I had a session at 5 PM today.

I was telling him how much the attachment hurt. How everything hurt. About how much the couch thing affected me. He said he felt bad; like it was his fault for letting something that painful happen so quickly. I told him I didn't see it that way; that it was okay-- that I trusted him so much that day.

He was eluding to the erotic transference stuff. I still can't go there. He definitely know about it because it's all there, right in the poems I handed him. He asked me, "Do you feel like if talk about these feelings, it will drive me away?" Exactly. Then he went on to say that it's okay to have those feelings, and it's ok to express them, no matter what they are.

Then in the middle of everything, I got pissed. I don't know what happened. Everything turned around. In hindsight, I suppose it was because the attachment feelings were so %#@&#! intense at that moment. I practically couldn't look at him. It was getting to be too much. All I was thinking was how much I want to be with T during the week... how attached I am to him, how amazing he is... and here I am, in the room with this person at this very moment... and it all got to be too much, I think. So what do I do? Get angry of course. And I really started giving it to him. He would make a comment, I would mutter "genius." Then he said he was going to talk, but he just started asking questions instead. Then-- (you will love this Sister... and I have to thank you for it because it really did exemplify how I feel at times) I told him... "Sometimes I am really listening to you. And other times, I'm not. Sometimes I really want you to just shut up." And he goes, "Then why don't you tell me to shut up when you want me to?"

And then it happened.

He quoted a line from one of my poems by memory.

It was a line in which I wrote, "You are required to shut up and tell me the reason."

I had written it as an expression of my frustration in regards to when he just asks a lot of obnoxious rhetorical questions, but doesn't tell me anything directly. (Like he was doing today).

He %#@&#! quoted a line from memory that was precisely relevant to the here-and-now situation.

The signifiance of this did not hit him until I left. I was too wrapped up in being angry at him at the time. But when I left, I realized what had happened. He truly blew me away. There is nothing in the world that could show me more, just how engaged he is.

But that's not even all...

So then he says to me, "I would share my experience with you, but you probably want me to shut up." So I go, "Nice. Now you want me to say-- no! please share your experience with me! " (Meanwhile, of course I am dying for him to tell me whatever it is he is going to say) So finally I tell him... ok, ok I'm listening, go ahead.

He tells me, "Ok. The whole time before you got angry, I think there was a really strong connection. Then when you got mad at me, I felt hurt because we lost that."

What?

So I'm sitting there with this %#@&#! look on my face. I don't even know what to say. So I go, "Um. You just disclosed an emotion."

And he says, "I know... I took a chance."

So at this point, I'm basically dying. Completely overwhelmed. I'm sitting there analyzing the situation to pieces. Connection? Was he inferring that he, too, felt connected? Or did he just mean that I was connected and then I %#@&#! it up? Part of me was absolutely melting that we reached the point in therapy in which he finally felt that he could disclose such a thing. Then there was the all-or-nothing part of me that was thinking, "Great. I hurt him. Now we'll never have a connection again. I just ruined the entire relationship" So this was the part I chose to share. I told him, "See? I hurt everyone that I form a connection with." So we talked about that for a bit.

Then he said that he felt like this was a session separate from all others-- he said it felt as though this was the really special session, in which he was able to take a chance and tell me how he felt.

The end of the session had approached. He asked, as always, "So, are you coming back on Friday?" I was still worried, so again, I said, "I feel like maybe everything is ruined." And he goes, "Maybe everything just started... but you'll have to come back Friday to find out."

[Cheri]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
pinksoil said:
He tells me, "Ok. The whole time before you got angry, I think there was a really strong connection. Then when you got mad at me, I felt hurt because we lost that."

What?

So I'm sitting there with this %#@&#! look on my face. I don't even know what to say. So I go, "Um. You just disclosed an emotion."

And he says, "I know... I took a chance."

