This issue was meant to never be discussed in therapy

I am starting to feel it is fate to never discuss a certain "big" issue for me in therapy. Last November-December I tried without success to bring this issue to therapy. It is hard for me to bring up, and a couple of times, when T was willing to talk about it, we only had 5 minutes left, so I declined because the issue needed more time. He just wanted to talk about the divorce, the divorce, the divorce back then, and finally I just relented and gave up on this issue. It made my life more peaceful to not be worrying about it. One time I even asked T if I could have a special session just to talk about this issue, and he declined (that would have meant 2 sessions in one week, which perhaps he thought was excessive?). So I gave up. I felt like the writing was on the wall.

Now, months later, we had a bit of a lull in the therapy action, I was feeling good, not in need of his strong support. So last session I told him I didn't need a session the following week, and scheduled one for 15 days hence. The next day it occurred to me that now would be the perfect time to talk about "the issue," and I emailed him asking if I could have a session the following week after all, to discuss an important issue that would be helpful to talk about before my next legal meeting. Well, it has been 8 days, so I guess he didn't want to see me this week to discuss this issue. Legal meeting next week, no T session in between.

I think this issue is doomed to never be discussed. It seems like karma, and I should quit my ineffective attempts to bring this issue to the table, because I am never successful. I guess I really need to get a clue and give up. Yeah, and I don't like being ignored by T either, but who knows, maybe he had a death in the family or something and hasn't been answering his email. I was very brief in my email, simply asking if he had any sessions available, and if so, the times. I was not asking for online therapy. Sometimes I just can't figure out the "rules of engagement." I thought he preferred emails to phone calls. Just feeling a little bit ignored.... But I'm not feeling desperately upset. Just kind of like, yeah, whatever.

((((((((((( sunny )))))))))))))
I'd be feeling ignored too, but I'm not sure I'd give up on discussing this issue with T as it seems like you two have a good relationship overall

Hi Sunrise,

I'm sorry you've had trouble getting your topic up for discussion. It sounds to me like it is really important to you. If it were me, I'd follow up your email with a phone call at this point. It's true, as you said, that the therapist might be busy. Maybe their email or computer isn't working too. If you really want to meet, I'd call the therapist. And if you do meet, be clear that you want to meet to discuss this one particular topic.

When going to counseling, or seeing a physician as well - we are in charge. We are paying the fees. The clinician we are seeing are our employees. If the therapist is consistently deciding the topics for discussion, and those are not the topics you think need to be discussed, you have a say about that. I would bring that up with the counselor. You can say, "I appreciate that you want to discuss this topic, but this week, I think it's extremely important for us to discuss Topic B instead. We can resume talking about the other topic on the next visit. This is very important to me, and to our counseling relationship." I think most counselors would appreciate that. If not, then you need to have a discussion with the counselor about why they are not understanding it. It's been my experience, anyway, that if they are consistently avoiding a topic of importance, it can create a lot of confusion and frustration in the working relationship. You two may need to discuss the situation together, and your feelings about it if this has been going on for awhile. If he is still focused on discussing the divorce situation to the exclusion of other topics, then you need better clarification on why this is so. You may need to be bold, but remember - you're in charge! It's your right. Your therapist is your employee during your session time. If you're not discussing the topic you think needs to be discussed, then you need to change the topic.

Hope it all gets worked out.

Take care,
ErinBear

Sunise, the last time i had a big thing happening, i had emailed the contents to t. Then she had to move my appointment to sat because monday was a holiday. I called and asked if I could add time to the session for that one time because knowing me, i put off the important things until the last 5 minutes. she said fine.

sure enough, i didn't talk about it within the hour and was soooo glad for the extra half i had asked for.

is there any way you might be able to do that? Emailing the issue gets it out and away from you and in to the hands of someone who can help. then you don't have to spend your minutes telling him the background.

can you ask for just extra time one session?

