[ElectricManatee]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

You seem stuck too and it's sad. I hate to see people feeling stuck in patterns in therapy. I'd also encourage you to try some small changes. If one of your ways to seeking reassurance is emailing often, go one week without, if you constantly apologize in session or ask T if they care, go one week without. When you see that T is still there, still cares and nothing has changed, it can help, It's no doubt hard and scary but it's a good way to slowly try to pull yourself out of the same patterns. That is merely my point, not that there HAS to be a time frame, heck I still have some trust issues with my T, mostly due to our rupture, but I've have to learn to let go and just let things be sometimes. See that he is still there and still cares etc. Otherwise it will just be me feeling stuck long term.

You give this advice A LOT, and I don't know that it's always helpful or applicable. People have different needs, and every therapy relationship is different, with different feelings and preferences on both sides. Sometimes it's fine to need help or reassurance and to reach out to safe people. In those cases, setting up arbitrary goals around reducing the number of times per week or month that a person asks their therapist for help would be really counterproductive.

I also want to push back against the idea that there is a timeline for learning to trust or feeling more secure and that anybody who can't get there fast enough is "stuck." Growth happens at different rates based on all kinds of things, and often people will circle back to earlier states of uncertainty as they go deeper in their therapy work and open themselves up to new states of vulnerability.

You have mentioned that what happens between you and your T is more friend-like than anything. Those of us who have therapy relationships with different, more therapeutic boundaries might be having completely different experiences, which I would hope you could keep in mind. I'm glad what you're doing with your T works for you, but it doesn't mean that it would work for everybody.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

Thanks. I did read that post before and followed the stone story. I don't see in that post mentioned that "he compared LT to a stalker sifting through someone's trash" and read "he also compared it to a fan going onto Bruce Willis' property and taking something from his trash and treasuring it because it belonged to him" - to me these statements don't have the same meaning. But if you guys discuss more privately and there is more revealed that way, my perceptions may be off as I only see the public posts. In any case, I personally like to follow your posts about this therapy mostly because they are so well-written and (as mentioned before several times) the T's style seems like something/someone I would find myself compatible with. He never strikes me as someone lacking reflection, more just sometimes clueless about certain things LT brings to therapy but to me it seems like he in interested in and willing to learn. The content of the stories is also often intriguing because so different from what I experienced in therapy, including my feelings and how I used it - this is where I relate to the T actually. Some people on this forum said before that he is too cognitive in style for working with LT's attachment stuff, which may be true. Of course one can say a therapist should have broader knowledge and experience with clients, which may also be true, but I guess it also depends what sort of modality they are working from primarily and what kind of clientele they have had. At least he does not sound like he makes fake/superficial claims to understand very well something that he does not, which many Ts do, IMO. Another reason I feel drawn to the discussions about this T is because, in some ways, I feel he triggers.frustrates people in some similar ways I sometimes do myself and am curious what exactly it is about.

Thanks for your comments. I am surprised at times how polarizing my T can be on here. And I've told him about that, and he's seemed rather bemused by it. I have appreciated the fact that he's been fairly upfront about his knowledge level in certain areas--he's said multiple times that he's not psychodynamically trained (as opposed to ex-MC, who is) and isn't all that experienced in working with transference. Should I maybe have gone elsewhere right from the beginning? Maybe. But I also felt I wanted and needed a different sort of T than ex-MC and from ex-T (though she isn't psychodynamic). I mean, I was with ex-T 6 years and feel I didn't make all that much progress with her. And I felt stuck in my transference for ex-MC (the main reason I tried a different T to begin with).

Current T has also said that he's caring, but not "warm and fuzzy" and "squishy" like ex-MC is (they know each other). But I feel in some ways that's also kind of what I need. Maybe not what I *want* but what I *need.* I need someone who *isn't* going to encourage the transference. Do I have some transference for current T anyway? Sure. And I certainly have attachment to him. But it's different. In part because it's not paternal, which I think is the part that really affected me with ex-MC. (Well, that and the fact that I was kind of in love with him at one point...)

