[Hub_77]

Hello all,

I am new here, and wanted to just sound everyone about something that is really irritating, worrying, and making me sad a lot. My wife and I have been married for under 5 months, she's 7 years my junior, i know she loves me dearly and so do I. The issue is about her approach to things. Right now, we are going through a lot of change, new country, I am just transitioning after a master's to the real world, etc etc. So its hard on both of us, and being younger, I guess its fair she has a harder time and possibly less ability to be a true partner to me. Also, I think I have expectation issues, I expect too much or have specific expectations of her, which when not met, obviously cause disappointment and frustration for me.

Anyway, so my question is, how do I tell my wife, that I feel she's not there for me in my darkest hour, that i want her to stand by me all the time and be my true partner in life. She seems very aloof, and immature, for her, a cuddle some baby talk, is all she seems to be able to offer and this really doesn't satisfy me in anyway. For example, I have to get a new license, and I am busy with job searching, finishing my thesis etc, but she did not take any initiative to help me with the license matter. My expectation was for her to look up the info and maybe call the place and tell me here's what you have to do, instead, after I tell her to check on the license details, she emails me the phone number...does not have the initiative, or is just simply too lazy to make that call. It goes on and on, we live with her cousins, until we settle down, and we both like to move about, and i've made comments a few times about finding our way to the library...she has yet to budge, so finally last night I stopped all my work and looked at the local maps etc. We are both new to this country so its not like I know more about the area. The only thing she does religiously is call her mom and gossip about her relatives etc etc, nothing indepth about our life either, and then lots of facebook time checking her friends pictures.

I asked her the other day if she can help me track the job listings I have identified...so it keeps me accountable etc...she said sure...but its been 2 days she's forgotten and that's it. She always asks what she can do to help, but I am tired of telling her specifics, i.e., i feel (i guess my problem?) that she should THINK a bit, take some INITIATIVE about OUR life and do some stuff??? Am I being unreasonable? Am I really messed up that I am expecting too much of her?

I am afraid to bring this up as it might make her feel really bad about herself...so I keep it to myself, and then have the occasional blow up, no yeling or anything, just shut myself off from her for a bit because I am so hurt and annoyed.

thanks for listening.

it sounds as if you and your wife are undergoing a ton of changes in life and that is certainly stressful for both of you: getting married, moving to a new country, finishing school and job hunting--those are all huge changes in and of themselves! maybe just realizing that will help a little? rather than telling your wife she is not supportive enough, which will come off as critical, why not turn it around and make an "I" statement. for instance, something like "I would like more support". also, it sounds as if you need to talk about expectations in your relationship. you have an expectation that she is going to help you with things you want done, but it sounds like she expects you to do those things yourself. i think once you air your expectations then you can come up with something that works for both of you. our expectations can be largely shaped by what roles we saw modeled to us by our parents. if your mom was really supportive of your dad in the daily things like you speak of, then it's natural you'd expect that from your wife. her parents may not have interacted that way though. maybe her dad was more independent and if he wanted something he did it himself rather than asking for his wife's help. neither way is right or wrong but you guys just have to figure out what works for you.

Don't take this wrong, but why is it her job to call about your lisence or look for job openings? This is your profession and your job; you really can't be upset with her for not doing things for you YOUR way. If this is an expectation you have, then write down specifically what information you want her to get for you. Do not expect her to just figure it out. She probably doesn't really have a clue exactly what you need unless she is in the same profession. Personally, I'd be telling my husband to take control of that aspect of his life on his own. I wouldn't dream of expecting my husband to delve into the job-finding aspect of my own profession.

You are in a new country. Have you worked at making a life of mutuality together? Found places to go out? Churches if that's your vein? Friends? That's what you need to be doing together. Work on building those things together. Sounds like that is what she needs if she's spending a lot of time talking to friends. She's lonely. Shutting yourself down around her is not going to help. Open up and do things TOGETHER, and I'm not talking about finding you a job.

[NuckingFutz]

How did you two communicate while dating? Did she actively listen to you and provide support? How did you coordinate the move to a new country together? When did her not meeting your needs start to become apparent? Have you asked her what she sees her role as your wife is? Build from there... I have read about a lot of different marriages on here and have seen them work or not work... Everything from arranged marriages to couples who grew up together. Expectations varied widely, more than I ever could have imagined. But when talking to the long timers, they say the same thing. Your a team now, you both have to figure out what works for you two as a couple... Marriages are built over lifetimes, they are living growing things. You have to work at them to make it work. Some discussions are very difficult but communications need to stay open but shutting her out or vice versa won't get you want to be. keep posting. I hope this place can be of great support right now. You seem so disappointed with your new wife.