(((((((((((((((sunrise))))))))))))))

(( sunny ))

I think at this point I'd have to turn the tables on him and ask him why he seems to be feeling resistance to this topic. And I'd have to talk about the frustration around trying to get it into the discussion and how I felt about T's responses. Ask him if he thinks your wanting to talk about this is some kind of avoidance of some of the divorce / legal stuff.

Or walk into next session and tell him that "this" is what you'll be talking about today. If he wants to talk about something else then he can schedule an extra session for that.

It just sounds very frustrating to be heard, but not heard.

can you send him an email saying what you said in your post?

I would not assume that he is avoiding returning your email. I remember once right after my abuse issue unexpectedly surfaced in therapy. I was shell shocked and shut down and refused to talk about it. A day later I was a mess and wanted to talk. I emailed my T for an appointment. In my message mentioned that I was struggling and if possible wanted an earlier appoint. The email went unanswered and this sent me off the deep end for next two weeks. All kinds of thing went through my head during this time. I almost didn't go back. When I did go back my T blew off my email and by saying, "I got your email message but I had no earlier appointment available." Maybe my level of distress was not adequately conveyed in my email, then again maybe it was. If my T had responded, I would have been balling like a baby and likely a lot more dependent on her. I think sometimes things happen for a reason. Maybe the delay in addressing this issue serves some purpose.

Sunrise if this issue is important to you then keep raising it. You will eventually get it resolved.

Thanks all, for the responses. They all sound so reasonable and like this should be straightforward and easy. I don't know why I can't make it so.

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I'd follow up your email with a phone call at this point

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">That seems logical, but no, I can't call him. He is off work until Monday, so wouldn't get the message until then at the earliest. He often doesn't answer his phone messages for several days anyway, so it is just too late. The legal meeting is early next week and I needed to discuss this topic before then. I had all this week to get a session with him but I didn't. So it's just too bad for me. Thwarted again. It would have been so helpful. It is just a hard topic to bring up. Now the window of opportunity is past. It won't do me much good to discuss this later, after the meeting. As for emailing him again, he doesn't check emails when he is not working, so the soonest he would see it is Monday, and that is too late. Plus, I never email again if I have not received a response. He received the email and knows I wanted a session. I do not respond unless he does. I'm not going to nag, plus there is no time for a session now, so there is no point to emailing.

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I think at this point I'd have to turn the tables on him and ask him why he seems to be feeling resistance to this topic.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">ECHOES, when I emailed him I asked him for a session this week to discuss an important topic before the meeting. I did not tell him what the topic was so he doesn't know. He is not so fixated on the divorce now, so I felt I could have brought this topic to session and he would have discussed it. If I could have gotten a session... He just didn't want me to have a session this week, or wasn't able to give me one, for whatever reason--maybe he went out of town unexpectedly. Who knows.

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You may need to be bold, but remember - you're in charge! It's your right. Your therapist is your employee during your session time. If you're not discussing the topic you think needs to be discussed, then you need to change the topic.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I thought I was being bold by asking for a session to discuss this important topic. If I could have gotten a session with him, I definitely would have discussed it. Oh, well.

I'm kind of fed up with the whole thing. The bottom line is T let me down. I don't like that. He will be at the meeting next week so I'll see him then, then later in the week I have a session. Seriously, I know it is acting out, but I am tempted to cancel the therapy session. I've never done that, but I feel if he can't be bothered to answer my email and give me a session when I say it's "important" (I have NEVER said that to him before and I am not the sort of person who cries wolf), then I can't be bothered to show up for therapy with him next week. If he mentions the email at the meeting and has an excuse (a d*mn good one), then all will be well. My prediction is he will not mention it, perhaps just for professional reasons. (He is not my T at the meetings, so that would be mixing roles.) I just feel really let down--I expected better from him. He is just a hired gun, after all, and one that doesn't perform the administrative tasks of his job very well (answering emails, phone calls).