But anyway, I'll address some of that more in a separate post. Basically, I knew that *something* needed to change. I needed a different style. This T pushes and challenges me quite a bit, and I feel I've made lots of progress because of that. I can see why his style would be off-putting to many people, and at times, it is for me. But I also find his "feedback" (as he calls it) to be really helpful at times. Does it hurt sometimes? Yeah. But it's also forced me to look at parts of myself and how I relate to others in a new way. And I think that's really helped me with my outside relationships, including with my H. For one, I'm less scared to deal with the difficult stuff. And I'm thinking more about how I'm affecting people--H, friends, family, my D. I still have a ways to go, of course, but I feel this T can help me get there.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

You give this advice A LOT, and I don't know that it's always helpful or applicable. People have different needs, and every therapy relationship is different, with different feelings and preferences on both sides. Sometimes it's fine to need help or reassurance and to reach out to safe people. In those cases, setting up arbitrary goals around reducing the number of times per week or month that a person asks their therapist for help would be really counterproductive.

I also want to push back against the idea that there is a timeline for learning to trust or feeling more secure and that anybody who can't get there fast enough is "stuck." Growth happens at different rates based on all kinds of things, and often people will circle back to earlier states of uncertainty as they go deeper in their therapy work and open themselves up to new states of vulnerability.

You have mentioned that what happens between you and your T is more friend-like than anything. Those of us who have therapy relationships with different, more therapeutic boundaries might be having completely different experiences, which I would hope you could keep in mind. I'm glad what you're doing with your T works for you, but it doesn't mean that it would work for everybody.

A-- No kidding, I thought people were allowed various views not his forum but it seems only people who agree with everyone else are allowed. I'm sorry, I didn't realize the rules

B-- we are friends outside of PC, please stop acting like you know anything about my friendship with LT, we have had many convos about things she does not share here.... I have every right to say what I say, as much as anyone else.

C-- I'm pretty sure I've mentioned the choice is hers, I'm also sure I've said everyone is different.... excuse me for seeing something as a stuck pattern that I'd like to see her emerge from, I didn't realize encouragement isn't welcome here.

D-- My T and my relationship is not for discussion in this thread. This is about LT, I've merely tried to reflect my own experience to show that everyone can do things differently.

E-- again, I've stated that there is no specific time line but I was merely trying to encourage her to take small steps to progress... so she isn't feeling stuck. I don't want to see her doing this over and over for years and years. It's not a bad thing to try and just have faith in your T sometimes and see how things are still ok.

[Salmon77]

This T pushes and challenges me quite a bit, and I feel I've made lots of progress because of that. [snip] I still have a ways to go, of course, but I feel this T can help me get there.

This here is all that matters. If you feel like you're gaining something from your therapy and your other relationships are improving, etc., then to me that sounds great.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

People have different needs, and every therapy relationship is different, with different feelings and preferences on both sides. Sometimes it's fine to need help or reassurance and to reach out to safe people. In those cases, setting up arbitrary goals around reducing the number of times per week or month that a person asks their therapist for help would be really counterproductive.

I also want to push back against the idea that there is a timeline for learning to trust or feeling more secure and that anybody who can't get there fast enough is "stuck." Growth happens at different rates based on all kinds of things, and often people will circle back to earlier states of uncertainty as they go deeper in their therapy work and open themselves up to new states of vulnerability.

The sentence I bolded really resonates with me. I was thinking about why I reacted so strongly to T's comment Thursday about how he generally doesn't think about me after session was over (though he countered that a bit in his email). And how I felt like I'd really been trusting him more lately and dealing with some really intense real-life issues in session (like about H and D). And I think maybe that's what it is--the fact that I *have* been trusting him more lately.

I have an anxious/insecure attachment style. It can take a lot for me to trust someone and get close to them. And when I do start to trust and feel closer and safer, it can just take one little thing--a comment, an action--to make me be like "aaagh! Maybe I was wrong, maybe this isn't safe after all." I'm not sure this is the best comparison, but I think of my D having a fear of dogs. She sees a dog out someplace and is like, "Hm, this dog seems like it might be OK." She starts approaching it, thinking maybe she'll pet it, then the dog barks. Or even just turns and looks at her directly. She turns and runs. It was just a friendly bark, or a look. But it scares her, maybe the dog isn't safe/OK. So then she might begin the approach again, with that dog or a different one. Sometimes she does make it to the dog and pets the dog. But other times...she keeps getting scared off.

So with my T, I think he's trying to reassure me and make me feel secure--like his email from a few weeks ago where he added "Reminder: I'm not going anywhere. You're not too much for me, and I intend to bear with you" (echoing something I'd said in my email to him). Say, 6 months ago, I don't think he'd have included something like that. But I think he understands now that I need that sort of reassurance from time to time, especially after what ultimately happened with ex-MC.