So at this point, I'm basically dying. Completely overwhelmed. I'm sitting there analyzing the situation to pieces. Connection? Was he inferring that he, too, felt connected? Or did he just mean that I was connected and then I %#@&#! it up? Part of me was absolutely melting that we reached the point in therapy in which he finally felt that he could disclose such a thing. Then there was the all-or-nothing part of me that was thinking, "Great. I hurt him. Now we'll never have a connection again. I just ruined the entire relationship" So this was the part I chose to share. I told him, "See? I hurt everyone that I form a connection with." So we talked about that for a bit.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Or could he have been encouraging you to take a chance and go deeper than your anger? To touch the vulnerability and emotions anger sometimes protects (love, maybe)? Maybe not, but that's what occurred to me when I read your excellent post. Please disregard if it doesn't seem to fit.

[gostryter]

wow - your posts always amaze me!

ya have to go back Friday!! i gotta know what happens next!!

[sunrise]

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pinksoil said:
He quoted a line from one of my poems by memory.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Wow! What a peak moment.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
pinksoil said:
He tells me, "Ok. The whole time before you got angry, I think there was a really strong connection. Then when you got mad at me, I felt hurt because we lost that."

What?

So I'm sitting there with this %#@&#! look on my face. I don't even know what to say. So I go, "Um. You just disclosed an emotion."

And he says, "I know... I took a chance."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Double wow!!! I'm so happy you are getting to the point in therapy where your T can disclose with you. I agree with your T, maybe this is really the beginning. (((hugs))) Great session!

[Lemon]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
pinksoil said:

He %#@&#! quoted a line from memory that was precisely relevant to the here-and-now situation.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Wow! That is amazing! No matter what else happens that is one moment that I bet you'll never forget. I love your T

[okiedokie]

Hi Pink,
I'm posting my reaction, but please know I have negative history when it comes to pdocs. I know you absolutely LOVE your doc...

His reaction and baiting and teasing sort of creeps me out. It does sound as if he was feeling you out, flirting with you. And then teasing you to be sure to come back on Friday to find out what happens next. Insinuating that everything begins after today's "special session."

This is exactly what a pdoc did to me about 5 sessions before he raped me.

You be sure to take good care of yourself, Pink.
Best,
Okie

[lauren_helene]

Pink I am so happy for you!! I am so glad that he trusted you with his emotions.

He is showing you that no matter what you say to him good or bad he is not leaving and you are not ruining anything with him.

I think this is a huge beginning for you. I was just about to post something profound that happened in my session tonight...stay tuned.

OkieDokie-- I am deeply sorry for what happened to you.

I understand that you may pick up on particular cues based on your personal situation. And I also understand and appreciate you looking out for mine.

However, I think it impossible to know or to get a feel for someone else's relationship with their T when you aren't actually in it. We all share similar experiences, but we all have unique relationships with our therapists.

There are other pieces to make a story whole. For example, for him to make a comment about coming back on Friday-- this is something he says to me every week. It has to do with my fear of such a strong attachment, and stating (especially today) that sometimes it would be easier not to come back then to have to continue with all of the intense feelings.

Today was a very special session. It was the first time he ever disclosed anything like that to me. For weeks I have struggled with the one-sided connection. Insisting to him that he couldn't possibly feel anything back. And you are right-- he was feeling me out. He was feeling me out for the right time to disclose such an emotion. I believe it was risky, but calculated. I like that he took that risk. He never has before. Knowing myself (obviously), I can understand why. In the past. Today he demonstrated that the connection goes two ways. I needed to know that, and the timing was right.

We share a lot of humor in our relationship. His sense of humor is similar to mine-- dry, a bit sarcastic, a little bantering.

I have a pretty wild personality. In a good way. I think. Maybe. I can also get very intense. Often. There are very few people in this world that I have met, who can keep up with all that. He is one of them.

He has never been anything but appropriate for last two years. Again, I am so very sorry for what happened to you. Especially as a student therapist, it absolutely disgusts me that anyone in this field could use their power to hurt someone else. However, I do think that you are interpreting what happens between me and my T based on your own experience rather than mine.

He's human.... so now what?

I don't know.

Obviously I cannot think of a single thing besides my session tonight. Why even try?

I have struggled for a while with seeing my T as a blank slate/object-type thingy vs. a real person.

I always figured he was a blank slate. I could throw every single emotion at him-- what would he feel? Nothing. What human could endure that?