I know I am overreacting to this. I am tired and cranky after a long day, hosting a big party, preparing food for everyone, making small talk with strangers (very taxing for an introvert), cleaning up, etc. In this state, I am more upset about everything, including this T thing. I hope I will be able to put this into perspective after a good night's sleep.

Thanks, chaotic13.

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chaotic13 said:
I would not assume that he is avoiding returning your email.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I think it is more that he couldn't be bothered to respond.

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chaotic13 said:
When I did go back my T blew off my email and by saying, "I got your email message but I had no earlier appointment available."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">It's rude to not respond by simply emailing back and saying, "I have no appointments available. See you the week after next." They should respond and let you know the situation with their schedule. Just common courtesy. Believe me, if T tells me he couldn't be bothered to email me back because he had no sessions available (which I know not to be true as I had seen him less than 24 hours earlier and he had quite a few openings), then I would certainly tell him I don't appreciate being treated so rudely. I do not think that is it at all. My best case scenario is that my poor ADD T read my email, meant to respond to it, and did not, and it got buried under dozens of newer incoming messages. Then he started working on something else, his train of thought was lost, and voila, no response to Sunny! And then it's too late to do anything, anyway. That's my charitable interpretation. I guess I just want to be important enough to him that he will respond when I email him. But I guess I'm not.

I am not a needy client. I rarely call or email my T, and never for therapy/support, only for logistics. I do not ask for more than one session a week. I play by the rules. So this one time I mention that something is "important" to me and I get ignored. I had better not express any needs in the future.

Sorry for all the whining, guys.

I know this issue is close to you, and perhaps you really aren't seeing things in quite the actual perspective?

Emails get lost sometimes. T's aren't perfect. T did say he was interested, didn't he? (My error if not.)

I think it's just a bunch of unconnected circumstances, and that once this particular set of situations is passed, you can get on with discussing the issue you want to now.

Thanks, Sky.
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_Sky said:
Emails get lost sometimes. T's aren't perfect.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I know he's not perfect, and that's my best case scenario (see above)--that he simply lost track of the message. I guess it is just upsetting to me because I feel that I never ask him for anything, and this one time I do, he doesn't come through for me. Yeah, he's human, I just wish he didn't have to show his failings at the moment when I needed him!

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T did say he was interested, didn't he? (My error if not.)

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">No, he has never said that. But I think he is a good enough T to discuss topics with his clients even if they are not interesting to him.

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I think it's just a bunch of unconnected circumstances, and that once this particular set of situations is passed, you can get on with discussing the issue you want to now.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Unfortunately, I believe the window of opportunity for discussing this issue has passed. Sigh. Like I said, this was the topic that was not meant to be discussed, because it never works out that we discuss it. I am thinking it is just fate and I need to yield to it.

Thanks for the hugs, Sky, and your tolerance for my irrationality. It is rare for me to allow myself to wallow in distorted thinking, but I'm really having a field day with this. I just have to let it run its course, I think, and get some sleep.

I appreciate being able to come here and dump. It is good to have a place like that. Thank you, PC.

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The bottom line is T let me down. I don't like that.
I know I am overreacting to this.

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I had these exact same feeling and thoughts when I emailed my T. I also thought stuff like... she is deliberately avoiding me... she doesn't want to deal with me and this problem... she knows she's sucked me in and now is slamming the door in my face... In my mind I had asked for her to care for me and was DENIED! I remember being both really angry and also feeling really stupid for wanting her attention and support so badly. And even worse, because I had expected her to be there for me and she wasn't. This was VERY difficult for me, especially because realized that I was vulnerable to being hurt by her. I'm kind of glad now though that I learned this lesson.

Sunrise, I really hope after a good night sleep your mind will settle and you will see a path to navigate through this issue.

You've previously posted that you have trouble venting your anger. Can you allow yourself to be angry at your T for not being attentive to you? Vent it by pommeling your sparing partner tomorrow. Then when you are totally exhausted maybe you will get some new insight into your problem.

