Why Do I Continue to Dehumanize Therapy?

I know I've been here before but I did it again. My last few sessions have gone well. Yet I realized this week that I still insist on dehumanizing the interaction between my T and me.

During my last session I brought with me a chart I had made and some other reflections. This document was something I had created for myself, so was not edited for sharing. Often when I write down my ideas, I write down some personal questions that arise. They are not necessary things I want someone else to answer they are more questions/comments that surface as I write. I often go back and try to answer them myself. I also tend to be a bit sarcastic and direct when questioning myself. Well this document had several these questions among my ramblings ... why do I think that?.. Why do I do that?..Is this related to that some how?

While discussing my ego states, she asked to see the chart I created and I gave her the document not wanting to seem like I am withholding stuff. Of course after looking at the chart, she starts looking though the other parts of the document and I am like --F&^% what else was in there?
Of course she see a few of these questions and reads them out loud and answering them. One of the rhetorical questions was "Why do I seem compelled to disclose this crap to a complete stranger?" My T was like "You always go back to this." She looks right at me and says, "We are not strangers anymore." I felt like %#@&#!!

I find myself asking yet again, Why, after 8 months of interacting with this woman, do I still want to believe that she has no interest in me other than that I provide income for her? I insist on telling myself that I am just some walking pathology to fix? I know many people post about wanting their T's to care for them as individuals, yet I resist this repeatedly. I know it is likely just some form of denial. Like Miss Charlotte's T said, "Why wouldn't you want to be special to me?"

I don't get it. Why do I keep making myself out to be just some nameless freak?

Mckell, what might you be giving up in order to let this person care about you?
Sometimes we think there is a price for things; a price for love or caring for example.... do you relate to that?
Is it too scary to be cared for?
How would you relate to being cared for?
What is the price for letting T into your heart?

Maybe those will reveal some inner thoughts. I just got another workbook last night - the Borderline personality workbook. It is designed to have us look at our schemas and see why we think what we do - even while in "auto pilot".

Is it too scary to be cared for? Hmm...maybe...I don't think I like being cared for because then there is kind of an obligation to care back. Which I sometimes don't reciprocate feelings of caring and love well. At least that is what my husband and other past family members have told me.

What is the price for letting T into you heart? Well first I don't think she really wants to be in my heart. That to me is a bit too close. If I did care more deeply for her... then I guess might miss her when she is no longer my T. I kind of like the idea that I can walk away from just about anyone in my life (except my kids of course), and not look back. I'd kind of be like, man it sucks that I don't have this person to chat with anymore, but oh well I'll live. Don't get me wrong, I like my T as a person, I respect her opinion, I miss not having her to talk to but I'd get over it.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Kiya said:
what might you be giving up in order to let this person care about you?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
The right to be indifferent

Damn that sound really bad.

I had a lot of trouble when I was young, not being swallowed by my stepmother's strong personality. So, I sometimes feel like I'm being sucked in and will lose my identity if I get close to someone.

I find it interesting you use the word "dehumanize". If you are "things" though, maybe that means you can move them around like pieces on a chessboard, be in "control" better?

There's a book I like, The Homeward Bounders that is like that, being controlled by "them" who are stronger entities and only discovering the rules as you go along:

http://www.amazon.com/Homeward-Bound...dp/B000IOF4FE/

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I know many people post about wanting their T's to care for them as individuals, yet I resist this repeatedly.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I'll tell you the down side to wanting T to care for you as an individual -- they can only care but so much, it ends in 50 minutes, and the T has the power. This is a major issue for me right now and it ain't pretty. The worst part - T will one day be out of your life.

Your T seems to have an obsession about reading things you write outloud. And from what I gather, it is usually the things that make you the most uncomfortable (not sure about this).

I swear, I think you should plant something. For example, you could write down, I wonder when my T is ever going to get a new couch cover and see if she reads it. LOL

(((McKell)))

Soliaree LOL

Yes, My T does read stuff I write out loud, and the stuff she picks out makes me most uncomfortable. The statement she read the other day was buried among some other meaningless rambling and questions. I should be getting used to this by now--she has been very consistent about with this. I now I know I am a different person when I write.The person who sits in therapy doesn't particularly the writer.

Sometimes it is like my hearing is amplified. I write stuff that I often want to express but can't tolerate hearing myself say. Its like by reading it she is forcing me to hear it-- but not in a mean way. Even when she read the really personal stuff I wrote, it wasn't done in a malicious way. I thought it was at the time, but in closer review it was done with great sensitivity. See this is more evidence that I KNOW she is not some uncaring monster who is out to get me.

