my T has a gift. Just when i start feeling like we have made some progress in me trusting him... he goes away. One of the reasons i personally think he is such a good T, meaning he seems laid back, relaxed and generally happy, is that he does take time for himself regularly. i honestly think that is good. He gets refreshed, doesn't get too bogged down and has so much more to give when he is there.

but

it also means that i have to cope in between. since switching to 2xweek i have found it harder. It feels like he is gone longer.

this absence just happens to coincide with another... not preplanned. It means i see him once next week. So in three weeks i see him once. i'm not sure i should keep that appt.

i don't know if seeing him will give me a boost or break that fragile self-help bubble i have. i have been trying not to think about missing him. we can hardly do anything difficult during that session...

very lonely. very sad.

the docs can't agree on what's wrong with me. fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, hormones... blah blah blah. i just feel like crap a lot. i walk around with this overwhelming desire to just sleep for a bit. i never ever used to be able to take a nap... now i can sleep anywhere at anytime. i am always tired.

depressed and tired and sad and lonely

[Mouse_]

Gerber, YOu mean he plans to go away once you feel connected to him? Or it appears that way? I know T once told me that it seems I allow myself to connect with her more just as a break is coming up, almost like its a safe time to get close because I won't be able to get too close?

[Perna]

Gerber, how hard it must be to feel physically crummy and also have to try to do T. My medical doctor figured out I had low thyroid and that helped some of my tiredness during the day I think. I hope you get some sort of help (and that the time passes quickly that your T is away). That would feel frustrating to me too to feel I was getting somewhere and then have T go away (again).

that's an interesting point mouse... i never thought of that. It could very well be as i am very difficult to get close to. This time though it was spontaneous... the closeness i mean. i was really pulling back b/c i knew he was leaving. i'm not sure what happened to start things going but the session went so very well last time.

thyroid... don't even get me started. i no longer have one of those. That's a whole other story.

thanx for caring guys

Sometimes... I'll only allow myself to feel connected when I know he is going away soon. It is like I can let him in because I know there is an out. Then, when his leaving approaches, I really withdraw back from him (by feeling numb) or I really shove him away (by feeling frustrated / angry / misunderstood).

Push-pull...

It is hard. Fears of being alone and longing for closeness on the one hand... Fears of being engulfed and longing to get away on the other. Damned if you do and damned if you don't - at least thats how I feel sometimes.

Hang in there. I think therapy is something like a dance where there are moments of real closeness and then one or the other or both parties whirl off to dance by themself for a bit before being reunited. together and apart and together and apart over and over and over. and i guess the idea is that ultimately... we will be able to better tolerate the together and... better tolerate the apart too.

[ECHOES]

Or, maybe the pull to feel connected right before they go away is a part of magical thinking... that we can stop them from going. We don't want them to go, so we pull them closer to us; "Don't leave me!"

Anyway, I think that is how it is for me.

i really think you guys are on to something with this. i had never really thought of it. Going away he really had no hope of being able to make the connection more solid. By the time he gets back, i've already cut the ties. i have to. Don't know how to survive alone and keep connections. i pull in and protect myself. Can't leave a raw place open. Connection doesn't stay, it gets ripped off, leaving a hole..

i don't want to dance.. i'm afraid of dancing like that. i want to be held but i can't allow it. But that's the point in the end. Whatever pushes you into therapy, that is the ultimate end.

[ECHOES]

gerber, what could be wrong with wanting that? wanting to be held, loved? it is the most natural thing to want.

my T tells me that I will learn how to get that need/want met in healthy and fulfilling ways. I'm counting on her knowing what she's talking about. I trust her. I trust that she cares about me enough to help me do this. And then, I assume when this happens, the strong longing, wanting, and hurting will subside.

I hope I hope.

well... i have some basic problems... and one of them being the core belief of defect and being unlovable. i don't trust my T, not yet anyway. i trust him some, but nowhere near what could be needed for such beliefs to develop. i don't trust anyone.. not another living soul (dogs not included, i trust them). It has hit me hard just how bad my trust issues are... i didn't know. and that's because i really didn't think about what trust really is... the way i was defining it was pretty rigid and specific... turns out it's more than that and i suck at the lot of it.

being held... can't even think about that. no one even touches me, even in passing, except for the chiro. being held is beyond my dreams...

i have spent my life learning to protect myself from wanting love that no one would give me.

Think of professional dancers... I'm thinking... Not sure what kind of dancing style... But the partnered dancing they do on 'So You Think You Can Dance?' When the partners and in synch sometimes one partner kind of stays while the other one goes off by themself to take a bit of a solo. Then they reunite and then the other partner kind of stays while the other takes a bit of a solo. And sometimes they both twirl away from each other. But there is just as much pleasure and joy in the seperations as there is in the reunions. It is like they are complimentary. And it is okay to leave and it is okay to be left and it is okay to be together too.

When all goes well.

