[LonelyBird]

So since last Friday night I have been aware of my wife's emotional affairwith my now ex-best friend. We are starting therapy tonight and I am hoping and praying that the therapist will be neutral and help us both see the communication breakdown we have... but I also kinda hope she will tell my wife that she was wrong and she needs to understand that she hurt me immensely too.

Since Friday my wife will not say I love you to me. She just has "too much going on" in her head. She will talk with me, joke with me, wink at me, make plans for vacation and such with me... but no affection... no I love you too... just silence when I tell her I love her.

Part of me thinks its guilt, part of me thinks she has seen the way I have been trying to just be around her and talk and listen and she's afraid that if she softens I will stop trying... will the therapist tell her that's unhealthy for us? What is going on... she still says she is hopeful we can save our marriage... am I going to have to do all the work for a while???

I am willing, but I am so cold and lonely. If she still loves me (and heck, when I confronted my ex-friend/current jerk said he she still loved me). Is. She grieving over her loss too? That sucks and hurts but it makes sense... wow that hurts even to type.

I forgive her... she hurt me badly here too and I really hope the therapist can help her see she had a part to play in the breakdown too... but that she has a lot to make up for with what she did too. I need her to see that the cold shoulder is not what is motivating me... its my love for her... and she is killing me slowly right now.

Well... I can't sleep again... my bed is cold and lonely... might as well get an early start on the morning. Sigh.

[lido78]

I assume that your therapist will encourage you to express how much your wife hurt you and may go so far as to express how much emotional affairs are the same as physical ones and how hurtful they are, but I don't know that the therapist will come right out and say that your wife was wrong. Be prepared for the therapist to cover why your wife engaged in the affair to begin with...and this could, of course, bring up issues that your wife may have with you. I think it all depends on the therapist on how far he/she will go in offering up any kind of personal opinion.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this...It may be that she's not offering up "I love you" because she doesn't want to just say it out of habit. Her reasons for starting the affair may just mean that she's not ready....the fact that she started an affair with your ex-best friend may mean that she initially turned to him to discuss issues in your marriage...maybe just to get his perspective as your friend. This is dangerous ground, and I've seen this kind of thing often turn into an affair...emotional or otherwise.

The affair may be over and she's open to therapy and working on the marriage, but I'm wondering if she's angry over something....(please don't take this to mean that she had any right to have an affair...I'm just trying to see her possible side of things in an attempt to understand her behaviour).

[lido78]

I just read one of your prior posts...in it, you indicate that your wife said she loves you but is not "in love" with you. I expect this is the real reason she's not saying it to you...

I'm hopeful that the "in love" can be rekindled, but she may think it unfair to say it to you until she really feels it. She probably won't be able to come close to feeling it until you, and she and the therapist get a handle on your depression and address why you never sought help until now, even though she asked you to...

Being around someone with depression issues is very exhausting, and she probably just feels emotionally wrung out and shut down. Honestly, I think that working through your depression in a way that helps her may mean that you have your own therapist for this purpose (in addition to marriage counseling)...She can love you and support you, but you have to fight the depression on your own. She has to see that you are facing that particular beast head on and that she's not responsible for fixing it for you or making you feel better....Being around someone with depression can be extremely stressful because you feel as if you are failing your partner...that you can't make them happy...maybe take the pressure off of her by not expecting her to say "I love you" back....Just show her you love her and give her clear space to process her own stuff right now.

[Perna]

I hope your counseling session tonight helps and lives up to some of your expectations.

I would continue to work on myself though, my depression and things I would like for myself instead of for others or from others. Unless we know ourselves, who we are and what we want, we are destined to be knocked about from others "out there". What you feel about your wife's actions is primarily about you, not your wife's actions. I would focus on your own thoughts, feelings, and actions relative to your own life and then see how how things progress with others after I was comfortable controlling that.

Are you in denial? I don't say that in a sarcastic or mean way. I'm really curious. The thing that I see is something that i don't see addressed here. I am all for you both getting counseling for your issues whatever they may be. I don't recall if I've seen your marriage issues posted elsewhere so i can't address them directly but what i will say is that no matter what they were, my thoughts would probably remain the same.

The thing is an affair, whether emotional or physical is a huge blow to your relationship, your self esteem, your trust and so many other things that help to make a relationship strong and fulfilling. Now I am not one to "hold a grudge" against someone, that is what happens when you keep hanging onto hurts beyond a reasonable amount of time after someone's shown regret and attempted to make things up to you. What I am for is holding someone accountable for their actions and at least from waht you've said, it seems like this serious offense to you and your marriage has been kind of glossed over.