I think the fact that I was embarrassed that I referred to her as a "complete stranger" demonstrates that I do care about this relationship. So I do think my continuing tendency to minimize our interactions is some defensive mechanism. It just pisses me off that I keep doing it.

Perna, I used the term dehumanize because I seem to want to make her into some uncaring, non-compassionate person who is just going through the motions of listening to me. I want her to be like that for some reason. There is overwhelming evidence that this portrayal of her is simply not accurate. So I continually ask myself --why is it that I want to cast her in this role? I know I do this, most of the time when I write I red flag these statements and deliberately challenge & change them. I just don't get what is in it for me to continue this thought pattern when I know it is not accurate. I also wonder how many other relationships I do this to.

One of those subliminal ego states is making me do it :-)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell13 said:
I just don't get what is in it for me to continue this thought pattern when I know it is not accurate.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Sounds like what is in it for you is to protect yourself from getting too close and then being rejected and hurt. That's why you are doing it. It's OK. Chances are you learned this many years ago and had it reinforced for a long time. Now you are in therapy and can work on unlearning it. It takes a lot of time!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
One of those subliminal ego states is making me do it :-)

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Yes, most certainly! One of mine gets me in a tizzy with his warped thinking. Sometimes I do an "end run" around him, by listening deep for my true feelings and following those, not listening to his inaccurate thoughts. It always helps me to go to the feelings, because they are true, and ignore the skewed thoughts.

Hey McKell,

I know for me, the difficulty lies in the intimacy of the relationship. I push people away before they can hurt me. And even when I've let them in--to a degree--I pretend they don't matter.

Sigh. Letting people in is risky, isn't it?

I have a question, regarding the referral to ego states.

I didn't enter into the other thread you guys head going on this but I wonder if it is easier for you to call it by a clinical name (ego states) than to acknowledge that this is parts of yourself. Is it a way to not be intimate with one's self? Do we push ourselves away the same way we push others?

Although I do not use the term Ego States (and neither does T) I do include myself in the category of people who struggle with intimacy.

Peace

I found your comment about my use of ego states very interesting Miss Charlotte. Although I am a bit scatter brained and often leave out words or ending of words when I write, I usually choice my descriptors carefully but sometime unconsciously. Perna comment about the word dehumanizing made me think about why I chose that word, and in fact when I went back and thought about it, it was a good choice for what I was doing (in my mind anyway). Ego states... yes I think I use it because I see some of my behavior patterns as pathological and therefore I want to keep it separate from ME. Who ever that really is. When you first talked about your little girl state and created the build-a-bear to represent her, I had a gut reaction to that. Not to you, personally, but to how you were willing to embrace and accept her. Your post occurred at a time when I had just been questioned about what the past me was feeling or wanting. I had just realized that this part of me existed, and I did not like it one bit. You were embracing this ego state and I just simply wanted wanted no part of it. I'm not sure how I ultimately presented myself on PC but internally was very,,, rattle by that whole thread. Some of you are able to give these states names, genders, and visual representation. I'm struggling to do that, so my terms are very neutral.

Ever since we had the discussion a while back regarding the interaction between T's and clients and Sunrise used the term therapeutic relationship, I've latched on to that one too. The term relationship to me has an intimate or sexual feeling associated with it. Therapeutic relationship give me a term to use that is more clinical and less confusing to me.

It's silly because I want want to explore this aspect of myself and I want close, intimate "relationships" with people. But I don't want the baggage or strings that come with these relationships. I want to feel and experience a full range of emotions but I want to turn them on and off at will. My wants are very...dichotomous and I cannot seem to find a way to fulfill both or find a compromise.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell13 said:
I know I've been here before but I did it again. My last few sessions have gone well. Yet I realized this week that I still insist on dehumanizing the interaction between my T and me.

During my last session I brought with me a chart I had made and some other reflections. This document was something I had created for myself, so was not edited for sharing. Often when I write down my ideas, I write down some personal questions that arise. They are not necessary things I want someone else to answer they are more questions/comments that surface as I write. I often go back and try to answer them myself. I also tend to be a bit sarcastic and direct when questioning myself. Well this document had several these questions among my ramblings ... why do I think that?.. Why do I do that?..Is this related to that some how?

While discussing my ego states, she asked to see the chart I created and I gave her the document not wanting to seem like I am withholding stuff. Of course after looking at the chart, she starts looking though the other parts of the document and I am like --F&^% what else was in there?
Of course she see a few of these questions and reads them out loud and answering them. One of the rhetorical questions was "Why do I seem compelled to disclose this crap to a complete stranger?" My T was like "You always go back to this." She looks right at me and says, "We are not strangers anymore." I felt like %#@&#!!

