[Werewoman]

First let me say it is not my intention to offend anyone and if that happens, I apologize in advance. My only motivation here is to understand better the woman who raised me, who has Borderline Personality Disorder. In spite of everything, I do not hate her and I still respect her. I just can't talk to her anymore.

I want to describe my experience with my mother from my point of view in the hope that others can help me understand better what SHE was feeling because from my perspective, I've always thought everything she did was deliberate, and now I'm exploring the possibility (working towards probability) that she may not know or remember what she did. I am really struggling with this and if that's the case, then I have to re-think everything I ever believed about her, but I need help and my therapist thought it would be a good idea if I shared my thoughts here.

I am 52 years old. I have encouraged my mother to get treatment, but she won't have anything to do with it. I'm wondering if the reason she refuses to even discuss the possibility of getting treatment is because she doesn't know or remember what happened. OMG am I struggling with that thought!!

I've been terrified of her since I can remember because while she has her good days, she can be suddenly volatile and violent without warning or from my perspective, reason. I've often described her as being like a tornado. She tears through life and like a tornado, never bothers to look behind her to see the destruction she has done.

By the time I was 40 or so, things got so bad, I felt I had no choice but to end my relationship with her for my own protection. After 7 years of no communication, I tried again to have a mother-daughter relationship with her, but in the end, I walked away again because all I could see happening was that she was sucking me back in again. I found myself yet again doing and saying whatever she wanted to hear to appease her. I always did that as a kid and young adult because I was literally afraid that she would kill me if I didn't. Whether that was rational or not, I don't know. It's definitely what I believed at the time.

It's been 3 years since I last had any contact with her. I went back into therapy a few months ago. At the time, I said I just wanted to get the woman (mom) out of my head. Now I'm re-thinking everything. I'm wondering why it is that I have the protective instincts of a she-bear when it comes to protecting my children and grandchild from her if necessary, but I can't do it for myself. That leads to the thought that if she doesn't know or remember hurting me, and I can't protect myself - for whatever reason I'm still working on with my T - does that make her even more dangerous?

I'll stop for now...

Your mother knows exactly how she acts. She remembers and knows about the violence she put you through but seeing that she refuse treatment, she probably believes there is nothing wrong with how she is acting. I think you should cut off ties with her. She damaged you. You probably have low self-esteem (like she made you feel worthless from her verbal abuse). You've became very protective of your children and grandchildren because you do not want them to experience the hurt that your mother out you through. You don't have enough confidence to act on protecting yourself.

I understand how you feel 100%. I may only be 22 but my dad has Bipolar I and unlike you, I have hatred in my heart. He knows the evil things he does but the anger overflows and he doesn't get treatment either nor does he ever apologize. Such a nasty person.

You're so kind to not push her away but I think that would be the best thing to do. Having to deal with her is only holding you back from your own happiness. You need to be free. Let her be her. She'll have to pay for her wrongdoing. But like I said, she knows and remembers everything but during her angry times she is completely heartless and uncaring. On the good days, she probably just pushes it aside like "oh I didn't do that" even though she knows she behaves like she does.

I hope I helped in some way. Please let me know. I really feel for you.

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by Werewoman

First let me say it is not my intention to offend anyone and if that happens, I apologize in advance. My only motivation here is to understand better the woman who raised me, who has Borderline Personality Disorder. In spite of everything, I do not hate her and I still respect her. I just can't talk to her anymore.

I want to describe my experience with my mother from my point of view in the hope that others can help me understand better what SHE was feeling because from my perspective, I've always thought everything she did was deliberate, and now I'm exploring the possibility (working towards probability) that she may not know or remember what she did. I am really struggling with this and if that's the case, then I have to re-think everything I ever believed about her, but I need help and my therapist thought it would be a good idea if I shared my thoughts here.

I am 52 years old. I have encouraged my mother to get treatment, but she won't have anything to do with it. I'm wondering if the reason she refuses to even discuss the possibility of getting treatment is because she doesn't know or remember what happened. OMG am I struggling with that thought!!

I've been terrified of her since I can remember because while she has her good days, she can be suddenly volatile and violent without warning or from my perspective, reason. I've often described her as being like a tornado. She tears through life and like a tornado, never bothers to look behind her to see the destruction she has done.