Why are you going out of your way to constantly give her attention and tell her "I love you" so much? I'm not saying you should completely withdraw but in my mind this situation is completely backward. WTF is she giving you the cold shoulder? She is the one that should be going out of her friggin way to gain your trust back, and work to repair the marriage too. It seems to me that, and I'm saying this in the nicest way, you're being walked all over. She has wronged you and you're the one going out of your way -- probably out of fear, to gain her back. No matter what your offenses in the marriage, if any, she made the choice to have an emotional affair with another. You're not in the wrong here and although I'm not here to say you need to "punish" her for it, nevertheless I don't think you should be going out of your way to pour on the love. That's like rewarding her for what she did in my mind. I mean I can understand your position. Heck I might, without thinking react the same way and do that too but as an outsider, I can see how this is not good. At the very least it should be mutual and she should be giving to you the love you deserve. If it were one sided, and she were the one going out of her way but you were giving the cold shoulder, it would be more understandable in this situation but again, it all just seems backward.

If she really wants the relationship to work, you should play a little hard to get and back off a little IMO. She's not willing to say she loves you or anything. I'm just saying, be a little cooler about it and don't do it so much. She needs to come after you and show you she's all there for you. If she doesn't, that just says she's really not fully in the marriage with you.

I wish I had a more positive note for you. I'm just being honest.

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

You wrote:

but that she has a lot to make up for with what she did too.

This is my opinion only. I am not a therapist or medical professional or counselor of any type. But I firmly believe that to develop loving close relationships one should throw out: holding grudges, payback, score-keeping and hurt-harboring.

As hard as it is to wrap your emotions around this idea, I think it is key to overcoming what sounds like a significant stumbling block in your marriage:

Your wife should not have to "make up for" anything.

When would the payback ever end? When would you be satisfied? Far better to count what you love about your wife and for her to do the same about you.

When I reflect on the marriage vows: for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health--an affair is a form of sickness in a marriage. Express the ideas you have written here for the marriage counselor to help you work through them. I wish the very best for you and your wife and your marriage.

I disagree. While I agree with this when they've done all they can to reconcile with their spouse after they've had the affair -- that is, if she's already tried to reconcile with him, holding it over her head would be wrong. Very true. Doing this unreasonably is terrible and I've had that done to me so I know where you're coming from. nevertheless when someone has an affair something in the relationship breaks and you do have to hold them accountable. I think that in every case of an affair, if the person that has been the offender is really remorseful, they ought to be going out of their way to make things right. it can't be just let go. It's not that simple.

An affair isn't a sickness either. It's an offense against the spouse. It's not something that was out of her control to do but a conscious choice she made. no one chooses to be sick, sickness implies something that is wrong with the marriage and while that's obviously there also, the affair itself IMO isn't the sickness.

I do understand your view. I know where you're coming from, so no disrespect for that, I just don't come from your perspective. I hope I haven't offended you.

[LonelyBird]

I agree, thank you S4ndm4n. I have zero intention of holding this over her in the future if she is truly sorry about it. If she wants to reconcile and apologize I am ready, willing and able to forgive this. I don't want the tit-for-tat anymore. We've been there, done that and now bear the scars.

What I am saying is that all of this has, truly, caused me to do some self assessment and reflection. I don't believe any of this occured in a vacuum. She and I were both responsible for the collapse of communication in our marriage. I have taken stock of myself and realized what things I need to change if she wants to restore this marriage. My main point was that I hope she does the same... I cannot shoulder 100% of the blame for this and, as my therapist said Monday, my infractions cannot justify or excuse her breaking the vows of our marriage. You are probably right... while not in denial I am allowing myself to be a doormat right now. Hopefully the therapist can help me explain this to her as well.

I am not looking to assign blame (heaven knows there is more than enough for both of us to shoulder for the state of our marriage)... I just want her to understand she is not without her own faults in what occured. Maybe I do need to back off a bit... perhaps I should just go to bed and let her think instead of trying to act like nothing happened. When she wants to talk... I will be there ready and willing.

I really appreciate your insight and perspective. Thank you!

You're very welcome. I am glad I didnt offend.

By no means did I want to imply that for the breakdown of the marriage that she bear the entire burden. I am one that's been around the block with marriage and knows that it takes two to make it either work or fall apart in both cases.

