that says everything..

T threw me for a loop.. raised the bar.. i don't think the middle of a crisis situation is the time for bar raising.. but what do i know? He said he'd be there for me during the coming weeks as the crisis gains momentum. There isn't anything i can do to stop it coming, all i can hope for is to manage better. But he said he would.. and then he wasn't.. i called and he called back, so physically he was there.. but he wasn't there . He didn't want to say supportive things.. felt i needed to learn to do those things for myself. um... wtf?

what does he mean by "being there?" i am so lost. i don't know what is ok to ask for now. And honestly, i could really give a flying rat's *** about growth and learning right this second. My goal over the next couple of weeks is to stay alive.. still be breathing and sane... my goal is to keep my head above water, not do %#@&#! water ballet.

so what does he mean by being there is he doesn't mean he is willing to offer supportive statements? anyone?

i am so confused. So lost.. and i was feeling that way before i even called him.. now i am just like a zombie or something..

i tired to tell him that i have been clinging to this ledge on a highrise and the building is on fire.. the ledge will crumble and be gone soon.. i have to leap or fall, either way something has to happen... and i need to know i can count on him to help me grab that ladder that is just out of reach. It's a long way down if i fall.

is it wrong right now for me to ask him if he is going to be there for me? Is it wrong that i am afraid he might abandon me during this?

i just don't know anymore. i am facing the biggest thing so far in my career and there's a lot of pressure, i have all the usual medical stuff (pain and stuff) and i have this developing major life crisis. Is now really the time for me to be trying to learn new skills? Is it not reasonable for me to need some stasis right now?

so confused. in so much turmoil and pain.

[winterbaby]

Well...I think in his mind, he is already there for you. Maybe he wants you to take a leap so to speak (not off the building) of faith and believe him. Maybe this is his version of "there" for you at this time. He won't abandon you. T's don't always have supportive statements to dish out, but that doesn't mean they don't want to be supportive. In his own mind, he was probably doing what he thought was best (which is his responsibility.) You can accept that or not, but perhaps this is what he feels you need at this time. Maybe try to trust him a bit. If you have that kind of relationship, that is.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
MzJelloFluff said:

i just don't know anymore. i am facing the biggest thing so far in my career and there's a lot of pressure, i have all the usual medical stuff (pain and stuff) and i have this developing major life crisis. Is now really the time for me to be trying to learn new skills? Is it not reasonable for me to need some stasis right now?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Interesting... because I was asking myself some questions like this Tuesday after my appointment. I also have a very full plate at the moment and I was questioning.. what the %^&* am I doing adding more stress. To me therapy is supposed to help me feel BETTER not worse. I understand that it can be difficult at times, and sometimes you need to open wounds in order to achieve healing, bah, bah, bah... But for me in the end when I leave the session damn it I SHOULD FEEL BETTER! Not more lost, not more stress, not more helplessness!

I don't think this expectation is unreasonable for patients to have when seeking any health care intervention. When I treat my patient's, mosts expect to leave the appointment feeling at least slightly better than when they came. In fact, I use my skills to facilitate this because I want them to be compliant, to trust me, and to come back.

Why would we expect anything different from psychotherapy? If we think we need loving, caring, and supportive feedback shouldn't our Ts give us that? If we have been abused and we just discovered in therapy that what our "inner child" wants to be held, hugged, and unconditionally loved, shouldn't our T provide that? If we went to therapy and found out that we don't accept care from others well, it seems reasonable that our T's would give us lots and lots of CARING, so that we could practice accepting it. I'm not a trained psychotherapist but; it makes sense to me. I'm paying for therapy give me what I want.

Now that I wrote that I'm honestly thinking, I'd really like therapy that. Why can't it be like that? I did have a point here.... oh yeah

Maybe as Perna ( with her usually insightfulness) pointed out in my thread....Maybe...just maybe the therapeutic process is something more. What?... I don't know...How?... I really don't know.. Why... ???? Maybe there is a good reason for why it can be like described above.

Jello... sorry if this is just senseless rambling. I just wanted to say.. I hear you, I can totally relate to what you are expressing, and I feel the same way sometimes. I'm hoping that the frustration, and stress, turmoil you are feeling right now will eventually lead to a better place some how.

[chaotic13]

Sorry,
I couldn't resist some humor. I just re-read the second to the last paragraph and thought of the Grinch. I apologize if you are not in the mood for laugher today. I really do hope you feel better, not sure how to convey that with the intended sincerity online --I know may sounds stupid but I really think of you as a cyber friend and just want to reach out an hug you today. I guess that's why they included the smilies feature.. hear ya go..
"How could it be so?"
"It came with out ribbons! It came with out tags!"
"It came with out packages, boxes or bags!"
And he puzzled three hours, til his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before!

