alone and afraid

All she did Tuesday was ask did she remind me of my mother.

(yes) NO! I said.

I have been frantic and crying since. (Once I get going crying it very hard to stop)

I want them to be separate. I can't bear that she did even in the slightest way make me think of my mother!! I don't want them connected even though I want her to 'mother' me. So confusing! I know they are separate but that is my thought and I can't seem to get beyond it to anything more.

Wednesday, I made it through work by lots of ladies room breaks and avoiding everyone as much as possible. But at home I crumbled. Tried to resolve it with my relaxation CD but couldn't focus even with some Xanax. Took more, called her.

Almost missed her call back. I told her what triggered it this time. She talked to me for just a moment, but it grounded me just her saying that it was confusing for me. She asked if I could wait til Tuesday to meet again. (no) Yes, I said (I have no money for an extra session). She said call her again if I need her.

Some people talk about giving something to their T to 'hold onto' for them. That's what this felt like. I had to tell her what I was feeling and what triggered it because if I was feeling better by Tuesday I might not have talked about it. So I felt relieved eventually then guilty for feeling relieved as if I am dependent on her for relief instead of being able to relieve and comfort myself.

Now I'm back to crumbling.

It is so hard to find words for this stuff sometimes.

Or else I'm not allowing the words to come.

I don't know but I feel awful. Alone and afraid. Alone alone alone. Afraid she will see me as not sturdy enough to do this work. How to be vulnerable, open, let the feelings come, but not fall completely apart and not lose her?!!

Reminding you of someone you know/love/had problems with is a good thing! Not the same as her acting/responding like your mother. The reminding is your perception and may or may not say/do what you mother would/would not say/do.

The only way you can get a clear view of your mother separate from you is to have a "third person" (your T) in there so you can "see" better what your mother said/did with you. Your T is a stand-in, sometimes for you and sometimes for your perception of others. What is neat is the two people with the third "mirror" resolve into three people for you and you get the trick of having an inside mirror to bounce things off of.

Wanting mothering is not a bad thing, everyone does, including therapists. But we want it more if we didn't have it very good when we were younger. But that gets resolved to as our therapist helps us and we gain that inside self to help us instead of the therapist. The wanting her/not wanting her won't stay like that so don't "panic" with the feeling of it. It's just part of the process. Think of therapy as a carnival "fun house" :-) with all the warped mirrors and scary "things" jumping out, the darkness, etc. It's not "real" until the end when you come out the other side.

{{{Echoes}}}

I think maybe you're re experiencing early intense and scary feelings of aloneness which have been triggered by the confusion re your T and parent and the ambivalence that causes (I've been there myself so maybe I'm projecting) You are strong enough to do the work, I have faith in you!

ECHOES. I am sorry that you are struggling at this time. It is very hard to express that you need nurturing from a therapist, Nurturing is different from mothering, nurturing is much more valuable in the process of recovery because it engages trust and boundaries, and trust that is constant and consistent, which is of most importance to someone with emotional issues caused by parents that were less than supportive in a young life. Just take things one day at a time and try to stay safe and get the help you need when you need it from your therapist, that is the most important benefit from your therapeutic relationship. Take care and good day Echoes. I hope things get better for you soon. Soidhonia.

(((Echoes)))

Can we cry together? I'm really low right now myself.

I think that sometimes we need to fall apart and then with T's help, put ourselves back together....only with all the pieces this time? It's okay to rely and depend on T. I think it's the only way to have this experience. You will be able to self soothe once again (or so I am told). You were able to go to work (even though you cried in the bathroom). And that's a good thing.I have been experiencing similar moods. During my drive to work my eyes are literally leaking. Then I turn it off until I get back in the car for the drive home.

I'm glad you were able to connect with T. Nah, I don't think she'll find you unsturdy...and with her you are not alone!

((Echoes))

Hi ECHOES, how are you doing today?

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Afraid she will see me as not sturdy enough to do this work. How to be vulnerable, open, let the feelings come, but not fall completely apart and not lose her?!!

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Has she ever said she would not work with you if you were too wobbly? I wonder where this fear comes from. Can you discuss with her? Maybe this is not a worry at all. Are you afraid of falling apart just because you are afraid of losing her? Or for other reasons too?

Thank you Perna,

I don't know how to want 'mothering' or nuturing or whatever in an adult way. It feels so childish to me and that makes me feel ashamed.

I understand what you mean about the third person / third ear in therapy. I think I don't want to see some things better. I think I'm afraid if I come to understand my mother and all that goes with that, I will be expected to accept her/it and somehow that seems as if it will invalidate me. I don't know if that makes sense but it's the best way I can put it.

lol at your funhouse mirrors analogy. Yeah, that's what it feels like sometimes.. sudden and out of focus and scary and as if it does just 'jump out' from somewhere.

(( fuzzy ))

Thank you for having faith in me.

Yes you make very good points. The aloneness is intense just like it used to be. Nowhere to turn. If T is like her then ... it feels like I have no one again. I rejected my mother. I don't want to do that with my T.

..wondering out loud..So if T reminds me of her then how will that work? How will I be close to her? How will I let myself need her?