[Hub_77]

Short note to thank everyone for the comments and helpful tips and thoughts, greatly appreciated. Lots to think about. I have tried and will continue to try to be stronger and do things by myself, but, maybe the examples I used are not the best, the job search is mine and i should be on top of that, so is getting my drivers license. I've felt overwhelmed and alone, and not feeling comforted by the one I love and do everything for...that hurts more than anything else.

We do go out etc, we are staying with her relatives so she has a social support network, she has more friends in this country than me, I go to church so she has that support as well...so at times I feel I do all this for her, and feel she can't just at minimum comfort me. Maybe i need to be stronger and not expect strength from my partner/wife? Goes back to expectations. I will try to talk to her one of these days...is it best to practice what I will say or speak from the heart? Although I fear speaking from the heart/mind might end up hurting her too much. I don't want to be hurt, annoyed or anything by her, I love her intensely, she's really a very loving person.

Take care, and thanks for the thoughts again.

[Pomegranate]

When you want your wife to do something for you, you should communicate it to her very directly and in detail. But ASK her for her help, do not demand it.

You are entitled to your own expectations of what a marital relationship should be. But this needs to be explained and talked about BEFORE you get married, ideally. But the sooner you have these kinds of conversations with her the better. Talk about your feelings, expectations & goals for the future, and ask what hers are. She is not a mind reader, nor are you. Communication is very important.

No one can be another person's "everything." We are all in this world alone. We can share, we can communicate, we can live together. But still we each, as human beings, experience life from our own unique perspective & experience. We can expect that we will let others down no matter how much we love them. Just as others will let us down no matter how much they love us. None of us are perfect, no two people are always on the same wavelength at the same time.

[shezbut]

Hi Hub_77

I definitely agree with Pomegranate regarding communication. It is vital throughout your entire relationship. Be sure to let your wife know how you feel, what you think, etc. and communicate effectively. But do not make personal attacks. You have both gone through major changes ~ big stressors for everyone ~ and should work towards getting through these challenges together.

As Pomegranate said, individualism is also very important. (un)Fortunately, it is a fact of life. That is very hard for some people (like myself ) to accept. But it is very true. While you are in love with your wife, and want to spend almost all of your time with her, you both need to hold onto a little bit of yourselves. It can be very easy to lose your identity ~ which can cause a lot of resentment and other negative emotions. The individualism allows you both to continue to grow, and your marriage, which is very healthy and necessary.

I wish you and your wife the best. Take care!

[Hub_77]

Thanks a lot to Pomegranate and Chez for your thoughts. Lot to think about, feel overwhelmed and not sure where to start. Had a rather bad day, went out today to spend the day downtown, ended up getting into a mood and made it unpleasant for both of us. I think I might be depressed with all the other stress factors and looking at the negatives of my wife along with everything else.

Yes, I agree communication is essential, I've had a few chats several times earlier, on somewhat similar lines and she has ended up crying and saying she is not caring enough etc...so now I am very reluctant to approach anything along these lines thinking she will blame herself again.

Is it possible to mentally shut down expectations you have of others? I just thought today that maybe everytime I feel I wish she did this or similar to count to 20 so I get the thought out of my head?

I guess bottom line, I am afraid to confront her, thinking she will feel its her fault, even if I phrase it using an "I feel" phrase. I fear Shezbut might be correct, I may be starting to habor resentment and negative emotions towards her, I've started to feel, i've done so so much, and continue to worry about her well being...and I don't get anything in return (at times it feels like it).

I sometimes wonder if she cannot internalize things, and think for her self...b'coz it feels like I need to tell, spell everything out for her. Since I am busy with the job hunt and some other matters, I've asked a few times for her to take lead on household matters - before anyone jumps here assuming i expect mywife to be subserviant, nope, this it not what I mean, I cook, actually, i cook more than her, I do my own laundry, clean up, actaually, I arrange the bed 9 out of 10 times and clean the living area as she doesn't seem to care, or have the initiative to do so. Regaridng a comment made about a license or job search, it was actually a drivers license so nothign technical was involved, and the job search, was just to put together an excel sheet...no technical or professional views were needed there. I don't know...its easy to get into this negative frame of mind isn't it? So getting back to household matters, simply just being on top of planning for groceries, (not for her to go and shop, I'll go with her of course, but to get a list going or something), maybe initiate or say 'hey' lets clean the living area'...(and i'll do it with her, not want her to slave away at cleaning...I am not that kind of a person), or say, lets make a pasta today...(and i'll even make the ****** pasta..). In all those instances, I need to take the initiative and say lets do x, y,z,,,and even then she doesn't contribute...so I feel so alone!!