By the time I was 40 or so, things got so bad, I felt I had no choice but to end my relationship with her for my own protection. After 7 years of no communication, I tried again to have a mother-daughter relationship with her, but in the end, I walked away again because all I could see happening was that she was sucking me back in again. I found myself yet again doing and saying whatever she wanted to hear to appease her. I always did that as a kid and young adult because I was literally afraid that she would kill me if I didn't. Whether that was rational or not, I don't know. It's definitely what I believed at the time.

It's been 3 years since I last had any contact with her. I went back into therapy a few months ago. At the time, I said I just wanted to get the woman (mom) out of my head. Now I'm re-thinking everything. I'm wondering why it is that I have the protective instincts of a she-bear when it comes to protecting my children and grandchild from her if necessary, but I can't do it for myself. That leads to the thought that if she doesn't know or remember hurting me, and I can't protect myself - for whatever reason I'm still working on with my T - does that make her even more dangerous?

I'll stop for now...

Okay...first I am dx BPD, I am a mother of two fantastic kids, and I have been this way for as long as I can remember....but NOT A DAY goes by that I don't feel shame, saddness, and humiliation for some of the things I've done. I have done FAR more damage to myself, than anyone around me---not to negate the things I did do, but they were nothing like you are saying about your mother.

People with BPD don't 'just not care', not feel, or pretend it never happened.......if anything we FEEL TOO MUCH and NEVER forget anything...we will be okay with something and then 2 days later it comes back up to hurt us all over again. There are rapid cyclers (I'm one, and experience the whole cornucopia of emotions hourly) and others who may have days of being 'okay' or depressed, or manic (our version of happy) just before we crash again. This happens for most of us, all day long.

BPD's have been called manipulative but this is a shallow exercise in what we really are because we don't set out to manipulate anyone. If we are hurt, by a slight that most non's would find understandable, we may panic--certain the person who has hurt us will leave us--then we crash and burn...to some nons that is manipulative because their reaction (for the most part, until they get sick of us) is to support, nurture...ensure and endure our perceived tantrums and tears. But we all KNOW they will eventually get sick of us. Everyone does, you see. There are so many relationships we lost just because we held on too much, clung like pathetic burrs on the ankles of those we loved so passionately and were terrified of losing. We are our own worst enemy. But we love intensely, we hurt intensely, and we don't butcher souls...other than perhaps our own.

What you describe sounds much more like either a narcissist or someone with anti-social personality disorder. Both are experts at manipulation, hurt without looking back at 'wreckage', care little if you are in their lives or not, and are perfectly willing to 'suck you back in' at a moments opportunity.

So while I totally understand your question...I wonder if the diagnosis of your mother is correct. Because from what I know (and I'm 55 this year, and had a NPD mother), this is NOT the actions of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder.

To get a great idea of what we go thru every day, check out the thread 'you know you're BPD when...' ---the posts are funny and tragic as well. We know very well there is something not right about us. NPD's refuse to admit it, cause they don't see it...it's just the way they are. ASPD's same, for different reasons.

I hope this helps, and I"m sorry to hear about how much pain your mother put your thru growing up. If she is really what I think she is, I can relate completely.

Take care

Personally I have decided I won't be having children. I am absolutely terrified of the damage I could do.

From my own experience when I am upset my emotions take over and I stop thinking. Nothing else matters I simply react. Those reactions aren't always good or easy on the person receiving them.

It's not until later, when I've calmed down that I kinda sit there and go; "OMG! I am a terrible person! Why would I do that?!" and promptly fall to beating myself up over it. Of course by that time the damage to the other person is already done.

The fact that my emotions are so easily triggered doesn't help either. The slightest perceived (and often it is just perceived.) issue can cause a full blown meltdown.

I don't tend to dissociate which is what I think you were leaning towards for your mother so I can't comment there but I understand many people have no memories of what happened during such states.

As far as not seeking treatment many BPD's are simply in denial. Being diagnosed with a serious mental illness is tough. No one wants to admit to that level of brokenness especially not one as stigmatized and looked down on as BPD.

I think it is good you don't hate her. Hate is often a barrier in your own healing.

I also think you are entirely right in cutting her from your life. You do not have to have someone in your life for any reason certainly not someone who is unhealthy and unwilling to get healthy.

I think I can understand why you have such trouble removing her from your own life. She's your mother, you feel some sort of loyalty to look out for her despite everything. After all she is broken...It's not really her fault? Right? (That is a phrase I often repeat to myself over my own parents I'm guessing you've felt similar.)

