Does your T make mistakes?

Working on being able to depend on yourself will help you with this, instead of trying to place all responsibility on others for knowing everything or having prescience. Your T does know what she's doing. Sometimes people make mistakes. Maybe your T did, maybe she didn't. Maybe she tried an approach in therapy with a new client and it seemed to work well but maybe it needs to be fine tuned so she shifts the direction a bit. I don't necessarily consider these to be mistakes, but the trial and error that is part of most any endeavor. I think if you can work toward developing your own feeling of safety and confidence that you know what you are doing then it won't seem so disturbing when someone else in your life appears to not be absolutely certain of what they are doing. I think it would be good to discuss with your T your need to have someone in your relationship be responsible, make mistakes, mess up, or be at fault. You seem so eager to assign "blame" to someone, whether your T or yourself. Maybe therapy is just an organic thing, and it grows and changes with time, and there is no one who "messed up." You seem to have gotten so much out of therapy with this T, rainbow. Why do you want to pronounce it a failure? Seems kind of harsh.

The person who "allows" a T to make mistakes is the client. The client has to judge if the mistake is serious enough to harm the therapy. If it's a serious mistake, they can either choose to work through it (allow the mistake) or leave therapy (not allow the mistake). If it's not that serious, perhaps they can reframe it so they don't view it in such a negative light (i.e. stop viewing it as a "mistake") or just let sleeping dogs lie and get on with therapy. Rainbow, if the mistakes you refer to are serious, I urge you to work through them with your T.

Rainbow, I wonder if ... even if she'd done none of those things, you still would have ended up feeling the same way anyway? wondering mostly based on other relationships with T's that you've had in the past. I can understand how looking back now some of the things she allowed might feel like they could have been mistakes, because ... they hurt, it hurts, everything hurts with it, with all of it ... and the idea of reframing is so very painful. But maybe by working through it now (with hopefully a lot of her help and our support) it will lead to the healing you really desire, need and long for even more than you long for that connection with her? I'm not sure, i just want the best for you and for you to not hurt but to heal I don't know if they were mistakes; if they were what she thought was best at the time; or if it really was things that were best at the time but ended up hurting you even with the best of intentions ... and I know all of this has to be confusing and giving you lots to ponder

I don't know if she has made any therapeutic mistakes, but she has trouble with dates and has double booked me twice. I actually treasure this kind of mistake, as it makes her more human and approachable. Take that, T! I'm better at maths than you!

It's all too easy to see T as infallable. Dangerous. That would mean every misunderstanding was my fault.

I think therapists make mistakes and the really good ones owe up to them, apologize for them and then work to heal the rupture. That said, I also believe that mistakes are an important part of the therapeutic process. Most of us struggle with relationships. Many of us have been betrayed or had our ability to trust severely limited due to past experiences in relationships. The mistakes our therapists make with us gives us a very important opportunity to work through the inevitable "pitfalls" we all face when involved in a relationship. Rainbow, all the things you mention that you struggle with in your relationship with your therapist are things that trouble you a great deal. Isn't it better that you are having to deal with them in a safe, secure therapeutic relationship? The healing is painful, but you are digging down and really touching on issues that trouble you a great deal.

does my T make mistakes? you mean like taking me on as a client?! yes!

seriously: she has related for me a few IRL situations when she did - but as far as in our therapy, just one that I can think of. Any other instances I think of probably were contributed to by both of us, or were my "bad". Or didn't even exist but I "saw" that they did.

A lot of artists will say that their most creative moments were actually mistakes. I would say that, given what you've posted about your previous therapy and the ongoing therapy here, there is likely little chance that you would have engaged at all with this therapist had she not done the things that she had done.

I think now would be a very very good time for you to step back a bit and think logically about what is happening.

Are the things that are occurring in your therapy now good for you in the long run? In line with what you want your life to be post therapy?

yeah they may hurt now, but what do you really want? Can you make the argument that these are good, positive things for you in the long run?

I don't think you need to apologize. It's okay to ask a general question that allows you think about your situation more deeply. We are a community here to be engaged. If you had posted "I want to discuss my situation again", at least I would have had a hard time coming up with a response. However, I did feel that I could answer the question you asked, and I don't mind responding to it.

I don't think it's fair to label yourself as "needy", just because you started a thread. I think you deserve to be kinder to yourself.

Anne

I like the turn this thread is taking. Everyone has really hit the nail on the head. My two bits is: what is the moment of repair like? Sometimes you never reach it, because you never get past the hurt? At certain points in conversation with my close friends, they will just growl, really! It's like I've poked the bear? They're telling me I don't know what i'm talking about, i'm crossing a boundary, I don't know what. I see a missed opportunity for closeness or insight, blocked by their anger.

But when T does it with me, I cannot get angry with him. I may feel humiliated, embarrassed - but he is always so gentle and understanding and kind, and SO wants to know how I feel, SO wants to draw me out, it's like he wants me to drop my feelings in his hand while the other one is around my shoulder, even though we are yards apart, and it feels like our faces are touching. THAT'S a repair.