"Maybe Christmas," he thought, "doesn't come from a store."
"Maybe Christmas...perhaps...means a little bit more!"

[Perna]

MzJello, he called you right back. How much more "there" could he be? His self was there. That's all he has to give you!

Think of a baby and how it learns to go to sleep. It has to learn to self-soothe, and at first, it cries a lot before it goes to sleep? His "holding" you and saying supportive things to you would not have gotten you further toward your goal with him of getting to sleep on your own?

Yes, you're having a heck of a stressful life right now; are crying yourself to sleep for a longer period of time. But when you get to sleep, it will be your doing. You won't be dependent on the Rozerem. Put your T's name in place of the sleep med. Wouldn't you prefer natural sleep? The crisis is for a limited period; between us :-) and T and YOU, you'll make it through that period. The more "you" the better.

Another way of thinking about it; think of the crisis and think about comforting "words" in the crisis. The words don't help the crisis in any way, actually can distract you from working on it? They're just "nice". I don't want my fire fighters stopping in the middle of fighting a fire to accept a glass of water from the nice little old lady -- look at runners and how fast they dash that water into their faces and throw the cup away! Concentrate on the crisis, not how comfortable or uncomfortable you feel?

{{{MzJelloFluff}}}

[Brian37]

very well said Perna

[sunrise]

It sounds like a really challenging time in your life right now, JelloFluff.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
MzJelloFluff said:
so what does he mean by being there is he doesn't mean he is willing to offer supportive statements?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Your T is the one you need to ask this question. We can speculate, but we don't know. It is clear you thought he meant something he didn't so your expectations were out of sync with reality. Please ask him what he meant so you can get clarity on this.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
is it wrong right now for me to ask him if he is going to be there for me? Is it wrong that i am afraid he might abandon me during this?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Why all the focus on right and wrong? He did tell you he would be there for you, but you can certainly ask again! This isn't the Gong Show. And there is no right or wrong about being afraid. Go ahead and share your fears with your T.

I think there are times in therapy when we need more support than others. For example, I think doing deep trauma work is difficult during a personal and current crisis. Jello, if you feel you need more support right now, can you ask your T for that? (Or maybe you have asked?) I think T's love it when we can clearly state our needs to them.

There was a time, with my previous therapist, when there was too much turmoil in my life for me to work with her. Going to see her made me focus on how stuck I was in my life and unable to make progress but yet I didn't have the strength to work on it in therapy. I needed a break! So I took a vacation from therapy for 3-4 months, gathered strength and the desire to make progress, and then returned to her. "Taking a break" can be part of therapy too, so if therapy is making things worse for you, and you have clearly stated your needs to your T and he can't provide them, maybe take a step back from therapy? And come back to it when you are stronger and can handle your T's pushes toward growth, change, or whatever he is doing that is not supportive to you in this crisis.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
He did tell you he would be there for you, but you can certainly ask again! This isn't the Gong Show. And there is no right or wrong about being afraid. Go ahead and share your fears with your T.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

apparently.... it is the gong show. That was what this whole mess was about.. i asked him again. For the 2nd time in a year, i asked him if he would be there for me.. i said i was faced with believing and trusting him vs others in my life.

perna.. just what was "his self" supposed to say on the other end of the phone? i am genuine in asking.. if he can't or won't offer supportive statements... then exactly what is *there* ? i do not understand.... in your analogy it would seem more appropriate a comparison if he said for me not to call because i needed to, in your words, cry myself to sleep. But he didn't.. he said to call.. and that he'd be there.. so i do not know what he meant. i feel like crap, i call him and say what exactly? i apparently am not supposed to ask what i did... so... um... why would i call? Why not just feel miserable and do a bad job like i have always done? i simply do not know how to do things like this and he knows that... i certainly HOPE i learn.. i want to learn..

but with my husband returning soon... yes, you heard me... i am reverting into something i once was.. and had to be to survive. i am mired in strong fear and pain and anguish. i am barely functioning at all... i dont remember simple things and it has taken me forever to type this much because i can't hold onto a thought. i have retreated in my mind and it is what i have had to do to make it through.... teaching me self soothing is a great idea.. and would have been a few weeks ago.. or a few weeks from now... but now? No. Not a good idea. All that happened was that i lay down and thot about overdosing. Not because of T and his actions, but because of life and what i am facing... i had counted on T to help me secure some anchors. He chose not to.