In the end though that doesn't matter. It is her responsibility to get better.

Even though you may feel this loyalty for yourself you know that isn't an actuality for your family and so you are better able to separate them and their safety.

People often seem to protect others better than they do themselves.

Originally Posted by Werewoman

First let me say it is not my intention to offend anyone and if that happens, I apologize in advance. My only motivation here is to understand better the woman who raised me, who has Borderline Personality Disorder. In spite of everything, I do not hate her and I still respect her. I just can't talk to her anymore.

I want to describe my experience with my mother from my point of view in the hope that others can help me understand better what SHE was feeling because from my perspective, I've always thought everything she did was deliberate, and now I'm exploring the possibility (working towards probability) that she may not know or remember what she did. I am really struggling with this and if that's the case, then I have to re-think everything I ever believed about her, but I need help and my therapist thought it would be a good idea if I shared my thoughts here.

I am 52 years old. I have encouraged my mother to get treatment, but she won't have anything to do with it. I'm wondering if the reason she refuses to even discuss the possibility of getting treatment is because she doesn't know or remember what happened. OMG am I struggling with that thought!!

I've been terrified of her since I can remember because while she has her good days, she can be suddenly volatile and violent without warning or from my perspective, reason. I've often described her as being like a tornado. She tears through life and like a tornado, never bothers to look behind her to see the destruction she has done.

By the time I was 40 or so, things got so bad, I felt I had no choice but to end my relationship with her for my own protection. After 7 years of no communication, I tried again to have a mother-daughter relationship with her, but in the end, I walked away again because all I could see happening was that she was sucking me back in again. I found myself yet again doing and saying whatever she wanted to hear to appease her. I always did that as a kid and young adult because I was literally afraid that she would kill me if I didn't. Whether that was rational or not, I don't know. It's definitely what I believed at the time.

It's been 3 years since I last had any contact with her. I went back into therapy a few months ago. At the time, I said I just wanted to get the woman (mom) out of my head. Now I'm re-thinking everything. I'm wondering why it is that I have the protective instincts of a she-bear when it comes to protecting my children and grandchild from her if necessary, but I can't do it for myself. That leads to the thought that if she doesn't know or remember hurting me, and I can't protect myself - for whatever reason I'm still working on with my T - does that make her even more dangerous?

I'll stop for now...

Ummm I'm having a hard time finding what your questions are in this post. I understand it's a hard situation and I'm sorry for that but I see the situation you've been through and what you've done to remedy it but don't see a question?

What is it you need advice on?

Seems to me she's proven to be abusive and hurtful to you time and again and if your question is whether to give her another chance, i am one to believe that it's best to give people as many chances that it takes but at some point, if they prove that there is no change, walk away again. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a blood relative, close friend or otherwise. All those ties mean nothing if the relationship is toxic and or abusive.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by SweetTragic

Your mother knows exactly how she acts. She remembers and knows about the violence she put you through but seeing that she refuse treatment, she probably believes there is nothing wrong with how she is acting. I think you should cut off ties with her. She damaged you. You probably have low self-esteem (like she made you feel worthless from her verbal abuse). You've became very protective of your children and grandchildren because you do not want them to experience the hurt that your mother out you through. You don't have enough confidence to act on protecting yourself.

I understand how you feel 100%. I may only be 22 but my dad has Bipolar I and unlike you, I have hatred in my heart. He knows the evil things he does but the anger overflows and he doesn't get treatment either nor does he ever apologize. Such a nasty person.

You're so kind to not push her away but I think that would be the best thing to do. Having to deal with her is only holding you back from your own happiness. You need to be free. Let her be her. She'll have to pay for her wrongdoing. But like I said, she knows and remembers everything but during her angry times she is completely heartless and uncaring. On the good days, she probably just pushes it aside like "oh I didn't do that" even though she knows she behaves like she does.

I hope I helped in some way. Please let me know. I really feel for you.

"It's been 3 years since I last had any contact with her" - I have pushed her away but I still hold out hope that something inside her will change. As damaged as the little girl inside me still is, she still wants her mommy back. The adult me protects that little girl by keeper mommy away.

I have always felt, as you do, that she knows how she behaves and knows the hurt she causes, but lives in denial.

Of course you've been helpful. The purpose behind starting this thread was to get all kinds of input, both positive and negative. You're being very honest and truth is what I need, regardless of where it leads, I know it helps me heal.