> Thanks all, for the responses. They all sound so reasonable and like this should be straightforward and easy. I don't know why I can't make it so.

why, because it is happening to YOU, of course. it is easy to figure what to do in situations that involve OTHER PEOPLE. when it is happening to US then it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT - of course.

i'm wondering about sending him your initial post. how come? because it clearly states how you feel he has avoided your talking about this and you are starting to feel like he doesn't want you to. maybe... that is the most important thing to clear up?

1) does he think it wouldn't be a good idea for you to talk about this?

it might be that he is unintentionally avoiding... it might be that he is intentionally avoiding... it would be doing my head in until i knew which...

Sunrise, Your T declined you having an extra session to discuss what is apparently important to you? I'd be pissed!! I say, go kick arse gal!!!

This sounds like a difficult issue that your only comfortable bring into your mind when you feel most secure.

Your T does not seem to know this big issue is looming and it's covered by the improvement he see's on the outside.

I am not sure you will succeed if you only bring this issue forth during a strong time. You may have the safety of keeping it contained but at the same time this containment may have a residual effect.

It can be hard to accept that it is okay to let it out. Here is an excerpt from a book I am reading that makes me think of your situation

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"Acknowledging The Truth of Our Experience pg 58 Mindful Therapy by Thomas Bien, Ph.D.

Normally we are so busy evaluating and judging, planning the future or reworking the past, that we do not experience what is here. We confuse what is here with that we wish were here, or what we fear. Every experience is colored by the basic decision of whether we like having this experience, or don't like having it. If we don't like it, we may well try to distort our perception in order to avoid the pain of having this undesirable experience. We try not to notice; we tell ourselves it is something good; we distort and evade. This is a kind of lying to ourselves. If we like it, we get caught by wanting more of it or fearing it will not last.

When we are calm and mindful, we come to see what is really there. Of course, not everything goes as smoothly or easily as we wish. But ultimately that what is there is wonderful, because to be alive itself is wonderful. And when we stop resisting, things often seem to flow more harmoniously. "

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Hi Sunrise,

I'm hoping you can indeed get in touch with your T one way or another, by email or phone. It sounds to me like your desire to discuss this issue is growing, not decreasing, and also it might help to talk about your working relationship with your T. I'm wondering if you might be feeling frustrated or angry with your T. It's hard to talk about those things in the working relationship, but it can help to get it out on the table.

My thoughts are sure with you....it sounds like a hard time....please take extra-good care of yourself.

Thinking of you,
ErinBear

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ECHOES, when I emailed him I asked him for a session this week to discuss an important topic before the meeting. I did not tell him what the topic was so he doesn't know. He is not so fixated on the divorce now, so I felt I could have brought this topic to session and he would have discussed it. If I could have gotten a session... He just didn't want me to have a session this week, or wasn't able to give me one, for whatever reason--maybe he went out of town unexpectedly. Who knows.

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Oh I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought he knew why you were asking for the session. ... Still you did say it was important and you wanted to discuss it before the meeting. Yes I think he could let you know one way or the other. I can't imagine he would just not reply at all if he had no time available; that doesn't sound like him in the way you've described him. I think there must be some other explanation.

It is so hard, deciding finally to talk about something and then not having the opportunity to talk about it. But it will wait for you and T. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about; it's going to be patient and wait for the optimal time when T is fully available.

T's aren't perfect, T's make mistakes, T's lose their emails and their minds with all the stuff they have to do, blah, blah... then you end up thinking you are overreacting...

Don't invalidate your feelings. You have every right to feel hurt, ignored, pissed, whatever. Sure, T's make mistakes-- but that doesn't preclude our feeling angry or hurt as a result.

Examples:

I called my pdoc two weeks ago because of a negative reaction I had to a medication. I never heard from him. Spoke to him last night. He said, "I had been trying to call you and couldn't get in touch, so I called T-- didn't he tell you?"