I am sorry if this post was a bit agressive or I don't know. Thanks to everyone for listening, sharing, and your thoughts. I really badly want to be madly in love with her and make her laugh and smile, it makes me so sad to see her sad b'coz of me.

hub, what about meeting with your pastor together or a therapist? it does sound like you need help in communicating with her so she doesn't just go into self-blame but not change anything. have you two come up with a division of chores? if not, that might be an easy place to start. sounds like you guys need some basic marital help and i think even an older married couple could help you out. i have to admit it sounds like you do expect her to help you a lot with your personal stuff if you're asking her for help with job searching and a car license since those are both things for you. does she work, go to school, or do you have kids? what does she plan on doing with herself?

[NuckingFutz]

Man, you have been patient with her. You can count the number of times she has made dinner for the 2 of you by herself on one hand...it has been like this the whole marriage...you are more domestic than she is...you never needed her to be able to be emotionally supportive in a mature way and you have been slowly awakened to her shortcomings and there are just so many reminders of this everyday that it hurts so much...is this right? Let me know if I got it right before I chime in on this one. Because if I got it right, this...just let me know.

[AAAAA]

I've been married a long time and I've learned a few things along the way. I understand that with this medium it's sometimes difficult to verbalize what you mean. In the examples you gave, and statement you made, it sounds like you want someone to pick up the work load when you get tired/overwhelmed. Sometimes a partner can do these things for you. BUT you need to be very clear WHEN you need help and WHAT you'd like your partner to do.

Your post is very vague. I do not mean this as an insult, it's an observation. It makes me wonder if YOU know what YOU want her to do. If you're unsure, how in the heck is she supposed to know? Before you "confront" her, make sure you know what it is you want from her.

You sound very resentful. It would be very easy in this situation to let your frustration/stress from the move/marriage/life transition be projected onto her for slights either real or imagined.

We humans do not have the ability to read minds. My husband and I have been together for nearly 30 years, he can finish my sentences. We can communicate huge amounts of information with a mere look... HOWEVER just because I think he should know something doesn't mean he can be held accountable if I've never told him.

A small example: to me doing the dishes means washing the dishes, cleaning off all the counter tops, table, sweeping the floor, cleaning out the sink when you're finished and taking out the trash. For YEARS I would get annoyed because when I'd ask him to do the dishes, he'd just wash the dishes. I would storm out into the kitchen and angrily do the rest, then remain angry with him because he didn't do the job properly. He should have known (in my mind) the rest was included but guess what, he didn't until I told him.

The last sentence in your original post speaks volumes. I know you mention that she's a bit younger than you, but "shutting yourself off from her for a bit because I am hurt and annoyed" is very passive aggressive. It's childish, hurtful and most importantly it doesn't help either of you. I speak from experience, this was the tool I used most frequently in the early years of my marriage. Believe me when I say this is a HUGE waste of time and it doesn't help getting any of your needs met. If you want this (or any) relationship to work, break that cycle NOW.

[VickiesPath]

Hi Hub,

I read that you have only been married 5 months and have moved to a new country and have recently transitioned from earning a masters degree and are in a job search. Those are a LOT of changes. Any one of those alone would require many, MANY adjustments for each of you individually, let alone as a couple and/or going through all of them at the same time. It is not surprising that you are experiencing difficulties defining roles.

Question: Are you and your wife from different social backgrounds? Did your wife customarily do the type of things you are requesting her to do before the two of you were married? In other words, are you asking her to do things that she does know how to do but is simply choosing not to do or has she in that past relied upon paid domestic help to do? Can you come up with a rational explanation as to why your requests for help from her are being mostly ignored? I know you are having feelings of frustration and other emotional responses due to her not helping you, but if you could put those feelings aside for a moment, can you think of any reasons why she is not doing what you ask?

Several thoughts have entered my mind. Some of them may be totally wrong or way out of line. But I will say them simply for consideration.

1) If your wife comes from a home life where there was domestic help, she may feel inadequate or have an aversion to doing household "chores" or duties. She may feel that it is beneath her or even that the skills she has are not adequate. Did you have domestic help growing up?

2) As a new bride, she may feel that she has many inadequacies. Is it possible that you are a bit of a perfectionist and she may feel intimidated by your demands and not even want to try to please you?

3) Is it possible that she is simply too imature to realize that she has entered into an adult relationship and it comes with adult duties, such as cleaning house, preparing meals, and assisting you in your initial efforts to become the breadwinner in the family (primary income producer)?

I agree that the communication between the two of you must improve but am not sure that it will without the assistance of a therapist. This is a very difficult time for both of you and it would be very helpful if you could seek the help of a therapist or minister to get through these issues.