I really give the guy a hard time. I mean, I know that analysis is designed to express any emotion towards the therapist.

But today he disclosed that he feels something towards me. Not with me, but towards me. I never doubted his empathy-- I can pick up on it all the time. My point is that I never thought what happened in that here-and-now interaction affected him emotionally in that way. I think that's what I'll start with on Friday.

What a softie. Haha, jk.

[sidony]

Wow what a wild session! So very very cool that he quoted your poetry back to you.... that's just awesome.

I'm so glad you had such an intense session. That's great!!! :-) I love reading your posts.

And just fyi: I had a good individual session today. :-) Not that intense of course, but really good to have after the downer group session last night. I love therapy.

Sidony

[wickedwings]

dang. i've never experienced this in therapy before. i was in therapy for years. when i read the post, it was so unbelievably compelling. i was sitting at the edge from reading this. fascinating as heck. it felt strangely electric. hmmm. so charged with volts of electricity.

[purplemoon]

Pinksoil -

What an intense session. It is just amazing. One day I hope that I can connect with my T like that. You are blessed with an awesome T. I'm so jealous.

Electric... I like that... it was sort of electric...

I am afraid to see him on Friday.

What if he never says anything like that again?

That would make me really, really sad.

I think I should tell him that.

Why do I treat him so badly sometimes? I mean, there we are... with enough of a connection that even he comments about it... and I end up telling him to shut up. Nice.

But he ended the session on a positive, optimistic note. I mean it could have ended like this:

Me: I still feel like I just ruined everything.
Him: You did. Nice work, %#@&amp;#!.

But it didn't. However, I can totally see why he said he "took a chance" by disclosing his feelings like that.

On Friday I want to tell him:

How much that meant to me.
How I felt the connection, too.
About how it was that very "electricity" that made me shut down and get angry... I didn't know how to hold onto that.
What can I do with intense feelings besides push them away?
And that I just wanted it so that it would stop hurting when I left.
That he is the only person who could ever handle every aspect of me.
That I am scared he will never go that route again.

[purplemoon]

Pinksoil -

I know for me when people are nice to me - I get scared. I am waiting for the other shoe to drop, so if I push them away before they can hurt me. I don't want to be hurt anymore, so I sabotage what is good. I remember telling T I couldn't trust so and so - and he showed me that they were safe and trying to reach out to me, but I knew there was more to it - that they were going to hurt me - they were setting me up - wanted something. T asked me to trust them just take it a day at a time. I have a wonderful beautiful friend today because I took that chance and didn't kick them out of my life or lash out at them. This is new to me. People being nice because they are nice. Just a thought. I so would love to engage with my T to the level that you do. But I can't. Maybe one day.

I hope my feelings about this thread don't make you feel defensive in any way. Or defensive of him.

It seems like this is the first really big and obvious (in-your-face) disclosure of your erotic transference. I would have liked to see him take that opportunity to be open, and available, but at the same time - firm up his boundaries for your own emotional safety.

The way I interpret his behavior is the opposite. He chose this time to drop his boundaries. That just seems counterintuitive (aka bass akwards) to me. But of course, it's hard to get inside anyone's head regarding this stuff!!

See, this (the firming up) is what *I* would want my T to do. Certainly doesn't imply it's the best for you and your T!

em

[MissCharlotte]

OMG PINKSOIL!!!

So, here's your award for the session of the week.

Yes, I did love it and wasn't planning to log on tonite because I'm out of town, but couldn't resist once i read your post.

Doesn't shut up feel great to say? Congrats on just telling it like it was!! I think that "in the moment" stuff is so damned powerful and it makes the session incredibly charged. Hence, the anxiety and fluttery tummy and nervousness.

Wow, how did you feel when he said "stay tuned..."

I don't know how you will ever make it to Friday.

Just follow what is in your heart in the moment and you will be safe. It sounds like you're close to some breakthrough work. It is clear that your T really cares for you and is taking your offer of your poetry very seriously indeed. I am glad for you. He also recognized the need to offer his emotional self. The exchange was reciprocal and I know that when that happens for me, it allows me greater security in risk taking.