Thank you Sweet Tragic.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by waiting4

People with BPD don't 'just not care', not feel, or pretend it never happened.......if anything we FEEL TOO MUCH and NEVER forget anything...we will be okay with something and then 2 days later it comes back up to hurt us all over again. There are rapid cyclers (I'm one, and experience the whole cornucopia of emotions hourly) and others who may have days of being 'okay' or depressed, or manic (our version of happy) just before we crash again. This happens for most of us, all day long.

BPD's have been called manipulative but this is a shallow exercise in what we really are because we don't set out to manipulate anyone. If we are hurt, by a slight that most non's would find understandable, we may panic--certain the person who has hurt us will leave us--then we crash and burn...to some nons that is manipulative because their reaction (for the most part, until they get sick of us) is to support, nurture...ensure and endure our perceived tantrums and tears. But we all KNOW they will eventually get sick of us. Everyone does, you see. There are so many relationships we lost just because we held on too much, clung like pathetic burrs on the ankles of those we loved so passionately and were terrified of losing. We are our own worst enemy. But we love intensely, we hurt intensely, and we don't butcher souls...other than perhaps our own.

What you describe sounds much more like either a narcissist or someone with anti-social personality disorder. Both are experts at manipulation, hurt without looking back at 'wreckage', care little if you are in their lives or not, and are perfectly willing to 'suck you back in' at a moments opportunity.

So while I totally understand your question...I wonder if the diagnosis of your mother is correct. Because from what I know (and I'm 55 this year, and had a NPD mother), this is NOT the actions of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder.

I hope this helps, and I"m sorry to hear about how much pain your mother put your thru growing up. If she is really what I think she is, I can relate completely.

Take care

Your assessment could be spot on. I have tried several times to get her to seek treatment (in writing - I'm too terrified of her to discuss it face to face) and she responds by telling people how her 'crazy' daughter thinks she's the one who needs help. Either that, or she simply ignores it all together.

10 years ago when I first went into therapy, a couple of sessions into it, my therapist handed me a book called "Understanding the Borderline Mother". The descriptions of the 'fairy tale' types were so uncomfortably familiar, especially the witch, and to some extent, the queen. For the first time I felt validated and had a word for a pattern of behaviour I had been struggling to understand my whole life.

Since there has never been a formal diagnosis of BPD, I am certainly willing to consider other possibilities. That being said, I have had extensive sessions with two therapists and three psychiatrists (not all at once, obviously) who all told me she probably had BPD, so that's what I went with since I can't ask her ANYTHING without her going off on me.

Thank you so much for your input waiting4.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by BeteNoire

Personally I have decided I won't be having children. I am absolutely terrified of the damage I could do.

From my own experience when I am upset my emotions take over and I stop thinking. Nothing else matters I simply react. Those reactions aren't always good or easy on the person receiving them.

It's not until later, when I've calmed down that I kinda sit there and go; "OMG! I am a terrible person! Why would I do that?!" and promptly fall to beating myself up over it. Of course by that time the damage to the other person is already done.

The fact that my emotions are so easily triggered doesn't help either. The slightest perceived (and often it is just perceived.) issue can cause a full blown meltdown.

I don't tend to dissociate which is what I think you were leaning towards for your mother so I can't comment there but I understand many people have no memories of what happened during such states.

As far as not seeking treatment many BPD's are simply in denial. Being diagnosed with a serious mental illness is tough. No one wants to admit to that level of brokenness especially not one as stigmatized and looked down on as BPD.

I think it is good you don't hate her. Hate is often a barrier in your own healing.

I also think you are entirely right in cutting her from your life. You do not have to have someone in your life for any reason certainly not someone who is unhealthy and unwilling to get healthy.

I think I can understand why you have such trouble removing her from your own life. She's your mother, you feel some sort of loyalty to look out for her despite everything. After all she is broken...It's not really her fault? Right? (That is a phrase I often repeat to myself over my own parents I'm guessing you've felt similar.)

In the end though that doesn't matter. It is her responsibility to get better.

Even though you may feel this loyalty for yourself you know that isn't an actuality for your family and so you are better able to separate them and their safety.

People often seem to protect others better than they do themselves.

Yes, she is broken, and I know it's not her fault but she is responsible for the choices she makes in how she deals with it. Sadly, that is the part that truly breaks my heart, that she chooses to pretend nothing is wrong.