I find myself asking yet again, Why, after 8 months of interacting with this woman, do I still want to believe that she has no interest in me other than that I provide income for her? I insist on telling myself that I am just some walking pathology to fix? I know many people post about wanting their T's to care for them as individuals, yet I resist this repeatedly. I know it is likely just some form of denial. Like Miss Charlotte's T said, "Why wouldn't you want to be special to me?"

I don't get it. Why do I keep making myself out to be just some nameless freak?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't think you are resisting it, you made a chart knowing some personal questions were written upon it unyet somehow you managed to show T the chart...I think you would have found a way to withold it if it really was a matter of just de-humanising the relationship...its more like your just trying to withold so as to protect yourself just-in-case there is no-one-else on the other end of the relationship...but there is as T did take your chart and did discuss it with you, someone else is there...and to keep feeling they have no interest us in us as persons is just how we felt when very young...we just take a long tiem to come out of the fog and see the other person/T for real....what I find I resist at times now is seeing the real relationship fighting every step as I am brought of my fantasises into the real deal...wanting to love our T's and never hate them is all part of wanting to avoid the real relationship that is in the room....so everyone has resistences but all in different ways...our fantasises of one minute the T being wonderful and the next the devil are all the ways a young child sees people until they learn to intergrate another into a whole...I'd say your on track and not feeling or doign anything different to anyone else in therapy....its how our T's deal with these things that will make the difference ...do they enable us to remain suspended in some peter pan fantasy or do they gently but firmly lead us out of the fog into the real relationship?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell13 said:
My wants are very...dichotomous and I cannot seem to find a way to fulfill both or find a compromise.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I'm having trouble with a situation like that in my life and have, over the years, taught myself to shift my perspective to eventually get out of that "groove" I've made. I'm not very fast at figuring out just how to shift a particular view but one thing I've noticed is if I think from a different physical place (like sunny, I think it was, moving to a different chair/couch in her T's office and her T moving too?). You might try that? I was telling a T just yesterday how, as a child, I liked to climb up on my bedroom dresser and look at my room from there Different perspective will give a different view?

I just feel like there are things going on simultaneously with different relationships, I can't make sense of any of it. I have major issues with my relationship with my husband. I don't feel comfortable venting and trash talking about him or talking about our private life. Therapy has triggered a lot of past memories both good and bad and I don't know what do to with them. Just the other day in the supermarket I smelled Hyacinths and thought of my mother. WTF, I don't need all this crap. My T is asking questions about my parents now. Which I find really difficult because their dead and can't defend themselves and because my ego states can't decide on whether to be angry at them or understanding of them. Then there is this whole therapeutic relationship thing going on. I feel all kinds of weird conflicting emotions about that and am trying to weed through those to get at how I really feel about this relationship and why. I just feel pulled in all directions and having a hard time.

I HATE PEOPLE IN GENERAL at this point.

Perna, I would love to go in and sit somewhere else in the office. I said before, that when I feel comfortable enough to sit somewhere else that will be a strong cue that I'm not needing therapy anymore. I've looked around for another seat where I would feel comfortable but there isn't any. If I sit at the other end of the couch I will be too close to my T for comfort. If I sit in the other chair, I be looking at the couch not facing my T. Sometimes I just want to sit on the floor in the remote corner of the room :-)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell13 said:
"You always go back to this." She looks right at me and says, "We are not strangers anymore." I felt like %#@&amp;#!!

I find myself asking yet again, Why, after 8 months of interacting with this woman, do I still want to believe that she has no interest in me other than that I provide income for her? I

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Only 8 months and you are stressing about this? LOL I think it was about 6 months ago (that would the two year mark with my T) that I told him that he knows so much about me, but the therapeutic relationship makes no sense because all I'm doing is disclosing to a stranger. He suddenly looked very sad and said to me, "We have been working together for two years and you still think of me as a stranger?" That was one of the series of "yikes" moments when I actually started to believe that he might have a slight interest in me other than a business client.

The more we keep our T's at a distance-- believe that they couldn't *really* care about us, the easier it is to accept that one day the relationship will end. Also, if we have never been cared about in this manner before, you are going to have a really difficult time accepting it-- that is normal.

Have you discussed this with her?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
MissCharlotte said:
I have a question, regarding the referral to ego states.