No.

So I'm sure my T forgot because we were talking about a million other things, but I'm pretty annoyed that he didn't tell me. This is important and he's always the one who is on my *** about making sure that I contact pdoc.

Last week I forgot to fill out a psych eval. for one of my clients. Now she has to wait an extra week. I felt really bad about it, but I simply forgot because we got involved in other things (I fill out the psych evals with the clients present). I made a mistake. Does she have a right be annoyed at me? She sure does.

This post just got me thinking about emotional entitlement. That's why I provided examples from both persepectives. Of course T's make mistakes. I think the importance is in our behavioral response to the mistakes. We are allowed to feel hurt, annoyed, abandoned... whatever. Then we can choose how to behave. Sunny, I can totally understand you wanting to cancel the next appointment. That would be one option. I know that I have gone down the "acting out" route many times. (However, I too pathetic to actually cancel an appointment, so I just threaten, lol). Then there are other options-- tell him your feelings, ask what the hell happened, etc. I think we grow through our reactions to negative feelings... but it starts with the acceptance that it is okay to feel them.

Thank you, everyone. Mouse, your post last night cheered me up, lol.

Posting in this thread and reading everyone's responses has made me understand this whole thing a lot better. I realize now there are two issues. First, that there is this important issue I wanted to discuss, and had previously wanted to discuss and not been able to, and I felt thwarted because of this. My anxiety increased because I will now have to go to the meeting "unprepared." Second, that my T did not return my email when I really needed him too, when I told him I had this important thing I wanted to discuss and could I see him the following week after all.

For the first issue, I am feeling I have moved on. Discussing this issue with T and dealing with it would have been enormously helpful to me if it had occurred before my legal meeting. But I didn't get a chance to do that because I couldn't get a session, so no use crying over spilt milk. I can't discuss this issue in time for the meeting, and it won't help me to discuss it later. So, end of story. No need to bring this up with T since he can't go back in time and help me with it.

The second issue turns out to be what really is bugging me--that T ignored (whether intentionally or unintentionally) my request for a session when I really needed it, when it would have been so helpful, when I actually said it was "important." The fact that a number of people's responses here keyed in on #1 made me realize it is #2 that is causing me difficulty! Pinksoil, your post was so "right on" as it cut to the core of this whole thing. Not only did you zero in on the main cause of my source of anger and anxiety, but you also helped validate my emotional response. (Maybe you should be a T!) What I am feeling is not about the "issue", it is about T letting me down.

T's lack of response reinforced the behavior I have learned all my life, that it is better not to ever let anyone know what you need or want or what is important to you, because they will let you down, you will make yourself vulnerable, and you will be hurt. The one time I ask him for something "important," and he is not there. Through therapy, I have been trying to break this pattern of not letting others know about my wants and needs, and this incident seems to have set me way back. I was learning to tell T what I needed. Now I am back to not wanting to do that with anyone. I feel confused and now am doubting that this should even be a goal for myself.

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T's lack of response reinforced the behavior I have learned all my life, that it is better not to ever let anyone know what you need or want or what is important to you, because they will let you down, you will make yourself vulnerable, and you will be hurt. The one time I ask him for something "important," and he is not there. Through therapy, I have been trying to break this pattern of not letting others know about my wants and needs, and this incident seems to have set me way back. I was learning to tell T what I needed. Now I am back to not wanting to do that with anyone. I feel confused and now am doubting that this should even be a goal for myself.

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Sunrise,

I think this is a powerful statement and one that deserves to be brought to T's attention. Sometimes in therapy we inadvertently re-create painful patterns of the past. It's unconscious on both our parts. I think the fact that you noticed it is a sign of growth. So go ahead and let T in on it--I bet he doesn't know. Keep working it through and don't give up.

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I am not a needy client. I rarely call or email my T, and never for therapy/support, only for logistics.