i tried to make him understand today that there are moments now, with increasing frequency and severity, in which i move closer to becoming a suicide risk. i am often not *here* i am someplace else... i can see the points he made, and that you guys are making.. i can.. those are things i want.. right now though.. what i want is to still be alive this time next month.

today went better.. but we didn't talk a lot about the phone call... mostly because i avoided it. i am so very fragile right now and i honestly felt that if he were to push again i would be unable to cope. i did tell him not to push and he gave me his "therapists promise" that he wouldn't. As i was leaving i asked him if he knew how bad i was feeling.. i tried several times during session to get him to see that i was trying to tell him how trapped i feel and how suicidal i had once been..

i told him i needed support from him.. right now i just need support.. not growth, not lessons, not anything other than plain old vanilla support. Basically, if he can't do that i'd rather he just terminated now. This isn't resisting.. this is survival. This is what i have to do to keep myself safe, literally. Pushing me right now might result in pushing me over the edge.

yeah.. a step back. i am thinking hard on this.

mckell... i hate to tell you this.. but no, actually.. therapy is *not* meant to make you feel better. Nice eh? My T said that to me once and i remember thinking that this was some kind of rip off. But he's right, it isn't. Not on a session to session basis. Overall, yeah, one would hope so, but from appt to appt? Nope. Think more of physio than of other health services. Physio hurts really bad, and the more significant the original injury, the greater that hurt. Make sense?

i just don't know what to put faith in... just where is that railing? If i can call i need to know when i can or cant... what is it i need to do myself right now and what is good to call T for? i just dont know.

faith.. trust.. i am trying. i try harder than you can imagine.

[tulips30]

Fluff, I have read your last post a couple of times. I am left wondering what your t. said when you asked him if he knew how fragile you are and how bad you have been feeling? Also, when you told him directly that what you needed right now was support not growth, what was his response?

I am really trying to get a handle on how you are feeling. I DO understand the part about having times when the support takes precedence over everything else. There are appropriate times for learning and growth and alternately there are times when supportive therapy is what is called for. It sounds like you have made it very clear to him what you are needing for now. Your needs do NOT sound outrageous or unreasonable to me.

I am thinking of you and really hoping that he is "getting" what is happening to you.

tulips

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
tulips30 said:
I am left wondering what your t. said when you asked him if he knew how fragile you are and how bad you have been feeling? Also, when you told him directly that what you needed right now was support not growth, what was his response?

I am thinking of you and really hoping that he is "getting" what is happening to you.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

well,it's a little confusing to me too..he said he had an idea but obviously he can't know the full depth of it. When i said what i needed right now was just support he didn't really saymuch of anything, but he seemed agreeable to it... he just didn't say it dfirectly and soi still don't feel like i know.

i don't know if he is *getting* it... i just don't know. i told him i was finding myself connecting to the bad times from before...like the two places in the freeway that i drove every day... one a river/bridge and the other the massive support columns of an overpass... not everyday, but too many days i had to grip my steering wheel to make it past those.

i am not exactly suicidal.. but i am too closely reminded of that intense pain.i am afraid i'll be there again. It's already unraveling.

i don't know... he didn't say the things i feel i need to put it that way. Is that just how he is? Maybe his ideas about support are suggestions you know? rather than comfort and listening only... i don't know.i have worried about this for a long time and have wondered if i would have been better off with a psychoanalytic T.i adore him though, and probably never would leave him for another T... not unless i feel i have no choice.

it's weird because i feel like he really does care and that he feels for me... that when i am desperate i think he feels the instinct to comfort me... he has said as much. But he hesitates and sometimes decides to push instead. He said yesterday that his timing is not always perfect. i am not sure if that means he has decided his words on the phone were a bad idea at that time...it sounded that way.

i lieft him a voicemail at 230am again... i said i didn't want him to call me back unless i had this all wrong.. i said i needed just support and not to push right now.. and i said what i *think* he wants me to do less of, and he wants to support less is me questioning *this* relationship... trust and abandonment etc.... and what i *think* is ok to call about more is the issues surrounding H.. my fears about that.. my problems believing i didn't cause the abuse, feeling repsonsible,being unable to stand my ground...

i *think* that is what HE meant by "being there."

so if i am wrong i asked for a call back to explain or clarify. What i want from him right now is for him to give me a solid framework... i need to know which needs or feelings i can bring to him without pushing from him, and which ones i need to try to soothe myself

does this make sense?

[pachyderm]

I do not know what major life crisis you are anticipating. Have you related that here before? If so, I missed it. Can you find some sanctuary to ride it out? Or evade it until you are stronger?