He seems to get it now, how much I worry about the security my relationships with everyone, not just him. And he's trying to work with me on that. For me to be doing work in there, I need to feel safe and secure with him. I don't think he's used to working with clients like me. But he's doing his best to adapt. Has he screwed up a few times? Yeah. Has he hurt me? Yeah. But he's been taking responsibility for that and doesn't seem surprised anymore when something triggers me (unlike back with the stone thing, for instance). He's being patient, and we're working through those times, which I think is exactly what I need right now. Because real-life relationships are going to trigger me, too, and I need to know how to deal with that. (this is me saying that, not him, btw.) Not saying he should intentionally trigger me, of course, and I wish he could realize something he is about to say might trigger me *before* he says it, but I think he's getting closer, at least realizing right after he says it and noticing little shifts in my body language that maybe I'm not OK.

[ElectricManatee]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

A-- No kidding, I thought people were allowed various views not his forum but it seems only people who agree with everyone else are allowed. I'm sorry, I didn't realize the rules

B-- we are friends outside of PC, please stop acting like you know anything about my friendship with LT, we have had many convos about things she does not share here.... I have every right to say what I say, as much as anyone else.

C-- I'm pretty sure I've mentioned the choice is hers, I'm also sure I've said everyone is different.... excuse me for seeing something as a stuck pattern that I'd like to see her emerge from, I didn't realize encouragement isn't welcome here.

D-- My T and my relationship is not for discussion in this thread. This is about LT, I've merely tried to reflect my own experience to show that everyone can do things differently.

E-- again, I've stated that there is no specific time line but I was merely trying to encourage her to take small steps to progress... so she isn't feeling stuck. I don't want to see her doing this over and over for years and years. It's not a bad thing to try and just have faith in your T sometimes and see how things are still ok.

If you look up in the thread, you'll see that I was commenting on your response to Waterloo, not LT. I think it's great that people bring different points of view to the forum, yours included. I was mostly pointing out that your prescriptive way of giving feedback can be a little misguided sometimes. It's one thing to say, "In my experience..." and quite another to say "I would encourage you to do X" when somebody makes a comment and you have no sense of the backstory or how their therapy works.

This is just something I had noticed you doing on the forum over time, and I thought you might appreciate the feedback since you seem to be curious lately about how you come across to other people. But I see that I have touched a nerve and for that I apologize, so I am happy to not comment on this issue any further.

[DP_2017]

^

People are welcome to take it or leave it on my comments, and I should not have to "Speak a certain way" to appease everyone. I am who I am. Like me or don't. I truly don't care.

I just find it really annoying how when I disagree with "majority" here, I get harped on, but when I have posted things about my T and me in the past, people had no problems being rude to me. I wont bother with this thread any further, I can talk to LT directly if need be. Obviously my views are not welcome on this thread.

[WarmFuzzySocks]

LT, as I was reading your Dear t post I thought of the many posts in which you've wished your therapist had said something different, and have been very specific about what they could've/should've/might've said instead.

I have seen that calm down a lot with this t.

I wonder if sometimes bumping into those edges, the line between what he actually says and what you later wish he'd said instead, might be helpful in some ways. So often as he clarifies, you get some insight into how these micro-misunderstandings (that we ALL have when we're communicating with other humans) work and how to navigate them in a healthy way.

If he were constantly trying to figure out and accommodate how you might perceive what he says, he would be less steady. Always shifting on his feet.

Hugs. It's encouraging that you're also developing enough trust to be able to dig deeper into some of the hard things you're trying to deal with in your outside-therapy life. I admire your courage.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

^

People are welcome to take it or leave it on my comments, and I should not have to "Speak a certain way" to appease everyone. I am who I am. Like me or don't. I truly don't care.

I just find it really annoying how when I disagree with "majority" here, I get harped on, but when I have posted things about my T and me in the past, people had no problems being rude to me. I wont bother with this thread any further, I can talk to LT directly if need be. Obviously my views are not welcome on this thread.

DP: its just one person pointing something out, not everyone attackign you. i like your point of view.

[stopdog]

I personally do not find it useful to be told I should do something or that someone believes they given me good advice or that I am lucky whenever the therapist is not a complete asshole. The idea that someone else would know what I should do or whether their advice is good or not does amuse me. The idea that a client is lucky when experiencing a non-awful therapist interaction is just ridiculous to me.
One can dislike the delivery but not the content and vice versa.

It is always possible others may like to be told what they should do.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by WarmFuzzySocks

LT, as I was reading your Dear t post I thought of the many posts in which you've wished your therapist had said something different, and have been very specific about what they could've/should've/might've said instead.