Good luck on Friday. And rest up till then!!!

Not feeling defensive at all, Emily. Thank you for your reply. I agree that it was definitely a big risk on his part. And I understand why he has never done it before. His disclosure has allowed a whole new mess of intense emotions and transference to come up... but... most importantly, it has allowed me to feel connected. I think therapy is all about taking chances. There aren't a lot of boundaries with my T when it comes to stuff like phone calls (call as many times as I need), session length (sometimes we go a little over an hour), etc. But-- for two years he has never dropped a personal boundary-- no disclosure of emotion, nothing. Blank slate. And he knows that in the past two months or so, I have been in a lot of pain, insisting that he feels nothing. That the connection is one-sided. So given my attachment and transference issues, yes, I think he took quite a chance. But I don't see any harm coming out of it. It was so incredibly significant. I think he recognized that this was a moment when I really needed to see another side of him and to feel something different.

[Caramee]

I don't say much about my T b/c his boundaries have been very loose with me, and someone who doesn't understand the situation could easily find reason to criticize it. I think he has loosened standard therapeutic boundaries to adapt to my needs. If it had been solely a blank slate, one way relationship, I never would have stayed in therapy nor would I have ever opened up. I needed to see his humanness. To that end, he judiciously uses self-disclosure and admits his reactions and emotions to what I am saying/doing so that I get a two way "real" experience. I have such a facade in my real life that therapy is sort of an experiment of how it would be with someone to show my authentic self.

I don't think all the rules apply to every situation, and I am grateful that therapists are willing to take risks to give clients what they need. Some styles work with some and not with others. I think some of my T's attempts to help have possible been harmful at times, but it's all been with good intentions to help reach me and heal an incredible amount of trauma. I never would have lasted with a rock of Gibraltar type, but I can understand why some who have had their personal space or boundaries violated would only be safe with some who stayed "firmly planted in their chairs".

I'm glad there are different styles, schools of thought and different types of therapists for all the different types of people and pain in the world.

OK-- here is my take on it.... and just for some info- I've been told that for a female--
I think very much like a male!

I take the whole thing as your T. meaning that he could show an emotion to you- "hurt", and you responded to it--- as a sign that you are able now, to accept and see others emotions. that it's not all about you anymore-- others can show you emotions and you will be OK.
-- and that him showing an emotion was not an infatuation connection-- but him getting a chance to use some tools in order to go towards his goal-- you healing. (- I see things as -- EVERYONE has a motive-- and then I've figured what his motive is-- and that seems to me from what you've shared-- that his motive is for you to move forward in your ability to handle others emotions)

I see here, a therapist using his knowledge/experience to help his client in getting the goal that he is steering towards......

--- hope I don't sound cold or impersonal-- I probably do though-- that's the way people seem to understand me-- sorry if that's the case-- it's not meant to be hurtful.... (just worry about others getting hurt as things don't evolve the way they imagined they might-- this might be my protective mode kicking in from my own past injuries )

mandy

[sidony]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Caramee said:
I don't say much about my T b/c his boundaries have been very loose with me, and someone who doesn't understand the situation could easily find reason to criticize it. I think he has loosened standard therapeutic boundaries to adapt to my needs. If it had been solely a blank slate, one way relationship, I never would have stayed in therapy nor would I have ever opened up. I needed to see his humanness. To that end, he judiciously uses self-disclosure and admits his reactions and emotions to what I am saying/doing so that I get a two way "real" experience.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hey Caramee,

I might have this all screwed up, but isn't that just a difference between psychoanalysis and psychodynamic psychotherapy? I think the analysis one is where the therapist is a blank slate (Pink, you might want to jump in if I'm messing this up).

My therapist isn't the blank-slate type either. He definitely uses self-disclosure, though also judiciously. And he has also disclosed emotions to me before (once said he was sad when I said I couldn't talk about something that had embarrassed me in one of the sessions). Like you, this is the only type of therapy that would have been helpful to me. I remember being very surprised by the emotional aspect of therapy. Guess I just thought someone would give me advice or something. I really had no idea what I was getting into.