The intimacy, the connection was was ruptured, and now it's repaired. When mother and baby do it, it takes a lot of kisses to console and calm baby down, doesn't it? Well, WE wouldn't know, but for regular people, that's what I've heard, mothers actually put some effort into it, and WAIT for the babies to respond. Not make dismissive robot babies like us who can fix everything on their own and don't need or want anybody, especially not some T who is just going to mess things up more. Get me?

Rainbow, I think you are being too literal. Behavior and words are not things that can be arranged like furniture. I think you are thinking of the reframing as a literal, pretty picture having the old frame thrown out and a new one to replace it and you are worried you might not like the new frame so well with that picture?

It's more like a house with rotten beams, say termites have gotten to them :-) You want the house shored up and the beams replaced one by one, you want to reframe the house with more solid beams. It doesn't change the house, just how well it is supported.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ough-reframing

My T has made little mistakes, shes called me the wrong name a couple of times but she quickly realises.

biggest mistake?? transferring me to new person, Im prone to rebel, I already started rebelling, already told her I am rejecting the new meds, dont want them, ill rebel more aswell, alot of her hard work with me was immediatly undone that day.

Rainbow, I wonder if it would be helpful to you to have others talk about examples of reframing from their own lives. It might help you see how this work gets done. I also think the article is a good example of this (thanks, Perna).

I could share a story or two, I'm sure others could too, but don't want to put it on you unless you feel you'd like that.

Anne

stumpy: thank you for your wise words. They helped.

PH: I'll look at the site. Thank you.

sunrise: I appreciate everything you wrote. I don't know why I feel like I have to blame someone. I feel like this therapy is a failure because, as always with my therapy, what I've gotten MOST is the close connection with someone to the point of "addiction", which is simply a repetition of the pattern I've exhibited all of these years. Aside from that, my T has helped me with anxiety, taught me meditation and mindfulness, so it's not all a failure. But my main issue remains unsolved--so far. My T is still confident she can help me by delving more into my past. So maybe it's not a failure yet; I just feel like it is.

tigergirl: I KNOW I would have ended up feeling the same way towards my T no matter what because I haven't learned how to stop wanting what I can't have. My former T told me she was treating my "inner adult", not child, and guess what, the child parts rebelled and attached to her so badly that I couldn't quit for 7 years!

I know that my current T wants the best for me; if she made mistakes they weren't intentional. I know how dedicated she is, which makes me want her to succeed with me. I don't want this therapy to fail, for her sake and for mine. Thanks for your hugs and wishes for me.

Can'tExplain: I know what you mean about little mistakes that make our Ts more human.

Jaybird: Yes, I am glad I have my T to deal with these issues. If I didn't repeat the pattern with her, there would be nothing to work with! If she didn't make "mistakes", she wouldn't know how intense my feelings are about not getting what I wish I could have.

sawe: thank you!

elliemay: I agree that what is happening to me now is crucial for my healing. My fear is that I've been down this path before and nothing changes. Something inside of me has to get better. My T knows that, to her credit, so I hope working with the child parts more and more will help. Otherwise, I'm back to square one.

Anne: It's just that I think people are getting tired of my threads on the same subject.

hankster: I agree that we can repair ruptures with our Ts and that's the beauty of therapy. I'm glad your T makes you feel that way. I like your description of repair with him.

And this makes me confused, because it's been way less than 24 hours since you posted your and this thread has 36 posts to it. What about that suggests that "people" are tired of "your" threads?

And did you just tell the rest of us how we feel about contributing to this thread, which I'm reasonable sure that each one of us did out of a desire to be helpful, which is pretty much the opposite of "tired"?

I'm not trying to get all snarky on you, but I really don't like it when people tell me how I feel!

Anne

Okay, Anne. It was my other thread that I had to keep posting in because I didn't want it to disappear. I think granite and sannah were the only ones replying, and I appreciated them very much. I don't know why I always want more. Same pattern. Same problem. I purposely started a new thread that I thought would get more responses. This one.

I have to get on with RL now.

Oh, well. One more thing. Schema therapy. It sounds good, but has anyone done it? I'm not going to chase pots of gold at the end of rainbows anymore. IFS and EMDR are good enough right now. I'm tired and worn out from all this therapy. There's not one right way. Not DBT or schema or CBT or psychoanalysis. Not to criticize, Preacher! It sounds like it has potential!!! Is it taking over DBT or will it?

Sorry I'm cold and tired and hungry and not the best combination for posting right now.

Well, then I would definitely look at what happened back then, how you reacted, how the therapist reacted - everything.

Then don't do that again. Really, you have a lot of control over whether you back to square one or not.

elliemay: The only way I know is to distract myself but that's only a temporary fix. The needs are too deep; they are always lurking underneath no matter what I tell myself or how busy I am or how much I connect with other people.

I don't know about this. As much as I am willing to look into the whole inner child therapy, methinks you are often using it as excuse to show you are not guilty here, it is those children inside... I think to insist on fragmentation of self is not really healthy. Can you think of yourself as wholesome person? Person with some issues which are however your own?

And I remember you posting about how this T is different and how it is helping... so it is kinda sad to see you at the same place where you been before.