I wish you much luck.

[Hub_77]

Originally Posted by NuckingFutz

Man, you have been patient with her. You can count the number of times she has made dinner for the 2 of you by herself on one hand...it has been like this the whole marriage...you are more domestic than she is...you never needed her to be able to be emotionally supportive in a mature way and you have been slowly awakened to her shortcomings and there are just so many reminders of this everyday that it hurts so much...is this right? Let me know if I got it right before I chime in on this one. Because if I got it right, this...just let me know.

Yep, that sums up most of it Nuckingfutz. Someone on a thread had said I a passive aggressive b'coz I stay silent when I am annoyed...is being silent equall to being passive aggressive? I never asked her to do anything or attempted to get her to do anything, just stayed quiet so I internalize the issue.

[MissE1088]

i think u are expecting too much of her. i dont care what others say on this, sounds like you two are very different people and have different lives and expectations. i know this because this is how me and my fiance are, it doesnt mean u cant live happily together. if u love a person with all your heart and want no one else in life then u guys should be together, and i think that because you are so successful and have much initiative doesnt mean you should be dissapointed that your wifey isn't the same. you love her, that is that. the end. dont expect SO MUCH from her!! its ur life u are stressing about , not hers!

[perpetuallysad]

I can understand your frustration, but I can guess that she may be feeling a little weird too. You say you've moved to another country? That's got to be incredibly stressful. You've only been married a few months, you've just graduated, you don't have a job, there's an age difference (this is a minimal deal to me, my husband and I are seven years apart and other than the songs we listened to in high school, this causes no great discrepancy in either of our maturity levels). It seems like maybe she's more of a laid back type person and you are more of a go getter. There's nothing wrong with either type of person, and they can actually compliment each other. If you are more about doing the household stuff, you cannot really get mad at her because she doesn't like that sort of thing. ANd you say you are living with her relatives, so she may be uncomfortable about messing with their things. It could be that you've created a situation where she knows you will clean and cook, so she doesn't feel she has to. Somehow along the line that situation has fallen out with me and my husband, I do most of the domestic stuff and he's the one who works outside of the home. He's never said I have to do the domestic stuff, but I just do. If I don't do things, they may sit around for a day or so, then he'll realize its something I'm not going to do, forgot to do, whatever and he'll do it himself. Maybe she doesn't see an area of slack where she feels she needs to pick up. If you already take care of everything, she may not feel like she's needed to do anything, especially if you are super on the ball about getting things done. If you clean up everyday when you get up in the morning, then she never even has the chance to see the things maybe need to be done by her. I don't know, I'm just talking off the top of my head here, but I do think that maybe you have some expectations that aren't being met, not because she's intentionally not doing the things, but because you haven't expressed a real desire to share the chores.

As far as the work thing goes, maybe she doesn't want to do the spreadsheet for you? That's very reasonable. Unless my husband specifically asked me and laid out how he wanted things done, I wouldn't do the spreadsheet either. It would also matter to me the way he asked, if it was something he just expected me to do and sort of demanded it, it would NEVER happen. (He's not like that though.) But if he was genuinely overwhelmed and needed help, I would help the best I could. She may see that it seems you are taking care of everything yourself, so she really isn't needed to help. Maybe she doesn't even know how to do whatever it is you are expecting? Maybe she doesn't feel like she should be the one doing your job search stuff?

[AAAAA]

It was I that suggested you're being passive aggressive. If you're being silent as a form of punishment or manipulation then yes it is passive aggressive. You described it as "the occasional blow up". There is a HUGE difference between taking time to collect your thoughts and cool off and the silent treatment.

I understand your situation very well. Within a 10 month period I graduated from High School, got married, had a baby, and moved to a foreign country where I did not speak the language. I left a small town that I were I was literally related to everyone either by birth or marriage and all the friends and relatives I'd seen every day of my life. This was during the dark ages, no internet. We could only call home once a month because that single collect call ran over $200. Our economic situation and the culture we were in were completely new and unexpected.

I resented my husband very much at that time. The people our age that he worked with were all single. He had a new network of friends and I only had him and our son.

What I'm telling you is this, you're in an over whelming situation. In the best of circumstance it would be overwhelming, you're not in the best situation. You have the added stress of living with family members that alone is enough to put a person over the edge. You're unemployed, another mock 10 situation, newly married, etc. Each thing alone is enough to put so much stress on your marriage that it will collapse. I count six relationship destroyers and I don't even know you.

You're focusing on what you feel she's doing wrong. Until you decide what you need from her specifically and whether these expectations are realistic she'll fall short of your expectations every time. This is YOUR issue. I WAS you.