I didn't enter into the other thread you guys head going on this but I wonder if it is easier for you to call it by a clinical name (ego states) than to acknowledge that this is parts of yourself. Is it a way to not be intimate with one's self?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">My ego states don't actually push people away--I was joking with McKell, lol (you know, blame it on an ego state!). I allow my excecutive to take full responsibility for that problem! (And the pushing away is not really one of my main issues, anyway). But no, I don't call it a clinical name to try to avoid acknowledging parts of myself. Rather, just the opposite. I use "ego state" because that is the term my T uses, and it helps us communicate if we use the same terminology. The way he and I define ego states (and also in the literature) is that they are a part of my self. All my ego states make up me! I love them all, truly. For me, I have the excecutive, 2 little girls (one of whom we have done substantial healing on), a teen, and an adult male protector. Probably I have a lot more, but those are the most defined "personalities". When I discovered the male, I was kind of freaked, but am coming to terms with acknowledging him. He can be quick to anger when triggered by certain things, and I am watching closely for that. When I do go ballistic, which is highly unlike "me", I have a bit of humor now, thinking oh, there goes the male again. But also, I recognize, through my T's insistence, that I, the executive, have to stay in control. I can't excuse an angry moment by saying, "oh, that's just him again." I run the show here, and defined as he may be, I am in charge--the buck stops with me.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Therapeutic relationship give me a term to use that is more clinical and less confusing to me.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">McKell, to me "therapeutic relationship" isn't a clinical term or distancing (but I can see how some might use it that way), but rather a term that recognizes how special and unique the relationship is.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
WTF, I don't need all this crap.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">McKell, I can totally relate to that! I sometimes feel, here I am, trying to work on this really difficult life transition (divorce) which all of its attendant problems with finances, children, etc., and then my unconscious will throw something else up entirely and I need to try to deal with that too, or squish it down for a rainy day. I often feel like, "I don't need this right now, I'm too busy surviving!"

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
when I feel comfortable enough to sit somewhere else that will be a strong cue that I'm not needing therapy anymore

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Are you sure? Maybe it would just indicate a strong comfort level with your T, and that's when the deep work can really begin.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I HATE PEOPLE IN GENERAL at this point.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">((((McKell))))

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
MissCharlotte said:
I have a question, regarding the referral to ego states.

I didn't enter into the other thread you guys head going on this but I wonder if it is easier for you to call it by a clinical name (ego states) than to acknowledge that this is parts of yourself. Is it a way to not be intimate with one's self? Do we push ourselves away the same way we push others?

Although I do not use the term Ego States (and neither does T) I do include myself in the category of people who struggle with intimacy.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

wow that is a good question - heavy, but good....

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mouse said:
its more like your just trying to withold so as to protect yourself just-in-case there is no-one-else on the other end of the relationship

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
This may be true, I aways like to have a several back up plans in case people don't respond the way I expect them to. As for fantasizing about or idealizing this relationship, I think maybe by continually reminding myself that this is a professional relationship is a way of defending myself against making these mistakes.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Pink said:
The more we keep our T's at a distance-- believe that they couldn't *really* care about us, the easier it is to accept that one day the relationship will end. Also, if we have never been cared about in this manner before, you are going to have a really difficult time accepting it-- that is normal.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

This may be true although when I really look deep, I don't really have worries about when the therapeutic relationship will end. That may be because of how I am mentally treating it. I can honestly say that I am very afraid of the down side that Solairee is going through. Thanks for the NORMAL comment :-)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Have you discussed this with her?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Of course not!!! Well, not until I read your line anyway.
I put some of what I'm experiencing in writing and emailed it to her. She said that it is OK for me to do that and I believe her. I have a lot of work to do this weekend and wanted to try to get this crap out of my head so I can focus on other crap. I'm hoping that by unloading it a bit I will free up some cognitive space to do other work. I warned her that I might cover my ears and head for under her desk if she reads it out loud. Just kidding, I've weather the other readings, this one isn't going to be as bad.

I have a good therapeutic relationship with my T, who I like, who likes me including all of the freaky ego states, and who is NOT a stranger. (What do you think should I post that statement on my bathroom mirror?)

I just need to learn to tolerate things when they get to intense for my liking.
Thanks everyone for straightening me out yet again!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
try to get this crap out of my head so I can focus on other crap.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

LOL. McKell you make me laugh hard sometimes. I think this is what you should post on your mirror. In fact, I think I will post this on my mirror.

In the "for what it's worth" category--when I first became aware of the different parts of me I completely freaked out. It hit me like a ton of bricks and I panicked and placed a call to T. He called back and I pulled over in a Dunkin Donuts parking lot and told him I was changing my name to Sybil. (A reference to the book/movie about a woman with multiple personalities).

It's okay, McKell, you will survive this too.



peace

Miss C, LOL thanks,

I have been able to refocus and work on my dissertation intervention. Unfortunately I'm about ready to throw my laptop in the toilet because I can't get my instructional module to work the way I want it too. This work is aggravating but I get absorbed in it and forget my other worries. Being a workalcoholic can be beneficial at times.