Thanks BeteNoire.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

Ummm I'm having a hard time finding what your questions are in this post. I understand it's a hard situation and I'm sorry for that but I see the situation you've been through and what you've done to remedy it but don't see a question?

What is it you need advice on?

Seems to me she's proven to be abusive and hurtful to you time and again and if your question is whether to give her another chance, i am one to believe that it's best to give people as many chances that it takes but at some point, if they prove that there is no change, walk away again. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a blood relative, close friend or otherwise. All those ties mean nothing if the relationship is toxic and or abusive.

The questions being asked here, "Is there anyone willing to offer input or advice who can speak from experience as a mother diagnosed with BPD." and "Is it possible that one with this diagnosis not know or remember their abusive behavior?"

I think the real purpose of this exercise (and thread) is working my way toward accepting things for the way they are. The reason that's such a struggle for me, as I think it is for most people, is acceptance is usually the final stage in the process of healing, and also the most difficult and painful for some - at least it is for me.

Thanks.

[shezbut]

Hello Werewoman,

Your mother's behavior sounds very narcissistic to me as well. I have BPD myself, and I have always been my worst critic. I am hypersensitive. Sometimes, I overreact to things, but I always go back to critique myself.

I have 2 daughters myself, whom I try my hardest to support and encourage them to be healthy girls. My mother has a strong streak of narcissism as well, so my family history is pretty tough to use as a teaching resource. More like: what NOT to do with my girls.

My point is that I strongly disagree with your mom having BPD. Her behavior sounds much more like narcissism to me. For example, my mom often guilts people into doing what she wants. If one stands up for oneself with her, she instantly attacks and says all kinds of hurtful things to get the person to give in and do what she wants. There are never any apologies. Never any excuses or admitting to be wrong. Only accusations, arguments, cold shoulder, etc. In her mind, she's never done anything wrong. Everyone else is evil, stupid, wrong, or sick. My mom has never apologized for things that she has done....and she never will. I know that.

To protect myself, I have stepped back completely from my family. That is what I needed to do for me. I don't like it. It makes me sad, especially when others talk about their family events. But, I've learned over the years that I am a lot healthier without getting involved in their lives. My girls don't have the large family experiences that I had as a child (which is sad, yes), BUT, the atmosphere is healthy now. That is the important part to me. Healthy and emotionally safe events are certainly worth the size ~ we could say that it's more intimate. And that's nice.

I hope that this helps you in some way. As you can see, my BPD is almost completely taken out upon myself. I don't want to hurt others the ways that I've been hurt. Those are huge parts of "me".

Best wishes to you and your family!

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by Werewoman

Your assessment could be spot on. I have tried several times to get her to seek treatment (in writing - I'm too terrified of her to discuss it face to face) and she responds by telling people how her 'crazy' daughter thinks she's the one who needs help. Either that, or she simply ignores it all together.

10 years ago when I first went into therapy, a couple of sessions into it, my therapist handed me a book called "Understanding the Borderline Mother". The descriptions of the 'fairy tale' types were so uncomfortably familiar, especially the witch, and to some extent, the queen. For the first time I felt validated and had a word for a pattern of behaviour I had been struggling to understand my whole life.

Since there has never been a formal diagnosis of BPD, I am certainly willing to consider other possibilities. That being said, I have had extensive sessions with two therapists and three psychiatrists (not all at once, obviously) who all told me she probably had BPD, so that's what I went with since I can't ask her ANYTHING without her going off on me.

Thank you so much for your input waiting4.

The only problem with that is, just as most if not all personality disorders cannot be diagnosed properly before the age of 18... unless those therapists and / or pdocs actually examined your mother themselves...the 'probably' diagnosis means squat. The few instances you offered regarding living with your mother, and other interactions with her, mirror mine and my mother was diagnosed NPD (of course in her day it had a much more convoluted name). In fact, when my parents divorced her pdoc (who my fathers lawyer forced her to see) wanted to recommend she NOT get custody, however because it was her doctor, she refused him permission to offer any opinion to the court. My father folded anyway, as he usually did around her. As I've said, he was a good man but utterly terrified of her. BTW, how did I know that? My mother told my brother and myself. Gleefully.

In any case, your mother is toxic to your mental health and you're better off without her, IMO.

Take care

[JadeAmethyst]

I would offer that people who grow up, generation to generation pass on what they have live with and through. It doesn't matter what label, diagnosis I have put to it. Each generation passes learned, unlearned, and environmental traits, character, values on and on and on....