Try to look at it from another point of view. If she came to you about the jobs immediately would you see it as nagging? Suggesting you should be doing more? Could she be trying to give you space to lessen your frustration? I've lived with family members, being a buffer between them and your husband is a full time job. It's an awkward situation.

The following will come out harsh, and that truly is not my intent so please take it in the spirit in which it's given. Reading your post it sounds like you're looking for a secretary/assistant not a wife. But I can see that these were simply situations that you felt overwhelmed. In my opinion you're projecting that frustration onto your wife.

[NuckingFutz]

Okay, now we have established that you are seeing that she is not what you expected she would be after you married. Just for information purposes, when you were dating and you started have have serious feelings for her, did you start to observe how she was and how you could predict and or communicate with her in a lifetime relationship such as marriage? If you were not seeing how she would fit into this role, think back to what you were thinking... the $30,000 US dollars question is... what were you thinking when dating? What did you do on your dates if you did not share activities such as cooking together, discussing problems together? I am not trying to invade the more private aspects of a marriage. Obviously that part's fine or you would have mentioned it at least in passing.

You have both have a lot of opportunities here. This is an unusual situation as most people make sure the person they are going to marry would at least have the basics of a relationship down before they walked down that isle.

I knew one guy that liked a passive woman because he wanted a wife he could sort of "train" as his life partner without having to have to undo other people's bad habbits. He was a controlling man and proud of it. He married several times until he realized this. When he deployed to Korea, he was in heaven... he is still married to his third wife of 24 years because she was passive, eager to please, but he actually had to step by step train her in a lot of the things he liked... from the way to successful comforting, to cooking...he even had his mom teach her all his favorite dishes. And you know what? It worked! It worked because she was trained by her family and culture at the time because she was "trained to be trained" in marriage. As an unexpected result, they are always together...she even runs his eye clinic. Never see 'em apart. They have an unusually close relationship. By the way, when he trained her, he was very gentle and loving and used his incredible sense of humor in doing so...this resulted in not a tear from her eye unless... well, they actually came up with a sort of marriage motto for themselves... "when one of us cries, the other tastes salt". But you know, it's their own unique style. Not saying you are controlling or anything but just an example of how they worked it out.

I think Vickie's idea about marriage counseling is a good one...even if you have to talk to one alone to be able to find the best way to introduce this idea to her...that's what they are there for. When I finally understood your unique position, I had to admit, it's unique. When I get into a serious relationship and we both know we are serious, it seems we both are seeking to know, is this the one.

I know this advise is unusual coming from a lesbian like myself, but relationships are relationships as far as that goes.

I keep picturing you as an engineer of some sort, just the personality in your posts...are you by chance an engineer?

Oh, and BTW, a good place to start working on the marriage is what is working right and going from there...this does not have to be a lost cause...a challenge, but some people like the challenges in life...I know I do.

Looking forward to reading your response.

[Tatyana2009]

I think it would be helpful to remember that marriage is about learning. Learning who your partner is (in a way you did not know when you were dating as marriage does put a new frame on things and new expectations - both yours and hers) and who you are (even for only it being a new situation). It also means learning about relationships, what you like, when to say enough, what things to overlook, what you nurture and what is worth arguing about.

Saying that - you in your baby steps of that learning - in the very beginning (only 5 months married) - so take it easy. Sit back. Relax. Enjoy your bride. You married her because you love her (I am guessing..?) so cherish what you have.

I find that some of us deal differently with things when they are our completely. When there is no chase. When ther is you two forever. It can be scarry. It can be boring. But I think its important to remember your feelings. It is also important to remember that none of us (including you) is perfect. And the fact that your wife married you does not mean she will answer each and every need or expectation you may have. This comes back to relaxing. Just sit back and enjoy what you have and focus on dealing with the changes in your life in a way that benefits you.

I somehow get the feeling that your family is very demanding. I dont know if I am right?? Some times when we are in a serious intimate relationship stuff from our past crop up - it may be useful to look at this.

And one last thing - keeping quiet about things that upset you is not bad if you can truely live and let go. But if you use your silence as punishment or as a 'boiling time' till you explode - NO. You will have to find another way of dealing with this. Sometimes a very simple, practicle solution is just there. For example - if you would like her to cook more - why not set up a romantic evening together and cook together then have a candle light dinner. Or come to an arrangement that you cook 4 days of the week and she cooks 3. In my house - I cook very rarely. My finace does all the cooking and I cook the odd meal. But I do most of the washing up and the laundary and we share other house work. He loves cooking and I love washing up (yes..) so it works. You just need to find your way. Good luck!!