I have seen that calm down a lot with this t.

My second H somehow kept a list of all my commands / demands / etc and hewed to it. It was the most fake relationship i ever had. Its like i set up my own gaslighting situation. Not a good thing.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

I missed the stalker post too but for the ones I've read it doesn't seem to me to be outside the realms of competent therapy in the context of different therapeutic alliances.

In regard to length of time I've been in therapy 2x and now 3x a week for about a year and my trust and abandonment issues still going strong so it's hard to set a time line. But I did try to jump recently so as long as individuals are moving forward overall I think it's ok.

Yes, I think everyone is on their own timeline. I'm going 2x a week, and I think that's helping me make progress more quickly. It also keeps me from spending much of a session updating on the past week. My T initially offered that to me since I'd been used to seeing ex-T once a week plus ex-marriage counselor once a week. And I'm finding it's working for me. Ideally I'd like to go back to once a week at some point, but he's said as long as I find it helpful, it's fine for me to go twice a week as long as I want.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

OK, so this was about 6 months ago. Background: A month or two before that, I'd asked him for a transitional object before I went on an interview for a PhD program, and he gave me a stone from his office. The session before the one I'm linking here, I'd mentioned at end of session that I held the stone the other night when I was upset, and it had comforted me. I said, "I hope you don't think that's weird." T: "Maybe about 10% weird." The next session, I asked him to explain, leading to...stonegate.

Here's that session

OMG ....well I read a bit further on that he's not pyschodynamically trained or experienced with transference which prob explains his initial poor handling cause wanting actransitionsl object seems like the class 101 of transference and attachment!

But the way he worked with himself to work through it with you shows me that he's a good un. He clearly had some initial visceral ugggggghhhh reaction then realised what was what. Hard for you to go through as his guinea pig but he reacted well - as did you!

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ChickenNoodleSoup

I find it interesting how many people have strong opinions on this topic on here.
I'll chime in here, I don't usually like replying to the in session thread.

I think whether a therapist works for you and how you do therapy is very individual. Yes, some therapists are abusive or not ethical. But the ones that are not still come in all shapes and forms. For example, some people might need a therapist that sometimes gets angry and really shows that. Because they have never experienced someone being truly mad. Others, like me, would probably run as soon as that happened. But neither getting mad or not getting mad is always wrong, it depends on the two parties that are in the room.

I also don't think it's necessarily true that after a year the trust should be strong enough to never freak out about things that might sound like abandonment (or anything else the person in therapy struggles with, really). Therapy is a process. Sometimes things are better, sometimes they get worse again. Trust fluctuates, as does everything else in life. For a lot of more complicated issues, some repetition is needed before things have truly improved.
Some people in therapy struggle with the same thing since they were born. Expecting them to just suddenly snap out of it after a set time frame is silly. Some people will take a few months of therapy and be fine. Some will take years and never be fine. It's not the same for all people. Some ways of solving an issue will work for some, not for others. Not all people have the same experiences in life, the same character, the same way of dealing with problems or the same response to a kind of treatment.

I also find the mix of opinions to be rather fascinating. I agree that different types of therapists work for different people. And you might not know if a certain type works or doesn't work for you until you've experienced it. And it's also a case of where you are in your life or treatment as to what sort of T would work best. Had I gone to see this T 7.5 years ago, when I initially sought treatment after my D was born, I probably wouldn't have found him helpful and would have wanted to flee.

Incidentally, I'm one of those people who didn't really experience people expressing anger at me in childhood (including my parents), so dealing with that now is difficult. Really, my parents were pretty muted in any negative emotion toward me. So it's been really hard for me if, say, my H or a friend is angry with me. My T being more open with his reactions to me is thus really challenging, but also something that I feel I need to deal with. Because that will help me deal with it better in real-life relationships. I mean, I wouldn't want my T yelling at me for no reason or just being a a**hole (I know, some people feel he has been). At the same time, I can find it helpful that he does share how I "affect" him. (I mean, I clearly affected ex-MC at times, and he didn't share anything about how I affected him till the very end, and it's not like that turned out well...)

And I'm glad you also mentioned the thing about therapy being a process, and a year with someone doesn't necessarily mean I should automatically have full trust in them. The other thing at play here is the fact that, within the past year, I was intensely hurt by a T who I trusted deeply, ex-MC. So it makes sense I think that I might be a bit more scared to trust current T. And for it to not necessarily be linear, like not going on a straight line from trust at 0 to trust at 10. It might be a 0, then a 5, then something happens, so I go back to a 3, then it goes up to a 7, then to a 6, and so on. I still feel I'm ultimately making progress--and I think that's evident in the way I communicate with this T (especially if I look back on early emails to him and emails to ex-T and ex-MC). It's just not completely linear (thanks, anxious attachment style!).