I don't know how I could express to T that I want nurturing from her. I don't know how I would say what that would mean. It feels like such an infantile need or want.

Its hard. I think I'd rather go through child birth again then have to keep talking about these needs.

((( sister )))

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Can we cry together? I'm really low right now myself.

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Your drive to work is familiar to me. C'mon over. I have kleenex. And chocolate.

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I think that sometimes we need to fall apart

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It's so interesting that you said this. I have talked about this with the person I correspond with who told me about Pema Chodron's books. She once told me that Yes, sometimes it is necessary/helpful/useful to let the falling apart happen. Yesterday at the end of the day I was feeling a little better. It occurred to me that in the last several years I have sucessfully fallen apart.

Almost. I think successfully falling apart includes a letting go and I'm not there yet.

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Nah, I don't think she'll find you unsturdy...and with her you are not alone!

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Thank you, sister. I hope so.

I hope you're feeling better today.

(( Mouse ))

lol. Childbirth seems like a breeze by comparison! Funny though, it is kind of a childbirth process, isn't it?

"Don't need me" was the overwhelming message growing up. I know that's why I can't say what I need. Most of the time I can't even admit it to myself or find words for it. I seem to be stuck on the 'mothering' / nuruturing need.

Hi sunny. I'm feeling better today, thanks for asking.

I think the fear comes from several places. One is the initial meeting with her where she stated she likes to meet with someone several times to see if she feels it would be a good fit and they could work well together. (So she thought it was a good fit because we are working together and also because I came right out and asked her after several sessions). Another is that I read on sites and in books that a good candidate for analysis is someone who is basically sturdy (independent, employed, social, etc). I have said several times that I'm afraid she'll tell me to go away or to see someone else. I just said it again last session; she of course turned it around and asked if I'd had thoughts of seeing someone else! No!! Even her asking that scared me. (I guess I should tell her that it scared me. idk)

Supportive therapy versus explorative. Do they have to be separate? I initially told her I was there for depression and anxiety and that I was curious about how the mind works and exploring that. I wanted to do this because years of meds didn't help and so I went off them to see what I was like. I realized my moods are primarily reactionary and fluctuate by the hour, the moment.. even though they can last days too. .....So.... now that I'm finding I want supportive therapy, is that too much or is it something different than the course we set out on and will it make her not want to work with me. Or was I confused about supportive/explorative and they are not exclusive but are both part of the process?

It comes too from feeling like I am too much. Too needy. A bother. "Don't need me" and "Grow UP!!" are what I heard so often growing up. I know that was then and this is now...but knowing doesn't always help.

If I fall apart in there... she will 'see' me. If she sees me she'll be disgusted, repulsed. She could reject me, leave me.

She keeps telling me to trust the process, to stay with it, that I'm doing just fine, and I'm right where I need to be. When I'm there I can believe it; when I'm not there.. it's gone and then it digresses to where I am now.

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ECHOES said:
Supportive therapy versus explorative. Do they have to be separate? .... So.... now that I'm finding I want supportive therapy, is that too much or is it something different than the course we set out on and will it make her not want to work with me. Or was I confused about supportive/explorative and they are not exclusive but are both part of the process?

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My T combines exporatory therapy with supportive therapy, so it is possible. We go very deep, but sometimes I just need his support, and he can give it. He is very flexible that way. It may be that some therapists prefer to do only one or the other at a time with a client. I don't know. I guess you would have to ask your T and see if she can accommodate. I know that asking that question can be scary too. (((hugs)))

In what way would you like your T to support you that she isn't currently doing? It might help her a lot to help you if you know the answer to that question. My T has said several times that I need to tell him what I need from him. He can't always just intuitively know. That is so hard for me to tell him my needs, but I'm getting better at it.

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If I fall apart in there... she will 'see' me. If she sees me she'll be disgusted, repulsed. She could reject me, leave me.

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((((hugs)))) I always thought that Ts liked it when their clients fell apart, showed emotion, etc. It shows they are getting somewhere, doing hard work together, reaching the core, getting past the person's defenses, etc. I think it is harder for Ts to work with someone who won't show any emotion or delve beneath the surface. So maybe your T would actually be thrilled and consider it progress if you "fell apart" with her.

ECHOES, I hope you can talk about these very important issues with your T and get some reassurance. It is so important to feel secure.

Hi Echoes,

Glad you are feeling better. I am too. (a little anyway)

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Supportive therapy versus explorative. Do they have to be separate?

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I don't think so. My therapy is a combo. I can't imagine one without the other. I mean how could you separate them really? What would T do--analyze us and leave us hanging?

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When I'm there I can believe it; when I'm not there.

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Echoes, I have only recently been able to hang on to the feelings outside of session and even then it's hit and miss. (I can sometimes but not always....)
I bet it will come, just keep working it. You have too much "skin" in now, too much invested.