The 'whys' don't matter as much as what and how much we take care of ourselves and that means something relative to each person and family and members in the family.
It's taken me a very long time to have understanding and compassion for myself and then for others: conditioning seems to be a strong teacher.

I can relate to what you are saying about your Mother. I would say that therapy will lead you to do what is best for all concerned including your family and your Mother.
It is never as simple or finite....

regards
Jade

[Trippin2.0]

I'm a borderline mother and your mom sounds nothing like me.

I do my darndest to shield my daughter from my warped mind and over the top reactions, she's a huge reason I started therapy (I'm NOT a fan of the idea) and when it does spill over and affect her?

OMG do I feel aweful, worthless, ashamed, guilty, filled with self-loathing. I admit my wrong doing as soon as I identify it, apologize profusely and do my utmost to make it up to her.

Most of my BPD stuff is internalized, I harm myself and lash out at myself way more than I've ever done to any other humanbeing. But even so, it feels godawful when I do and I spend every sane moment thereafter trying to make it right. To make up for being so frucked up in the head...

I'm sorry you grew up with the mother you described. I'm faaar from perfect, but even I know you deserved wayyyy better.

[Werewoman]

Thank you so much everyone for your responses. All of this has been enormously helpful.

I spent the weekend going back and reading about various personality disorders besides BPD and found that my mother has characteristics of most of them, including several of NPD.

For the record, here is where I got the majority of my information 10 years ago:

There are several different types of Borderline Personality Disorder mothers, as explained by Christine Anne Lawson, Ph.D., in her book “Understanding the Borderline Mother.”
It is understood that those suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder generally fall into two categories: low functioning and high functioning. Low-functioning people with BPD tend to demonstrate more helpless and depressive symptoms that can result in them seeking help.
Those who are high functioning generally do not reveal their symptoms to those outside of the immediate family and are less likely to seek any help at a Borderline Personality Disorder treatment center.
Lawson further breaks down these categories into four types when describing BPD mothers:

High-Functioning BPD Mothers

• The Witch: This type of mother with Borderline Personality Disorder seeks power and control over others, and reacts with rage that is unpredictable. Children and other family members live in fear of triggering her, and find that trying to behave as she wishes is pointless since it is not their behavior that precipitates the rages, but the mother’s own fear of abandonment. It is not likely that the Witch will ever seek BPD treatment or recognize her damaging behaviors. It is not uncommon for their children to develop depression, shame, and insecurity. They may even suffer with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) further along in life.

• The Queen: Queens need to be the center of attention and view others as a means to serve that craving. Children are mere reflections of the mother and must validate and agree with her in order to assure her that she has their respect. Queens can be manipulative and vindictive. They cross boundaries without recognition or regret. Children of Queens are not permitted to have their own needs or opinions, and are not encouraged to become individuals in their own right. Later in life, these children may begin to show signs of BPD themselves. At the very least, they suffer severe self-esteem issues.

When I first read about "The Witch" and "The Queen", I recognized every single characteristic mentioned. This was the point where I felt vindicated because I finally had a name for something I had spent my entire life trying to understand. I am amazed that I didn't develop BPD myself. It was explained to me early on that it's probably because I had a multitude of mitigating factors in my earlier years.

Low-Functioning BPD Mothers

• The Waif: Waifs feel worthless and victimized. They can suffer from depression, anxiety, irrational fears, and feelings of vulnerability. Waifs feel helpless but reject attempts by family members to help them. In this way, they passively control others and are generally unable to nurture others. Children and family members may feel that they can help if only they do more, learn more, and give more. Unfortunately, this can lead to extreme frustration as the Waif continues to stay helpless as a means to control and avoid abandonment. Children may feel angry and alone, even as they are inextricably enmeshed with their mothers. They may develop codependency issues as adults.
• The Hermit: Hermits feel constantly betrayed by others and take criticism as a condemnation of who they are. They are constantly criticizing others to mask their own inner shame. They may socially isolate to quell their own fears and paranoia. Perfectionism is a hallmark of the Hermit, and they can rage or criticize when others fail to meet expectations. Like the Queen and the Witch, Hermits conceal their BPD symptoms from others outside of the family. Children of Hermits can develop their own mistrust and fear of others, as well as deep-seated fears of failure that can prevent them from developing as autonomous individuals, as they fear new situations and people.