[Waterloo12345]

[QUOTE=DP_2017;6323296]You seem stuck too and it's sad. I hate to see people feeling stuck in patterns in therapy. I'd also encourage you to try some small changes. If one of your ways to seeking reassurance is emailing often, go one week without, if you constantly apologize in session or ask T if they care, go one week without. When you see that T is still there, still cares and nothing has changed, it can help, It's no doubt hard and scary but it's a good way to slowly try to pull yourself out of the same patterns.

I guess this is why posts/forums may be unhelpful or ineffective as the tone may be off or the full picture is not known. I don't mean to be rude at all but I actually laughed out loud when I read this as I've come so far in the last year.

Before I and docs just thought I had bog standard massive depression that was cyclical etc etc - have some meds and a bit of CBT (In the UK).

But about 6 months ago the cptsd penny dropped - only 42 yrs old what a waste - the nhs is not very trauma informed and when it is there are scarce resources - and we've been working on it.

I push on but progress might be measured in no more 3am emails even if write 2x a week or now none a week (yayy me) or similar. Slow v baby steps with 2 forward and 1 1/2 back and it's a first time thing so no patterns to follow. Less spiralling or if I do they last less time or less intense - if e.g. I do perceive abandonment.

Best, W.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Yes, I think everyone is on their own timeline. I'm going 2x a week, and I think that's helping me make progress more quickly. It also keeps me from spending much of a session updating on the past week. My T initially offered that to me since I'd been used to seeing ex-T once a week plus ex-marriage counselor once a week. And I'm finding it's working for me. Ideally I'd like to go back to once a week at some point, but he's said as long as I find it helpful, it's fine for me to go twice a week as long as I want.

It's amazing the difference for me. We started 1x a week for about 2 months then 2x for about 8 months and now 3x for a defined period of 3 months before we go back to 1x a week or at least that's the plan. I find that I use the first session to get back in the grove, update on week, intro a 'Hard' topic knowing I have lots of time to delve into it and then get back to equilibrium. 2x is great but it interfers too much with earning ££££ so we are trying this strategy.

[Lemoncake]

Just a side note, but I'm proud of how far you've come LT. I can see the difference and growth in your posts.

[Glowworm80]

I wasn't a big fan of your new T at the start LT. I didn't think he had a lot of experience with attachment and transference. It seems to me though from what you have shared that it is something he has worked on and is improving. As much as I hate it in the moment as it can be painful I have found great healing in the rupture and repair of my relationship with my T. I really liked his response to your email to me it seemed sincere, honest and authentic and acknowledges his error and validates your feelings. I love reading your threads and sometimes feel as if I am almost there.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

The other thing at play here is the fact that, within the past year, I was intensely hurt by a T who I trusted deeply, ex-MC. So it makes sense I think that I might be a bit more scared to trust current T.

Maybe I'm being dense, maybe I just see human relationships differently. But I don't see how trust and being hurt by someone are that dependent on one another. Intentional hurts do relate to trust, from a friend not showing up for a coffee date to someone lying about something important, infidelity. But I don't know that it's realistic to "trust" that someone will not hurt you unintentionally, saying something that is hurtful even if they think there is some risk you might take it badly.

I think when people have a stronger core, they can take the slings and arrows of intimacy with others without it feeling like a wound, and that is where the issue of caring less about what others think may reside. I think if your definition of trust means that someone will never hurt you, that strikes me as unrealistic and bound for trouble.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Maybe I'm being dense, maybe I just see human relationships differently. But I don't see how trust and being hurt by someone are that dependent on one another. Intentional hurts do relate to trust, from a friend not showing up for a coffee date to someone lying about something important, infidelity. But I don't know that it's realistic to "trust" that someone will not hurt you unintentionally, saying something that is hurtful even if they think there is some risk you might take it badly.

I think when people have a stronger core, they can take the slings and arrows of intimacy with others without it feeling like a wound, and that is where the issue of caring less about what others think may reside. I think if your definition of trust means that someone will never hurt you, that strikes me as unrealistic and bound for trouble.

Really? I guess I just think it's natural if I've been hurt recently that I'd struggle more with trust. In the same way that if I'd been in a romantic relationship with someone who really hurt me, it would be more difficult to trust the next person I dated. Maybe it's just an anxious attachment thing?