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I thought this was a very telling statement. Do you equate being a needy client with negativity? Could you possibly think that if you bring this up now that will qualify you as a "needy" client?

Are needy clients less deserving of return calls or e-mails? What exactly does needy mean? Is it bad to need contact with others? Just food for thought.

It sound like you are doing good work here. I think he should be informed about your let down. You are worth it and your relationship deserves to be enriched by telling.

I'd bring the issue up next session, wouldn't ask his "permission" or if he wants to discuss it, etc.; he's "working" for you and should be working on what you want to work on? I'm sorry you didn't think of it until after you made the appointment for further down the pike. I think like Sky says though that it's mostly just disjoined circumstances as to why you all haven't connected when you've needed to.

I don't know; if he seems less than thrilled with discussing the issue I'd maybe hire someone else for a few sessions to discuss it with them, especially if it is not about the divorce/others but "your" issue.

Hi Perna, it's a moot point now. I wanted to discuss the issue before our legal meeting. I was unable to so there is no point in discussing it with T in the future. This was a "time-sensitive issue." As I mentioned, I've moved on from stressing about that since there's nothing I can do to make it possible for me and T to go back in time and take care of this. What I came to understand from reading and responding to the posts here was that what is actually more important to me is that T didn't respond to me the one time I told him I needed him for something "important." Good to see you here again.

MissCharlotte, thanks for your insights. I can tell you get what is going on with me and it is always so wonderful to be understood. I think you are right, T doesn't know I am recreating a lifelong pattern in therapy with this incident--the pattern of reacting to rejection by severely withdrawing. I guess that is one thing we are supposed to use therapy for--to recreate entrenched patterns of behavior so we can work on changing them.

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Are needy clients less deserving of return calls or e-mails? What exactly does needy mean?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">MissCharlotte, no, I don't think "needy" clients shouldn't receive return calls. I guess what I was thinking was that a needy client--by which I meant one who puts frequent demands on T's time outside of session, such as by emailing and calling a lot--often gets return calls. Maybe a T would return 90% of such a client's calls/messages. But for me, who has been very respectful of my T's boundaries, and not made demands on his time outside of session, it was the one time I wanted him to respond because I told him it was "important", and he didn't, so my response rate is a miserable 0%. I guess I felt since I don't make lots of demands on him, the one time I did, he could respond. (This is not to say I don't believe that people who are frequently contacting their T shouldn't be--their T's clearly have different boundaries.) Come to think of it, there was one other time that I sent him something substantive in an email (beyond logistics) and he didn't respond to that either. (I sent him an article he had requested and wrote a paragraph about the parts I felt were significant and how they related to my situation.) Perhaps by not responding he is trying to gently tell me not to communicate with him outside of session. If he doesn't respond, I can save face by not having to have him reprimand me, and the behavior will be extinguished. If he responded, the behavior would be reinforced. I think the behavior has been extinguished.

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I think the behavior has been extinguished.

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(((sunrise)))

I wouldn't like to be reprimanded. But I don't know, being left to infer what his boundaries are isn't fun either. When I first wrote my T a letter I worried a lot about if I was breaking some therapy rule. When she didn't respond to it, I got really confused and the worry increased. When I finally when back for the next session, I couldn't stand not know what her rules were and ended up asking her point blank, "Can I write you things?"

Maybe in your next session you can ask him something like: If I have a pressing issue that I would like to discuss with you in a timely manner, what is the best way for me to convey this and get a response from you?

Sunny you know I've been in this spot and it hasn't been pretty for me.

It seems maybe you might be trying to be too careful or something. Don't worry about breaking a therapy rule...express what you need to him, you deserve that.

I agree with chaotic too ask him specifically about how he could address a pressing matter when needed.

Hang in there...

(((sunrise))) Did you talk to your T? Pls do! He gave you his phone number (and email?). You need to know why he didnt reply to you. be sure you get a reasonable answer. You deserve it. Big hug,