Only it doesn't work very much like that for me. I want to curl up round his leg so he can't move away from me. He's not allowed to go, hes not. Trouble is that clinging to him means that we can't be dancing, however. And dancing can be a thing of great pleasure and joy and aesthetic beauty. The dance of the conversation. The dance of the postures. The dance of the appointment times...

It hurts. I get that. Sometimes I want to cling. Sometimes I want to be held. I don't want to be a dancer. I'm not capable. It hurts to much. I just want to be held.

But when I'm being held I panic. They will drop me or throw me or hurt me. And I panic and need them to back off. Or else I start to have fears that I'm merging into them and I'll disappear. They are too close. I'm not me anymore I'm merging into them. And I need to assert myself. Move away for a bit of a solo. Figure out MY thoughts and MY feelings and MY desires for a while. Interact with other people too.

Can be hard.

I know what you mean about the hole. I don't have object constancy either. When he goes away he may as well be dead as far as I'm concerned. Don't really think that he will come back... Don't really think that he will... He is dead to me. 'Cause the hole hurts too much, yeah. I think it is supposed to... Get better with time.

you sum it up very well alex... and your analogy of the dance is a good one i think. But i am not able to dance either. He twirls away and i just stand there.. maybe fall to the floor... generally walk off stage and pretend i never had a dance partner to start with.

i can't allow him to care without allowing myself to care... and i can't do that in a complete way. Too risky, too hard, no skills. Can't dance without holding out my hand, or allowing him close.

object constancy... you mean as in me not being able to see him as a seperate entity, an individual in his own right? If that is what you mean then i am not sure how you are seeing that in this... maybe because it hurts when he leaves? Is that part of that?

what i feel, and i know little of formal theory, is that i see him as an individual, seperate... but too much so. To form a relationship of trust would mean allowing contact, a break in that sphere of individual identity... i am me within my walls and he within his, seperate. Closeness would mean a bridge or a door of some sort.

it hurts when he leaves, but rather than wanting to cling and prevent him from leaving, i am more inclined to build my walls thicker to prevent me from giving a rat's *** whether he leaves.
it's still childish... sort of like "fine, be that way, don't need you anyhow."

but it does hurt... because i work hard to change and so i work hard to remove bricks in the wall as he suggests and guides me to do... but i have no skills to deal with that afterwards.. it's just an open hole in the wall.

i already know it will take a month or more of 2xweek appts for him to get near where we had been. i know it but can't seem to help it. i never knew how bad my trust issues were before i started working with him. Now i know but don't know how to not do it.

dead to you... hmmm... yeah, something like that. He just becomes one of the other billions of people on the planet. i miss him, but i can't remember what he looks like.

[MissCharlotte]

((gerber))

Aww I am so sorry you are struggling with missing T. I know the separation is awful and I am sure that come december when T takes a holiday break I will be here crying the blues again.

It is so difficult. The things that helped me when T was away are journaling, posting here, posting here, posting here (LOL). Keeping busy as much as possible, walking and using my relaxation tapes.

I hope you keep your appointment. One visit is better than none!

Be good to yourself.

> i am not able to dance either. He twirls away and i just stand there.. maybe fall to the floor... generally walk off stage and pretend i never had a dance partner to start with.

Maybe... Or maybe sometimes when he goes you do the solo thing for a while quite well indeed but the trouble can be when he comes back...

> object constancy... you mean as in me not being able to see him as a seperate entity, an individual in his own right?

As still existing and caring even though he isn't by your side right now (e.g., when he takes time off).

> To form a relationship of trust would mean allowing contact, a break in that sphere of individual identity... i am me within my walls and he within his, seperate. Closeness would mean a bridge or a door of some sort.

And you are afraid that if you let him in for a time that you will lose your identity (be merged into him) or he will pull away and you will fragment / fly apart when he goes?

> "fine, be that way, don't need you anyhow."

I'm doing that at the moment. Sometimes it is what we need to do in order to cope.

> i work hard to remove bricks in the wall as he suggests and guides me to do... but i have no skills to deal with that afterwards.. it's just an open hole in the wall.

Yeah, I hear you.

> i already know it will take a month or more of 2xweek appts for him to get near where we had been. i know it but can't seem to help it. i never knew how bad my trust issues were before i started working with him. Now i know but don't know how to not do it.

Time... The great healer. I think it just takes time. Together and apart and together and apart over and over and over again. Hurts either way, sometimes. Hard when they want to be close, hard when we can't be close to them. Each move can be painful to start with... Over time we become more adaptable and limber though... Hang in there.

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And you are afraid that if you let him in for a time that you will lose your identity (be merged into him) or he will pull away and you will fragment / fly apart when he goes?

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i'm not sure... i don't think i've really thought too hard about what might happen because i can't imagine it happening. i can't imagine him getting in. i think i worry my identity would unravel.. not so much fly apart but i define myself within these walls.. imagine going home to find a policeman telling you that it was really someone else's house and you need to stop bothering them. Reality would unravel. The world as you see it and know it would prove to have a big hole in the logic... everything would drain out that hole.

if he came in.. if he got really close... then my definition of myself and the world would be faulty. What then?

yeah. it hurts. Thanks for caring alex

[chaotic13]

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i think i worry my identity would unravel..