My mother is definitely high functioning, no doubt.

My therapist recently had me do an exercize where I had to make dolls (I prefer the word effigies) of me and my mother as I saw us. The first thing I did when I finished making hers was to sew the mouth shut. Making mine was a horrible experience. Mine has no facial features, The left arm is no more than a small flipper (I'm left handed), the right hand is gone, as well as both feet.

I know all the reasons why the effigies came out the way they did, though when I set out to make them, I had no idea they would come out as they did.

What led up to my latest crisis, including starting this thread, was that I was supposed to do to/with the effigies what I wanted to in reality. I couldn't wait to destroy the effigy of my mother. I had all sorts of ideas of all the ways I was going to hurt her. However, when I took it to the storage shed behind the house where I had a multitude of tools/weapons at my disposal, I couldn't do it. My enthusiasm was completely gone and I DID NOT feel good at all about what I had planned to do to this substitute for my mother. I carried it back in the house and put it away where I didn't have to look at it. I'm not capable of hurting her, be it an effigy, or my mother herself. Talk about a major shock to my system! I've fantasized for years about the revenge I thought I wanted.

The effigy of me I dressed in baby clothes I saved from when my children were small. With her, I'm starting over, treating her and nurturing her as she should have been from day one, thus allowing her to grow up in a world full of love, peace, and nurturing. It's very cathartic, and very, very painful.

I think I am getting closer and closer to finally finding acceptance. Maybe. Time will tell.

[Trippin2.0]

I'm really sorry for all you suffered through.

I read through the info you cited and I was like whaaa who wrote that?? None of those are meee... lol

Buut I do know psychiatric info is being updated all the time so maybe that's all the data they had back then.

I will say this though, my pdoc and therapist were both surprized I WANTED help for my BPD... So atleast that part isn't outdated

Again, I'm really sorry for how you've suffered, but I think its good that you found out you can't hurt your mom or any representation of her. It speaks volumes about your character, its really something to be proud of.

I'm pretty sure I would've demolished it in your shoes

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I'm really sorry for all you suffered through.

I read through the info you cited and I was like whaaa who wrote that?? None of those are meee... lol

Buut I do know psychiatric info is being updated all the time so maybe that's all the data they had back then.

I will say this though, my pdoc and therapist were both surprized I WANTED help for my BPD... So atleast that part isn't outdated

Again, I'm really sorry for how you've suffered, but I think its good that you found out you can't hurt your mom or any representation of her. It speaks volumes about your character, its really something to be proud of.

I'm pretty sure I would've demolished it in your shoes

Thank you!

The National Institute of Mental Health is an excellent source of info as well. That's my favorite source now, but I think most of what Ms. Lawson wrote about is still relevant now.

Actually, the best thing I read about this weekend was that FINALLY the mental health community is considering changing the name from "borderline". I mean, come on, it's not a very accurate description to begin with and they've been using it for far too long. I guess even well-educated experts can be a little slow sometimes. lol

[Travelinglady]

If she is borderline, then she might not actually remember some of the things she did. I had BPD and did some things to my children I still stress over. But they tell me some things that I honestly do NOT remember.

At any rate, regardless of whatever diagnosis she has, if you aren't able to function well being around her, then it is best not to be.

I spent years in therapy and went through DBT twice to work through my borderline traits--and now I no longer have the diagnosis. My mom is likely Narcissistic PD with borderline characteristics. I see her now and then, but I have been warned by more than one therapist not to spend a lot of time with her.

[Werewoman]

TravelingLady,

Thank you so much for your honesty. I've been told it's highly unlikely she will ever seek treatment.

The saddest part in all of this is that all I really want from her is for her to say, "I'm sorry". That's all. No dramatic regrets or begging for forgiveness (from either of us - I'm not perfect either -- hard to believe, I know.....*grin*). Just a small acknowledgement of my (our) suffering....

I would love for her to seek treatment, but for her sake, not mine. After 10 years of dealing with this, I've finally reached the point where I think it's time to just accept things for the way they are, stop being so paranoid that she'll hurt someone I love, and deal with it appropriately if and when it happens.

And still my eyes fill with tears at the thought of accepting that none of this will ever change. Ever.

Thanks again everyone for all of your input and support. You have all made this easier for me to deal with this in a healthy way, something that, before I sought help professionally and otherwise, I was incapable of.

I have healed a great deal in the last decade. They say that acceptance is the final step in the grieving process.