And indeed I was afraid that this would pass without her ever even facing that she is accountable for any of it - especially the affair. I see far too many cases where people say "if you only loved her more she/he wouldn't have cheated" and I was afraid that was how you felt.

Glad to hear more clearly what you're thinking and I am glad you understood me.

I wish you much luck in this and if you need a friend to lean on and talk to I'm here.

~S4

[LonelyBird]

So the therapist definitely sided with her a lot... but there was some postive steps. We laughed a bit on the way home... and then she went out to the bar with her girlfriend until well after midnight. I think she needed a womans perspective on everything... but dang was it lonely last night here.

[Mxchick]

I believe the reason she is acting that way is guilt!! She knows she messed up and her head is spinning on what to do next or what your gonna do next! She messed up end if I were you I'd end it, that is the lowest of blows. I feel your pain I've been cheated on many times but if you let it slide It will continue. Don't be the weak one, trust me. Be strong!!!!!! Do it for you.

[hamster-bamster]

"She will talk with me, joke with me, wink at me, make plans for vacation "

that is great. Keep building on it. Your situation is much better than I though it is if your wife would do all those wonderful things. especially winking at you! How cool is that!!

Where do you intend to go for your vacation together, may I ask?

[hamster-bamster]

Also, your thread's title is incorrect - if she jokes with you, it is not silent treatment.

[LonelyBird]

That' the "sorta" part... she will do those things... and then suddenly whammo... nothing. At the therapist she said I am her best friend but she feels like she hasn't been in love with me for awhile. The therapist asked if she was acting this way because she didn't think I was going to change and she said yes... but if she won't even let me in...

I get weird statements like that she's hopeful we can save this and that she knows it'll take time... but I really feel hopeless.

I mean, I want to change those negative aspects of our relationship, but if she can't even respond a little bit... ugh I am so dang confused right now. She was sick yesterday so we said about 5 words to eachother. I took the kids so she could sleep, got her crackers and ginger ale and left them on a tray next to her... gave her some space and didn't needle or try to talk to her so she could rest... I am trying to show her how much I care in little ways... but I don't know if they are even appreciated.

I don't just want to be best friends... I was to be a happily married couple. I really wish I could crawl inside her head and figure out what she is thinking. I just need to know there is hope ahead. If I had some glimmer of hope then I would be capable of handling this much better.

[RomanSunburn]

I think the fact that you are both in counseling means there is hope. If all she wanted was out, she wouldn't bother with it.

Also, I like to think the marriage counselor doesn't really take sides... Having never been to one, that might just be wishful thinking. But for all you know, your wife could be having the same thoughts that the therapist sided with you. It's all about perspective.

I do agree with who ever said it first, you should probably look into therapy for yourself to work on your depression. That's your own issue that can't be solved in marriage counseling. I also agree that you shouldn't be quite so submissive to her since she is the one that strayed. Don't get me wrong, she's not completely to blame, I understand that. But at the same time, like sandman said, don't let yourself be a doormat.

And honestly? Even if your marriage doesn't work out (here's hoping it will, though!) you will come through this stronger and healthier simply by focusing on yourself and getting yourself better. I think that's all your wife really wanted... was for you to take care of yourself. Because if you don't take care of yourself, you really can't take care of anyone else either.

Good luck. We're all rooting for you!

[hamster-bamster]

It must be hard for her to be sick and yet deal with your silent, unspoken expectation of appreciation. A sick person probably needs just crackers and ginger ale, without strings attached. A moment of unconditional love. I imagine... being sick she sort of becomes your child for a moment and you, the parent. What do the best parents do, in the ideal world? Give unconditional love.

I think you also have unreasonably high expectations of the rate or speed of change in general. Do you expect a new antidepressant to immediately restore you? Probably not. Likewise here... change accrues over time. You just need to see that the direction of the change is right. She is attending T rather than filing for separation and she has not stopped being your best friend. So the direction is right.

And did I miss your telling us where you guys will go for your vacation?

Another thing... besides depression, there seems to be anxiety present. Do you feel it?

I disagree with Mx in that I don't recommend ending any relationship where both parties are at least trying to mend things. Always go that route when you can. I believe in keeping things together at all costs if it is possible.

I'm rooting for you!
~S4

[hamster-bamster]

I have thought more about it and I recommend two therapies for you: CBT and mindfulness. I do not have enough patience for those myself, but I have heard good things about them from others.

Why?