And I don't believe that people will never hurt me. I'm not delusional. But I'm also not going to blindly trust them.

[toomanycats]

FWIW, I've been seeing C as long as you've been seing this T, and I still struggle with trusting him.

Andplusalso, the fear of the inevitable hurts.

C puts his foot in his mouth often -- similar to your T (in my opinion). But, I have enough foundational trust in him & who he is to be able to work with him through his foot-in-mouth episodes. Similar to you...

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Really? I guess I just think it's natural if I've been hurt recently that I'd struggle more with trust. In the same way that if I'd been in a romantic relationship with someone who really hurt me, it would be more difficult to trust the next person I dated. Maybe it's just an anxious attachment thing?

I think trust is pretty complex and probably deserves its own thread. I don't think it was so much what you said about being hurt being related to trusting in general. I think it both is and isn't, and the isn't part for me is that when someone is hurt when they trusted another person, what does that have to do with another person? Whether someone else was trustworthy or not doesn't have any bearing on whether the next person is, unless it's more about your ability to accurately judge who's trustworthy and who's not. If X was untrustworthy, that doesn't make Y, a totally different person, more or less trustworthy.

I also find it difficult to understand what being trustworthy means in the T context. It sounds like you think if your T is trustworthy, then he'll never say or do anything to hurt you. I am oversimplifying this, because there have been things said and done in the course of your therapy that have been hurtful to you, or at least that's my understanding.

But I thought of this context of trust while I was reading Brene Brown's most recent book about leadership, and she defines it in terms of behavioral actions, seven different categories of them. I thought it was interesting, to try to nail down what trust means. Seems pretty applicable to any kind of relationship, including a T one:

http://creativebynature.org/wp-conte...01/BRAVING.pdf

[unaluna]

Thanks anne, thats beautiful. The "generous" especially resonates with me. To not be jumping down the other persons throat all the time, "why did you say this, you really meant that!" My family always finds the hidden meanings in what i say. Trust me, i can be forthright. But more aalong the lines of "ask me no questions and i'll tell you no lies." Hey i do the best i can.

[NP_Complete]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I think trust is pretty complex and probably deserves its own thread. I don't think it was so much what you said about being hurt being related to trusting in general. I think it both is and isn't, and the isn't part for me is that when someone is hurt when they trusted another person, what does that have to do with another person? Whether someone else was trustworthy or not doesn't have any bearing on whether the next person is, unless it's more about your ability to accurately judge who's trustworthy and who's not. If X was untrustworthy, that doesn't make Y, a totally different person, more or less trustworthy.

I also find it difficult to understand what being trustworthy means in the T context. It sounds like you think if your T is trustworthy, then he'll never say or do anything to hurt you. I am oversimplifying this, because there have been things said and done in the course of your therapy that have been hurtful to you, or at least that's my understanding.

But I thought of this context of trust while I was reading Brene Brown's most recent book about leadership, and she defines it in terms of behavioral actions, seven different categories of them. I thought it was interesting, to try to nail down what trust means. Seems pretty applicable to any kind of relationship, including a T one:

http://creativebynature.org/wp-conte...01/BRAVING.pdf

I agree with what you say about person X and person Y being different people, but if person X hurts you it can make it harder to trust person Y. It has nothing to do with how inherently trustworthy Y is. In my experience, that can bleed over into the T relationship. If I've felt hurt by enough people, I start to extrapolate that mistrust onto every relationship, even the one with my therapist. I think for me, in my therapy, it's about trying to loosen up and give people a chance.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by unaluna

My family always finds the hidden meanings in what i say. Trust me, i can be forthright. But more aalong the lines of "ask me no questions and i'll tell you no lies." Hey i do the best i can.

Parenting a teenager has been an exercise in trying to teach him not to insert meanings I don't believe or say, and how harmful it is to relationships to do this. I've bashed my head metaphorically a few times when he's said the nearly cliche lines, "so you're saying you don't love me" or "you're saying I'm just a screw up with no chance at a decent life," blah blah blah.

But my family was of the sort where the "hidden meanings" were actually the true ones, at least when they said them. I had to learn to just say what I thought while skipping the land mines, what I call a position of limited agreement. Once I saw my son, in kindergarten at the time, negotiate this with a friend of a different faith. Friend said, "do you believe in Jesus Christ the Savior of the World?" Boy said, "I believe Jesus was a man." Friend said, "it's good you believe in Jesus."