(Pink, sorry for temporarily hijacking your thread!)

Sidony

[Caramee]

Yes, that's my understanding too. I think traditional psychoanalysis has the "blank slate" approach. I'm pretty new here, so I'm not sure if Pink is getting traditional psychoanalysis. For instance, it doesn't seem like she goes 4 or 5 times a week, which I understand to be another part of traditional psychoanalysis, but surely that must be on its way out -- how many people can afford that? But I also gather from her post that she has a psychodynamic relationship with her T with a lot of interchange, humor, etc.

My post was pretty generic and was more a response to the interchange between Emily and Pink. I guess I was just saying that I was happy to hear when T's adapt to the individual need of the client. Some may hold to their training or school of thought, but I was just championing that we all may need different things.

I'm not explaining myself any better, am I?

Anyway, Sidony, I thought I was going to get some detached advice, too! I had no idea I would have an emotional experience or relationship at all. Scary and cool at the same time.

[lauren_helene]

I just need to make a comment. I think we all should remember that each of us are unique individuals and our therapy is unique.

Our therapists have varied experience and different orientations. Some are more ecclectic and therefore, although many of our experiences and feelings are very similar, our therapists adjust their approach based on us the individual. I could never see a therapist that didn't do this for me. In fact, this is probably why I left many of them years ago after one session when they sat there staring at me.

I don't worry about Pink or her therapist because they've been together for a long time and Pink herself is pursuing the field and is adequately educated in the process and the psychology field itself.

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh or rude and we are all entitied to our opinions on anything we read. But I'm wondering how it is helpful to Pink to read some of these posts?

We all have triggers and I won't deny some posts have triggered me. I simply do not read those posts anymore. I'm not sure that I would ever put my feelings on to another poster though. These are my feelings to deal with and so I do.

I have had to do some digging about why some posts trigger me and I think we all should. It is all part of the analyzing process isn't it? or should I just go away and shut up...?

[Caramee]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
almeda24fan said:
I just need to make a comment. I think we all should remember that each of us are unique individuals and our therapy is unique.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I agree!

I apologize if my posts were among the ones that seemed unsupportive of Pinksoil and that triggered you. My intent was completely the opposite, but intentions aren't worth anything if they don't come across.

It seemed that it was very helpful for Pink that he took a risk and disclosed an emotion which strayed from his previous way of interacting as I understood it. It seemed to mean a lot to her, and I wanted to support that when she was questioned about it. Instead of stating that example directly, I used myself and my therapy as an example and spoke broadly about therapy which could have been misinterpreted now that I go back and reread it. I guess I didn't want to offend anyone, but that is one of my age-old problems -- when I try to be Switzerland and please everyone, I end up confusing everyone and being hurtful.

And then there is one of my other age-old problems of paranoia and since you were not replying directly to me, I may be responding when I shouldn't!!

In any event, you gave me a lot to think about, and since my goal is to be helpful and supportive, I need to think more carefully about what I have written before I hit "Ok, submit."

Pinksoil, I apologize if my posts were hurtful to you, especially at such a trying time.

Well, I don't see any posts here that aren't supportive of pink. Some, myself included, have posted in the way we have because we care. I think we have all had her close at heart when responding.... and I also think if what has been said feels like a slight to her-- I think it's her job to let the poster know-- by either posting or PMing that person.

I posted in the protective way that I did because I had a friend that had similar(not EXACTLY-- but similar) experiences with her T.-- I'll skip all the awful stuff that happened and just say, in the end she was in ICU for 4 days due to trying to committ suicide-- I know this is a "jump" in my thinking-- I do tend to do that-- I just want everyone in therapy to be safe and I get worried.

I hope that you- pink, will see all the posts for what was intended and that is-- to support.

If mine was out of line, I apologize and I will cease to post to you anymore if that would help.

I wish you well on your journey in healing.

mandy-- I'm out of here.....

[lauren_helene]

I didn't mean to offend either of you or anyone here. I'm sorry if it came across that way

I wasn't speaking for Pink by the way. Just from my head. I could explain more but don't want to dig myself in any deeper.