keep up the fantasy with your therapist so that you don't have to deal with the real issues?

I really, really don't doubt that your mother loved you very, very much but I can also see how it would have entered your mind while you were growing up that maybe she didn't love you when your needs weren't getting really getting met and these subconscious thoughts from long ago are keeping you from going there???????

[rainbow8]

Sannah, I don't think I ever feared that my mother didn't love me. That's NOT part of my history. There's got to be another explanation because that one doesn't fit. I don't think it's in my subconscious either. I really don't. I'm not trying to deny anything. I know what fits and what doesn't. I don't mind your questions, so don't think that. I just don't fit the mold you're trying to put me in. If I thought I was afraid my mother didn't love me, I would know it.

I WANT to deal with the real issues but I don't know what they are!!!! My T just thinks my Mom and I didn't mesh right but it's not about thinking she didn't love me. I remember when I changed schools in 3rd or 4th grade. I didn't like my new school and stayed home a lot. I said "I don't feel good". My mother would ask what hurt me and I would say "I don't know." I just couldn't express myself to her or to anyone. My stomach hurt and I felt like I wanted to be home when I was at school, but I couldn't tell my Mom that. She let me stay home mornings but I went to school in the afternoons. I gradually got over it after I made some friends.

When I broke my finger I didn't tell my parents. They wouldn't have been angry. I don't know why I didn't tell them. It never healed.

I don't know why I couldn't tell her I was worried something else was physically wrong with me--for 8 years. I know she loved me. I was just embarrassed to ask her. So my need to have a mother I could confide in wasn't met, but it has nothing to do with thinking at any time that she didn't love me, or wouldn't love me if I wasn't perfect. I knew I wasn't perfect. Maybe I didn't want to disappoint her, but it's not about her not loving me. Well, maybe I thought I couldn't be sick or have something wrong with me, that my mother wouldn't be able to handle it, or that she would get upset and overreact. Out of a great love for me, not the opposite.

I wonder if the feeling you missed out on when you were growing up was the feeling of safety? And maybe of nurturing?

Your mother loved you very much, I don't think that's in question at all. It sounds to me like you were missing the fundamental feeling of being safe in the world. Your mom didn't feel safe, and in order to protect her, you didn't tell her the things that made you hurt, or made you sad, or made you afraid. And without being able to share those things with her, it seems like maybe you missed out on the nurturing that would tend to follow when it IS safe to share those things.

I've told T stories of things that have happened between me and my boys...like when one of them has brought a big sadness to me and we've talked about it together...and my T has said "you just made the world a little safer for him". He doesn't say "you made him feel loved". I've always thought that was interesting. Like feeling safe is THAT important.

I wonder if your desire to be with T so much has to do with an unmet need to just be able to say whatever you need to say without worrying that the "caretaker" won't be able to handle it? In a way, by not telling things to your mom, you were taking care of HER. Now T is taking care of YOU.

Feel free to toss out anything that doesn't fit! That's just what struck me when I read your post.

Hugs to you, ((((((rainbow)))))

[PreacherHeckler]

Rainbow my thoughts are similar to Treehouse's in that you seem to have a great need to defend and protect your mother as a caretaker would even though no one here, as far as I know, has ever suggested that your mother didn't love you. Yet that's what you seem to read into some of our responses and I'm not sure where that's coming from.
I am always struck by how quickly you rise to defend her, sometimes before you seem willing to even consider a point of view that feels uncomfortable to you. It's almost as though you need to convince yourself more than you need to convince the rest of us.

[unaluna]

It's okay to think about these things. You were worried you weren't going to be safe on your trip. You're not going to be punished for thinking about this, and you don't have to punish yourself. We are all with you, and we can all handle this together. You are doing really really good work here.

[rainbow8]

tree, I think your comments are valid. I didn't realize I missed out on the nurturing until I was in therapy. But you're right. If I would have told my mother, I'd have gotten reassurance. It wasn't like she was afraid of her shadow! She would have made me feel safer. I don't remember talking about my feelings at all! That's weird! I don't think I EVER had a conversation like you had with your son!

I wonder if your desire to be with T so much has to do with an unmet need to just be able to say whatever you need to say without worrying that the "caretaker" won't be able to handle it? In a way, by not telling things to your mom, you were taking care of HER. Now T is taking care of YOU.

That seems to fit though I didn't realize I was doing that as a child and teenager. I know that one reason I like therapy so much is that I can talk about everything on my mind. I can't seem to get enough of doing that. Maybe that's why I go on and on in the forum, too. I am making up for not talking about what really mattered to me in the past years. It seems like a real need to do that, to have a T or other people who listen to my feelings and can handle them, and accept me. It's becoming a little clearer. I always said our forum was sometimes better than therapy!

[rainbow8]

PH: I know that a lot of people who post on the forum have been mistreated by their mothers and/or fathers. I feel compassion for them but I want to make it clear that it's not my history. I'm afraid some may think I'm in denial about being abused, and that's why I'm quick to defend my mother. I have issues, but fortunately abuse by my parents is not one of them.