The T is not your only resource. Psych Central and the people on it are here too.

thank you pachyderm. i know.. PC is a sanctuary in many ways...

crisis = my husband is coming here for a week. He is the reason i am making that list on the other thread. He became verbally, emotionally and mentally abusive. He became psychotic. That is the very very short version. i know he wont physically hurt me.. i think.. i mean he did get arrested once for trying to attack someone.. and some of my friends were worried he would kill me. i dont think so. But i am afraid. i go into survival mode. It's about him and it's about my past. Either way i am not myself. i withdraw and become very submissive.. hestitant. apologetic. If yelled at i will freeze and start sobbing uncontrollably. I get so scared i nearly wet myself. Not all of that comes from H. But the line is blurry.

He has been well of late.. not screaming.. just controlling. He wants me to work it out with him.. and in attempting to convince me he told me i was a horrible person to live with. My T said he's like a guy on a first date who cant even pretend he's not an %#@&#!. (i laughed really really hard at that) i dunno, H's logic defies reason sometimes... i'm a ***** to live with? Makes me feel all loved to hear him say that.

T said last time that because i felt so weakened.. maybe i should shoot for the status quo, just to make it through.. but the optimal goal is to tell H it is over, no going back.

That is why i need support and not lessons in growth.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
MzJelloFluff said:
T said last time that because i felt so weakened.. maybe i should shoot for the status quo, just to make it through.. but the optimal goal is to tell H it is over, no going back.

That is why i need support and not lessons in growth.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I had to do accomplish enormous growth in therapy before I was ready to tell H it is over. The status quo went on forever for me, but therapy helped me grow enough to end it. Support was not enough for me to end it. I don't mean that to be discouraging, JelloFluff. I hope you can get what you need in therapy in order to move forward.

[Perna]

Does he have to stay with you and for long? You can't meet at a neutral place? I would keep him as far away from my space if you know his effect on you is/will be negative.

I think there is only so much "support" your T can do. When my brother was in the middle of his alcoholic meltdown and was calling me instead of our parents (I'm 9 years younger than he is, he use to care for me when I was little so the roles were reversed) because he thought they were "mad" at him and they were calling me worried, trying to learn what was going on and I wasn't in any sort of place to be able to mediate or be there at all. I called my T and she pointed out I knew what to do and if I "can't" do something then I can't do it! T's can't make it all better, less terrifying or miserable. They can just "be" (in the literal sense) there. When you go see your T when your husband's in town you take what you can from him, etc. the "sense" of him and you all's relationship. That's all there was for me, just knowing this horrible thing would eventually resolve itself one way or another and I could anchor myself on my T being there.

[tulips30]

Fluff, I was thinking along the same lines as Perna. Maybe a neutral place? A place where if things got bad, you would be safe. A place that doesn't really belong to either of you emotionally?

I have to say honestly that I think your t. needs to be playing a heavy supportive role as you are doing the things that must be done. For ex: discussing terminating marriage, his anger management etc. I'm wondering if you and t. have discussed a potential "plan" for you and the things you need to do. Kind of like a set agenda or "game-plan" to follow. Maybe as you are actually working this plan for managing the time with husband, you could speak with t. daily and report what is happening and what you need help with.




I have a feeling that what I am typing makes a lot more sense in my head than here.I'm sorry. I had a situation last year (w/my daughter) that required this kind of help from my t. I knew there were certain things that had to happen and was very unsure I could see it thru. I would call him each evening and we would go over what had happened that day and how I could have done it differently etc. It was very supportive , but also left me in charge of making the changes. Does any of this apply? If not, I'm sorry.

tulips

yeah tulips.. major avoidance on my part i think. i dunno.. i have resisted efforts to "plan" because.. well.. i don't *know* but i think it's because i dont want to set myself up to fail.. because i believe i will do and be certain things.. to plan for something different than what i believe is setting me up.. and before anyone says it, yeah i really do know that the belief needs to change. Boy, does it.. but i don't have time for that at this point.. and beliefs dont change easy or quickly.

i am thinking that for some of this i am going to hide internally, just do automatically what i know works to get through.. and for some i am going to pretend... i am going to pretend i am someone who believes differently than i do. Weird, but it sounds like some kind of plan right? Pretend i am strong?

i know T cant make it better.. i do, even when i want him to.. but what i want is to not be pushed right now.. i need him to give positive, reinforcing statements... enphasize the things i am getting right.. tell me in direct and simple statements the things i need to hang onto.. "i will be there" "you can do this" "it isn't wrong to feel the way you do" and so on.. things i want to believe but cant quite get there.. things i am aiming for but somehow lose sight of. i need an anchor.

thanks guys for being here.. i deeply love this place and you guys.