Hey. It is a little controversial... But I guess I think that 'supportive' and 'exploratory' are on a continuum. Stuff happens in our life outside therapy. Sometimes we are in a fairly good place and we have the internal strength to do some exploratory work. Othertimes things are harder and we need some support so we can keep on functioning doing the things that we need to do. I think that where we are at changes over time and ideally therapy changes with us as we need it to so that it can be more or less supportive and more or less exploratory.

I guess I was doing some good exploratory work with my therapist but then deadlines got closer. Recently, I've been struggling just to do what it is that I need to do. So now we are doing more of a supportive thing. Sometimes he makes some practical suggestions and sometimes he just is supportive and nurturing and it helps me feel like I have a bit more inner strength to be doing what it is that I need to do.

I'm ashamed of the little kid feelings too :-( Because I've disowned them for so long they are still in a little kid form. They haven't had the chance to evolve and develop into an adult form. Sometimes I feel... Like I am a little infant and I just wish that t could cuddle me and coo at me and do soothing stuff like that. I just want to cry and curl up in a little ball and have someone wrap themself around me and stroke my hair and soothe me. And... I'm embarrassed and ashamed that I feel that way to be sure :-( But... Feel that way, I do.

First, I get you a lot of credit for fighting through this and being able to get through work.

So you want her to be *a* mother but not *your* mother.... That is understandable. A lot of times the whole point of looking for that person to nurture us because we didn't get it when we were little-- so why would we want that person to be fused with the original object?

In time you will be able to be open and let the feelings out as much as you want.... you will not lose her. You have already done an amazing job of that-- you shared your little girl fantasy with her... she didn't go anywhere; she is still here.

I hope you are feeling better today.

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Because I've disowned them for so long they are still in a little kid form. They haven't had the chance to evolve and develop into an adult form.

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Thank you alex, I really like this thought that they will evolve and develop. I guess that I need to acknowledge them for that to happen.

I think part of the supportive v. explorative is my perception in that I see the supportive as not something I should want or expect, as if it's something outside of 'real' therapy (explorative therapy).

Shame runs so so deep. I keep saying I want to leave it outside the door when I go in. Wishful thinking I suppose.

Thanks, pink. I have missed work before and really really try not to miss any now, even if I go and am a waste. Single, one paycheck from disaster.

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So you want her to be *a* mother but not *your* mother

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Yes!! That is exactly it, though I don't know how to have that either, to take it in, as much as I do want it.

I am feeling better today. Thanks

Yeah, I think the notion is that they will evolve and develop as we acknowledge them and allow ourself to feel them and start to accept them instead of pushing them away / fighting them :-) Progress can seem slow at times, but then by the same token, sometimes I don't think we often reflect on and appreciate just how far we have come :-)

I have these worries about exploratory being somehow superior to supportive, as well. This worry that if we are doing supportive stuff then it is a kind of 'maintenence' going from problem to problem to problem getting through... Not really making substantive changes or making any real progress. I think that some therapists have this conception, too. In a way, the polar opposite of the 'exploratory is best' view (of SOME analysts) is the 'changing your action is EVERYTHING' view (of SOME behaviour / cognitive-behaviour therapists). I expect... The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I've seen a lot written in recent years about how there is a continuum between 'supportive' and 'exploratory' and about how often it can be super-hard to characterise / describe what is going on. For example... Sometimes it might seem (to a therapist and to a client) that they are doing supportive stuff, really. But then some insight comes out of it. So... Seems that it is exploratory, after all. And sometimes it can seem like exploratory work is being done where the person is talking about the past and trying to emotionally relate to it. Achieving important insights. And yet the insights don't seem to result in any behavioural change. One might wonder if that is 'supportive' therapy disguised as exploratory, really.

One notion is that the 'supportive' / 'exploratory' distinction is about as useful as the 'neurotic' / 'psychotic' distinction - which turned out to not be so useful really. There are many aspects to neurosis, and many aspects to supportive, and it can be hard to characterise the distinction...

One idea is that... Supportive is non-confrontational whereas exploratory involves the therapist confronting the client with their behaviour. This has led some theorists to characterize 'self-psychology' as supportive rather than exploratory analysis - even when it is 5 times a week, free association and couch work. Confrontations... Tend to alienate the person. Support... Tends to give clients the strength to come to important insights.

I think it is a paradoxical thing. Like how (when meditating) if you try and think of nothing then things will keep on distracting you. If you think of one thing and focus all your attention on that one thing then that one thing becomes all emcompassing so as to be... Nothing, however. Like how if you seek happiness directly it will elude you. If you stop seeking and just be in the present then there it is. If you seek insights then maybe the best way to get those is to enjoy some support and care. Other peoples support and care of you and your increasing ability to support and care for yourself...

Perhaps.

> Shame runs so so deep. I keep saying I want to leave it outside the door when I go in. Wishful thinking I suppose.

Shame is the hardest thing for me too. Though.. I have been looking at anger a little bit too.

My therapy has moved focus now to acceptance. My acceptance of myself... Supportive... But deep... I thought I was basically accepting of myself (that I'd grown considerably there) and I have grown considerably. But... I still have a long way to go. There is no way that I can achieve insights of things when I can't accept them (without being mortified by them) when they occur to me...

Life can be hard sometimes...