I think you need to answer honestly as what would have to happen to you for your pattern to change. What do you really really want from your T? From life? Maybe it is time for a bit of different perspective.

I think there is difference between needs and desires. We need air, water, food and sleep. Then there are desires... and I guess we have to let some of them go, because they just may torture us.

Are your desires realistic? If not, how to tame them down? How to partially and realistically satisfy them, instead of weaving web of dreams?

Well, What if they aren't as deep as you think? How would that change things? What would happiness look like?

IMO these are the kinds of questions you should be thinking about and mulling over.

I mean for heaven's sake Rainbow, the world isn't going to end because your therapist wants to reframe your relationship. You'll still wake up in the morning Rainbow right?

What if you brainstormed with your therapist about ways to realize that these needs *aren't* to deep and can be addressed.

What if you allowed yourself no excuses. What do you think would happen?

I'm not 'tired' of your threads, Rainbow, and I do read them, though sometimes my ability to answer is 'exhausted' - as in I don't know what else to say that is relevant to your situation, because I don't really have any experience of your situation, and I've already posted what I can about it. I always try to answer peoples posts if I feel I contribute or be supportive. This thread, for example, started out with an interesting question - which I answered - but I don't think my answer turned out to be relevant to you, because the question you were asking wasn't really the question you were asking, was it? I've enjoyed reading this thread though, there have been some great responses. You do seem to have quite the knack for posting popular threads, Rainbow, so I think that shows that people aren't tired of them - even if some of us don't always feel there is anything else we can say or contribute on the subject ) - so please dont feel despondent. People care, Rainbow

And I only say these things and ask these questions because these are the tools that have moved me past blindingly painful impasses in my own therapy and life.

When *something* has got to change, then *that* is the time for the *most* growth and potential.

You just have to create a space for something different and move into it.

Creating that space, I think, requires asking a lot of really really hard questions - entertaining thoughts that you would never consider, or be open to things that may be new.

Rainbow, do you see how this pattern plays out not only in therapy (wanting more) but here as well? Maybe this isn't a problem between you and your therapists, maybe this is a problem with the way you view the world, that is played out in therapy.

I've heard that the things we focus on the most are the things that become the biggest in our lives. So, if your main focus is your needs and your therapy, that is going to feel HUGE.

Something my T taught me is just letting thoughts go by without grabbing onto them. He taught it to me to deal with triggers, but I use it for worries I can't do anything about, fears, etc. When the thought pops into my head, I think "there's that thought" and I don't grab onto it...I just picture it floating right by while the next thought comes behind it to take it's place...and the next thought and the next thought. I taught this to my middle son to deal with fears he has at night, and he loves it.

Is it always easy? No. Does it always work? Nope. But it at least gives me some power, some action I can take when the thoughts just keep coming.

I KNOW how hard it is to break out of obsessive thought patterns. I had a conflict with a friend this morning that really threw me for a loop, and I've had a REALLY hard time getting back on track with my day. I've prayed, I've meditated, I've tried to get busy doing other things, and I'm still kind of paralyzed by it. This stuff can be really hard. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. We can do it

I hope you're feeling better, Rainbow

Well, I'll share a story. The whole 'shifting angle of view' helps. I want to be a 'giver' instead of a 'taker'. Now, I know we all need to receive. It's part of the human contract. And it's o.k. to be a 'taker'. But when it becomes the overwhelming focus of one's life, then it harms that life.

What I'm trying (and I'm not sure I can be successful) in regards to T's vacation is to 'give' it to her instead of bemoaning that my desires are not being fulfilled. But, in a way they are. If I have a desire to give, then by giving my T the vacation, I am fulfilling a desire. And as T pointed out to me when I 'gave' her that gift, I was practicing compassion for another human being.

So, an idea might be how can you 'give' to your T?

I have a little more time to respond now. I feel really depressed, though.

VH: I agree. You asked if my desires are realistic. It's not like that. I don't consciously think of wanting to be in my T's life or whatever. I just feel a sense of loss, depression, sadness with really no words. Of course it's not realistic; it just IS.

What you said about fragmentation. In IFS therapy, the parts are important, but having a Self in charge is the goal. My T says I have to build up my Self so it's running the show, not the parts. So you are correct about that.

elliemay: I don't know. I'm happy sometimes, but there is always something wrong. There aren't any guarantees, either. Two of my friends died in the last couple of years, one recently. I'm too overwhelmed with life--and death. I've got goals in RL--studying things, etc. Some are too challenging, like genealogy. I've been productive for aboaut 10 years but now I hit brick walls and I can't stand that. I hate not finding answers. I don't know what you mean--no excuses. Maybe I'm just tired of living. I don't know how to create a space for something different though it sounds like a good plan.

tree: Yes, I always want too much from people and I'm usually if not always disappointed. It plays itself out here; I see that because I feel the same way about my T not responding to my emails when people don't respond the way I want. I don't like that about myself.
I will try not grabbing onto my thoughts--like when I pay attention to my breathing, I'm supposed to let the thoughts come and go like that.

just_some_girl: thank you!

Okay, then. I'm going away, which I interpret to be what you want.

Anne