CBT to reframe your thoughts and stay away in particular from catastrophizing. I reread your post in response to mine and you did not answer my question about the vacation plans. But you talked about all sorts of negative stuff, your frustrations and disappointments and what not. So you selectively talk about negative stuff and disregard the positive. If you can change that, that would be great for everyone involved. You would be much more fun to be with and you would be a happier person yourself. Right?

Mindfulness to stay in the moment and enjoy that you freaking have someone to give crackers and ginger ale to!

And for chris sake stop demanding that she be in love with you 24/7. During more than 99% of the history of monogamous marriage partners were not required to be in love with one another 24/7. Work towards common goals, yes, but not in love with each other. It is a modern expectation. And even the modern marriage vows do not require that. I do not remember them verbatim because when I last said yes to them in a rather casual manner in Las Vegas in 1997, I was not paying much attention, but I am absolutely positive that they did not contain anything about being in love 24/7, and I have a good memory. Maybe something about sticking around in sickness and death or something like that. Are you sick? yes, you have depression and that is a sickness. Is she sticking around? She is - she is even planning a vacation together. So no problems on her end of the bargain. Leave her alone. Don't be annoying. I would think that if you do not say out loud that you want her to say "I love you" but silently expect it, it is still annoying. And needy.

You prognosis in terms of the relationship is very good. If she still your friend and even your best friend and the only thing that is not exactly up to specs as they are in your mind is lack of expressions of love, then, in the worst case scenario, you would separate without animosity on amicable terms and would partner together as co-parents for the rest of your lives. I really envy your situation. My ex husband turned my daughters against me and I need to pay a lawyer to communicate to my ex husband as follows:

"She also wants to be able to clean the refrigerator which contains food that you have left. You are welcome to come pick up your food next week on any weekday between noon and the time you pick up the kids.

Also, please inform my client of your tax filing status for the 2012 tax year so that my client may make proper arrangements.

Thank you."

You certainly would never face my challenges if your wife is being so very nice with you now. My ex husband, from time to time, threatens a restraining order (without cause). Someone on this board suggested to ME that I file a restraining order against him. Fun, no? Has your wife ever threatened a restraining order against you? I bet she does not even know what a restraining order is! So nothing catastrophic would happen even in the case of divorce AND she is not even talking about divorce! I was just showing to you that even the worst case scenario is pretty decent for you. But I believe that you need therapy to see and appreciate it.

[LonelyBird]

Hamster, my apologies. I know that, comparatively speaking, my situation is not anywhere near your level... and I am certainly seeking therapy for the reasons you listed above. I do often catastrophise things and suffer from anxiety (but apparently not straight up depression). My psychologist had my doctor start me on Lexapro this week for the anxiety. I am working on mindfulness as well.

For me, the past week has been a roller coaster and I was very emotionally torn up. It is very difficult to hear the person you love say they may be no longer in love with you. I am gaining perspective and strength with each day and hoping that I can rebuild with my wife... it doesn't change the fact that right now, in my position, this is a horrible feeling and situation.

I feel horrible to hear your situation and can understand why you think I am being completely foolish. From your position I am sitting pretty. I am very sorry to hear what your husband had put you through and can't even comprehend how someone could do that. You have my sympathies for certain.

Hopefully my wife and I can reconcile. I don't want her to say she loves me every 5 minutes... but I do want her to be in love with me because I am still in love with her.

And, just to answer your other question, we are looking at either OBX or Myrtle Beach. Hopefully at the end of August... and maybe by then I will be able to share positives both in my therapy/treatment and my marriage.

[hamster-bamster]

Thank you for your sympathy!

I was also going to offer you a perspective on randomness. Four years ago I was saved from a suicide attempt and I think I was meant to survive. But someone else here thinks it was a random event. So you can give events a special meaning or attribute them to chance.

It is good that you do not assign blame to yourself for your wifes emotional aattachment to someone else, which she ended. But do not assign much blame to her either. It may have been fairly random and opportunistic as in coincidental and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because she never advertised herself online beforehand as someone looking for an affair, did she?

[LonelyBird]

No, she did not. She worked hard to take care of the kids all week that on Friday nights I told her she could go out with my friends to get a drink and unwind. We were all great friends who had all started our families together. I thought she deserved a night out each week with adults to unwind and have fun. That's how it happened.

[hamster-bamster]

That was very kind and caring of you to arrange for her to have a regular adult night out and a break from the kids. I hope that one day she would look back at that time and appreciate you.