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I have this fear too, you are not alone. I am very fearful that if I lower my defenses then I will be a complete mess. I do not want to be one of those people who totally breakdown at the smallest challenge.

It also sounds like you are afraid to let him in and start to care about him and the relationship that could develop. You might find out that you need people after all. I have this fear also although I won't admit it anywhere else but here.

that's exactly right. i can be compared to a cup of water.. a cup with extremely thick walls... if there is a hole, or a crack in those walls, then what i call "me" will drain away.

caring about him is not an option. i am afraid of him getting to know me too well. Know my weaknesses. i don't worry that he will think i am somehow disgusting... i am just afraid of him really knowing me. My walls are all i have. My camoflauge is all i am.

[chaotic13]

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My camoflauge is all i am.

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What happens when our camouflage that we hold so dear is makes us stand out like a hunter in orange? I feel like this is the case in therapy. The harder I work to hide the more apparent my faults become to others. In the end I may not be fooling anyone but myself.

I'm afraid of finding out that the person behind all of the defenses is weak and frail. I think for me I am not only afraid of letting others get to know the real me; but I also am afraid of ME getting to know the real me. I think my defenses have created some personal illusions that I am fearful of expelling. In the end I might find out that I like the fake me better, then.... it is too late.

OK, so we are afraid and in many ways paralyzed by our fear. Do were curl up in a corner and rot away or do we attempt to take some small steps to face reality?

One thing is crystal clear to me at this point: I cannot tolerate staying in the status quo. Being closed off, defensive, and disconnected from everyone and everything is not only hurting me but it is damaging others (my kids in particular). I crashed hard in June and the fear of going back to that state along with the fear of seeing my children adversely affected by my slow but eminent self-destruction is starting to trump the fear of the unknown. I need to change, I don’t know if I can do it or not, but I need to at least try. –Can you tell I am trying to pump myself of for a therapy session tomorrow

omg... i think i'm you.. or you're me... except for the kids part.

i already know that the real me in here is weak.. well, sort of. i haven't talked about it here much, but i feel divided into 2.. bold-me and quiet-me. Both me, no lost time or anything like that. No DID. Just two very, very distinct states of being. So, it's hard to say how "weak" i actually am.. i know i am not strong, but where strengths are or are not is not clear. One goal for me is better cohesiveness (don't know if integration is the right word in this case).

i am afraid i like the fake me better... or rather, the fake me is better suited to the world and functions better. When is the point of no-return? When in therapy is it too late to turn back?

the patterns which don't function so well though.. they have created some bad things in my life... placed me in harm's way. i have created and recreated difficult, painful and sometimes dangerous circumstances around me. i won't ever stop unless i can unravel how i am doing it. i already know *why.*

the thing is... i have spent years examining myself in great detail.. and doing my best to be blunt honest with myself... i read, i wrote and i questioned myself. i understand an awful lot about myself that initial stages of therapy usually brings out. i know in advance some of the steepness of the hill i have to climb. i know what pain i am facing. i also have a decreased optimism in my ability to change... afterall, i have thought hard on this stuff for a long time. i just don't know what my T could do to affect me. (no, i don't expect him to fix me)

like you though.. i feel i have to try. or so i had been feeling. i have been struggling lately to hang onto that feeling.

and, like you, i am trying to work up for a session tomorrow.

[chaotic13]

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i have thought hard on this stuff for a long time. i just don't know what my T could do to affect me. (no, i don't expect him to fix me)

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Ditto for me. Maybe not really that long but definitely hard. (Length is still measured in waking hours for me at this point.)

I don't think I really expect my T to fix me. I think I want (need) is a new perspective. I think my defensiveness has skewed my ability to interpret and analyze my situation logically and to see all of the options available to me. I think it has made me see the world dichotomously or in a only right or wrong way. For example I am unhappy with my marriage, so the only logical choice for me is to discontinue it. Simple solutions seem to evade me at the moment.

In my first T session my therapist, after hearing me describe one of my problems, said...'sounds like you and your husband need to talk about what is acceptable discipline.' I left that session furious! "What the *&^%, I spent $150 to be told that I need to talk to my husband--No %#@&#!!" The next day when I settled down I attempted unsuccessfully to talk to my husband about discipline. It was a complete disaster, things blew up quickly and we ended up in shouting match. However, we did succeed in communicating with each other that we were not on the same page and that it was a major problem for BOTH of us.

I 'm feeling very closed minded at this point. However, some of the assumptions that I have held in my very core have been challenged and have been called into question recently. This has caused ....a great disturbance in the force so to speak.

The catch-22 I'm in is how do I get this fresh perspective if I don't admit the problems and don't disclose the details?